The Cigar Lounge: General conversation.

Due to some requests we are opening a General Conversation thread for the rugby posters.

Here you are welcome to talk about world affairs, current news and general jibber jabba you want to discuss with your fellow rugbynites.

It is however imperitave that you respect all other opinions and views. This thread will be strictly monitored for any personal attacks and/or disrespectful and unacceptable behaviour.

Because of some of the subject matter that may come up from time to time, please think before you post. Debate the point of vew and don't attack the poster.

No Anglo-Welsh bickering, no my dad is bigger than your dad (mine is the biggest and that's the end of it. )
No who can spit further than who (I can show you it is me, but then you'll all just become envious. )

Admin has approved this for a trial period, so it is up to you guys whether it stays or not.

So pull up a chair, Geeves will bring your Newspaper, a cigar of your choice and a tumbler of you favourite single malt whiskey or the cognac of our choice.

I think that this is a great idea.

The structure of 606v2 doesn't allow one to follow the various threads by sub-threads and it's annoying. Neither did v1 for that matter.

The original BBC ScrumV used to allow the poster to follow tangential sub-threads to be followed and remain pertinent to the poster's interest in a topic of debate. This not a criticism of v2 - more an observation.

Just watch how this thread gets swamped by other issues and by default becomes undiscussable coherently.

Portnoy wrote:I think that this is a great idea.

The structure of 606v2 doesn't allow one to follow the various threads by sub-threads and it's annoying. Neither did v1 for that matter.

The original BBC ScrumV used to allow the poster to follow tangential sub-threads to be followed and remain pertinent to the poster's interest in a topic of debate. This not a criticism of v2 - more an observation.

Just watch how this thread gets swamped by other issues and by default becomes undiscussable coherently.

Threading is nice to have I agree Portnoy. It also for some reason is quite tricky to create code-wise (or so I was told on another forum a few years back) - from what I can establish you need your own servers, and some nice fancy dedicated software.

What I will suggest is that if you're finding a subject interesting that is getting "swamped", feel free to create a separate thread down under the "general discussion" section and post a link in here to let people know about it.

Biltong wrote:No Anglo-Welsh bickering, no my dad is bigger than your dad (mine is the biggest and that's the end of it. )

You have not met my dad.

Biltong wrote:No who can spit further than who (I can show you it is me, but then you'll all just become envious. )

You have not met my mum

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:No Anglo-Welsh bickering, no my dad is bigger than your dad (mine is the biggest and that's the end of it. )

You have not met my dad.

Biltong wrote:No who can spit further than who (I can show you it is me, but then you'll all just become envious. )

You have not met my mum

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I think that this is a great idea.

The structure of 606v2 doesn't allow one to follow the various threads by sub-threads and it's annoying. Neither did v1 for that matter.

The original BBC ScrumV used to allow the poster to follow tangential sub-threads to be followed and remain pertinent to the poster's interest in a topic of debate. This not a criticism of v2 - more an observation.

Just watch how this thread gets swamped by other issues and by default becomes undiscussable coherently.

Threading is nice to have I agree Portnoy. It also for some reason is quite tricky to create code-wise (or so I was told on another forum a few years back) - from what I can establish you need your own servers, and some nice fancy dedicated software.

What I will suggest is that if you're finding a subject interesting that is getting "swamped", feel free to create a separate thread down under the "general discussion" section and post a link in here to let people know about it.

If necessary with some digging (and aided by knowledge of previous poster names), it's possible to dig out some utterings from v1 posters. With patience it is possible to dig up a treasure trove of v1 conversations from the past. I did it for the original pub back in 2009 and posted it on v2.

The earliest v1 post I've found is www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/a28139925 but I've yet to unearth a ScrumV MB artifact.

OK politics...Scottish nationalism, whats your view?

My view is that if Scotland vote yes on independence then Britain still haven't won a men's Tennis Grand slam since 1937.....

That was the main discussion on Jeremy Vine yesterday: whether Andy Murray's victory was a victory for Scottish or for British sport. That it was necessarily a victory for both seemed to elude most of the callers.

You can't be Scottish without also being British.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:OK politics...Scottish nationalism, whats your view?

