Italian GP Thread - Contains Practice/Qualifying/Race spoilers - Sponsored by Romain Airways

[Fernando]

Italy will host the 13th round of the 2012 FIA Formula One World Championship with the teams making the trip across the Alps to the Autodromo Nazionale di Monza. Coming only a few days after an incident-packed Belgian Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps, the season moves directly to another classic track for the final European race of the year.

Since the redesign of Hockenheim, Monza has stood alone on the F1 calendar as an ultra-high speed circuit. Low-drag aero packages will be on display as teams set up their cars to go faster than they have before this year. But it isn’t all about the figures at the end of the straight. Sebastian Vettel proved that last year; winning from pole at Monza despite being consistently toward the bottom of the speed traps times. Instead he was able to carry more speed through the chicanes and corners onto the straights.

Monza will see the first driver change of the year with Jérôme d’Ambrosio confirmed by Lotus as their replacement for the suspended Romain Grosjean. The Belgian driver competed for Marussia in the 2011 Italian Grand Prix and qualified 22nd. His race ended abruptly with a gearbox failure in the opening minutes. He has happier memories from Monza in 2010, when he finished the GP2 Series sprint race on the podium.

Fernando Alonso goes to Monza with his lead in the Drivers’ Championship greatly reduced after a first-lap retirement in Belgium. His advantage over reigning world champion Sebastian Vettel is down to 24 points. Both men are Italian Grand Prix winners with two victories apiece – though with the grandstands certain to be swathed in Ferrari red, there’s no doubt who the crowd will be supporting this weekend.

Length of lap:

5.793km

Lap record:

1:21.046

(Rubens Barrichello,

Ferrari, 2004)

Start line/finish line offset:
0.309km
Total number of race laps:
53
Total race distance:

306.720km
Pitlane speed limits:
60km/h during practice; 100km/h during qualifying/race



Changes to the circuit since 2011


► The wall on the driver’s right approaching Turn One has been moved closer to the track and an additional marshal post provided 150m before Turn One.
► The track has been resurfaced from the exit of the Ascari chicane (turn 10) to a point after the exit of Parabolica (turn 11)..
► The pit wall fence has been renewed.

Italian GP
Fast Facts
► The Italian Grand Prix is one of only two ever-present races on the Formula One World Championship calendar, the other being the British Grand Prix
► The 1971 Italian Grand Prix won by Peter Gethin is regarded as the closest contended finish in F1 history. Gethin beat Ronnie Peterson by 0.01s. François Cevert was third at 0.09s, Mike Hailwood at 0.18s and Howden Ganley at 0.61s. In 2002, when F1 had moved to a timing regime with three decimal places, the gap between Rubens Barrichello and Michael Schumacher at the end of United States Grand Prix was timed at 0.011s, Ferrari staging a formation finish.
► Ferrari have dominated the Italian Grand Prix with 18 F1 World Championship victories. They are one of four Italian teams to have won, the others being Alfa Romeo, Maserati and Toro Rosso.
► The race has been held at Monza every year except 1980. That year the Italian Grand Prix was held at Imola. The decision to move the race stemmed from safety work being done to improve Monza in the aftermath of the terrible first-lap multi-car crash of 1978.►
► Winning at Imola gives four times Italian Grand Prix winner Nelson Piquet (1980, ‘83, ‘86, ‘87) the distinction of being the only driver to win the race on two different circuits.
► Michael Schumacher has one more win that Piquet, having won the Italian Grand Prix five times (1996, ‘98, ‘02, ‘03, ‘06). Behind them on three wins come Juan Manuel Fangio (1953, ’54, ’55), Stirling Moss (1956, ’57, 59), Ronnie Peterson (1973, ’74, ’76), Alain Prost (1981, ‘85, ’89) and Rubens Barrichello (2002, ’04, ’09).
► Alberto Ascari and Tazio Nuvolari also have three Italian Grand Prix victories. Ascari’s wins in 1949, ’51 and ’52 straddle the eras before and after the creation of the World Championship. Nuvolari’s (1931, ’32, ’38) came much earlier.
► Since 1922, when the original circuit was constructed, racing has taken place in the Royal Park at Monza. The early F1 years were characterised by the race switching between the road course – the forerunner of the track used today – and the full circuit, including the high-speed sections of track, incorporating Monza’s famous banking.
► 1961 saw the race last run on the full circuit, with Phil Hill taking his second of back-to-back Monza victories. Moss and Fangio have the distinction of having won on both the road course and the full circuit.
► Since the 1950s the road course has undergone many changes – almost all of them related to improving safety: a series of chicanes have been installed to bring speeds down; the long, sweeping curves have been tightened to allow for the creation of gravel traps and, most recently, gravel has given way to asphalt run-offs around some parts of the track.

