McIlroy Declares for Britain?

First topic message reminder :

Rory McIlroy has declared "I’ve always felt more British than Irish", "Maybe it is the way I was brought up, I don’t know, but I have always felt more of a connection with the UK than with Ireland". This seems like a pretty strong indication to me that McIlroy will represent Team GB at the Olympics in 4 years. I think its a smart move to declare his allegiance early and in good time rather than letting the media make a storm in a tea cup about the whole issue in 4 years time close to the games.

GunsGerms wrote:the Olympic charter doesnt allow competitors to hold dual nationality. Therefore being an independant Olympic athlete may be an option open to Rory McIlroy.

In all likelihood he will choose to represent Britain however, this might be an option if he just wants to represent himself and avoid all debate.

Never heard of the independent olympic athlete thing. If that was the case, NI/Scotland/Wales would surely have multiple athletes doing it.

From what I understand, each country has an Olympic Council and effectively you represent that Olympic Council. There was a former Olympic Polish canoeist (Andrzej Jezierski) now living in Cork representing Ireland in this year's Olympics so you probably just need to be a citizen of the country that you want to represent.

edit: He hadn't represented Poland in the Olympics - just world & European championships.

GunsGerms wrote:the Olympic charter doesnt allow competitors to hold dual nationality. Therefore being an independant Olympic athlete may be an option open to Rory McIlroy.

In all likelyhood he will choose to represent Britain however, this might be an option if he just wants to represent himself and avoid all debate.

So everyone from NI who has represented Team GB at the Olympics has to give up their Eire passport or their right to hold one ?
I cant see how the independant athlete category could apply to Coco, its set up for truly exceptional cases, not for when a guy has two perfectly reasonable options but for whatever reasons, commercial or diplomatic or both, doesnt want to be seen to make a choice.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:the Olympic charter doesnt allow competitors to hold dual nationality. Therefore being an independant Olympic athlete may be an option open to Rory McIlroy.

In all likelihood he will choose to represent Britain however, this might be an option if he just wants to represent himself and avoid all debate.

Never heard of the independent olympic athlete thing. If that was the case, NI/Scotland/Wales would surely have multiple athletes doing it.

From what I understand, each country has an Olympic Council and effectively you represent that Olympic Council. There was a former Olympic Polish canoeist (Andrzej Jezierski) now living in Cork representing Ireland in this year's Olympics so you probably just need to be a citizen of the country that you want to represent.

edit: He hadn't represented Poland in the Olympics - just world & European championships.

NI/Scotland/Wales are not countries. Rory could have a ROI and British passport hence the potential dual nationality.

Diggers wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:the Olympic charter doesnt allow competitors to hold dual nationality. Therefore being an independant Olympic athlete may be an option open to Rory McIlroy.

In all likelyhood he will choose to represent Britain however, this might be an option if he just wants to represent himself and avoid all debate.

So everyone from NI who has represented Team GB at the Olympics has to give up their Eire passport or their right to hold one ?
I cant see how the independant athlete category could apply to Coco, its set up for truly exceptional cases, not for when a guy has two perfectly reasonable options but for whatever reasons, commercial or diplomatic or both, doesnt want to be seen to make a choice.

I dont know the ins and outs of it. I am just speculating.

"NI/Scotland/Wales are not countries. Rory could have a ROI and British passport hence the potential dual nationality."

I think you'll find they are countries, what they are not is Nations..

Don't think they are countries in either the Olympic or political sense.

No I don't think it is anywhere near complex at all. For sure Jason Smyth (who is from a few miles down the road from me) and Michael McKillop had no trouble.

Jason Smyth even got Royal mail to give him a gold post box (after much red tape and wrangling with RM).

More NI athletes have represented Ireland than GB in the Olympics. Its very much the norm and not a big deal at all.

Its only a big story here because of Mcilroys profile.

Rods, most would suspect that a lot of those NI athletes who would end up representing Ireland are doing it because they know they won't make the GB team

Ultimately the only debate is about timing. Make a choice now and hopefully bury it or just leave it and have people speculate for 4 years every time the subject comes up. Clearly he has gone for the latter option, personally I dont agree thats the right choice but its probably the easy one so no suprise him and his management have taken it.

Some maybe Sin but in fairness you could say the same about the likes of Mark Lawrenson and Andy Townsend in the soccerball....

golfermartin wrote:"NI/Scotland/Wales are not countries. Rory could have a ROI and British passport hence the potential dual nationality."

I think you'll find they are countries, what they are not is Nations..

