Well that's it for me.

First topic message reminder :

After thinking and fuming about another pathetic perfromance by the Boks yesterday I have decided that until Meyer either resigns or decides to take a new direction for Bok rugby I am no longer going to support his efforts.

I held on for the last two years to see how embarressingly poor the Springbok record has become and there is currently no way Meyer will convince me that he has anything up his sleeve that will turn things around.

His continuous excuses, his captain that blindly echo's every sentiment is infuriating to the point where I will break my 40" LCD.

We'll learn from this.

They are to Bloody stupid to learn anything. We couldn't even scrum against the Aussies, we couldn't dominate the breakdowns, no matter whether it is Ruan Pienaar, Francois Hougaard, Fourie du Preez or the man on the moon, we can't clear a rcuk quickly enough becuase the halfback is "waiting" to setup the next predictable forwrd pod, and then gets counter rucked.

I think yesterday's game must have been the most kicks I have seen in a game of soccer, never mind rugby.

How can they not get the fact that everyone and his dog knows about the forward pod that runs from the 1 channel, even the blind school knows about it.

Anyhoo, wnanted to vent, but that's me, no more talk about the Boks until they get their act together, it is embarressing to think how much talent is wasted in such a once proud rugby nation.

Knowsit17 wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:

To go down a fifth straight loss against Australia is truly the bottom of the pit.

Look at it this way Biltong...Wales are on 7 straight defeats to Australia and they are celebrating how great they are! At least the perspective is still straight!

I'll bite. I don't recall seeing many Welshmen frothing over "how great they are". I've seen some euphoria over what we have achieved recently, which is three Slams in 8 years and coming this close to a RWC final. Is that not worth being happy about?

My point exactly Knowsit. I'm not having a poke at Wales. But I can't imagine Euphoric south african fans because they'd beaten the NH sides three times each in 8 years and missed out on a RWC final to France and lost seven in a trot to Australia.

I'm merely point out the difference in perspective.

Who is a better coach PDiv or Meyer?

PDV was not a coach, he has little technical experience of how to improve a team long term.

He did win a junior world championship, but that is more down to it being a short period of required perfromances with talented players not really selected by him.

Meyer knows how to build a squad, but he needs to change his mentality over his gameplan, and perhaps be a little more openminded to suggestions.

Does that me you prefer to have Meyer in charge?

No, I would prefer Nick mallet.

Biltong wrote:No, I would prefer Nick mallet.

What about Brendan Venter. He is a bit mad and sometimes says stupid things, not unlike PDiv and White but is a good coach.

To be honest, I don't really know too much about his ability to manage players and his technical nous.

I know he has been controversial at times, and he was part of the coaching setup that coached our Junior boks to victory this year.

Biltong wrote:To be honest, I don't really know too much about his ability to manage players and his technical nous.

I know he has been controversial at times, and he was part of the coaching setup that coached our Junior boks to victory this year.

There are a few coaches that seem to have hit the coaching scrapheap that are actually pretty good coaches:

Brendan Venter
Dean Richards
Eddie O'Sullivan

For all their flaws I'm surprised none of them are in high profile jobs by now because they all have very good records as coaches.

Ninety minutes rugby in four months. No wonder he's desperate to play. Right attitude, wrong team I guess. Now he's going out on his own to talk to the press. I suppose hes being civil enough but the frustrations sure there.

hi Guys

This is my first post on this site. Used to be on the old BBC 606 and decided to get back into the community.

The problem with the boks is simply. The issue is coaching, the standard of coaching throughout our various structures are appalling at best. The importance of balls skills are not taught from school boy level. Why pass and create a gap, when we can crash and bash into the opposition. This can only be resolved from school boy rugby and setting the correct structures. i'm not saying to give up own traditional game, but learn to do more, develop vision, soft hands, improve our rugby IQ. Imagine an aggressive bok pack with better skill levels and backs with the intentions of running at pace, smart interplay and not afraid to try something except the dreaded up and under.

As a Saffa, i know the talent we possess and based on that alone,we should be on par with NZ. The frustration is that, with all this talent at our disposable, we choose to play safe, obsolete brand of rugby that dishonors our legacy and further aggravate the long standing Bok fans.

As the Bhuddha said, 'to change the world, we must first change our perception', this is what is needed in SA rugby and I don't mind us losing till we learn this lesson and adapt to the new world. The world needs the Boks to be a force to once again.

