Rabo pro 12 first weekend, thoughts....

First topic message reminder :

Well, here we are, the first weekend of the Rabo is over with a few surprise score lines, what are your thoughts after watching this weekends rugby, for me the two surprises for me were the Scarlets tooling Leinster and Munster wining away in Edinburgh, there were hard fought wins for Treviso, Ulster and the Blues and Zebre lived up to their billing with a hiding to nothing, for me although the Ospreys lost, they know they should have won even with 14 men they dominated the game everywhere except where it counts, on the scoreboard, and due to bad handling and bad discipline they could not get the win that perhaps they deserved, Leinster on the other hand should be more worried as the team that lost so significantly to the Scarlets will most likely be the team that they use in the league and they cannot take hidings like that all the time, something tells me they will improve ten fold next week, I am not going to judge the Dragons game until somebody else plays the Zebres as I do not know if it was just a one off poor display or is it a sign of things to come.

The Cardiff Blues have done well to come away from Connacht with a win in very bad conditions and I think they showed some steel that they have been lacking over the years, I did not see much of the Glasgow and Ulster game or the Munster and Edinburgh game to make to much comments but I hope the the Scottish can buck the trend and live up to the promise we all had for them in pre -season, Munster though seem to be going about their business as usual, a lot of people did not give them a chance of a playoff place this season, but I think by going to Edinburgh and winning they have set down a marker for the rest, and will probably be the team to beat in the earlier part of this season. The results are below:-

Connacht 9-13 Cardiff Blues
Edinburgh 18-23 Munster
Scarlets 45-20 Leinster
Newport-Gwent D'gons 37-6 Zebre
Treviso 12-6 Ospreys
Ulster 18-10 Glasgow

gowales wrote:Lunster Lunster Lunster

I can only speak for myself in that I have invested loads in following and supporting Leinster for the last 5 years since I moved home from living in Italy.

When I was younger, I played for Leinster Youths. I am hardly a blow in.
The point that was made is that you lot could do with a few bandwaggoners... Its kind of embarrassing seeing empty stadia in Wales given the rich history you have.

Daffodil Hats or not...

Oh and perhaps with a couple of HEC Trophies in the cabinet, the regions will be better supported, but the old proverb with camels and eye's of needles come to mind

I'm wondering why you even care about Welsh attendences up there in your D4 castle.

Economically deprived Welsh can't afford to go to as many games as rich Dubliners shocker !

And seriuolsy, an Irishman preaching to others about wearing tat and being a sterotype ? Please...

I'll probably never tire of an Irishman mentioning booing kickers.

Alun, you can't use the first game of the season as a stick to beat us with. After the dross they served as at the end of last season, they were lucky to have so many back first game.

But then people who don't attend games have no right to criticise attendances when they don't do their bit either.

I am not from Dublin, although I do live here. Wear what you like as long as you get out there and support your team- that's all I am saying.

And yes, the Irish do like to get dressed up in all kinds of nonsense, but at least you will find 15K + in Ravenhill, TP and RDS 90% of the time...

Oh and my season ticket cost me Eur 280 (plus 50 per game on average for beer)... hardly bank breaking stuff....

I doubt Ulster's avaerage gate is 15k.

And yes, thats a lot of money

I'd say it will be when Ravenhill is redeveloped. It's not far off it now I'd say (90%) of the time.

It's not a lot of money when you consider it's my main for of entertainment. I dont go out every weekend... I prefer to go to the stadium, save my money and travel with Leinster when I can.

For instance, I am going to ASM at xmas to see Clermont Leinster.

Flights - Eur 122
Train - 60
Accomodation - 60

....plus whatever on beer I spend. You'd spend that on a 2 night session in Wales or ireland.

It just depends what your priorities are...

Yeah Boyne, it is embarrassing when I watch Irish rugby and see all those people eating potatoes and drunk on whisky in their velvet green suits and top hats with a clover in their button holes and screaming about their gold and their lucky charms.

Not funny is it. I have been to more rugby matches in Wales than I can remember and although you might see empty seats at the regions, that is mostly because, either the people are supporting Swansea city or Cardiff city, or it might just be the fact that every estate or village in Wales has a rugby team, and they cannot be in two places at once, I bet Newport RFC has about a thousand people watch them each week, also Ebbw Vale draw big crowds as do Cross Keys, all these clubs are in the Dragons region so if you took the two or three thousand who will watch their club play that will always affect the regional side's fan base. It is the same for all the regions, christ even Merthyr get about a few hundred people at a game and they are not even in the premiership. So there in lies the trouble in Wales, rugby is supported more than any other sport, the trouble is there are just so many clubs to support, but when Wales play all the fans come together to support their national side and this is what you are all whitnessing.

