McIlroy Declares for Britain?

First topic message reminder :

Rory McIlroy has declared "I’ve always felt more British than Irish", "Maybe it is the way I was brought up, I don’t know, but I have always felt more of a connection with the UK than with Ireland". This seems like a pretty strong indication to me that McIlroy will represent Team GB at the Olympics in 4 years. I think its a smart move to declare his allegiance early and in good time rather than letting the media make a storm in a tea cup about the whole issue in 4 years time close to the games.

Genuine question as I have no idea - being a golfer in Ireland, did he have a choice about being in the GUI (ie being NI, do courses choose GUI affiliation over another union)?

I'm in the Isle of Man and I think all our courses are EGU so I am EGU member too. If I were good enough, I believe I could declare for any of the "home" nations, but as I had no choice of which union I was a part, I don't think that loyalty to that union would form a part of my internal discussion.

That said, I am nowhere near good enough and so haven't had any of the support that may have been afforded were there enough talent to nurture. How much do the unions of each golfing region put into talent nurturing (as that would generate loyalty that might be deserving of repayment)?

Just noticed this and thought someone should use it on this thread.

Thanks mac. In fact Rory has his own icon as well...

pedro

That looks more like Gareth bale.

Irish Fans
British Fans
Rory
Rest of the World

Thomond wrote:I would be disappointed if he doesn't compete for Ireland, I think he should as a GUI member and everything but at the end of the day it's his choice. If his heart isn't in it playing for Ireland then he shouldn't be playing for them. If he considers himself British then he should play for them. He would still get massive support from Irish people as he should.

he wont receive a massive support from the irish people if he plays for GB. why do you think this has become such a big deal?

Do golf fans really care about nationality? You scarcely see anyone caring outside of the Ryder Cup. Look at how many UK golf fans would sook on Woods' boaby given the chance.

storm in a tea cup and not remotely a big deal.

Seems the LPGA aren't bothered either. All flags of the home nations on show on the leaderboard AND smatterings of Union flags too.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Thomond wrote:I would be disappointed if he doesn't compete for Ireland, I think he should as a GUI member and everything but at the end of the day it's his choice. If his heart isn't in it playing for Ireland then he shouldn't be playing for them. If he considers himself British then he should play for them. He would still get massive support from Irish people as he should.

he wont receive a massive support from the irish people if he plays for GB. why do you think this has become such a big deal?

The only support he won't receive post-Olympic Team choice is from the biggots.

I have a preference in terms of where I think/hope he'd choose but I won't lose any sleep regarding his actual choice.

Gareth_NI wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Thomond wrote:I would be disappointed if he doesn't compete for Ireland, I think he should as a GUI member and everything but at the end of the day it's his choice. If his heart isn't in it playing for Ireland then he shouldn't be playing for them. If he considers himself British then he should play for them. He would still get massive support from Irish people as he should.

he wont receive a massive support from the irish people if he plays for GB. why do you think this has become such a big deal?

The only support he won't receive post-Olympic Team choice is from the biggots.

I have a preference in terms of where I think/hope he'd choose but I won't lose any sleep regarding his actual choice.

So, any Irish person who would be supporting Harrington over McIlroy to win a Gold Medal / Golf tournament is a biggot?

The Olympics should be abandoned as your support is generally based on sharing a nationality with the athletes. Do Somalians have to support Mo Farah?

The Kiwis give Quade Cooper an awful time (born in NZ but represents Australia) even though he mainly grew up in Australia.

super_realist wrote:Do golf fans really care about nationality? You scarcely see anyone caring outside of the Ryder Cup. Look at how many UK golf fans would sook on Woods' boaby given the chance.

storm in a tea cup and not remotely a big deal.

Why is the Ryder Cup so popular then with golfers? There is no prize money and they play the same courses that they play in every other golf tournament.

I think he's saying that if anyone turns their back on McIlroy on the basis on what country he chooses to represent in the future might be leaning towards intolerance.

