BT buy Premiership rights from next season

First topic message reminder :

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures/20493.php#.UFBpfLKPV5B


Another subscription to pay by the sounds of it. If Sky are losing the rights though, it'll mean no more Barnes

None of the Unions will allow this to happen. Even the French would think twice about getting involved with such bullish outfit.

The IRB (who share a building with the ERC) will not sanction a media company to run a rugby tournament.

As far as I know anyway, the French are far more interested in increasing the Top 14 to the Top 16 or 18 than participating in any European competition.

Come on Scarlets bloody win in Europe before its no more

The RFU and PRL own equal shares in the ERC.

If the HEC goes on as normal then the PRL will have to breach their agreement with BT (not going to happen, it would put the massive deal, most for the Premiership in danger). If Europe is going to continue it will mean disbanding the ERC to for the CRE or ECR or some other different organisation so the ERC doesn't exist and can't be taken accord for breaching a contract.

ERC is gone, I would be my house on it (metaphorically). Whether an equivalent organisation will be created or not is another matter.



The IRB won't let a media company run a competition? Er...Sky?

If the PRL pull out of the ERC and ERC competitions then what can the IRB do? If the English and French did happen to want to set up a different competition on what basis would the IRB block it? The only way this is a breach of IRB regulations is if the ERC remains.

Sin é wrote:None of the Unions will allow this to happen. Even the French would think twice about getting involved with such bullish outfit.

The IRB (who share a building with the ERC) will not sanction a media company to run a rugby tournament.

As far as I know anyway, the French are far more interested in increasing the Top 14 to the Top 16 or 18 than participating in any European competition.

Surely you're not suggesting that the Dublin-based rugby organisations; IRB, 6N, ERC, IRFU & Leinster might be partial to a spot of collusion over a pint of the black stuff?

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Prem Rugby tweeted:

"BT will look to distribute on variety of platforms; could include freeview/youview, satellite,their broadband, pubs/clubs etc"

BT have talked about creating a sports channel on the back of their newly acquired football rights and apparently have been in discussion with ITV to produce that coverage

so, is this the opportunity for ITV to get into sports/rugby? They have always made a lot of noise about it, but maybe this is their shot?

BTW The LV Cup rights are included in the RFU and Sky deal so they're safe.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Sin é wrote:None of the Unions will allow this to happen. Even the French would think twice about getting involved with such bullish outfit.

The IRB (who share a building with the ERC) will not sanction a media company to run a rugby tournament.

As far as I know anyway, the French are far more interested in increasing the Top 14 to the Top 16 or 18 than participating in any European competition.

Surely you're not suggesting that the Dublin-based rugby organisations; IRB, 6N, ERC, IRFU & Leinster might be partial to a spot of collusion over a pint of the black stuff?

Don't leave out the B+I Lions - they hang out in Dublin as well!

broadlandboy wrote:Secretfly
" And we are looking to set up, or at least help set up, a dazzling new European tournament, with a fantastic new format, with, we hope, all the best clubs. And we’ve secured, from the English Premiership, the rights to that for the UK. That tournament will be the successor to the Heineken Cup, which is a very successful tournament."

? That's a communication company's statement - it's not a controlling statement from the Unions and IRB who in the end control what Rugby Union does on the planet. If a Communications company want to play hardball with the IRB.........hmmm, there'll be blood alright and I'm not sure they'll be the ones left standing.

You can't have a European competition that goes against the wishes of the IRB/ERC...................... you try it, and your players play for it, and they quickly fall into deep trouble with the organisations that will give them or take away from them an International career.

So the Communications company might think it can sneer at the ERC, and in turn the IRB, and declare that it is going to change the fabric of European club rugby with or without ERC approval, the players you'd need to play in it though............................?

Most of them know they want to play for their Unions and be Internationals. It's like the renters telling the Landlord they're not going to be paying any rent anymore, and in actual fact are declaring that they are forcefully taking ownership of the landlord's house and might be requiring rental in the future.