The average person in Wales cannot aford to spend nearly £200 on a weekend session.

Plus the Irish Provinces are ACTUAL clubs with a heritage and support base.

Our 'regions' are 10 years old.

France didn't win anything in the 5/6 Nations for absolutely ages and look at them now.

munkian wrote:The average person in Wales cannot aford to spend nearly £200 on a weekend session.

Plus the Irish Provinces are ACTUAL clubs with a heritage and support base.

Our 'regions' are 10 years old.

France didn't win anything in the 5/6 Nations for absolutely ages and look at them now.

For the most in and around the valleys £200 is the weekly wage, they need that money to survive not to go and watch rugby, that is what priorities are.

munkian wrote:I doubt Ulster's avaerage gate is 15k.

And yes, thats a lot of money

Ravenhill's capacity is just over 12k.

It wil be just over 18k for the start of the 2014-15 season with the possibility of being expanded further to 26k (by filling in the corners) in the future if deemed worthwhile.

geoff998rugby wrote:

munkian wrote:I doubt Ulster's avaerage gate is 15k.

And yes, thats a lot of money

Ravenhill's capacity is just over 12k.

It wil be just over 18k for the start of the 2014-15 season with the possibility of being expanded further to 26k (by filling in the corners) in the future if deemed worthwhile.

Good stuff !

Meanwhile it has to be said that Ravenhill has shown a marked decline in average attendance over the past 4-5 years. However last season's HEC should boost last year's average Rabo attendance of 7,454.
http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=394&statType=home_Att

7,454??

Is that all?

Normally I go to Rabo games an you hear 5k this an 6k that and everyone sighs, are you telling me last season that the empty stadia of the Blues an O's were better supported than the beloved Ravenhill?

And the Scarlets according to the figures, blue.

I know but the Scarlets don't tend to get the abuse off the media that the Blues and O's do!

The tin shed that is now gladly Blues rugby history was awfull, but it puts it into perspective because it generally had the 4/5th best attendance in the league!

You watch 7k people turn out on friday at the arms park and everyone will be raving about a packed stadium, being home etc...

What are the tenacy/ownership arrangements at CAP now, blue? It was a sad day when the Blues buggered off to CCS, CAP is synonymous with Welsh rugby.

Basically Portnoy the Pieman owns everything in one way or another, through different names but he has a hand in it all.

The Blues will pay rent (to their own owner through a different company) and will pay for all sorts of amenities too (again to their own owner through another differing company name)

But they will pay a huge amount less than they were last few seasons, partly because they were still renting the arms park (from their owner through a differing company name)

I could go into it all day but it works out to one thing, Thomas pockets getting fuller!

Risca Rev wrote:I'll probably never tire of an Irishman mentioning booing kickers.

Alun, you can't use the first game of the season as a stick to beat us with. After the dross they served as at the end of last season, they were lucky to have so many back first game.

But then people who don't attend games have no right to criticise attendances when they don't do their bit either.

Hi Risca:

I agree it was the first game and against a poor side (based on only one game) but as you admit the Dragons were not great last year. If the dragons are to survive they must inprove the crowds, sponsor income as well as revenue from boxes etc. With poor crowds, there will be no decent sponsors interested in the region. The other worry not only for the Dragons but all box income is company's and their customers don't go so much into entertaining as it is seen as not ethical, times are changing.

Regarding me doing my bit, sorry I don't have to do anything as the region I supported does not exist. I do go to games but I pick and choose and get the best of all including watching Swansea City, I saw them 6 or 7 times last season in a packed Liberty stadium, bit different from the rugby. I am still a rugby supporter and watch Wales, Pontypool, Pontypridd, Ospreys and Blues but the Wales games are getting very expensive days out.

There have been a lot of posts claiming crowds are increasing year on year, I have questioned the claims hence my interest in the crowds numbers i.e., low crowds means Wales will have to flog the players again to fund the regions running at a loss, how long can it go on?

I am getting little sick and tired now of people harping on about low attendances at the regions but when it comes to Wales they always see a sell out. People who are not living in Wales should not be so quick to judge as they have no clue as to what goes on here. If people asked the question then they would more than likely find out why Wales is a sell out but the regions are not.

