McIlroy Declares for Britain?

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Rory McIlroy has declared "I’ve always felt more British than Irish", "Maybe it is the way I was brought up, I don’t know, but I have always felt more of a connection with the UK than with Ireland". This seems like a pretty strong indication to me that McIlroy will represent Team GB at the Olympics in 4 years. I think its a smart move to declare his allegiance early and in good time rather than letting the media make a storm in a tea cup about the whole issue in 4 years time close to the games.

They really arent very different, a dialect is defined as regional or social variety of language distinguished by pronounciation or grammar or vocabulary. The lines are very blurred between accents and dialects.

super_realist wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Anyone who dumps something called One Direction (yes, with a token Irish dumpling onboard) on another country deserves the title of villain

Ahem, Boyzone, Westlife, U2, Bewitched.

Those are equally bad.

You're in charge of your own record collection, super. If you're telling me Ahem, Boyzone, Westlife and Bewitched are bands, well I suppose I better believe you.

SecretFly wrote:

super_realist wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Anyone who dumps something called One Direction (yes, with a token Irish dumpling onboard) on another country deserves the title of villain

Ahem, Boyzone, Westlife, U2, Bewitched.

Those are equally bad.

You're in charge of your own record collection, super. If you're telling me Ahem, Boyzone, Westlife and Bewitched are bands, well I suppose I better believe you.

I didn't say they were bands, just that Ireland is responsible for rather a lot of criminal records too, partly cashing in on the cheeky chappy "craic" I think.
Walsh/Cowell/Bono ought to be shot.

I'm actually surprised no one has ever had an attempt at disposing of Bono.

Ireland and Britain are very small countries in terms of area yet the diversity of accent from town to town can be astonishingly different given their proximity to one another. This isnt so much the case in other countries where you might have to travel further a field to hear such variety in accent. Different dialects of English dont really exist within Britian and Ireland, certainly Ireland anyway.

Guns, I'm sure if we were to become as familiar with other countries as we are about the ones we live in I think there would be a pretty wide diversity of accents/dialects.

super_realist wrote:
Walsh/Cowell/Bono ought to be shot.

I'm actually surprised no one has ever had an attempt at disposing of Bono.

Did Cowell put U2 on the map too? "It's a 'Yes' from me lads". All's forgiven Cowell.

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland and Britain are very small countries in terms of area yet the diversity of accent from town to town can be astonishingly different given their proximity to one another. This isnt so much the case in other countries where you might have to travel further a field to hear such variety in accent. Different dialects of English dont really exist within Britian and Ireland, certainly Ireland anyway.

Like what other countries, do you know the regional variations in every country or ratger just assume the UK is somehow unique ? You'd have to be fluent in a lot of languages to know that.
Again, definition between dialect and accent is very loose, I'd argue that a Geordie accent can easily be defined as a dialect.

Doesn't a dialect have its own words, whereas an accent is merely the different pronunciation of the same words?

A dialect is distinguished by its vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation (phonology, including prosody). Where a distinction can be made only in terms of pronunciation, the term accent is appropriate, not dialect.

Sorry for quoting wikipedia, but it isn't all horsesh1t.

kwinigolfer wrote:...Is he as much of a witless pr1ck that he comes across as?...

Yes, unfortunately. With any luck he'll get seriously caught up in the phone hacking/Leveson stuff. Smug little piece of ordure.

There are plenty of unique words in a Geordie accent, marra being an example meaning good friend.

Diggers wrote:There are plenty of unique words in a Geordie accent, marra being an example meaning good friend.

Wouldn't Geordie be considered a dialect and reasons why you often hear them referred to as the Geordie Nation as most nations have their own language and the Geordies are seen as a different tribe to other English people.

Diggers wrote:There are plenty of unique words in a Geordie accent, marra being an example meaning good friend.

Guess that makes it a dialect then. I was trying to think of geordie words, but could only come up with mackem. As that's supposedly a distortion of 'make them', referring to the Sunderland shipbuilders, it's probably not considered a word as such.