Source:FIA.com

[Guest]

At least there's a certain Romain involved this week with that sponsor. Roll on P1 8.45am!

[Critical_mass]

[Guest]

Hamilton fastest in FP2. Normal Service Resumed. Incredibly close though and qualifying could be very exciting

[Critical_mass]

yeah really close 0.250 between lewis and Nico in 8th.

[Critical_mass]

Lewis is on fire at the mo in FP3

[Guest]

I don't get excited until Q3 results show Hamilton on the front row. Alonso looks right on his game which is worrying. Could be damage limitation for Red Bull this weekend.

[Fernando]

Paul Di Resta has a 5 place grid penalty.

Be interesting to find out what happened to Vettel's car didn't want to leave 6th gear

[Guest]

Vettel had a battery issue. Nothing major apparently.

[Critical_mass]

I don't get excited until Q3 results show Hamilton on the front row. Alonso looks right on his game which is worrying. Could be damage limitation for Red Bull this weekend.

Course, but FP3 can give us a good idea how the cars sit in relation to eachother.

ALonso does indeed look good too. Im gonna say either him or Lewis on pole.

[Guest]

I would say that it would be either Lewis or Fernando for pole but I can just see the headlines already of Jenson grabbing pole and the media writing about him not ever achieving a pole for McLaren and then two come along at once. Hopefully I'm wrong and LH can do the business.

[Critical_mass]

infact im going to say Alonso on pole as it looks like they're going to use the tow trick to get Alonso on pole.

There's talk of Mclaren having to do the same, but no i cant see that happening, rightly so too.

[SteveG]

Looks like Massa is towing Alonso around. If he gets pole then thats a perfect example of what Lewis probably looks at and says "thats why I need number one status if I'm going to win championships" and it'll be the main reason - and not money why he isnt 100% comitted to Mclaren.

[Critical_mass]

Looks like Massa is towing Alonso around. If he gets pole then thats a perfect example of what Lewis probably looks at and says "thats why I need number one status if I'm going to win championships" and it'll be the main reason - and not money why he isnt 100% comitted to Mclaren.

I agree. As i said in another thread, having no. 1 and 2 driver is the way forward. At least be prepared to put a 1 and 2 driver in place when needed. Like Ferrari are doing at monza. Problem is Button and Lewis appear well matched here at the mo. Alonso may not have an advantage in the race though.

Massa is doing well too, certainly better than he has been doing previous races.

[SteveG]

Ha ha. There go the Ferraris out for Q3. I coudn't help but whistle the old Benny Hill tune - you know the one (if ure old enough) where they all used to chase each other at the end.

[Critical_mass]

GET IN!!!!!! GO LEWIS!

What happened to Alonso - you think massa thought sod it you didnt really help me with a tow?

[Critical_mass]

Got to say, well done Massa too.

[SteveG]

Another pole for Lew - fantastic. Never saw the Alonso one coming though. What the heck went wrong there ??

[Critical_mass]

Yeh same here Steve, looked like Massa screwed him over assuming the tow was the plan and why not, he had the car to get 3rd..


EDIT - poor first chicane for Alonso by the looks of it.

[dyrewolfe]

Lol - like the thread title!

Well, well...a front row lockout for McLaren. Mighty performance by Lewis and a great job from Jenson, just a tenth slower.

Great showing from Massa to get third, out-qualifying his team mate for the first time this season. What on earth went wrong with Alonso? Sure he'll manage to make up some places during the race.

Also a great job by Di Resta to clock the 4th fastest time. Shame about his 5-place penalty.

Decent showings from Schumi and Rosberg. Not so good for Kimi. Either Lotus got the set-up wrong, or chose to focus on race performance. Similar story with Red Bull. I'm sure Raikkonen, Vettel and Webber will all finish higher than they start.

As for tomorrow, I just pray that Lewis and Jenson both make good, clean starts.

[Critical_mass]

Are Lotus running the double DRS this weekend?

[SteveG]

Either Lotus got the set-up wrong, or chose to focus on race performance.

Been disappointed with Lotus. What happened to their double DRS? Spa was washed out so surley Monza would have been the place to unleash it.

I just pray that Lewis and Jenson both make good, clean starts.

One thing from Spa that went totally under the radar was yet another poor start by Hamilton -and was one of the reasons Groj took a punt in the first place. So had he got clean away last week then it might have been a different story. Not sure how much of the starting procedure is manual but what I do know is that Hami used to be an epic starter and has recently pointed the finger at software. Either way it has definately cost him valuble points in the last two seasons and I hope he gets clean away tomorrow for whichever Maclaren comes out of the first corner first will pobably be the one that wins.

[Guest]

Agree regarding Hamilton's starts recently. I think this race is in McLaren's hands for sure, Schumacher & Massa will not challenge and will end up probably holding up the surge's by Vettel/Kimi allowing the McLaren's to sprint away.