I can make a bold statement as to why the regions do not get sell out games, it is because there are not enough people for all the rugby clubs in Wales, I live in Merthyr Tydfil which is quite a big town which is in the Cardiff Blues region, but in my town alone you have Merthyr RFC, Cefyn Coed RFC, Dowlais RFC, Bedlinog RFC, Treodyrhw RFC, Nelson RFC, Treharris RFC, and there are probably one or two I have forgotten I am sure somebody on here could add to that list, now that is seven clubs all in one town, and every other town in Wales is the same, I am not even going into Pontypridd and Ebbw Vale, now when you think about the amount of people who go to watch these clubs play how on earth are they going to find the time and money to watch their region ? Now when Wales play then there is no club rugby on the same day as an international so where do all these people go ? Yes you've got it, they all make their way to the capital, so even though the regions are not as well supported as they should be, rugby itself is alive and kicking in Wales and a monumental scale, the regions will get there in the end it will just take ages for all the younger generations to start to affiliate themselves to their regions before their local village or town side. Of all the sides I have mentioned from Merthyr alone there are a potential thousand plus supporters from which the Blues could tap into,not to mention all the other towns in the "region" so give it time and it will happen.

There are only a few teams in Britain and Ireland that attract big crowds. There are Irish and English sides that get low attendances. Leinster covers a population of 2.5 million and currently have one of the best sides ever in the pro era, and less than 20k turn up at the weekends for home games. Rugby just doesn't attract crowds on the same scale as soccer. 5 to 10k is normal. More than 15k is very good. More than 20k is just Leicester Tigers.

I'm not sure about France but I think they get higher attendances across the board. And we can see their financial muscle, so it would be great if rugby in Britain and Ireland could expand the popularity of rugby more and keep up.

Feckless Rogue wrote:There are only a few teams in Britain and Ireland that attract big crowds. There are Irish and English sides that get low attendances. Leinster covers a population of 2.5 million and currently have one of the best sides ever in the pro era, and less than 20k turn up at the weekends for home games. Rugby just doesn't attract crowds on the same scale as soccer. 5 to 10k is normal. More than 15k is very good. More than 20k is just Leicester Tigers.

I'm not sure about France but I think they get higher attendances across the board. And we can see their financial muscle, so it would be great if rugby in Britain and Ireland could expand the popularity of rugby more and keep up.

Well there you go, 2.5 million live in Leinster, 3.5 million for the whole of Wales, so one region/province in Ireland has only 1 million less than the four regions have in Wales, take out North Wales from the equation, then you probably have the same population for Leinster as we do for all four of our regions.

LordDowlais wrote:
Well there you go, 2.5 million live in Leinster, 3.5 million for the whole of Wales, so one region/province in Ireland has only 1 million less than the four regions have in Wales, take out North Wales from the equation, then you probably have the same population for Leinster as we do for all four of our regions.

But the trick with that deal is always and ever that we are told Welsh people live and breathe rugby, that they are - along with New Zealand - the most passionate about the sport, that it's the national game etc, etc.

Therefore, it might be logical to suggest that by far more of your 3.5 million inhabitants are intersted in and knowledgeable about rugby than the 2.5 million people inside Leinster's domain - I'd pretty much guarantee you the vast bulk of that lot couldn't give a damn about rugby.... there's always Corrie to watch instead afterall

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Well there you go, 2.5 million live in Leinster, 3.5 million for the whole of Wales, so one region/province in Ireland has only 1 million less than the four regions have in Wales, take out North Wales from the equation, then you probably have the same population for Leinster as we do for all four of our regions.

But the trick with that deal is always and ever that we are told Welsh people live and breathe rugby, that they are - along with New Zealand - the most passionate about the sport, that it's the national game etc, etc.

Therefore, it might be logical to suggest that by far more of your 3.5 million inhabitants are intersted in and knowledgeable about rugby than the 2.5 million people inside Leinster's domain - I'd pretty much guarantee you the vast bulk of that lot couldn't give a damn about rugby.... there's always Corrie to watch instead afterall

Yes but how many rugby clubs are there in Ireland compared to the population ?

LordDowlais wrote:
Yes but how many rugby clubs are there in Ireland compared to the population ?

I wouldn't rightly know, Lord - I'm not that great at the stats... until my arguments need them and then I hunt them down like a slick assassin

Anyway, in reply to your point I'd again say that quantity wouldn't necessarily imply any degree of quality... or quality in quantity anyway. More likely that history, familial links and longer duration of indepth knowledge would suggest Wales might have the upper hand on the quality stakes there too, if not on quantity at this point.