Diggers wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland and Britain are very small countries in terms of area yet the diversity of accent from town to town can be astonishingly different given their proximity to one another. This isnt so much the case in other countries where you might have to travel further a field to hear such variety in accent. Different dialects of English dont really exist within Britian and Ireland, certainly Ireland anyway.

Like what other countries, do you know the regional variations in every country or ratger just assume the UK is somehow unique ? You'd have to be fluent in a lot of languages to know that.
Again, definition between dialect and accent is very loose, I'd argue that a Geordie accent can easily be defined as a dialect.

-I have studied linguistics.
-I am fluent is Spanish and have lived there for long enough to identify accents. They dont have as great a variety of accents compared to the UK and Ireland though they do have a greater variety of languages and dialects.
-I have lived in Lithuania. They dont have as great a variety of accents at all. Not even close.
-I have lived in Australia, I have dual nationality. They dont have as great a variety of accents either from my experience.

Diggers wrote:There are plenty of unique words in a Geordie accent, marra being an example meaning good friend.

There is a difference between colloquialisms and dialicts. I'm guessing Marra isnt a real word.

You dont think there is a great variety of accent in Australia, seriously ? Ive just got back from there this week, was in Brisbane and Sydney and the difference in accents is very noticeable. Part of the reason a lot of Brits dont want to move from Sydney is because of the stronger accents there kids might pick up elsewhere Every city and region has a different accent, there just happens to be a lot of space between the various cities.
Cant speak for Spain or Lithuania but its hardly a test case youve put together there.
Dialect, accent, its pretty much semantics in most cases.

Is not "ge outa u skull" geordie for "im having a few quiet drinks" ?

John Cregan wrote:Is not "ge outa u skull" geordie for "im having a few quiet drinks" ?

I thought that was Glaswegian....

Diggers wrote:You dont think there is a great variety of accent in Australia, seriously ? Ive just got back from there this week, was in Brisbane and Sydney and the difference in accents is very noticeable. Part of the reason a lot of Brits dont want to move from Sydney is because of the stronger accents there kids might pick up elsewhere Every city and region has a different accent, there just happens to be a lot of space between the various cities.
Cant speak for Spain or Lithuania but its hardly a test case youve put together there.
Dialect, accent, its pretty much semantics in most cases.

Diggers you are missing the point. Yes there are different accents in Australia yet not the same variety within such small sub populations as in the UK and Ireland. I am not stating this as fact this is just my experience based on the reasons I have already given.

Im not missing the point at all, I just think you are wrong. Thats quite a different thing altogether.

Is a 'strong' accent evidence of thickness?

Brits don't want to move from Sydney because their kids will pick up stronger accents? Is that their British kids that they don't want marked by an Aussie accent (because they intend going back home in time) or is it their Aussie born kids who would have an accent natural to them, even if it was 'strong'?

So accents do distinguish status afterall?

Diggers wrote:Im not missing the point at all, I just think you are wrong. Thats quite a different thing altogether.

I guess you see what you want to see.

Its not that accents distinguish status as a hard and fast rule, its that certain facets of society will deem to see it that way.

GunsGerms wrote:

Diggers wrote:Im not missing the point at all, I just think you are wrong. Thats quite a different thing altogether.

I guess you see what you want to see.

Or hear what you want to hear.

Think you killed that thread Diggers.

A mercy killing Id say. Its been eclectic though......

I personally think Rory's accent is more Irish than British.......................

NO! Don't start it all again - it's over!!! Just a joke! Let it lie. Please let it lie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cpLMwTFYOE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

All this reminded me of AliG in NI.

AliG-Are you Irish?
Sammy Wilson(DUP)-No I'm British.
AliG-Is you on holidays or something?

Gaelic. Is that a batty language or something?

He has backtracked now when he realised he was going to alienate people who "call themselves Irish".

"I think it just really hit home with me how important it is for a lot of people and how important my success has been to them.

"Obviously, I've had a lot of support from all sides - from people that call themselves Irish, from Northern Irish, to the whole of the UK, to people over here in the States.

"It just hit home with me at how my success is welcomed by everyone. It would be terrible for me to nearly segregate myself from one of those groups that supports me so much.

"It's four years away - I still have a bit of time to decide. But, I'm very, very appreciative and very grateful of the support that I get from everyone.