Sin é wrote:

super_realist wrote:Do golf fans really care about nationality? You scarcely see anyone caring outside of the Ryder Cup. Look at how many UK golf fans would sook on Woods' boaby given the chance.

storm in a tea cup and not remotely a big deal.

Why is the Ryder Cup so popular then with golfers? There is no prize money and they play the same courses that they play in every other golf tournament.

It's one tournament as I intimated where nationality matter SIn, no others do, besides, it won't affect McIlroy's allegience, not like he can switch teams.

Sin é wrote:

Gareth_NI wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Thomond wrote:I would be disappointed if he doesn't compete for Ireland, I think he should as a GUI member and everything but at the end of the day it's his choice. If his heart isn't in it playing for Ireland then he shouldn't be playing for them. If he considers himself British then he should play for them. He would still get massive support from Irish people as he should.

he wont receive a massive support from the irish people if he plays for GB. why do you think this has become such a big deal?

The only support he won't receive post-Olympic Team choice is from the biggots.

I have a preference in terms of where I think/hope he'd choose but I won't lose any sleep regarding his actual choice.

So, any Irish person who would be supporting Harrington over McIlroy to win a Gold Medal / Golf tournament is a biggot?

The Olympics should be abandoned as your support is generally based on sharing a nationality with the athletes. Do Somalians have to support Mo Farah?

The Kiwis give Quade Cooper an awful time (born in NZ but represents Australia) even though he mainly grew up in Australia.

That's looking a little beyond where I was coming from.

I was meaning from folks turning their back on him or giving zero support dependant on his choice, those in my eyes are biggots regardless of whether he chooses Britain or Ireland.

super_realist wrote:I think he's saying that if anyone turns their back on McIlroy on the basis on what country he chooses to represent in the future might be leaning towards intolerance.

What do you mean by turning your back? Sports people loose support for lots of reasons like loss of form, new kid on the blocks, etc. etc.

Why should we bother with him - for instance we couldn't honour Rory with an 'Irish Sports Personality of the Year Award' because he says he isn't Irish just like we wouldn't honour Tiger with that kind of an award.

(Rory has won that Award which in hindsight seems to have been wasted on him. You'd prefer to see someone like Katie Taylor getting it - she hasn't yet won it yet - by the way Katie's father is English, so could have a British passport - can you imagine the British public voting for Katie as 'British Sports Personality of the Year Award' or awarding her a MBE having just won Olympic Gold for Team Ireland.

What are you talking about Sin. I'm talking about people discarding their support for him simply because he changes something as trivial as his nationality, whether that be British or Oirish.
That would be an idiotic stance to take.

No idea who Katie Taylor is by the way.

Gareth_NI wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Gareth_NI wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Thomond wrote:I would be disappointed if he doesn't compete for Ireland, I think he should as a GUI member and everything but at the end of the day it's his choice. If his heart isn't in it playing for Ireland then he shouldn't be playing for them. If he considers himself British then he should play for them. He would still get massive support from Irish people as he should.

he wont receive a massive support from the irish people if he plays for GB. why do you think this has become such a big deal?

The only support he won't receive post-Olympic Team choice is from the biggots.

I have a preference in terms of where I think/hope he'd choose but I won't lose any sleep regarding his actual choice.

So, any Irish person who would be supporting Harrington over McIlroy to win a Gold Medal / Golf tournament is a biggot?

The Olympics should be abandoned as your support is generally based on sharing a nationality with the athletes. Do Somalians have to support Mo Farah?

The Kiwis give Quade Cooper an awful time (born in NZ but represents Australia) even though he mainly grew up in Australia.

That's looking a little beyond where I was coming from.

I was meaning from folks turning their back on him or giving zero support dependant on his choice, those in my eyes are biggots regardless of whether he chooses Britain or Ireland.

I'd say most Irish people would treat him the same way as they might treat Luke Donald or Tiger.
They will root for Harrington, McDowell and Clarke (and thats because even though McDowell & Clarke may regard themselves as British and it maybe a dilemma for them if they have to choose, but they have never turned their backs on their Irish heritage which is what Rory has just done, realised and now is backtracking on).