Yes to independence, but probably with a sterling monetary area, possibly a euro one. Economically it is a go-er despite what the doom merchants would have you believe, and there are plenty of similarly sized (both in population and GDP terms) countries that make it work. Next question?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That was the main discussion on Jeremy Vine yesterday: whether Andy Murray's victory was a victory for Scottish or for British sport. That it was necessarily a victory for both seemed to elude most of the callers.

You can't be Scottish without also being British.

Of course by the same logic all the English were delighted when Wales won a grand slam for Britain last year

You should have seen the street parties they had in the Valleys when Jonny Wilkinson's drop goal went over in 2003!

Thats a stupid question and one that annoys the hell out of me, if I may speak fankly

People equate Britishness with Englishness. Murrays win is a victory for Scotland and Britain. Ultimately its a win for himself.

It's funny that these questions are never asked about sir Chris Hoy?

Not to mention when our fellow Euro's spain won the soccerball

If Scotland left the Union they would still be in Britain (unless some serious demolition work is carried out. The UK (of England, Northern Ireland and Wales) won't have won a men's Tennis Grand Slam since 1937 (but how many people really care?). Good for Murray though, fair play to the guy he still seems to be improving his game and competing well against quite a few great players).

On the actual split of the union, I don't really care. It wouldn't upset me if they left but I don't have a burning urge to get rid of them. If the SNP really want it to happen they need to secret petition FIFA to rule the UK can only have one team.

Any one who votes yes to Scottish Independence is an evil, evil man that I will never speak to again. You would be condemning me and my kids to a lifetime of Tory rule

Mind you we could give the mess that is RBS back to you


Any way we only joined up cuz your king took over our crown.

Didn't Murray move abroad relatively young to develop his tennis? If so then it's a victory for Murray and sorry indicator for British/Scottish sport.

LondonTiger wrote:Any one who votes yes to Scottish Independence is an evil, evil man that I will never speak to again. You would be condemning me and my kids to a lifetime of Tory rule

Mind you we could give the mess that is RBS back to you


Any way we only joined up cuz your king took over our crown.

Yes, sorry about that, LT. An unfortunate consequence! Hmm, perhaps we can agree to divvy up RBS based on origin of earnings? Agreed? Great, so that's mainly English and American! North Sea oil? You can keep it, provided that you pick up the tab for decommissioning when it all runs out! Faslane/trident? - a modest rental income of a few £/EUR billion should cover it. Cheers

He did, Hammer. He went to a tennis academy in Spain where his nickname was 'Lazy English', which muddies the waters further.

HammerofThunor wrote:Didn't Murray move abroad relatively young to develop his tennis? If so then it's a victory for Murray and sorry indicator for British/Scottish sport.

Learnt the game in Dunblane - went to a spanish academy at 15, primarily due to the weather and courts.

Robbie Williams wants his Kids to have an English passport apparantly because he thinks kids are so dumb in LA......

Anyone else see the irony in the statement?

He is from Stoke though. the chemicals from the Potteries have a lot to answer for.

Ugh, if you're going to talk about Robbie Williams, I'm off...

I thought he was gay anyway?

Hello folks... yeah, the place looks nice! - loose the garish curtains though - although out here in Siberia, where I'm at right now, on a BNP survivalist course, well, I guess garish curtains would be a blessing.

rodders wrote:Robbie Williams wants his Kids to have an English passport apparantly because he thinks kids are so dumb in LA......

Anyone else see the irony in the statement?

That British Golfing Team at Rio is getting bigger all the time

Portnoy wrote:I think that this is a great idea.

The structure of 606v2 doesn't allow one to follow the various threads by sub-threads and it's annoying. Neither did v1 for that matter.

The original BBC ScrumV used to allow the poster to follow tangential sub-threads to be followed and remain pertinent to the poster's interest in a topic of debate. This not a criticism of v2 - more an observation.

Just watch how this thread gets swamped by other issues and by default becomes undiscussable coherently.

See what I mean?

Portnoy wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I think that this is a great idea.

The structure of 606v2 doesn't allow one to follow the various threads by sub-threads and it's annoying. Neither did v1 for that matter.

The original BBC ScrumV used to allow the poster to follow tangential sub-threads to be followed and remain pertinent to the poster's interest in a topic of debate. This not a criticism of v2 - more an observation.