"It's great that I get so much support. There are not many people in my position that have to go through what I might have to go through in four years' time, but it is what it is.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/golf/american-and-european-tour/2012/0919/338249-mcilroy-reassessing-olympic-position/

Saw that. My guess is he won't bother with the Olympics

When he is on course, How does he know who is Oirish and who is British (or any other nationality) when he's hearing the crowd (unless of course they pre-cursor their cheers with "to be sure to be sure", "where's me lucky charms" or "top o the mornin'"), and how petty would either side be if they stopped cheering for him simply because he changed his nationality?

"Alienating", what a stupid phrase to use. McIlroy has never come across as all that bright, but I think he's overemphasising his own importance, the role nationality plays in those who like him and whether golfers even have a recognised "fan base" other than a few armchair sycophants. It is golf after all, not football, and tribalism isn't really a part of it.

Harrington is well liked the world over, regardless that he's a fully paid up Irishman, doesn't seem to bother anyone. While I doubt if Luke Donald decided he was Scottish instead of English that anyone would bother themselves with worry or ditch their liking for him.

It's not like there is a Rory McIlroy stadium that he makes money per cod-oirish spectator or that he'll lose out financially should he decide he's British after all. None of his main sponsors are Irish related either and I'm pretty sure he isn't taking appearance money from Irish-American delegates simply because he comes from the "old-country", so not sure who exactly would be "alienated".

This is a storm in a tea cup and very very silly.

The way it works SR is like this. For instance, Rory's main sponsor, Jumeirah is in the hospitality industry and they won't want Rory alienating any segment of their potential market (40m Americans claim to be Irish for starters) by rejecting his nationality (rather than a simple claim to be British)

Rory is lucky that the President & CEO of Jumeirah is an Irishman (Gerald Lawless) who will probably be understanding. It will be interesting to see if they renew their sponsorship of him the next time though after that faux pas.

You really think an Irish-American will change their hotel preference on the basis that McIlroy decides to play under the Union flag instead of the Irish.
I sincerely doubt anyone (except you perhaps) would be quite so childish.

30 Million Americans claim to be Scottish too. I dread to think what would happen to the Rado watch market in America should Andy Murray switch to being English.

Really, I have never heard so much crap in my life.
I bet Jumeirah must be really filling their pants at the collective threat of Irish Americans (of which < 30% have passports, and of which even less will even know where dubai is let alone go there) will withdraw their support?

How many people are actually loyal to the brands endorsed by their favourite sports stars? Honestly. You really are scraping the barrel.
If Irish American's really cared, they'd make sure that McIlroy was sponsored by Ma Fitzgerald's Irish Stew (tastes just like the old country) rather than a Dubai based company.

Jeebus lads Rory can't win. Give the guy a break.

He hasn't backed tracked because he hasn't made a descision. Theres no descision to be made at this stage because he hasn't made either team.

To be honest I think a few people here, and I mean Irish people, would rather he declared for GB so they can have a pop at him.

I get that impression too Rodders, No one in the UK cares who he plays for, they're just delighted to see such a good player around in the game, it seems a few Irish people (and 40 million Irish American's as we are led to believe) are dying for him to switch so they can ruin McIlroy's career earnings by making his sponsors leave him in droves. How stupid does that sound?

Sin é wrote:The way it works SR is like this. For instance, Rory's main sponsor, Jumeirah is in the hospitality industry and they won't want Rory alienating any segment of their potential market (40m Americans claim to be Irish for starters) by rejecting his nationality (rather than a simple claim to be British)

Rory is lucky that the President & CEO of Jumeirah is an Irishman (Gerald Lawless) who will probably be understanding. It will be interesting to see if they renew their sponsorship of him the next time though after that faux pas.

What???? what mind expanding drugs have you been putting in your cornflakes?? Please tell us that's a tongue in cheek wind up.

Look I'll be honest...this isn't a political comment so sorry if it offends anyone...

I hope he declares for Ireland because it would be fantastic for Irish sport and it would be a great boost to Irelands medal chances. Golds are hard to come by for Ireland and McIlroy would be a real contender.