You really care that much about Nationality, or rather other peoples nationality? That's quite sad.

super_realist wrote:What are you talking about Sin. I'm talking about people discarding their support for him simply because he changes something as trivial as his nationality, whether that be British or Oirish.
That would be an idiotic stance to take.

No idea who Katie Taylor is by the way.

There is nothing trivial about nationality. Ask any British person from Northern Ireland their opinion on it.

Katie Taylor is the best woman's boxer on the planet (World Champ 5 or 6 times, Olympic Gold)

Have a look at this clip (her fight against the British boxer Natasha Jones in the recent Olympics - note that the arena was full of Irish people supporting Katie, and not British people as you would expect it to be in London).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H946qJbKzzU

and therein lies the whole root of NI's childish bickering problems.

If Northern Ireland had their own Independant Golfing Union (or indeed entry for World Golf Cup) I feel we would not even be having this discussion whether McIlroy, Clarke or McDowell.

Sin é wrote:

super_realist wrote:What are you talking about Sin. I'm talking about people discarding their support for him simply because he changes something as trivial as his nationality, whether that be British or Oirish.
That would be an idiotic stance to take.

No idea who Katie Taylor is by the way.

There is nothing trivial about nationality. Ask any British person from Northern Ireland their opinion on it.

Katie Taylor is the best woman's boxer on the planet (World Champ 5 or 6 times, Olympic Gold)

Have a look at this clip (her fight against the British boxer Natasha Jones in the recent Olympics - note that the arena was full of Irish people supporting Katie, and not British people as you would expect it to be in London).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H946qJbKzzU

All that shows is Ireland had few medal chances and the Irish supporters made a big effort to support one of their stars. Jones is hardly a household name in Britain and was a massive underdog for the fight, its not like she had legions of fans lining up to support her unlike Taylor, who by the way is indeed a brilliant fighter. I was in the Olympic park watching on the big screens when Taylor won gold and the support for her was massive from everyone there who coudl see and respect a class athlete.

Gareth_NI wrote:If Northern Ireland had their own Independant Golfing Union (or indeed entry for World Golf Cup) I feel we would not even be having this discussion whether McIlroy, Clarke or McDowell.

NI don't tend to do too well in sports that they have gone on their own way in (i.e., soccer) - don't underestimate the use of the collective resources of the island. For instance, would a NIGU have the resources to send young people to compete in tournaments around the world? Far more golfers in the ROI paying subs to the GUI.

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

super_realist wrote:What are you talking about Sin. I'm talking about people discarding their support for him simply because he changes something as trivial as his nationality, whether that be British or Oirish.
That would be an idiotic stance to take.

No idea who Katie Taylor is by the way.

There is nothing trivial about nationality. Ask any British person from Northern Ireland their opinion on it.

Katie Taylor is the best woman's boxer on the planet (World Champ 5 or 6 times, Olympic Gold)

Have a look at this clip (her fight against the British boxer Natasha Jones in the recent Olympics - note that the arena was full of Irish people supporting Katie, and not British people as you would expect it to be in London).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H946qJbKzzU

All that shows is Ireland had few medal chances and the Irish supporters made a big effort to support one of their stars. Jones is hardly a household name in Britain and was a massive underdog for the fight, its not like she had legions of fans lining up to support her unlike Taylor, who by the way is indeed a brilliant fighter. I was in the Olympic park watching on the big screens when Taylor won gold and the support for her was massive from everyone there who coudl see and respect a class athlete.

Yep, Katie is a big fish in a small pond. Rory will be a small fish in a big pond.

By the way, GB had a couple of boxers that day - certainly the fight before Katie's fight had a British girl who got huge support as well.

Rory invades Rockall, declares independence and elects to play for Rockall at the Olympics.

Irish, Northern Irish, British (and the local puffins), not to mention the IOC accept King Rory the First of Rockall.