TomJones wrote:hi Guys

This is my first post on this site. Used to be on the old BBC 606 and decided to get back into the community.

The problem with the boks is simply. The issue is coaching, the standard of coaching throughout our various structures are appalling at best. The importance of balls skills are not taught from school boy level. Why pass and create a gap, when we can crash and bash into the opposition. This can only be resolved from school boy rugby and setting the correct structures. i'm not saying to give up own traditional game, but learn to do more, develop vision, soft hands, improve our rugby IQ. Imagine an aggressive bok pack with better skill levels and backs with the intentions of running at pace, smart interplay and not afraid to try something except the dreaded up and under.

As a Saffa, i know the talent we possess and based on that alone,we should be on par with NZ. The frustration is that, with all this talent at our disposable, we choose to play safe, obsolete brand of rugby that dishonors our legacy and further aggravate the long standing Bok fans.

As the Bhuddha said, 'to change the world, we must first change our perception', this is what is needed in SA rugby and I don't mind us losing till we learn this lesson and adapt to the new world. The world needs the Boks to be a force to once again.

Dont know if the world needs anything from the Boks but the Bok tactics are appauling and have been for sometime. A far cry from the days of Joost VanDerV and the '95 team when the Boks played much more exciting and savvy rugby.

Biltong wrote:PDV was not a coach, he has little technical experience of how to improve a team long term.

He did win a junior world championship, but that is more down to it being a short period of required perfromances with talented players not really selected by him.

Meyer knows how to build a squad, but he needs to change his mentality over his gameplan, and perhaps be a little more openminded to suggestions.

Is he actually capable of that tho, Biltong?

Welcome to the board, TomJones

Unusual to find Tom Jones supports the Boks.

Yes welcome tomjones. That opinions one I totally agree with. For me its coaching presently but more fundamentally grassroots rugby, adapting to modern approaches to the game, learning and evolving. No team will be at the top of the tree if its philosphy is based on the past. And meyer is certainly that.

TomJones wrote:hi Guys

This is my first post on this site. Used to be on the old BBC 606 and decided to get back into the community.

The problem with the boks is simply. The issue is coaching, the standard of coaching throughout our various structures are appalling at best. The importance of balls skills are not taught from school boy level. Why pass and create a gap, when we can crash and bash into the opposition. This can only be resolved from school boy rugby and setting the correct structures. i'm not saying to give up own traditional game, but learn to do more, develop vision, soft hands, improve our rugby IQ. Imagine an aggressive bok pack with better skill levels and backs with the intentions of running at pace, smart interplay and not afraid to try something except the dreaded up and under.

As a Saffa, i know the talent we possess and based on that alone,we should be on par with NZ. The frustration is that, with all this talent at our disposable, we choose to play safe, obsolete brand of rugby that dishonors our legacy and further aggravate the long standing Bok fans.

As the Bhuddha said, 'to change the world, we must first change our perception', this is what is needed in SA rugby and I don't mind us losing till we learn this lesson and adapt to the new world. The world needs the Boks to be a force to once again.

Welkom boet.

We need more South Africans here, even if it isn't the best of times for us.

I see you're in Jo'burg, we must meet up for a beer and a chat sometime.

I am sure it has been asked and discussed before, but why is White and Jones not in the bok's setup anymore? They are both still involved in the game, and with them there was a RWC win too.

White will coach Australia before he'll coach SA again.

Biltong wrote:White will coach Australia before he'll coach SA again.

Interesting because at the lead up to the last WC he seemed pretty keen to be SA coach again.

Would you like Robbie Deans? I reckon he will be available before year end.

I'd probably give him a shot, why not?

OzT wrote:I am sure it has been asked and discussed before, but why is White and Jones not in the bok's setup anymore? They are both still involved in the game, and with them there was a RWC win too.

White burnt too many metaphorical bridges in SARU and government before and after leaving so it's unlikely they'll take him back (Truth be told some of those metaphorical bridges deserved to be burnt). That's probably also why Mallett didn't make the cut as coach. He upset too many fragile egos on his way out last time.

It would be nice if the powers-that-be in SA rugby worked as a team, but in reality they're a loose coallition of warring tribes

Very true MR Fishpaste, however I think Jurie Roux is getting there,he just has a lot of work to do before we get back on track.

shame, I thought those two worked well for the bok side.