BUT then when I read some of the nonsence on here, and elsewhere in the Irish media, I think he'd be better of just joining Team GB where at least as you say he'd just be accepted for his Golf...albeit he'd be overshadowed a bit in the UK media by Donald and Westwood imo. At least people wouldn't be scrutinising his commitment, politics and national allegience all the fiecin time.

I'll support him regardless and I'm sure most in NI will too and he'll continue to be a great ambassador for Irish sport in my eyes no matter who's colours he wears at the Olympics .

SR - if its childish to think so, why do you think Rory has backtracked?

When Tiger had his extra-marital difficulties, why did he lose a load of sponsors (none of their business who he sleeps with) and why was it such a big deal that Nike stood by him (although they cut the value of it).

PS - fair few Americans come over to Ireland to play golf (and I'm sure to St. Andrews as well) - so the golfing ones probably have passports. 35K Irish Americans turned up for a ball game in Dublin recently so its reasonable to suggest that there is that Irish-Americans own a signifiant number of those passports - another reason to have an Irish man as your brand ambassador.

Woods lost his sponsors because sponsors didn't want to be associated with a moral basket case. Having Woods as a brand ambassador for family orientrated products would be like getting Fred West to advertise patios.

It would look far worse, xenophobic in fact if Jumeirah were to cancel Mcilroy's sponsorship on the basis of his Nationality.

People don't turn up at a golf tournament because McIlroy is from NI, especially in America, they turn up because he is the most exciting talent in golf.

How many Irish-Americans have heard of Mcilroy, how many are into golf, how many care about his nationality, how many use the products he endorse, how many would not use them should he change to Britain. Jumeirah and all his other sponsors won't be losing sleep over it at all.

It's complete crap Sin, and you know it.

GunsGerms wrote:Saw that. My guess is he won't bother with the Olympics

A lot of water to flow under the bridge before he has to make a decision either way but if he backs out of the Olympics for fear of "alienating" a section of his support, depending on which option he chooses, then that will be very very sad day.

I know it's pure conjecture but in 4 years time he could well be the dominant world number 1 with several majors under his belt. It should be inconceivable that petty nationalistic tribalism should be allowed to back him into a corner. I say leave him alone to make his decision and leave him alone after he makes it too, regardless of who he chooses...end of!!

super_realist wrote:
People don't turn up at a golf tournament because McIlroy is from NI, especially in America, they turn up because he is the most exciting talent in golf.

I think Sin is right in that McIlroys profile is helped by the fact that he's from Ireland and specifically NI....especially on the East coast where there is a huge cultural connection there.

However to suggest that American fans and Sponsors will turn their back on him if he competes for GB is nonsence quite frankly. Clearly he'd be buying his own in Dublin from then on though....

So do Irish American's (whatever they are) turn up in their droves to support Shane Lowry, Gareth Maybin and Michael Hoey?

McIlroys popularity is down to the way he plays golf, and being from NI is only of interest to a tiny minority of people. I'm sure if he was from Hungary, Finland or San Marino he'd still be box office.

Well they turned up in droves to watch John Duddy fight at Madison Square Garden....and well ... he wasn't the best fighter around (Sorry John)....

McIlroys popularity is certainly mainly down to his Golf but the fact that hes from NI does no harm at all in terms of his profile over there.

I think you should read what Rory actually said:

"It just hit home with me at how my success is welcomed by everyone. It would be terrible for me to nearly segregate myself from one of those groups that supports me so much.

SR - Why would he say that if it wasn't an issue?

Very well, i'm sure it probably does help, but there is no truth in Irish Americans boycotting his sponsors should he change to being British.

However, are Donald, Westwood etc any less well liked because they are English? Wouldn't have thought so.

rodders wrote:Well they turned up in droves to watch John Duddy fight at Madison Square Garden....and well ... he wasn't the best fighter around (Sorry John)....

McIlroys popularity is certainly mainly down to his Golf but the fact that hes from NI does no harm at all in terms of his profile over there.

Or the time Ireland were playing Italy in the World Cup in New York (full of Italians and Irish). Jack Charlton turned to Tony Cascarino and said, "Cas, your the only Italian here."