Rory loses the 4 way olympic bronze medal playoff to Max Keizo of the USA and finishes joint fourth with the top Irish and British golfers <insert names here>, all of whom ar ebest mates and go off together to drown their sorrows at the Copa, Copa Cobana.

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

super_realist wrote:What are you talking about Sin. I'm talking about people discarding their support for him simply because he changes something as trivial as his nationality, whether that be British or Oirish.
That would be an idiotic stance to take.

No idea who Katie Taylor is by the way.

There is nothing trivial about nationality. Ask any British person from Northern Ireland their opinion on it.

Katie Taylor is the best woman's boxer on the planet (World Champ 5 or 6 times, Olympic Gold)

Have a look at this clip (her fight against the British boxer Natasha Jones in the recent Olympics - note that the arena was full of Irish people supporting Katie, and not British people as you would expect it to be in London).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H946qJbKzzU

All that shows is Ireland had few medal chances and the Irish supporters made a big effort to support one of their stars. Jones is hardly a household name in Britain and was a massive underdog for the fight, its not like she had legions of fans lining up to support her unlike Taylor, who by the way is indeed a brilliant fighter. I was in the Olympic park watching on the big screens when Taylor won gold and the support for her was massive from everyone there who coudl see and respect a class athlete.

Yep, Katie is a big fish in a small pond. Rory will be a small fish in a big pond.

By the way, GB had a couple of boxers that day - certainly the fight before Katie's fight had a British girl who got huge support as well.

I think whatever pond he is in Rory will be a decent sized fish to be honest, hard to make a real comparison between him and Taylor. Golf is not womens boxing and the stand out player in the world will always get a huge following, especially if he's a young guy with a bit of charisma.

Sin é wrote:

Gareth_NI wrote:If Northern Ireland had their own Independant Golfing Union (or indeed entry for World Golf Cup) I feel we would not even be having this discussion whether McIlroy, Clarke or McDowell.

NI don't tend to do too well in sports that they have gone on their own way in (i.e., soccer) - don't underestimate the use of the collective resources of the island. For instance, would a NIGU have the resources to send young people to compete in tournaments around the world? Far more golfers in the ROI paying subs to the GUI.

The Republic have hardly been pulling up trees also, however granted you did qualify for Euro 2012.

Obviously one Golfing union for the island has it's benefits (that wasn't my reasoning behind a separate Union for NI), but its hardly surprising that far more golfers in the ROI pay subs you have a population pool 3 times the size. However, his success is hardly limited to GUI alone, whilst they may have contributed to a number of tournaments later in his teens/amateur career it was actually his family who primarily contributed from an extremely young age (7+) throughout his amateur career. Also don't underestimate the influence of his sponsors, peers and indeed management as Titleist and Chubbs et al also helped him along throughout his Amateur days.

All I was pointing out was if they/he had the option of competing for Ireland or Northern Ireland at say the Golf World Cup a considerable amount of assumption could already have taken place, or indeed if he choose to represent Ireland over Northern Ireland then that would be set in stone.

So people support Rory for other reasons to his golfing ability (ie., people prefer him to win over Tiger because he has more charisma, is younger etc. etc).

If it came to fighting it out for Gold against Luke Donald who would British people want to win for instance? Who would British people's first choice be to follow on the day?

With regard to that Katie Taylor fight - I thought Natasha Jones was a smashing girl (unlike some of Katie's later opponents) and I would love to see her do well, but just not against Katie.

Gareth_NI wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Gareth_NI wrote:If Northern Ireland had their own Independant Golfing Union (or indeed entry for World Golf Cup) I feel we would not even be having this discussion whether McIlroy, Clarke or McDowell.

NI don't tend to do too well in sports that they have gone on their own way in (i.e., soccer) - don't underestimate the use of the collective resources of the island. For instance, would a NIGU have the resources to send young people to compete in tournaments around the world? Far more golfers in the ROI paying subs to the GUI.

The Republic have hardly been pulling up trees also, however granted you did qualify for Euro 2012.