HammerofThunor wrote:The RFU and PRL own equal shares in the ERC.

If the HEC goes on as normal then the PRL will have to breach their agreement with BT (not going to happen, it would put the massive deal, most for the Premiership in danger). If Europe is going to continue it will mean disbanding the ERC to for the CRE or ECR or some other different organisation so the ERC doesn't exist and can't be taken accord for breaching a contract.

ERC is gone, I would be my house on it (metaphorically). Whether an equivalent organisation will be created or not is another matter.



The IRB won't let a media company run a competition? Er...Sky?

If the PRL pull out of the ERC and ERC competitions then what can the IRB do? If the English and French did happen to want to set up a different competition on what basis would the IRB block it? The only way this is a breach of IRB regulations is if the ERC remains.

Televise - not control rules and regulations...that's Televise that SKY do.

SecretFly wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:Secretfly
" And we are looking to set up, or at least help set up, a dazzling new European tournament, with a fantastic new format, with, we hope, all the best clubs. And we’ve secured, from the English Premiership, the rights to that for the UK. That tournament will be the successor to the Heineken Cup, which is a very successful tournament."

? That's a communication company's statement - it's not a controlling statement from the Unions and IRB who in the end control what Rugby Union does on the planet. If a Communications company want to play hardball with the IRB.........hmmm, there'll be blood alright and I'm not sure they'll be the ones left standing.

You can't have a European competition that goes against the wishes of the IRB/ERC...................... you try it, and your players play for it, and they quickly fall into deep trouble with the organisations that will give them or take away from them an International career.

So the Communications company might think it can sneer at the ERC, and in turn the IRB, and declare that it is going to change the fabric of European club rugby with or without ERC approval, the players you'd need to play in it though............................?

Most of them know they want to play for their Unions and be Internationals. It's like the renters telling the Landlord they're not going to be paying any rent anymore, and in actual fact are declaring that they are forcefully taking ownership of the landlord's house and might be requiring rental in the future.

ERC is purely a commercial organisation, although granted some limited administrative powers by their stakeholders - their wishes are irrelevant. Their stakeholders include Unions who do have powers over rugby within their own domain, but can only influence matters outside of it by political pressure. The consent of IRB CEO is required for a trans-national club competition - that situation is currently vacant. This PRL/BT proposal is not Union threatening (at the moment) - there is no reason for IRB to be deeply involved.

ERC is licenced by the IRB to organised a European Cup (just like English Prem. Rugby is licenced by the IRB/RFU to run the Premier League).

The Premier League have a representative on the Board of the ERC, so I think they too could be sued for breach of contract with Sky.

ERC express concern at new TV deal
(UKPA) – 1 hour ago
European rugby has been plunged into disarray following an announcement by English clubs that they had agreed a separate TV deal with BT.
The future of the Heineken Cup is the subject of renewed doubt after BT secured exclusive live broadcast rights to games played by Aviva Premiership teams in Europe from 2014 for three years.
It is a provocative move by Premiership Rugby designed to force the hand of ERC, who run the Heineken Cup, which also pressurises the competition's current broadcaster Sky.
The English and French clubs are in dispute with ERC over the structure of the northern hemisphere's greatest club tournament, threatening to set up an alternative when the current agreement ends in 2014 if their demands are not met.
Their chief concern is a qualification structure that favours teams from the RaboDirect PRO 12 and qualifying will be the central talking point when ERC stakeholders meet in Dublin next Tuesday.
ERC reacted to the developments by issuing a statement claiming the deal with BT is "in breach both of IRB regulations and of a mandate from the ERC board itself".
"European club rugby's six participant Unions have granted the authority to sell broadcast rights to its tournaments solely to ERC," read the statement.
"It was unanimously agreed at an ERC board meeting on 6 June, 2012 that ERC would conclude a new four-year agreement with Sky Sports for the UK and Ireland exclusive live broadcast rights to the Heineken Cup and the Amlin Challenge Cup until 2018. Premiership Rugby was party to that decision.