Sin é wrote:I think you should read what Rory actually said:

"It just hit home with me at how my success is welcomed by everyone. It would be terrible for me to nearly segregate myself from one of those groups that supports me so much.

SR - Why would he say that if it wasn't an issue?

We all know he isn't the brightest, using terms like alienating and segregating is not clever at all. He's well aware of the childish politics which abound throughout Ireland, he should probably choose his words better as they are showing themselves to ultra sensitive people.

If his decision to change does indeed make anyone feel "alienated", then he probably should play for Britain, because what sort of person wants to represent such a bitter and insecure "fan base".

It's a bit like Neil Lennon, he got death threats for playing for NI. How sad are some people?

It's golf for goodness sake people, grow up, it makes no difference who McIlroy plays for.

I dont often agree with SR's logic (or lack of) but i have to agree with this;

"McIlroys popularity is down to the way he plays golf, and being from NI is only of interest to a tiny minority of people. I'm sure if he was from Hungary, Finland or San Marino he'd still be box office."

I have never followed Scottish football* because of the petty arguments over what flavour of Irish/Christian you are. So it is rather sad to see that golf – a game supposedly more principled than other sports – is now involved in the same petty arguments.

By default he is from the GB and NI (the UK), should he really take any flack for just opting for the nation of his birth? Or would a more sensible argument be that he should take no flack whatever nationality he chooses, as it makes no difference to watching a great player play his individual sport?.



* That, and the quality of play is just so bad.

super_realist wrote:Very well, i'm sure it probably does help, but there is no truth in Irish Americans boycotting his sponsors should he change to being British.

However, are Donald, Westwood etc any less well liked because they are English? Wouldn't have thought so.

Its not about boycotting - its about Irish Americans watching interviews with 'their boy' on TV (wearing his Jumeirah hat). They will now have heard of Jumeirah. Otherwise they would know nothing about them.

I wouldn't say they are less liked, just not as popular. Take for example Roy Keane - not too sure he was popular, but people were really interested in what he had to say - I think it might have something to do with Irish sports people generally being better talkers than other sports people. They rave in the US about Rory's likable personality.

American's are American's first, and Irish American second (because they once had a pint of Guiness)

I'm not a fan of Justin Rose, but it hasn't escaped me that he's sponsored by Taylor Made, my dislike of him won't stop me buying the products. While I like Rob Rock, but I don't go trawling to find out who he's sponsored by so I can support his endorsements and make sure him and his sponsors are cashing in.

Do the rest of the world dismiss Usain Bolt on the basis he's from Jamaica and not America, Britain etc?

Of course not, sporting greatness transends nationality, and you'd have to be a complete moron to only let the nationality of someone cloud your judgement of a sponsor.

As for Irish people being better talkers than other sports people.
Like who? Every country has shy people and extroverts, Irish are no different to anyone. Stephen Ireland and Mick McCarthy are hardly Mr Charisma are they?

McLaren wrote:I dont often agree with SR's logic (or lack of) but i have to agree with this;

"McIlroys popularity is down to the way he plays golf, and being from NI is only of interest to a tiny minority of people. I'm sure if he was from Hungary, Finland or San Marino he'd still be box office."

I have never followed Scottish football* because of the petty arguments over what flavour of Irish/Christian you are. So it is rather sad to see that golf – a game supposedly more principled than other sports – is now involved in the same petty arguments.

By default he is from the GB and NI (the UK), should he really take any flack for just opting for the nation of his birth? Or would a more sensible argument be that he should take no flack whatever nationality he chooses, as it makes no difference to watching a great player play his individual sport?.

* That, and the quality of play is just so bad.

Golf is an individual sport, so maybe there should not be competitions where individuals have to select their country. I recall Padraig Harrigton commenting years ago about playing Ryder Cup that it was useful that himself & Paul McGinley had played (gaelic) football to a decent standard and they understood how to play in a team.

What flack is he getting. He upset people (by rejecting them).

In the Olympics, if Luke Donald was eligible and decided to play for the US, would you be cheering him on - facts are if Rory ends up competing in the Olympics for Team GB, he will be competing against Team Ireland, so why would any Irish person support him?