I think you understood my point. You cant have a Welsh, Scottish or NI passport.

Im still gutted Lawro never played for England, Ive certainly never thought that about Anday Townsend though. At his peak Lawro was probably the best player in the 1st Division, certainly one of them. Townsend....wasnt.

rodders wrote:Some maybe Sin but in fairness you could say the same about the likes of Mark Lawrenson and Andy Townsend in the soccerball....

They weren't the only ones who choose Ireland (or some other country other than the one they grew up in) because it was a good career move.

The UK (GB & NI) is a sovereign state, as is Ireland. The others, including England are countries but not sovereign states. Simple.

Where it gets complicated is everyone in NI is entitled to an Irish passport and citizenship under the terms of the 1994 Good Friday agreement.

Actually its all still simple enough but makes for interesting debates come Olympic time

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Some maybe Sin but in fairness you could say the same about the likes of Mark Lawrenson and Andy Townsend in the soccerball....

They weren't the only ones who choose Ireland (or some other country other than the one they grew up in) because it was a good career move.

No they weren't sin and ultimately every athletes main responsibility is to themselves and to maximise their careers. Its easy to sit and judge others but if its your livelyhood then you have to do whats best for you.

In terms of McIlroy, well financially he has no worries but its easy to sit down in Dublin or Cork and make generalisations. He has to think about his family in Holywood and how his descision might affect them as well as all sorts of factors.

One thing I'm sure of is that McIlroy will give his all to win Gold whoever he plays for.

rodders wrote:The UK (GB & NI) is a sovereign state, as is Ireland. The others, including England are countries but not sovereign states. Simple.

Where it gets complicated is everyone in NI is entitled to an Irish passport and citizenship under the terms of the 1994 Good Friday agreement.

Actually its all still simple enough but makes for interesting debates come Olympic time

Rods, anyone born in the island of Ireland was always entitled to Irish citizenship - nothing to do with the GFA.

Just noticed that the Olympic Council of Ireland considers itself to represent the island of Ireland and actually objected in 2004 to the British Olympic Council changing its name to Team GB & NI!

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Some maybe Sin but in fairness you could say the same about the likes of Mark Lawrenson and Andy Townsend in the soccerball....

They weren't the only ones who choose Ireland (or some other country other than the one they grew up in) because it was a good career move.

No they weren't sin and ultimately every athletes main responsibility is to themselves and to maximise their careers. Its easy to sit and judge others but if its your livelyhood then you have to do whats best for you.

In terms of McIlroy, well financially he has no worries but its easy to sit down in Dublin or Cork and make generalisations. He has to think about his family in Holywood and how his descision might affect them as well as all sorts of factors.

One thing I'm sure of is that McIlroy will give his all to win Gold whoever he plays for.

Fair enough about doing whats best for your career in professional sport (soccer/rugby) - but the Olympics is meant to be for amateurs.

If Rory was worried about his family and how it might affect them in Holywood, he would have stayed quiet about how he felt. He didn't think twice about dumping his local, longterm girlfriend (which might have upset a few locals the way he did it so publicly) and anyway, he lives mostly in the US now.

No one would be surprised if he represented Ireland in the Olympics considering he has done it before, though I have a funny notion that he will probably end up representing the US.

He may well Sin, but I suspect he will go where GMAC goes.

I stand corrected on the reference to the GFA. I know the citizenship act was ammended post this, regarding NI, but am not sure on the exact details. Perhaps just wording.

Why on earth would be represent the US ?
Imagine the scenario that he is a dominant go to man for Europe in the RC , their face of the tournament....but he happens to compete for the States in the Olympics. Never gonna happen in a million years.

A pity Rory didn't follow Gmac's lead with how to deal with the question. Rory can be very immature at times. I'd love to know what JP & Conor Ridge think of the situation.

Diggers wrote:Why on earth would be represent the US ?
Imagine the scenario that he is a dominant go to man for Europe in the RC , their face of the tournament....but he happens to compete for the States in the Olympics. Never gonna happen in a million years.

Rory's only loyalty is to himself. He could be playing Ryder Cup for the US as well. The guy lives in the US. The guy likes the US. He likes playing golf in the US. Next step will be playing for the US.

(I seem to remember that he wasn't all that pushed about playing Ryder Cup in the first place).

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No one would be surprised if he represented Ireland in the Olympics considering he has done it before, though I have a funny notion that he will probably end up representing the US.

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any small bit of credibility any of your posts may have had are now gone!