"ERC remains determined to honour its own commercial commitments and to continue its work to further develop the European club game."

Sky indicated they are unwilling to concede ground in the battle of the broadcasters by swiftly announcing confirmation of their agreement with ERC.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

ERC is purely a commercial organisation, although granted some limited administrative powers by their stakeholders - their wishes are irrelevant. Their stakeholders include Unions who do have powers over rugby within their own domain, but can only influence matters outside of it by political pressure. The consent of IRB CEO is required for a trans-national club competition - that situation is currently vacant. This PRL/BT proposal is not Union threatening (at the moment) - there is no reason for IRB to be deeply involved.

Refer you to the statement quoted by Sin é below you...and the same one is quoted somewhere up above us too.

Thank you for the reference - I have noted the public posturing of ERC, as I have with PRL and BT.

I treat all with cynicism, but I reiterate, in different words, that to ascribe ERC as some kind of approving statutary body is completely wrong. To consider that IRB, in my opinion will become embroiled in commercial discussions at sub-international level is also wrong.

I'm not sure where the idea that BT will run a rugby competition (rules and regulations) has come from - it's clear to me that they will only be as involved as Sky.

This is all commercial negotiation, with a slight undercurrent of club competitions being commercially (not regulatory) run by clubs, not Unions

As things stand the ERC will be disbanded in 2014. The ERC have sold the TV rights to Sky for a potential continuation of the HEC and ACC. The PRL have sold the rights for their games in any European competition. The only way the ERC will continue with the PRL clubs is if the PRL agree to an extension of the ERC.

Fact One: If the ERC is extended, Sky own the rights and the PRL will have to breach their contact with the BT to show their European games

Opinion One: This would fundamentally undermine the BT/PRL deal, majority of which is for the Premiership itself.

Fact Two: The ERC will only continue to exist in it's current format if the PRL agree (they own a 1/12 share).

Opinion Two: There is no way whatsoever that the PRL will agree to a situation that would put their Premiership TV deal at risk.

Fact Three: The ERC, or the other non-English members thereof, can't force the PRL to continue with the ERC.

Opinion Three: The RFU will not attempt to force the PRL to continue with the ERC deal; the fall out with the clubs would be way too great and they're getting on well at the moment

Fact Four: The IRB has to sanction any cross border rugby competition

Opinion Four: The IRB would have no legitimate reason to block an Anglo-French competition if one appeared.


Conclusion: The ERC will come to end in the summer of 2014

Looks like things are about to reach a whole new level of messiness:

Prem Rugby reply to ERC statement

Premiership Rugby notes the announcement by ERC concerning a broadcast deal with Sky Sports for the coverage of ERC competitions from 2014-15.

ERC and its Board acknowledged and accepted that notice was served on the ERC Accord on 1 June 2012 by Premiership Rugby and Ligue Nationale de Rugby which means the Accord comes to an end in 2014. Sky Sports have been made fully aware of this.

As a result of notice being served, ERC is not entitled after 2014 to sell the broadcast rights of matches involving Premiership Rugby clubs. On 27 July 2012 ERC was reminded of this in writing, and this was copied to Sky Sports.

We also note ERC’s reference to its Board Meeting on 6 June 2012. No specific broadcast deal was presented or voted on at this or any subsequent ERC Board meeting. In any case any such deal could not have included matches involving Premiership Rugby clubs.

ERC’s suggestion that Premiership Rugby may be in breach of IRB regulations is wrong. Following Premiership Rugby’s agreement with the RFU, dated 16 October 2007 Premiership Rugby has specific consent to control the broadcast rights of its clubs.

The deal which Premiership Rugby has completed with BT is financially strong for Premiership Rugby clubs and future European competitions bringing up to £152m into the game over the next four years. When any future European competition launches in 2014, BT will have exclusive rights to broadcast the matches played by Premiership Rugby clubs.

