Argentina: Mid season balance.

Many things have been said about Argentina in recent months, it was wrong to participate in the championship; they are very weak, which would undermine the tournament, they not have enough level, they lose with very bulky, etc.
Whenever I stated that there is no better option than Argentina to be the fourth team in the tournament, I repeat over and over that Argentina is not Italy, and always trust their good performance.
I remember on the first round, the Boks were disappointed not to get the bonus point. In the second round, the target was bonus point, not only did not get it, but could not win, and were lucky to get a draw undeserved.
In the previous game against AB, nobody talked about getting the bonus point, a good sign. Not only that, AB coach Steve Hansen praised the Pumas and said he was particularly impressed with the South Americans’ unique defensive system, Hansen said, Argentina is one of the best defensive sides in the world and would be a valued and awkward opponent (what difference with the opinions before the tournament!) Must see things in the right measure, play against the AB in NZ is undoubtedly the most difficult match for any team in the world, is the match that no team in the world want to play. And Argentina passed this difficult test with flying colors. And nobody now saw as failure of AB not getting the bonus point.
The Pumas ARE better than they are given credit for, in my opinion is as good as best teams in the 6N (or maybe a step above) and is still one step below 3SH.
I firmly believe that Australia is going to have in troubles playing against Pumas.
The second half of the tournament will be more favorable to Argentina, and surely we will see the best of the Pumas. The problem has always been for Argentina has been the lack of competition in an annual tournament, and now that it has greatly improved their level. The more games they play, the better their level, and each day we will see they strongest.
I also believe that the three remaining matches Argentina is able to win all three, I do not say that they win, but they can win, the games may be defined by small details.
I predict they will win the match against Australia in Rosario, and have very good chances in the other two. It wouldn't be strange they win two of three.
As always I'm sorry for my poor English, thank you.

Argie Fan – anyone who thought the Pumas were not deserving of a place in the best rugby tournament in the world should be taken out the back and shot. They are deserving and I have been impressed by them so far. Now, it is up to their players to make a decision; should they take pay cuts to play in the Super XV, getting them used to the players they will face more often than not at intl level, or do they take the money and play 52 wks a year?

Yes, they will cause Australia problems. I have Argentina pencilled in for a home win, however they could make an upset on the GC this week if they can obliterate Australia’s pack. They need to add variety to their game though because as some commentators have pointed out correctly, it is hard to see where they will score tries against well organised defences apart from at close range.

Well done thus far

The Pumas have proved great adversai
Ties so far and their support has added a new culture to what was already a superb championship.

I would hope that maybe the PI nations might also join in the not too distant future to see a tournament resembling the six nations format of home and away fixtures on consecutive years.

Hey Argie Fan,

There is no other team better suited to play in this championship. You already achieved enough to say that you belong at this level and I think you might even do a bit more still to come.

The only thing I think that might trouble you guys is the fact that you haven't played a tournament like this before and might slack of at the latter part.

I am also a bit concerned with how you guys seem to dip after the 60 minute mark, but I am sure it is just because of the lack of this type of intensity for 80 for consecutive games. This will fade as your team gets more of this type of clashes. This might also be because of substitutions, which might indicate a little bit on depth issues. I don't know your players that well, but when Roncero leaves the field the team looks much more frail. I don't know if he is that good, or if he just fits in better with the rest of the team than his replacement.

Am sure Argentina will do well in this tournament, and start vying to win their home game sooner rather than later.

Two things Argie fan.

I can't remember anyone here saying that Argentina shouldn't be in the Rugby championship, in fact from memory the SH posters were all very welcoming of them.

Secondly, to say a team doesn't deserve to get a draw sounds a little sad.

I can add that Argentina Played a spoiling tactic against the Boks that frustrated our dimwitted players to no end, they were more focused on the players than the ball.

The teams drew, they both deserved it.

you could argue the Boks were lucky, but not undeserved.

Argentina are a shining star of country development in this illustrious sport, a beacon of hope and example for the third/fourth tier nations. To rise almost from obscurity in a short space of time and pose a regular solid challenge to the giants is quite frankly an amazing achievement. They may not yet be to the point where they are securing big wins on a regular basis but the Pumas have come a long way from the time when they were competing with the likes of Uruguay and the USA.

I do however disagree on one point. I don't believe Argentina are given less credit than they deserve as you insinuate and I don't believe they are on the same page or better than the majority of 6N sides, at least not yet. England, France, Ireland and Wales all have the kick in them to do better still. All have secured wins over a top-three nation in the last few years and all have won Grand Slams/championships very recently. I don't believe the Argies will have matched this were they in the same tournament.

Interesting call. Argie were certainly tougher than Ireland bar the second test.

Plus theyve had consistent performances. They will have their ups and downs over the years in this tournament like all the sides have so far.

The dropping off late in the game is understandable for a new side entering this tournament and experience, preparation, and familiarity with the travel, cities and stadiums visited will help.