SA don't need foreign coaches, they need the powers that be to allow their coaches to coach in an unfettered way.
Look at the leeway given to Deans and Henry and Hansen. No politics involved once they are selected to coach. The fear of failure for them is from within not so much from up high.

Thoughts are it'll be tried and true with Meyer...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7656766/Springboks-to-stick-with-conservative-plan

Also dont get Ali Williams callup. He's been consistently poor for 2 years now. Terrible for the Blues and worse for the AB's in the Irish cameos that he did play.

Honestly feel this is a mates rates deal going on here. We know McCaw has business interests with Williams (they own property in South Auckland at least) so who knows what else is going on with Mssrs Hansen and co.

nganboy wrote:SA don't need foreign coaches, they need the powers that be to allow their coaches to coach in an unfettered way.
Look at the leeway given to Deans and Henry and Hansen. No politics involved once they are selected to coach. The fear of failure for them is from within not so much from up high.

You not going to get politics out of SA sport for at leas another generation, that is unfortunately the facts.

Taylorman wrote:Thoughts are it'll be tried and true with Meyer...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7656766/Springboks-to-stick-with-conservative-plan

Also dont get Ali Williams callup. He's been consistently poor for 2 years now. Terrible for the Blues and worse for the AB's in the Irish cameos that he did play.

Honestly feel this is a mates rates deal going on here. We know McCaw has business interests with Williams (they own property in South Auckland at least) so who knows what else is going on with Mssrs Hansen and co.

Who would you have called up instead of Williams, Taylorman?

Isn't it more just a training thing, he's not in the squad is he? McCaw, Ali and DC have a drinking water business as well. 5c from every bottle to charity, good lads.

ebop wrote:Isn't it more just a training thing, he's not in the squad is he? McCaw, Ali and DC have a drinking water business as well. 5c from every bottle to charity, good lads.

Didn't the water business go broke?

If so I'd stay away from any business ventures with DC-he tried to being Gas Jeans to NZ and that folded too. Was a shame actually-they've got some really good stuff. Have a few things from them that are great.

jarrod hoeta before ali surely. Reeks of mateship.

Yeah think you're right kiwi. Missus has a bottle kicking about she refills. Actually, I'd forgotten all about Ali, thought the ABs had moved on and was surprised to see his name mentioned.

Business buddies ebop...

I'm not sure how long Meyer will be with the Boks, I get the feeling he was appointed as a stabilising influence, you know what you get with him, and it certainly isnt going to be an incisive, new to the game, running rugby formula.

I see him a bit like Roy Hodgson when he was appointed as manager for Liverpool during the time they were goign through a change in ownership. Roux is behind the scenes in SA and seems to be making steps to make everything more straight-forward and visible. I think the Boks will be bringing a new coach in after Roux has made the changes he wants to make to the SA structure (backroom/grassroots/junior levels etc).

Dont despair Bill, in 2009 most welsh fans were calling for Gatlands head after seeing a side full of the 'old guard' go down against nearly everyone bar Italy & Scotland. Whether by luck or genius Gatland then started getting the formula right and introducing the younger players who had what was needed.

SA have too much potential in their playing pool for their current test-form to continue. Its just a question of how long the evolution (not revolution as many are touting here) takes.

Mate we all want to believe that, but Meyer has a contract for 4 years.

Although there is a likely performance clause in his contract it isn't likely to be much higher standards than what was achieved before.

I reckon if we wins 2/3 games he is safe.

The problem still is 2/3 games is nowhere near good enough.

Besides, if they replace him who will be next in line?

he does indeed, but after hearing of international coaches being fired in the carpark after his team has just gone out at the group stages of a world cup, I always think these contracts need to come with a pinch of salt...

It only ever takes an injury 'crisis' to the settled team for a host of the younger players to be involved. You already put up an article showing the evolution of the bok pack, and you yourself have given detail about injuries to the latest generation of exciting bok backs coming through which has limited selection before Meyer even questions his gameplan. Then when you think theres players the stature of Burger to come back (and boy what a difference that 1 man could make to ANY team in the world) I dont think the mid-term future is as bleak looking as the short-term.

Roux's made a great start to improving the long term future of Bok rugby, hopefully he's a man that can improve the setup through the politics you guys have to contend with.

Chin up old boy

Truth be told, I have a lot more faith in Jurie Roux than anyone else at SARU.