I can only see lawyers benefiting from this move by the PRL - very disappointing

HammerofThunor wrote:As things stand the ERC will be disbanded in 2014. The ERC have sold the TV rights to Sky for a potential continuation of the HEC and ACC. The PRL have sold the rights for their games in any European competition. The only way the ERC will continue with the PRL clubs is if the PRL agree to an extension of the ERC.

Fact One: If the ERC is extended, Sky own the rights and the PRL will have to breach their contact with the BT to show their European games

Opinion One: This would fundamentally undermine the BT/PRL deal, majority of which is for the Premiership itself.

Fact Two: The ERC will only continue to exist in it's current format if the PRL agree (they own a 1/12 share).

Opinion Two: There is no way whatsoever that the PRL will agree to a situation that would put their Premiership TV deal at risk.

Fact Three: The ERC, or the other non-English members thereof, can't force the PRL to continue with the ERC.

Opinion Three: The RFU will not attempt to force the PRL to continue with the ERC deal; the fall out with the clubs would be way too great and they're getting on well at the moment

Fact Four: The IRB has to sanction any cross border rugby competition

Opinion Four: The IRB would have no legitimate reason to block an Anglo-French competition if one appeared.


Conclusion: The ERC will come to end in the summer of 2014

First Highlight again assumes the administrative highground of PRL. You suggest they will call the shots on European Competition because they've already made a deal they're not going to go back on. Therefore what they want to happen in Europe will happen.
Truth is they've made a deal on their own, in isolation of any other league or in consultation with any other organisation that would in the end form a European competition (were the French consulted?) They made their own deal, and no other league or organisation currently involved is compelled to honour that deal in any shape or form. Yes, the PRL have the right to remove themselves from European competition but not to the sole right to instigate a European competition - that will take negotiation.

Second Highlight: yes, the IRB might eventually have no reason to block an Anglo-French competition - but if they choose, or if members of the IRB choose, to challenge any aspect of an Anglo-French competition, then certainly the legitimacy of any blocking couldn't be questioned. The IRB itself will decide on what legitimacy is attached to their concerns if any, not the French and English clubs who would want to go ahead.

They haven't instigated a European competition. But any European competition that will involve the English clubs WILL have BT televising the English games (I'm assuming home games). If any other group, be it individual clubs, clubs collectives, unions or whatever, are not willing to allow this then the English will not be involved in any European competitions.

Second point, poor choice of wording. Should have been "I can't think of any valid reason that the IRB could block an Anglo-France competition" (besides, that was in the 'opinion' part which means no legitimate reason in my opinion).

As, I think the PRL will benefit from this in the end. However the wording of that statement sounds like ALL the English games will be televised by BT. Suggesting any agreement on English participation will include non-English home games being televised by BT. Again, if the other participating groups are not willing to do this the English will not be involved.

HammerofThunor wrote:They haven't instigated a European competition. But any European competition that will involve the English clubs WILL have BT televising the English games (I'm assuming home games). If any other group, be it individual clubs, clubs collectives, unions or whatever, are not willing to allow this then the English will not be involved in any European competitions.

Second point, poor choice of wording. Should have been "I can't think of any valid reason that the IRB could block an Anglo-France competition" (besides, that was in the 'opinion' part which means no legitimate reason in my opinion).

As, I think the PRL will benefit from this in the end. However the wording of that statement sounds like ALL the English games will be televised by BT. Suggesting any agreement on English participation will include non-English home games being televised by BT. Again, if the other participating groups are not willing to do this the English will not be involved.

So we've concluded and agree that PRL will insist on controlling the TV rights to ALL English games or they will not be involved. So really, what the PRL are doing is putting down their final negotiating position before any negotiations begin.

One: Rather arrogant you'd have to agree.

Two: And once again, that is their position, their deal, their conclusion and their ultimatum - nobody else has to honour any of that in any way at European level.