Interesting according to the IRB Ireland has 153,823 players and 234 clubs.
Wales only has 79,800 players but has 314 clubs.

neilthom7 wrote:Interesting according to the IRB Ireland has 153,823 players and 234 clubs.
Wales only has 79,800 players but has 314 clubs.

We play 78 a side rugby here at sub-professional level It's new..it's only a trial, yes, it does get crowded around midfield..... but 15 number 10s is always a bonus.

Secretfly instead of talking in riddles and analogies listen to what I am saying, as neilthom has just posted for us, Wales has 314 rugby clubs shared between a population of 3.5 million people, take other sports out of that then there is not enough people to go around, I would hazard a guess that with Leinsters 2.5 million people they have the same population as all four of our regions so it would stand to reason that they would have more people at their games than any of the Welsh regions, and as I have also stated in another post above we will have to wait for the younger generation to affiliate themselves to a region before their village or town before we see the crowds growing at our regions, there is just not enough money or people in Wales or time for that matter for every body to watch all the rugby we have on show in this country, but when there is an international on the clubs do not play so that is why we see the population of Cardiff double on international day.

LordDowlais wrote:Secretfly instead of talking in riddles and analogies listen to what I am saying

Consider yourself told, Fly

sugarNspikes wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Secretfly instead of talking in riddles and analogies listen to what I am saying

Consider yourself told, Fly

Stop stirring, I did not mean it in a nasty way.

LordDowlais wrote:Secretfly instead of talking in riddles and analogies listen to what I am saying, as neilthom has just posted for us, Wales has 314 rugby clubs shared between a population of 3.5 million people, take other sports out of that then there is not enough people to go around, I would hazard a guess that with Leinsters 2.5 million people they have the same population as all four of our regions so it would stand to reason that they would have more people at their games than any of the Welsh regions, and as I have also stated in another post above we will have to wait for the younger generation to affiliate themselves to a region before their village or town before we see the crowds growing at our regions, there is just not enough money or people in Wales or time for that matter for every body to watch all the rugby we have on show in this country, but when there is an international on the clubs do not play so that is why we see the population of Cardiff double on international day.

I stand duly chastised Lord for my unseemly riddles and such I'll try to refrain from them from here on in....well, at least until tomorrow morning anyway.

But back to the topic, and it is undoubtedly clear to me that you know more about population facts and figures than I do so I'll sidestep the detail and suggest once more that Leinster has more people at their games because the side is mostly, almost exclusively, based in a Capital city, one designed for tourism and entertainment, and nights out and all that stuff and people collect in those kinda places. Cardiff I think has something like 300,000 population - Dublin has 1.5 million or thereabouts. So yes, population size adds numbers of bums on seats... I don't think I was disputing that one actually, only the idea that over the entire scope of Leinster (as a region) you'd find by far less people interested in rugby than you'd get in a crowded pub in Cardiff! - oops, sorry, I did say I'd wait until morning for that stuff.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Well there you go, 2.5 million live in Leinster, 3.5 million for the whole of Wales, so one region/province in Ireland has only 1 million less than the four regions have in Wales, take out North Wales from the equation, then you probably have the same population for Leinster as we do for all four of our regions.

But the trick with that deal is always and ever that we are told Welsh people live and breathe rugby, that they are - along with New Zealand - the most passionate about the sport, that it's the national game etc, etc.

Therefore, it might be logical to suggest that by far more of your 3.5 million inhabitants are intersted in and knowledgeable about rugby than the 2.5 million people inside Leinster's domain - I'd pretty much guarantee you the vast bulk of that lot couldn't give a damn about rugby.... there's always Corrie to watch instead afterall

Well you've been told wrong.

Portnoy wrote:Meanwhile it has to be said that Ravenhill has shown a marked decline in average attendance over the past 4-5 years. However last season's HEC should boost last year's average Rabo attendance of 7,454.
http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=394&statType=home_Att

UNfortunately those stats lack a little credibility when it stats, for Ulster

Average 7,454
Total 37,268

Did we only play 5 games at home last year ?

For what it is worth the total attendance at Ravenhill was higher than at Cardiff last year in all matches

Scarlets were indeed above Ulster.
The Ulster crowd was higher last year than the year before and will be even higher this year.
So far 2 friendlies with crowds over 7,000 and a home Pro12 game 30% higher than the equivalent match next year.
If we dont average 9,500 in Pro12 matches and over 10,000 in all matches, this year, I will be very surprised.