Obviously one Golfing union for the island has it's benefits (that wasn't my reasoning behind a separate Union for NI), but its hardly surprising that far more golfers in the ROI pay subs you have a population pool 3 times the size. However, his success is hardly limited to GUI alone, whilst they may have contributed to a number of tournaments later in his teens/amateur career it was actually his family who primarily contributed from an extremely young age (7+) throughout his amateur career. Also don't underestimate the influence of his sponsors, peers and indeed management as Titleist and Chubbs et al also helped him along throughout his Amateur days.

All I was pointing out was if they/he had the option of competing for Ireland or Northern Ireland at say the Golf World Cup a considerable amount of assumption could already have taken place, or indeed if he choose to represent Ireland over Northern Ireland then that would be set in stone.

My point is that without a Governing Body like the GUI to grow the game, lots of members who are interested in golf etc. who put time and money into developing golf, Rory might never have played golf in the first place as he wouldn't have had a golf club to play in. It would have been a major reason he has developed as a golfer in that he had easy access to top class courses from an early age.

Considering his background, he probably wouldn't have made it as a golfer in any other country in the world as its a rich man's game.

I think Rory will be a popular sportsman worldwide, he was a winning smile and maybe unlike (a younger) Tiger he is a bit fallable and people like that as well. Id like to see Donald win a major more than Id like to see Rory or Woods win another but thats a pro English thing for me.
I read Taylor has retired now, is that not the case ? She's certainly achieved everything she possibly could in her sport. Nicola Adams who won gold for Team GB seems like a great girl as well, I really enjoyed the womens boxing. more so than I did the mens to be honest.

Between Rory and Tiger I would actually prefer Tiger to win (not a popular choice I appreciate, but my opinion)

Between Rory and Luke I would prefer Rory to win (and I would stand by this in the olympics if Rory declared for Ireland, but I'm Manx not from the UK despite following GB at the olympics).

I think if Rory and Luke were both in Team GB, golfers would base their choice on the golf not the origin but many non-golfers might just think gold and silver for the medal table without strong preference over who won.

Rory will do fine without the unstinting love and devotion of the Irish that Katie Taylor gets

Taylor isn't retiring (some discussion about her going pro, but her father/coach doesn't want her to). I'd say she'll want to go to Brazil.

I'll add to Kwini's insights on my experiences and observations on being Irish-American in America (which I partly am) ...

As a child, I distinctly recall schoolyard banter: "What are you?" The kids of Italian descent (lots in my hometown) would say "I'm Italian", the kids from Polish or German descent would then chime in as would the kids from Irish descent. (I'm a mutt, but mostly German, Scandinavian and Irish). So, we all KNEW we were Americans (which I am by birth, although my father was an immigrant), but also had a strong affinity for another culture (if in name only), and would defend our food and customs intensely at times.

My wife is nearly 100% Irish. She grew up in Havertown, PA (as reported: The neighborhood takes pride in its distinct Irish heritage and is home to many Irish bars and shops. Many locals still reverentially (and only half-jokingly) refer to Havertown as the "33rd county" (of Ireland). For these reasons the neighborhood remains a very popular destination for Irish immigrants.)

My wife, like so many of her friends, took a family trip to Ireland (relatives in Donegal and Cork). She tells me her Mother and Father were pretty emotional about "finally" getting to the homeland. It took a lot of money and time to make it happen (Yanks typically don't give employees much vacation). To a crass or cynical observer I'm sure my wife's family was viewed as somewhat unsophisticated, overly romantic ... but I assure you it was heartfelt and the Irish (and I'm sure other nationalities) Pride runs very deep for many Irish Americans.

But to Kwini's point about socialism ... NO THANKS!

Why are American's so proud of ancient heritage though. Is it that bad to be an American?

I DID say "perceived socialism", in actual fact usually nothing of the sort, just respect for human values!

Super - It's not an either/or ... the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Kwin - I hear ya, and agree!

It has always been quite straight foreward for me. I was born in England, of English parents. I think I have a Scottish great grandfather, but apart from that I am English which means my nationality is British, because England is a country and not a nation. So if I were to represent anyone it would be England in the commonwealth games and GB&NI in the Oylmpics.