Going to be a nervous start tomorrow. Hopefully Hamilton is leading exiting the first corner and has a clean 2.5 second stop (1 stop strategy as predicted) then the win will be his. Alonso qualifying 10th is quite brilliant for McLaren & Hamilton. They failed to capatilise on Alonso's DNF last week, in terms of Lewis, so I'm hoping he can do the business while Alonso enters damage limitation phase.

McLaren have the best car so it's time to press home the advantage.

[Fernando]

Alonso had a broken rear anti roll bar during his 1st run in Q3 hence why they helped Massa out instead although he actually went quicker on his own.

You can't mend that in the time alloted for Q3 so he was screwed went out for a lap to see if could get close get a few places but didn't happen

[liverbnz]

Are Lotus running the double DRS this weekend?

No which is odd considering the Renault engine is suffering compared to the Mercedes and Ferrari this weekend. Lower top speed is a factor round Mon a more than anywhere else.

[Critical_mass]

Yes very odd it would have been the perfect place to use it. They must be having issues with it - cant quite get it working right. Or maybe they've stopped developing it due to it being banned next season.

[liverbnz]

They are planning to use it in Japan.

[SteveG]

wonder if Sennas been told to up his game. Seems to be driving like a man under pressure.

[SteveG]

"think about how ure gonna manage the tyres Felipe - Alonso is behind" Ha ha don't you just love the (not so) coded messages from Smedley.

[dyrewolfe]

I dunno why they didn't just tell Massa to let Alonso past...its not like they have to code their messages now. Maybe they were just trying to soften the blow?

Anyway, superb drive from Hamilton that puts him 2nd in the standings. Button desperately unlucky and denied a fairly certain 2nd place after a fuel system failure.

Miserable weekend for Red Bull. Sad to see Vettel go out after some great racing. Not one of Webber's better drives either.

Superb drive by Massa and he would've had a podium, had he not had to let his team mate past again. Still, in terms of the drivers' title it was the sensible thing to do. Nando also did well to put himself in contention for a podium.

However, driver of the day for me has to be Sergio Perez. Absolutely stunning drive and showed the potential the Sauber has. Wasn't held back by Ferrari this time and thoroughly deserved his 2nd place. Good call by the team to use the option (medium) tyres for his second stint, when most of the others were on the primes (hard).

Good drive by Kimi and picked up some useful points today. Mercedes probably got the best result they could and made their 2-stop strategy work, showing good pace at the end, when the 1-stoppers were slowing down.

Also nice to see Di Resta and Senna pick up some points too.

[Gregers]

+1 on Perez, what a drive!

[SteveG]

Brilliant result for Hami but yeah got to agree driver of the day was Perez. Must admint when he got past Alonso I was starting to flap.

[SteveG]

Also thought Vettels penalty was a bit harsh. Apparently Vettel didnt leave enough gap but it looked more the case of Alonso going for a gap that wasnt there.

[Guest]

Even though Alonso has extended his championship lead it felt like a massive swing in Hamilton's favour this weekend. One thing is for sure, Lewis is coming........

@dyrewolf - you said Button would of got 2nd place if he had not retired with a fuel issue but do you think he would of held off Perez in the final stages, I don't think so. After his stop he was clearly 8 or so seconds off Hamilton and seeing as Perez finished only 4 seconds off Hamilton seems to suggest Perez would of just overtaken him at the end. Just shows that if a driver/car combination gets into that 'tyre window' they are pretty much unstoppable.

@steveG - That penalty for Vettel was a disgrace in my opinion and was not a good advert for F1 in my opinion. It was clear racing but obviously in F1 you cannot defend position or showcase defensive driving skills anymore. Disappointing home decision for Ferrari.

Fantastic weekend for Lewis and now needs to force home the advantage he has with this car. Red Bull will be back for sure, higher downforce circuit of Singapore will suit them. Kimi Raikkonen is just a superb driver and I'm glad he's back in F1, to be third in the world championship just emphasises what a talent this guy is. I think JB will continue to deny he's not out the championship but in reality he is. I can't see him helping Lewis at all until its mathematically impossible, which could be for a while yet, which obviously suits Alonso.

Going to be a epic ride now until Brazil. Surely the title is between Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton.

[Critical_mass]

Just managed to watch the race and WOW... what a race. Exciting right until the end.

Lewis into 2nd inthe wdc and not that far behind Alonso. Would love it to be a Alonso vs Lewis battle for the wdc.

Great race by Perez, he was awesome.

I see what John has said about supporting Lewis. I agree i dont think it'll happen. But they must back him 100% now. I also agree that Perez would have definately got Button.