Our biggest problem is the capacity stops us having really big gates for certain matches - the management reckon we could have got 18,000 for 1 game last year (Leicester) and around 15,000 for 1 other (Leinster).
You will see 4 capacity gates this year, at least.

neilthom7 wrote:Interesting according to the IRB Ireland has 153,823 players and 234 clubs.
Wales only has 79,800 players but has 314 clubs.

While thats intresting, how many other sports do the 314 teams in Wales compete with?

For sake of argument, we'll say football is equally popular in both, so affects both equally.

Then add there are 807 GAA clubs in Leinster that competes for players, resourses, crowds of people, and you have to say for Leinster to average 18,000 a game, is pretty remarkable.

Kingshu wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Interesting according to the IRB Ireland has 153,823 players and 234 clubs.
Wales only has 79,800 players but has 314 clubs.

While thats intresting, how many other sports do the 314 teams in Wales compete with?

For sake of argument, we'll say football is equally popular in both, so affects both equally.

Then add there are 807 GAA clubs in Leinster that competes for players, resourses, crowds of people, and you have to say for Leinster to average 18,000 a game, is pretty remarkable.

You say football is equal ? Really, we both have massive support for the Liverpools and Manchester Utds of this world, but on our doorstep as well we have Cardiff and Swansea city who are massive in this country, without being ignorant I do not know of any BIG Irish football teams, how well supported are they, I would say they do not get anywhere near the crowds that the provinces get.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Portnoy wrote:Meanwhile it has to be said that Ravenhill has shown a marked decline in average attendance over the past 4-5 years. However last season's HEC should boost last year's average Rabo attendance of 7,454.
http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=394&statType=home_Att

UNfortunately those stats lack a little credibility when it stats, for Ulster

Average 7,454
Total 37,268

Did we only play 5 games at home last year ?

For what it is worth the total attendance at Ravenhill was higher than at Cardiff last year in all matches

Scarlets were indeed above Ulster.
The Ulster crowd was higher last year than the year before and will be even higher this year.
So far 2 friendlies with crowds over 7,000 and a home Pro12 game 30% higher than the equivalent match next year.
If we dont average 9,500 in Pro12 matches and over 10,000 in all matches, this year, I will be very surprised.

Our biggest problem is the capacity stops us having really big gates for certain matches - the management reckon we could have got 18,000 for 1 game last year (Leicester) and around 15,000 for 1 other (Leinster).
You will see 4 capacity gates this year, at least.

Geoff I think there is another issue, I believe that the reporting of attendance is different in Wales and Ireland.

Wales count all their season ticket holders (weither they are present or not) and add the number of additional tickets sold to create attendance, whereas In Ireland I believe they count the number of people through the gates.

So in Wales the attendance figures are inflated slightly. I suppose they are counting tickets sold, rather than numbers that attend. I'd say if Ulster operated the same method are attendance would be higher than Scarlets. Also I attended games that are packed, and the attendance has been reported lower than I expected, Noticed the same for Antrim GAA, I wonder do you have to pay Tax on numbers attending and its benificial to report it low, or estimate on the low side?

LordDowlais wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Interesting according to the IRB Ireland has 153,823 players and 234 clubs.
Wales only has 79,800 players but has 314 clubs.

While thats intresting, how many other sports do the 314 teams in Wales compete with?

For sake of argument, we'll say football is equally popular in both, so affects both equally.

Then add there are 807 GAA clubs in Leinster that competes for players, resourses, crowds of people, and you have to say for Leinster to average 18,000 a game, is pretty remarkable.

You say football is equal ? Really, we both have massive support for the Liverpools and Manchester Utds of this world, but on our doorstep as well we have Cardiff and Swansea city who are massive in this country, without being ignorant I do not know of any BIG Irish football teams, how well supported are they, I would say they do not get anywhere near the crowds that the provinces get.

The ferries are full most weekends of people traveling over to see Celtic, Liverpool, Man U etc etc. There may be a slight difference now with Swansea in Priemier league, but overall there wouldn't be to high a % difference, ie at a Man U on any given week I'd say there were as many Leinster mane there as Welshmen

Kingshu - "...Wales count all their season ticket holders (weither they are present or not) and add the number of additional tickets sold to create attendance, whereas In Ireland I believe they count the number of people through the gates..."

Yeah, why do we do this??? Aside from being bare-faced lying, isn't there a health & safety issue?

If, god forbid, a ground had to be evacuated for any reason, the emergency services would do a headcount and be desperately searching for hundreds/thousands of people who aren't actually there?