Of course, the major obstacle to me representing anyone is LACK OF TALENT!

American's must be the only ones who consider themselves a combination of both.

It's funny when you meet an american though.
"Hey, i'm Skawwwtish", Do you know John Smith, he's about this high"

super_realist wrote:Why are American's so proud of ancient heritage though. Is it that bad to be an American?

What are you realist? And are you proud of it?

Being catholic (and discriminated against) in a protestant society would also be a reason why they would cling to their Irish (catholic) heritage. (ie, no blacks or Irish wanted). Plenty of Ulster-Scots (presbyterian) emigrated to the US, but you don't hear anything much from them as they would have just merged into society there. Similar situation with the jews and how powerful a political lobby they are with regard to Israel in the US.

JFK being elected Pres. of the US (first catholic president) was as big as Obama being the first black american pres. at the time.

When Notre Dame (a catholic university) played here a few weeks ago, before the game they had a public mass for 5,000 in Dublin.

You only have to look at NI to see a similar issue of protestants not blending in with the majority of the island.

I'm from Scotland Secret, but am neither proud nor care about my nationality.

It means nothing at all to me.

Bringing religion into things is borderline sectionable.

super_realist wrote:Why are American's so proud of ancient heritage though. Is it that bad to be an American?

The U.S. is just such a young country that a lot of the ties to other countries are still relevent...............many people have some interest in their forefathers/family tree

super_realist wrote:I'm from Scotland Secret, but am neither proud nor care about my nationality.

It means nothing at all to me.

There you go..that's the answer to your American question. It's a big Nation, it has many people from many different ethnical groups. Now, there are many of them who cling to their Heritage - yes. And there are probably more of them who don't give a damn....we only hear about and comment on the showy ones. America isn't all star-spangled parades and foggy eyed folk memories of their 'home' country - but it's big enough for it to have enough of them to be seen. The majority just go to work, get paid and go to a movie or watch TV. Same for Scotland..some wear their kilts and others, like you, don't care.

super_realist wrote:I'm from Scotland Secret, but am neither proud nor care about my nationality.

It means nothing at all to me.

Bringing religion into things is borderline sectionable.

I feel sorry for you that you have no sense of belonging to your native land. Do you not feel any afinity to fellow countrymen when you hear Scotland The Brave?

With regard to religion - its only sectionable if you don't acknowledge and respect the belief of others.

I watched the movie The Blind Side last night - at one stage Mike Oher's adopted mother threatened a young thug that if he didn't behave she would get the District Attorney after him as she went to the same prayer meeting as the DA!

I cringe when I hear Scotland The Brave or that dirge Flower of Scotland. Being overly patriotic is a sign of insecurity as far as I can see.

There isn't much to be proud of coming from Scotland, certainly not in the last 20 years, and it will be even worse should Salmond and his anti English brigade tap into the consciousness of the uneducated.

If you believe in fairies, you are considered mad. Can't see any difference to that and religion.

Americans in general are very patriotic towards America - and not one bit insecure. They are a very proud nation.

I'm not big into religion myself either - but I respect those who are.

I'm happy for people to believe in what they want, but I think they are mad, and wasting their time.

Personally I wouldnt say I was particularly proud to be English or British (though I was quite proud of the job we made of hosting the Olympics). I guess when it comes down to it I support British and English sportsmen because I find sport to be fairly boring if I dont have some kind of stake in who wins and supporting the team of the country you are born/llive in is the obvious way to go.
Same way I'll always be a Sunderland fan, nothing to do with being proud of my region or of being a northerner, can honestly say I couldnt give a monkeys about that, just a case of them being my team and I dont feel I can change that even if I wanted to....and manys the time I have wished that I could !!

super-realist - one thing you can be proud of and that is Scotland's landscape. It is truly magical and very unique.

Not unique. Looks like lots of places.
It's more the people and attitude I don't want to be like or part of.