Just watch how this thread gets swamped by other issues and by default becomes undiscussable coherently.

See what I mean?

First Major Topic Alert:

I'll start off - what the hell does that last sentence and particularly the last two words mean??

LondonTiger wrote:He is from Stoke though. the chemicals from the Potteries have a lot to answer for.

Hey!

[Technically he's not from Stoke he's from Burslem, which are both towns in Stoke-on-Trent (a city)]

Location: Hull, England - Originally Potteries

See the chemicals meant you had to move to God's Own Country

HammerofThunor wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:He is from Stoke though. the chemicals from the Potteries have a lot to answer for.

Hey!

[Technically he's not from Stoke he's from Burslem, which are both towns in Stoke-on-Trent (a city)]

It says a lot that people choose to move to Hull

Portnoy wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I think that this is a great idea.

The structure of 606v2 doesn't allow one to follow the various threads by sub-threads and it's annoying. Neither did v1 for that matter.

The original BBC ScrumV used to allow the poster to follow tangential sub-threads to be followed and remain pertinent to the poster's interest in a topic of debate. This not a criticism of v2 - more an observation.

Just watch how this thread gets swamped by other issues and by default becomes undiscussable coherently.

See what I mean?

Quote function? Theres always the specific discussion fora for those who want them. The whole thing is redundant and its not like we dont drift off rugby threads in random discussions anyway

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:He is from Stoke though. the chemicals from the Potteries have a lot to answer for.

Hey!

[Technically he's not from Stoke he's from Burslem, which are both towns in Stoke-on-Trent (a city)]

It says a lot that people choose to move to Hull

It was my only way to get out of Swansea.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:Robbie Williams wants his Kids to have an English passport apparantly because he thinks kids are so dumb in LA......

Anyone else see the irony in the statement?

That British Golfing Team at Rio is getting bigger all the time

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:He is from Stoke though. the chemicals from the Potteries have a lot to answer for.

Hey!

[Technically he's not from Stoke he's from Burslem, which are both towns in Stoke-on-Trent (a city)]

It says a lot that people choose to move to Hull

Wait.... People move to HULL? ON PURPOSE?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Wait.... People move to HULL? ON PURPOSE?

think of it as Yorkshire's version of Ellis Island.

Two league teams says it all

If we can sort out the joint businesses, the National services with many people in Scotland (like the NHS), how the finance would break up (like would Scotland pick up RBS' debt to the British government?) and everything else amicably, let Scotland be their own country. France and Spain will hate it though. Their culturally independent regions will want the same thing and it will cause a big problem in Europe. Economically, RBS' state counteracts any possible gain from Scotland and the City still floats the entire UK, so no loss there. Oil resources are a poisoned chalice as ASBO reflected on earlier. My biggest worry would be how cross national services under the UK government could even feasibly be split up without ruining a lot of people's careers, especially as many doctors will have been shipped out to Scotland due to the medical application system of several years ago and would effectively be forced into emigration into a new foreign power. It's a very complex issue and I'm sure similar things apply to other public sectors

ChequeredJersey wrote:If we can sort out the joint businesses, the National services with many people in Scotland (like the NHS), how the finance would break up (like would Scotland pick up RBS' debt to the British government?) and everything else amicably, let Scotland be their own country.

Politics is always complicated and countries deal with countries 24 hours a day. They deal with mutual issues of defence in Military pacts, deal with common economic issues in treaties etc. Goverments deal with goverments all the time and work through issues of mutual benefit and/or frictional issues.

So of course a new Independent Nation emerging in the guise of Scotland would be a complicated business and all politicians know only too well how many sleepless nights they'll have, BUT the idea should never be "let Scotland be their own country".

The rest of the UK will not be allowing Scots to do anything if Scots vote to have Independence... Scots will be making their own decision and declaring the new reality. Anything else is dangerous ground - the rest of the UK will not be bestowing any rights on a Scotland that declares Independence, if that is how it goes - Scotland will simply be assuming those rights - by right.

SecretFly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:If we can sort out the joint businesses, the National services with many people in Scotland (like the NHS), how the finance would break up (like would Scotland pick up RBS' debt to the British government?) and everything else amicably, let Scotland be their own country.