Casartelli wrote:Kingshu - "...Wales count all their season ticket holders (weither they are present or not) and add the number of additional tickets sold to create attendance, whereas In Ireland I believe they count the number of people through the gates..."

Yeah, why do we do this??? Aside from being bare-faced lying, isn't there a health & safety issue?

If, god forbid, a ground had to be evacuated for any reason, the emergency services would do a headcount and be desperately searching for hundreds/thousands of people who aren't actually there?

Does anyone actually have any proof that this is done? I have heard of teams releasing 'tickets-sold' figures, which are as you say season tickets+addition ticket sales, however I always thought that attendance was attendance (hence the tickets sold being used to cook the figures).

The Dragons won't be doing that this season. The season ticket is a barcoded card and if it isn't scanned as the holder goes in through the gates, they'll know he (or she) isn't / wasn't in attendance. They could have a similar barcode system for regular on-the-day tickets too, I don't know.

Kingshu you are correct we only count people who actually attend.

That is why we changed to bar codes on our ST's - it was a Healthy and Safety requirement.

The support services insisted on an accurate measure of those who actual attend.
Does this not apply in Wales

Basically Cardiff didn't have better Pro12 crowds than us last year then as I would calculate we could add something like 350 to each gate.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Kingshu - "...Wales count all their season ticket holders (weither they are present or not) and add the number of additional tickets sold to create attendance, whereas In Ireland I believe they count the number of people through the gates..."

Yeah, why do we do this??? Aside from being bare-faced lying, isn't there a health & safety issue?

If, god forbid, a ground had to be evacuated for any reason, the emergency services would do a headcount and be desperately searching for hundreds/thousands of people who aren't actually there?

Does anyone actually have any proof that this is done? I have heard of teams releasing 'tickets-sold' figures, which are as you say season tickets+addition ticket sales, however I always thought that attendance was attendance (hence the tickets sold being used to cook the figures).

TBH SS I only know this from these boards. it seams to be taken as fact, but I really don't know? I notice on BBC after Welsh games they have the attendance but not Irish games, don't know if this is something about figures being released, but does indicate different attendance reporting, otherwise they could just get them from pro 12 site, (maybe the Welsh are just quicker at updating it?).

Some of the Ospreys attendances that have been reported by the BBC looked very fishy. I swear there were 5,000 max once and it was reported as 7,000.

Kingshu wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Kingshu - "...Wales count all their season ticket holders (weither they are present or not) and add the number of additional tickets sold to create attendance, whereas In Ireland I believe they count the number of people through the gates..."

Yeah, why do we do this??? Aside from being bare-faced lying, isn't there a health & safety issue?

If, god forbid, a ground had to be evacuated for any reason, the emergency services would do a headcount and be desperately searching for hundreds/thousands of people who aren't actually there?

Does anyone actually have any proof that this is done? I have heard of teams releasing 'tickets-sold' figures, which are as you say season tickets+addition ticket sales, however I always thought that attendance was attendance (hence the tickets sold being used to cook the figures).

TBH SS I only know this from these boards. it seams to be taken as fact, but I really don't know? I notice on BBC after Welsh games they have the attendance but not Irish games, don't know if this is something about figures being released, but does indicate different attendance reporting, otherwise they could just get them from pro 12 site, (maybe the Welsh are just quicker at updating it?).

We should know after the first Os game if they do this or if it is just a myth. With the number of season ticket holders we should be able to spot if there is a sizable gap in reported and accual

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The Dragons won't be doing that this season. The season ticket is a barcoded card and if it isn't scanned as the holder goes in through the gates, they'll know he (or she) isn't / wasn't in attendance. They could have a similar barcode system for regular on-the-day tickets too, I don't know.

Yes they did. My wife had to scan her ticket as well.

Kingshu - most people on these boards that comments about attendances are not regular regional attenders (if at all). I know the scarlets have a season ticket where you need to hand in a voucher per match, and as some dragons fans have said they have barcodes on their tickets.

I know that the attendances are actually announced at the match 99% of the time, so maybe it is just that the welsh journos tend to jot it down as it is of interest to us (sadly).

Also, I think the whole thing about counting people who were not there (season tickets), started a when some regions were trying to counter the lack-of fans arguements by publishing tickets-sold as opposed to attendance. The there were the arguements about all the free tickets being given away etc etc.

Clubs won't be able to count the free tickets too, will they?

With one free friend + 4 free kids with every membership, the Ospreys average attendance for home games this season will be around 32,000.