Whiff of Cordite - How do you solve a problem like Ian

Saturday night saw another welcome development in the story of the precocious Ian Madigan. Another Man of the Match display in a Pro12 game, and the try he set up for Fionn Carr showcased his luminous talent. He has a fantastic, highly unusual (for Irish rugby) skillset: exceptional passing, breaking skills, eye for the tryline and now, solid place kicking [Aside: should Ferg be worried about this development?]. His weaknesses – game management and kicking from hand - are improving. Yes, we know he hasn’t successfully piloted a game through muck and rain in the style of the man he could potentially replace on the Ireland 22, Radge. Last year he carved up the Pro12 and started his first Heineken Cup game, at home to Montpellier. An international breakthrough seems inevitible this November.

But it’s becoming increasingly difficult to justify sitting him on the bench for the big games, no matter how well Jonny Sexton is playing. It’s getting to the stage where Madigan needs to take the next step in his career – starting Heineken Cup games regularly. WoC has been sniffy about complaints that Madigan ‘isn’t getting enough game time’ in the past, but this season, such is his quality, they will start to become relevant. Some hard decisions will have to be made.

What is Joe to do? He has a settled and successful team on the pitch, the best 10 in Europe, but has a seriously talented younger chap kicking his heels on the bench. He needs to balance the present, the future, and the maximisation of his existing resources. Can he get Madigan into the team, and how? Let’s look at the options:

■Status Quo. In this scenario, Sexton starts the big games and Madigan the Pro12 ones when Deccie says Sexton has a headache. At the very least Madigan will need to be given significant minutes off the bench in Heineken Cup matches.
■Sexton to 12. This was Deccie’s favoured ploy when he didn’t have the balls to drop Rog decided to play O’Gara and Sexton on the same pitch. To be fair, Sexton never looked uncomfortable, but yet, it never struck us as a viable long-term solution, and genuinely appeared as a sop to the bolshy Rog. Still, it fills what is aleady a problem position for Ireland, and is likely to become one for Leinster. Will Sexton, the best 10 in the Heineken Cup for the last two seasons and favourite to wear the Lions 10 jersey, be impressed with being taken out of the slot to accomodate the uncapped Madigan? In a word – no.
■Madigan to 9. This has been floated before, most eloquently by the Mole, but Madigan, unlike Giteau, has never played 9. It’s worth a shot if you feel it’s a genuine long-term option, but Leinster and Ireland are well-served in this specialist position, and it would look like a sticking plaster solution to accommodate both men in one team. And great as Madigan’s distribution is, passing from 10 is not the same as passing (and manging the tempo) from 9.
■Madigan to 12. With Ireland crying out for a silky distributor at 12, could Madigan, effectively, be the new Paddy Wallace? He’d have even more space at 12 than at 10. Ball-in-hand it looks a good fit, but the 12 channel is popoulated by monsters these days and while Madigan is a brave and competent defender, he probably lacks the sheer bulk to play there.
■Madigan to 15. Really? With Bob and Isa Nacewa in the squad? And Andrew Conway as the resident promising youngster? Not a runner.
■Stand Up And Fight. In this scenario, the incumbent (Sexton) gets unceremoniously benched for big games, and Madigan is thrown in to the first team. If Sexton becomes a bench-warmer at Leinster, he won’t be best pleased, and an iHumph-style flounce can’t be ruled out – could Sexy take over Rog’s red and green shirt?
No obvious solution then. No doubt Ian Madigan is aware that he is working with the best coach of backs in Europe, and it’s almost certain that without Joe Schmidt coaching him, Madigan would not be as far in his development as he is. It would be a wrench for him to leave all that behind, but this could be a summer for hard decisions.

Were he to look around, he would not lack for suitors. Both Munster and Ulster would be in the picture. Ulster are crying out for proven quality in the position and nobody knows how Paddy Jackson will go this season, while Niall O’Connor is squad player material. At Munster, the world and its mother knows that a legend is nearing the end of his career, and while Keatley has started this season well, doubts remain as to his ability at the very top level. Last year, you might have argued that Madigan’s skills could wither on the vine at those provinces, but the augurs are good under new coaching regimes. Mads would most likely have offers from abroad too, probably including franchises from the Super XV, to which his game would be tailor-made.

Leinster would surely hate to see such a special talent slip through their fingers. Somehow a way has to be found of getting him the necessary exposure to keep him happy and progressing at a suitable pace. Talent this special is rare indeed.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:But if you have two, and one of the players can play at an International level at 12, then is it not best to utilise both in the same team?

Chequered, I personally think the only reason we see Sexton as an effective International level 12 is, to put it bluntly, because we see little of his International level flyhalf quality in an Ireland shirt. Therefore, we tend to jump the gun and say "why doesn't he just move over to 12 and let Madigan have a go at 10.

Hmmm, my take always on that one is that under current conditions, if Madigan goes to 10 at International, he'll show the very same impotency as Sexton shows at International level. The problem is the coaching...or total lack thereof, not Sexton. Sexton and the Irish team need a team of coaches that will begin to coach to his and their strengths, and in that scenario, we'll have two 10s able (when called) to do what they do best

So you are saying fire Kidney first then see where you get with a decent coach?

Mickado wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:But if you have two, and one of the players can play at an International level at 12, then is it not best to utilise both in the same team?