Sin é wrote:A pity Rory didn't follow Gmac's lead with how to deal with the question. Rory can be very immature at times. I'd love to know what JP & Conor Ridge think of the situation.

He can but he is still only 23.

He can Sin but he's 22 so that's to be expected. I think people should cut him a bit of slack at times as he's going to make mistakes. GMAC is a fair bit older so its an unfair comparision.

Look there's very view people who have come from Ireland (North or South) and risen to the very top of their sports. I think we should all support this guy and feel proud.

Irrespective of whether he feels british or represents GB in the Olympics he's a product of the Irish golfing system and is clearly proud of his roots.

Anyway enough from me on this. Later

hend085 wrote:

No one would be surprised if he represented Ireland in the Olympics considering he has done it before, though I have a funny notion that he will probably end up representing the US.

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any small bit of credibility any of your posts may have had are now gone![/quote]

Just to clarify - he has represented Ireland in other competitions - not that he has represented Ireland in the Olympics.

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:Why on earth would be represent the US ?
Imagine the scenario that he is a dominant go to man for Europe in the RC , their face of the tournament....but he happens to compete for the States in the Olympics. Never gonna happen in a million years.

Rory's only loyalty is to himself. He could be playing Ryder Cup for the US as well. The guy lives in the US. The guy likes the US. He likes playing golf in the US. Next step will be playing for the US.

(I seem to remember that he wasn't all that pushed about playing Ryder Cup in the first place).

Nope, cant see it or even remotely see the point in it for any party.

rodders wrote:He can Sin but he's 22 so that's to be expected. I think people should cut him a bit of slack at times as he's going to make mistakes. GMAC is a fair bit older so its an unfair comparision.

Look there's very view people who have come from Ireland (North or South) and risen to the very top of their sports. I think we should all support this guy and feel proud.

Irrespective of whether he feels british or represents GB in the Olympics he's a product of the Irish golfing system and is clearly proud of his roots.

Anyway enough from me on this. Later

His turning his back on Irish golf! He clearly isn't proud of his Irish golfing roots.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:He can Sin but he's 22 so that's to be expected. I think people should cut him a bit of slack at times as he's going to make mistakes. GMAC is a fair bit older so its an unfair comparision.

Look there's very view people who have come from Ireland (North or South) and risen to the very top of their sports. I think we should all support this guy and feel proud.

Irrespective of whether he feels british or represents GB in the Olympics he's a product of the Irish golfing system and is clearly proud of his roots.

Anyway enough from me on this. Later

His turning his back on Irish golf! He clearly isn't proud of his Irish golfing roots.

Or he just has a stronger pull towards his British heritage. It doesnt have to mean he isnt proud be Irish, thats just a completely blinkered view.

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:Why on earth would be represent the US ?
Imagine the scenario that he is a dominant go to man for Europe in the RC , their face of the tournament....but he happens to compete for the States in the Olympics. Never gonna happen in a million years.

Rory's only loyalty is to himself. He could be playing Ryder Cup for the US as well. The guy lives in the US. The guy likes the US. He likes playing golf in the US. Next step will be playing for the US.

(I seem to remember that he wasn't all that pushed about playing Ryder Cup in the first place).

Nope, cant see it or even remotely see the point in it for any party.

You can't see any point in it for any party?

As an adopted American, he'd take over Tiger's throne commercially for starters.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:He can Sin but he's 22 so that's to be expected. I think people should cut him a bit of slack at times as he's going to make mistakes. GMAC is a fair bit older so its an unfair comparision.

Look there's very view people who have come from Ireland (North or South) and risen to the very top of their sports. I think we should all support this guy and feel proud.

Irrespective of whether he feels british or represents GB in the Olympics he's a product of the Irish golfing system and is clearly proud of his roots.

Anyway enough from me on this. Later

His turning his back on Irish golf! He clearly isn't proud of his Irish golfing roots.

He already has already acknowledged that he is a proud product of Irish golf. He feels though his national identity is British.

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:Why on earth would be represent the US ?
Imagine the scenario that he is a dominant go to man for Europe in the RC , their face of the tournament....but he happens to compete for the States in the Olympics. Never gonna happen in a million years.

Rory's only loyalty is to himself. He could be playing Ryder Cup for the US as well. The guy lives in the US. The guy likes the US. He likes playing golf in the US. Next step will be playing for the US.

(I seem to remember that he wasn't all that pushed about playing Ryder Cup in the first place).

Nope, cant see it or even remotely see the point in it for any party.

You can't see any point in it for any party?