As with most comments made so far...henry said it after the first SA match...they need to learn how to attack and score tries to be a real force.

Given the argie culture, its footballing prowess, flair and skill in this game looks achievable for them and its so much more entertaining having a side like this in the competition.

The Pumas when at full strength are formidable opponents especially at Home.Trouble was they were seldom at full strength RWCs apart. IF they were
playing in the 6Ns would expect a mid table position with at least 3 wins per season.What they need is Super Rugby side IF it becomes a Super 16 then they not SA should have it.I have nothing against SA rugby I respect it above all others except NZ`s.BUT there sides have done nothing to deserve elevation above there two partners

The Pumas will come on leaps and bounds and if I was Wales I would be nervous about the Autumn test.

Think Argie probably have exceeded expectations, mine at least, and it's a wonderful thing. I feel a win is imminent and perhaps sooner than expected.

May be getting ahead of myself here, but can they win a WC? Defence has been shown to be a winning formula. The experience they'll gain in the 4N will mean they may not come up agonisingly short at the pointy end as in the past. No doubt they'll learn strategies to win games against 3N and already seem to do ok against most 6N.

ArgieFan, how have the performances been recieved in Argentina thus far?

I appreciate your answers and opinions, some of them very interesting.
First of all, in this thread I have expressed my opinion no offense to anyone. I will try to answer some questions and clarify issues.

chewed_mintie:
I agree with you, about the argentine players play in Super XV is a very good issue, nobody know what will occurs in the next years in this issue.

maestegmafia:
Thank you for your words.

FerN:
"I am also a bit concerned with how you guys seem to dip after the 60 minute mark..."
Its a very good issue, is a question that arises a lot in Argentina, and I'm sure that the technical team is also discussing this topic.
However, in the case of the last game, can be associated with the fact that the yellow card left the team with 14 players at minute 53 (if I remember correctly) and precisely from that moment AB's made their two trys and broke the game, this happened when Argentina played with 14.

Biltong:
Is very difficult to handle the exact words in another language, I apologize if I offended you, I may have to put it another way.
Boks were lucky to get a draw, in a match that Argentina deserved win.
Anyways friend, you well know that sport is not always fair, often undeservedly you win or lose, that's sport.

Knowsit17:
Your use of language is truly rich, congratulations for your poetic words.
Regarding 6N greatly respect your opinion, but I still think that in a hypothetical 7N (6N + Argentina) playing at home and away, Argentina would have very good chances to win the title.

Taylorman:
Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate it.

emack2:
Same to Knowsit17 respect 6N

mowgli:
Agree 100% with you.

ebop:
RWC 2015 is too far away, and in Argentina we never see it as an objective to win. But I dare to imagine that by that time Argentina may be number 4 in the world ranking.

mowgli:
I just hope that some moderator delete your comment for being out of place.

I think "unique defensive system" was a metaphor...

I'm going to go with Biltong's intial sentiment personally, i don't recall anyone saying that Argentina didn't deserve to be in the Rugby Championship. In fact, i'd go as far as to say that everyone here has seen it as great natural growth of the game in the Southern Hemisphere and been very welcoming.

If you heard these statements from paid pundits, hacks and 'journalists', then i recommend you stop listening to them, most of them are paid to be controversial or just talk utter balls. Trust your everyday working mans (and womans!) Rugby opinion more than most hacks.

For me this is the first time i've properly watched Argentina play with any deep and real interest and wow have they impressed! Us English and the Welsh do like a good bicker about the 4th place, but by the looks of things we'd best both look out as Argentina might well be taking a crowbar to us and take us both out of that running

The only thing i have noticed is that all internationals play for foreign teams, and it could be argued that to sustain at a high level you will a few high level clubs, but that's a domestic issue for the ARFU.

Yes that's the other thing about this side. The core of the team play their non test rugby thousands of miles away. No other side does that.

People should be. This is the first time they get any preparation as a team outside of the wc. usually the players all play in France/England during the winter. Teams downunder are often understrength and tours in autumn are often woefully prepared. As a team they should go forward.

I think a big issue is going to be the effect a very long season has on them. They are going to go back to their clubs a for a few weeks and then into the autumn tour and then into spring and summer tournaments. Something has to give.

I think the other issue is they'll need to adjust. I suspect that they have a certain novelty factor in terms of technique and tactics. Teams like NZ will adjust fairly quickly in order to break them down. that's got to be good for them in the long run.

I think they've been inherently as good as most European sides for while. A good thing for them is they have a lot of potential to grow.

I think Argentina will surprise some NH teams, they were good against SA, decent against the All BLacks for 60 minutes and should push Australia this weekend.

They will develop faster than Italy, that's for sure.

Too right. If they can shut down NZ's and Australia's attacks then they could find it easier against the NH sides as they are a lot less threatening.