Chequered, I personally think the only reason we see Sexton as an effective International level 12 is, to put it bluntly, because we see little of his International level flyhalf quality in an Ireland shirt. Therefore, we tend to jump the gun and say "why doesn't he just move over to 12 and let Madigan have a go at 10.

Hmmm, my take always on that one is that under current conditions, if Madigan goes to 10 at International, he'll show the very same impotency as Sexton shows at International level. The problem is the coaching...or total lack thereof, not Sexton. Sexton and the Irish team need a team of coaches that will begin to coach to his and their strengths, and in that scenario, we'll have two 10s able (when called) to do what they do best

So you are saying fire Kidney first then see where you get with a decent coach?

OR we could just try out these experiments with a good coach, like at Leinster.

Mickado wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:But if you have two, and one of the players can play at an International level at 12, then is it not best to utilise both in the same team?

Chequered, I personally think the only reason we see Sexton as an effective International level 12 is, to put it bluntly, because we see little of his International level flyhalf quality in an Ireland shirt. Therefore, we tend to jump the gun and say "why doesn't he just move over to 12 and let Madigan have a go at 10.

Hmmm, my take always on that one is that under current conditions, if Madigan goes to 10 at International, he'll show the very same impotency as Sexton shows at International level. The problem is the coaching...or total lack thereof, not Sexton. Sexton and the Irish team need a team of coaches that will begin to coach to his and their strengths, and in that scenario, we'll have two 10s able (when called) to do what they do best

So you are saying fire Kidney first then see where you get with a decent coach?

OR we could just try out these experiments with a good coach, like at Leinster.

Mickado wrote:Fly, I agree with you in full. I don’t think Sexton is the issue at international level, I think he’s the best OH in Europe and he’s being strangled by poor tactics for Ireland. I think he’s so good that he should stay where he is for Ireland and Leinster.

I think Madigan should replace Darcy, who’s star is fading, for Leinster and, if he’s up to scratch, Ireland.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Mickado wrote:Fly, I agree with you in full. I don’t think Sexton is the issue at international level, I think he’s the best OH in Europe and he’s being strangled by poor tactics for Ireland. I think he’s so good that he should stay where he is for Ireland and Leinster.

I think Madigan should replace Darcy, who’s star is fading, for Leinster and, if he’s up to scratch, Ireland.

I'm with you on that too Mick, although I amn't 100% which balance would work best but Joe played it Sexton at 10 and Madigan at 12 and I trust Joe

ChequeredJersey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

OR we could just try out these experiments with a good coach, like at Leinster.

Mickado, I hear your point and I think it was echoed by others up there but to say what you say just reaffirms my suspicion that many of you think Sexton is the issue at International fly-half and not Kidney's crew of coaches. I don't think we need to try that 12 fix with Sexton if we get a better coaching team. ie, I don't think the experiment is needed either at Leinster itself or at Leinster as a testing ground for International. I see talk of it as in a sense propping up the idea that Kidney isn't going to change so let's adapt with him. And just how often has he used any of Schmidt's ideas anyway. He's a stubborn man, is Kidney

Anyway, nope, not my temperament to placate a coaching team that aren't up to it.

But yes, as someone pointed out, this is about Leinster not Ireland. So sorry to everybody. I think we should be looking for d'arcy replacements (2 better than one) but I don't think Sexton should be where we're looking. Don't mind him at all slotting in when it's required, but trying to make him a specialist 12 is just killing a number he's already good at.

“I like Declan as a man manager,” he admits, “and I think it’s difficult internationally as well. You have short windows. Being coached by a lot of Australians (at Leicester) there are patterns they bring to the game which I was keen to do, but it’s tougher to coach that in an international set-up. We did have some patterns but they were just different to the ones I was used to.”

Of course he could always just select leinster players with Tommy Bowe who could probably manage.

Sin é wrote:

Geordan Murphy said in an interview in last Saturday's Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0908/1224323738407.html

“I like Declan as a man manager,” he admits, “and I think it’s difficult internationally as well. You have short windows. Being coached by a lot of Australians (at Leicester) there are patterns they bring to the game which I was keen to do, but it’s tougher to coach that in an international set-up. We did have some patterns but they were just different to the ones I was used to.”

The back play of Ireland when coached by Eddie might have looked a bit better for the simple reason that players 11-15 were from Leinster so spent a significant amount of time being coached and training together. The fact that Keith Earls started in 4 different positions in his last 4 rugby games doesn't help in settling a backline either.

Schmidt would only be successful with Ireland if he had access to the whole Ireland backline for longer than a week before having to compete. Of course he could always just select leinster players with Tommy Bowe who could probably manage.

That said, Murphy clearly bears grievances over his limited involvement in the 2009 Grand Slam campaign. He also reveals his attempts to broaden Ireland’s attacking game in the build-up to the 2011 World Cup, which he felt were worryingly over dependant on Seán O’Brien and Stephen Ferris taking the ball up, fell on deaf ears or were resisted by Kidney and the rest of the coaching staff.

Sin é wrote:
even Joe Schmidt might struggle unless Ireland just used the entire Leinster backline.

rodders wrote:If its Ireland A then I think he'll get a chance of some gametime.

I suspect that Madigan will be called into the training squad for the AIs, along with maybe Keatley and Jackson but the fly halves will be Sexton and ROG again this year.

Mickado wrote:Will Goodman be available by the AI's this year?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:That really isn't ideal preparation for the Clermont game at all at all.

Well we have got lucky a lot in past years with our preparation so hopefully this won't be a huge problem and at least we are playing them at home first