As an adopted American, he'd take over Tiger's throne commercially for starters.

He can make that money anyway, Federer makes plenty of cash being Swiss. No reason to believe that just because Rory suddenly becomes a plastic yank sponsors will fall over him even more than they do already. And again its the Asian and Arab market that provides a lot of the big bucks these days, not just the States.

Im pretty sure he is not eligable to represent the US in the Ryder cup. He would need to be a US citizen by age 18 to represent the US in the Ryder cup.

Carl Pettersson the US based Swede found himself recently in a similar predicament.

http://www.espn.co.uk/golf/sport/story/146498.html

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:He can Sin but he's 22 so that's to be expected. I think people should cut him a bit of slack at times as he's going to make mistakes. GMAC is a fair bit older so its an unfair comparision.

Look there's very view people who have come from Ireland (North or South) and risen to the very top of their sports. I think we should all support this guy and feel proud.

Irrespective of whether he feels british or represents GB in the Olympics he's a product of the Irish golfing system and is clearly proud of his roots.

Anyway enough from me on this. Later

His turning his back on Irish golf! He clearly isn't proud of his Irish golfing roots.

Or he just has a stronger pull towards his British heritage. It doesnt have to mean he isnt proud be Irish, thats just a completely blinkered view.

I'm not the only one who would interpret this as turning his back on Irish golf. If it was such an easy call, why is it such a big deal?

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:He can Sin but he's 22 so that's to be expected. I think people should cut him a bit of slack at times as he's going to make mistakes. GMAC is a fair bit older so its an unfair comparision.

Look there's very view people who have come from Ireland (North or South) and risen to the very top of their sports. I think we should all support this guy and feel proud.

Irrespective of whether he feels british or represents GB in the Olympics he's a product of the Irish golfing system and is clearly proud of his roots.

Anyway enough from me on this. Later

His turning his back on Irish golf! He clearly isn't proud of his Irish golfing roots.

Or he just has a stronger pull towards his British heritage. It doesnt have to mean he isnt proud be Irish, thats just a completely blinkered view.

I'm not the only one who would interpret this as turning his back on Irish golf. If it was such an easy call, why is it such a big deal?

Maybe because people like you see it as him being some sort of traitor rather than just having a stronger preference one way than the other.

It's not an easy call that's what I've been trying to tell you!

And he hasn't made a descision!

GunsGerms wrote:Im pretty sure he is not eligable to represent the US in the Ryder cup. He would need to be a US citizen by age 18 to represent the US in the Ryder cup.

Carl Pettersson the US based Swede found himself recently in a similar predicament.

http://www.espn.co.uk/golf/sport/story/146498.html

They only recently changed that rule from being born in the US to being a citizen since 18. They can change that as well if they wanted to.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Im pretty sure he is not eligable to represent the US in the Ryder cup. He would need to be a US citizen by age 18 to represent the US in the Ryder cup.

Carl Pettersson the US based Swede found himself recently in a similar predicament.

http://www.espn.co.uk/golf/sport/story/146498.html

They only recently changed that rule from being born in the US to being a citizen since 18. They can change that as well if they wanted to.

Strewth, we are changing lots of things to accomodate this fantasy of Rory suddenly deciding to play for the US.
Donald, Poulter Rose and Casey all live over there as well and Westwood is moving over for 2013. The Yanks could have a seriously good RC Team in 2014.

And Europe could change its rules to allow all of the Aussies and maybe the reject Yanks to play for them, too. This really is getting into fantasy land!!

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:He can Sin but he's 22 so that's to be expected. I think people should cut him a bit of slack at times as he's going to make mistakes. GMAC is a fair bit older so its an unfair comparision.

Look there's very view people who have come from Ireland (North or South) and risen to the very top of their sports. I think we should all support this guy and feel proud.

Irrespective of whether he feels british or represents GB in the Olympics he's a product of the Irish golfing system and is clearly proud of his roots.

Anyway enough from me on this. Later

His turning his back on Irish golf! He clearly isn't proud of his Irish golfing roots.

Or he just has a stronger pull towards his British heritage. It doesnt have to mean he isnt proud be Irish, thats just a completely blinkered view.

I'm not the only one who would interpret this as turning his back on Irish golf. If it was such an easy call, why is it such a big deal?

Maybe because people like you see it as him being some sort of traitor rather than just having a stronger preference one way than the other.

Why would he care what I think? (He shouldn't care). I don't mind him not representing Ireland - its up to him. Wish he'd get off the fence though.