[dummy_half]

Would have been a good race between Button and Perez for 2nd - difficult to know what would have happened as presumably Lewis was only running as quickly as he needed to to manage the gap, and there was a bit more pace available in the McLarens.

The team should be really annoyed - at worst they were on for 1st and 3rd, with a good chance of 1st and 2nd, so would have closed right in on RB in the constructors championship and kept Alonso one place further away.

Driver of the race was definintely Perez - made the reverse strategy work (i.e. hard tyres for long first stint) with a very solid first stint sufficient to lead before his tyre change and then cutting through the traffic superbly on the better and fresher tyres. Alonso had a fine day too in a car that qualified out of position. Penalty on Vettel was harsh though - it wasn't realistic to try round the outside there, as SV was always going to run wide and leave insufficient space for Alonso.

Surely Ferrari should have just said to Massa 'Make sure Fernando gets ahead - he needs the points more than you do'.

Not sure Vettel is really in the hunt for the championship - his car just seems to lack pace at the moment, although that may be more to do with the low downforce characteristics of Spa and Monza which have shown the McLaren to have better pace. Really looks to be Alonso's title to lose now - his challengers seem to be taking points off each other while he keeps getting decent scores (when not being attacked by low-flying Renaults). It either needs a string of wins and 2nds from Hamilton or for Alonso to DNF for the gap to close.

[liverbnz]

Singapore will be a key indicator for how the rest of the season will go for me. It will show whether the closing of the engine mapping loophole has really affected Red Bull or if it was just the high speed tracks the Renault engine is naturally inferior on. I suspect the former as Vettel did show relatively decent pace in both races.

It will also show how far forward McLaren have actually come. They have been excellent these last 2 weekends, but these are races that they'd be expected to profit from.

[SteveG]

As far as downforce is concerned if Hungary is anything to go by then I expect Mclaren to go well at Singapore. It's higher track temperatures that seem to cause them problems such as in Bahrain. Dunno what the temp will be out there but they at least now seem to have a better handle on the tyres.

[Guest]

Not sure Vettel is really in the hunt for the championship

I think it would be foolish to rule out Red Bull & Vettel. Spa & Monza were always going to be the weak races for Red Bull and therefore damage limitation of sorts weekends. Vettel managed to pick up a 2nd place in Spa & an unfortunate DNF in Monza so in my opinion, even though they've lacked the straight line speed they've managed to do relatively ok. The Renault engine was clearly inferior at the recent power circuits, however going to Singapore and it's high downforce will suit the Red Bull and I full expect a strong result for the team and it's drivers.

Vettel is 39 points behind Alonso with seven races to go (175pts)........certainly, undeniably, unequivocally & beyond question in this title hunt. It's going to be one hell of a fight. Will it be Lewis joining Alonso & Vettel as a double world champion or will Alonso or Vettel become undoubted legends of the sport by becoming a three time world champion?

[SteveG]

Vettel has been the dark horse this year. Done nothing spectacular but has just kept plugging away quietly in the background picking up the points.

[Critical_mass]

Why was Webber allowed to retire because he had flat spot on his tyres. I mean he'll be able to have a free engine/gearbox change wont he, as long as the retirement is justified.

Surely flat spots on tyres isnt justification enough.

[Fernando]

Id expect it would of been down to canvas making it unsafe

[SteveG]

From what I seen/heard Critical is that he had chronic flat spots on all four tyres - some down to the rim and was in danger of severely damaging the floor of his car.

[SteveG]

canvas !! thats the word I was looking for.

[Critical_mass]

Which is fair enough, but surely a pit stop would have sorted that out. He did make it back to the pits. Just didnt make sense to me.

[SteveG]

perhaps with it being so late in the race with nothing left to play for they would be justified in calling it a day. And if that gives them a free gearbox/engine change then happy days. Nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose.

[Critical_mass]

Im not convinced to be honest. But in the grand scheme over things, i suppose it doesnt matter.

[liverbnz]

I wondered about the Webber retirement myself. Could he not have coasted to the end of the race and scored himself a point. Perhaps it was better for him to retire but his demeanour and motivation have been questionable since he penned his new deal. I'm a big fan of Webber, but if he can't get himself motivated (and this is just my perception) then he should let someone else have his seat.

[Guest]

Webber will never win a world title, he had his chance in 2010 and blew it. He's way too inconsistant, one weekend flying and then two weekends absolutely nowhere. Will always play second fiddle to Vettel at Red Bull whatever the circumstances.

I do like Webber as a man but he's not the most exciting driver out there. Would rather he retired but in reality there's no1 upto the job as of yet. In an ideal world, I would of loved to have seen Kubica take his seat.

[Critical_mass]

I wouldnt have questioned Webber's retirement had it not being in the rules that a retirement must be justified.. normally its pretty obvious and doesnt need explaining.

If the rule wasnt there i wouldnt have thought anything of it.

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