Politics is always complicated and countries deal with countries 24 hours a day. They deal with mutual issues of defence in Military pacts, deal with common economic issues in treaties etc. Goverments deal with goverments all the time and work through issues of mutual benefit and/or frictional issues.

So of course a new Independent Nation emerging in the guise of Scotland would be a complicated business and all politicians know only too well how many sleepless nights they'll have, BUT the idea should never be "let Scotland be their own country".

The rest of the UK will not be allowing Scots to do anything if Scots vote to have Independence... Scots will be making their own decision and declaring the new reality. Anything else is dangerous ground - the rest of the UK will not be bestowing any rights on a Scotland that declares Independence, if that is how it goes - Scotland will simply be assuming those rights - by right.

True, sorry. What I meant was not to worry about the issue. It'd would be a massive pain in the bum for my family as a lot of relatives live in Scotland and my brother goes to Uni there- does he suddenly become an International student? Presumably not.

I shouldn't have said let.

However, Scottish independence would have, in the short term, a hugely detrimental effect on a lot of non-Scottish people in Scotland unless the handover is handled very carefully. Aside from these issues, I don't see how the situation would end up being much different to how it is now except in principle and in name.

The basic currency unit would be the first thing to agree.

If any UK split is to happen the fundamental economic denominator has to be the premise for argument.

And to support that premise, a way of limiting unilateral tax/spend arrangements.

Portnoy wrote:The basic currency unit would be the first thing to agree.

If any UK split is to happen the fundamental economic denominator has to be the premise for argument.

And to support that premise, a way of limiting unilateral tax/spend arrangements.

Agreed, some form of monetary and/or fiscal arrangement would need to be established first. As I see it there are 4 choices:
(i) create own currency and go on our own
(ii) create own currency and peg to a basket of bigger currencies (ie $)
(iii) keep sterling and make an agreement with England,Wales&NI
(iv) adopt the euro and come to a pact with Euroland

(i) and (ii) are least likely to be successful, (iii) probably makes most sense from a largest trading partner perspective.

Fiscal arrangements will be key, but Scotland does have the opportunity to make itself an attractive destination for companies, but its ability to have taxes far away from its partners (under either iii or iv) would surely be limited

No who can spit further than who (I can show you it is me, but then you'll all just become envious. )

I dunno about that but I've actually seen someone Pish over a transit van. Honest guv...

Breadvan wrote:No who can spit further than who (I can show you it is me, but then you'll all just become envious. )

I dunno about that but I've actually seen someone Pish over a transit van. Honest guv...

Until it hit him...God rest his Bladder.

SecretFly wrote:

Breadvan wrote:No who can spit further than who (I can show you it is me, but then you'll all just become envious. )

I dunno about that but I've actually seen someone Pish over a transit van. Honest guv...

Until it hit him...God rest his Bladder.

It is important to pish downwind, or else....

Prices are far too expensive in ere. Sticking a floral carpet on the floor and cleaning up the bogs, justifies charging those prices? I'll have a glass of tap-water please.

On Scottish Independence... it will never fully happen. Let's be honest here. Having their own Laws and a better education system, has already been in place for yonks. Now they have a Parliament, should all the Jocks lose their rights to participate in the English/Welsh Government? I know the Welsh have a pseudo-parliament .. but lets not go there. It got in by 0.0000000005%

To untangle its financially dependent links with the Mother Country, would be a Scottish nightmare alone. Shame it wasn't done before the English discovered oil in the North Sea.

That would have pished Thatcher off no end. And could have kick-started/financed, a proper fight for independence.

Another obstacle and a huge one at that is - who would they moan about and continually blame for their woes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-LRuuqFT0

The Paddies have long given up on that craic. Us and the English are great mates now(save for those who never quite got over The Famine). We blame the Germans now.

Hey! Get rid of that blow-in from the kip around the corner with the two Welsh birds and the bunch of Irish basterauds! Troublemaker and a waffler to boot!

He'll definitely buy you a pint but be very careful how much you drink of it... just sip it to be polite....

Just being neighbourly there Fly.

LondonTiger wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Wait.... People move to HULL? ON PURPOSE?

think of it as Yorkshire's version of Ellis Island.

I thowt that were 'artlepool.

Or is that in Cleveland these days?


Evening Loungers.