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Im pretty sure he is not eligable to represent the US in the Ryder cup. He would need to be a US citizen by age 18 to represent the US in the Ryder cup.

Carl Pettersson the US based Swede found himself recently in a similar predicament.

http://www.espn.co.uk/golf/sport/story/146498.html

They only recently changed that rule from being born in the US to being a citizen since 18. They can change that as well if they wanted to.

Strewth, we are changing lots of things to accomodate this fantasy of Rory suddenly deciding to play for the US.
Donald, Poulter Rose and Casey all live over there as well and Westwood is moving over for 2013. The Yanks could have a seriously good RC Team in 2014.

'We' are not changing anything. The US Ryder Cup team changed the rule in 2002 (without much fanfare). I doubt if it would cause much of a problem if they were to change that to 25, 27 or 30 !

It won't be 2014 - I'd say it takes longer than 2 years to get US citizenship!

He doesnt care what you think in isolation, its the collective view that he will probably take into account.
I also wish he'd get off the fence but dont remotely feel he will be letting anyone down either way. Its just one of those things in life.

Sin é wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Im pretty sure he is not eligable to represent the US in the Ryder cup. He would need to be a US citizen by age 18 to represent the US in the Ryder cup.

Carl Pettersson the US based Swede found himself recently in a similar predicament.

http://www.espn.co.uk/golf/sport/story/146498.html

They only recently changed that rule from being born in the US to being a citizen since 18. They can change that as well if they wanted to.

Strewth, we are changing lots of things to accomodate this fantasy of Rory suddenly deciding to play for the US.
Donald, Poulter Rose and Casey all live over there as well and Westwood is moving over for 2013. The Yanks could have a seriously good RC Team in 2014.

'We' are not changing anything. The US Ryder Cup team changed the rule in 2002 (without much fanfare). I doubt if it would cause much of a problem if they were to change that to 25, 27 or 30 !

It won't be 2014 - I'd say it takes longer than 2 years to get US citizenship!

It certainly wont be 2014 or indeed ever. It ranks as one of the most bizarre suggestions Ive seen on these boards and that really takes some doing. Funny though.

golfermartin wrote:And Europe could change its rules to allow all of the Aussies and maybe the reject Yanks to play for them, too. This really is getting into fantasy land!!

Yes, they could change the rules to accommodate anyone they wanted to. Up to fairly recently (1979) only players from Britain & Ireland competed in it.

Diggers wrote:He doesnt care what you think in isolation, its the collective view that he will probably take into account.
I also wish he'd get off the fence but dont remotely feel he will be letting anyone down either way. Its just one of those things in life.

And why should he worry about the collective view? Looks like to me he wants his bread buttered on both sides.

To play for the US, you have to be a US citizen on your 18th birthday (just ask fat Carl Peterson) so too late for McIlroy and your hairbrained scheme.

As far as anyone knows Mcilroy isn't a bible thumper either so I doubt its an ecumenical question as to who he plays for. He'll obviously go with Britain anyway though.

super_realist wrote:To play for the US, you have to be a US citizen on your 18th birthday (just ask fat Carl Peterson) so too late for McIlroy and your hairbrained scheme.

As far as anyone knows Mcilroy isn't a bible thumper either so I doubt its an ecumenical question as to who he plays for. He'll obviously go with Britain anyway though.

10 years ago (2002) you had to be born in the US to make the Ryder Cup Team. They changed the rule then, they can change it again if they wanted to.

They actually say in that linked article that Pettersson could legally challenge the Ryder Cup ruling!

Any bible thumpers with Irish connections come from McIlroy's neck of the wood - one of the better known ones would be Dr Ian Paisley.

Dr Paisley is from Ballymena co Antrim, McIlroy is from Holywood county Down.

Hardly from the same neck of the woods .

There was a big interview with McIlroy in the Times today. He said they although he was officially a Carholic he couldnt remember the last time he attended mass, it clearly holds as much interest for him as it does for most blokes whose official classification is probably Christian....zilch.

And how does that make Mcilroy a bible thumper?

You sound like a broken record. why don't you make Mcilroys decision for him seeing as you think you know such about it.

If Mcilroy cared about his so called religion would he be knocking off wozniaki outside of wedlock?
He's just a normal lad who is going to choose to play for the bigger more significant country rather than a load of yokels.

All countries are just meaningless entities in a great big thing what is called the world, innit?

No country, no state, no religion, no parking, no 1 in the charts...just the world and the "lovely" people what is in it.

Nice.