Three: Their unwillingness to shift/modify/negotiate position might in actual fact see them out of Europe. They might say fine, we're out - but Europe is a valuable place for ambitious clubs and ambitious players to be. It won't be all smiles if isolation is the answer.

Four: We all hope for a solution that will see all the best sides in Europe still able to participate in a pan-European event that has real meaning and that the winner can genuinely say "We are the Best in Europe." That's the only solution that rugby lovers should want.

One: How is it arrogant? It's their limiting condition. They're just setting it in stone effectively so there is no wiggle room. If they really want a European Competition they would have give somewhere else (it also depends on how much money it contributes to the new 'ERC'. If that and the rights for the remaining games contribute more than Sky would give do you think anyone will complain?

Two: No they don't [have to honour it]. Any European competition involving the English clubs will have to have this condition. If no-one is willing it won't happen.

Three: The initial refusal to negotiate new terms is the reason the clubs gave their notice in the first place.

Four: That's a secondary concern for me. A 'best of Europe' competition is nice but not required (again, for me). There's always the LV, which will exist for another year after the end of the HEC.

Five: For the PRL to say that no Sky was agreed at any meeting suggests they've gone through the minutes. If it wasn't surely that indicates a shameful, arrogant act by someone at the ERC?

SecretFly wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:They haven't instigated a European competition. But any European competition that will involve the English clubs WILL have BT televising the English games (I'm assuming home games). If any other group, be it individual clubs, clubs collectives, unions or whatever, are not willing to allow this then the English will not be involved in any European competitions.

Second point, poor choice of wording. Should have been "I can't think of any valid reason that the IRB could block an Anglo-France competition" (besides, that was in the 'opinion' part which means no legitimate reason in my opinion).

As, I think the PRL will benefit from this in the end. However the wording of that statement sounds like ALL the English games will be televised by BT. Suggesting any agreement on English participation will include non-English home games being televised by BT. Again, if the other participating groups are not willing to do this the English will not be involved.

So we've concluded and agree that PRL will insist on controlling the TV rights to ALL English games or they will not be involved. So really, what the PRL are doing is putting down their final negotiating position before any negotiations begin.

One: Rather arrogant you'd have to agree.

Two: And once again, that is their position, their deal, their conclusion and their ultimatum - nobody else has to honour any of that in any way at European level.

Three: Their unwillingness to shift/modify/negotiate position might in actual fact see them out of Europe. They might say fine, we're out - but Europe is a valuable place for ambitious clubs and ambitious players to be. It won't be all smiles if isolation is the answer.

Four: We all hope for a solution that will see all the best sides in Europe still able to participate in a pan-European event that has real meaning and that the winner can genuinely say "We are the Best in Europe." That's the only solution that rugby lovers should want.

All of the above is equally applicable to ERC, except item four which I applaud.

There will be plenty of eejit journos & talking heads commenting in the next few days, but the real negotiations will start at next week's ERC meeting. I don't care about ERC/Sky or PRL/BT dominance - the competition is important, though I do rather hope that the Amlin, or equivalent, will be enhanced. No, that's not quite true - I'm anti-Sky if it gets rid of Barnes.

BTW, I didn't think the HEC was about the best sides in Europe. It was about the best sides from 6 unions? Wasn't that the argument. The clubs proposal would make it more about the best sides in Europe and they were shouted down.

Total breakdown of relations then.

I'd say the ERC only exists in it's current form because it's members say it does. The English are out, the French will almost certainly follow (how provocative was signing the Sky deal to them?), as stated above the ERC are probably toast. A new organisation which looks remarkably like the Rabo may well come into existance, but elsewhere in the forest I expect the English and French to set up a competition, consider inviting Rabo clubs to join, but whatever they say set up a third tier competition involving some of the developing European sides.

The IRB don't have unlimited power to interfere with what the English and French clubs do. In any case I think it unlilely (although admittedly not impossible) that the RFU will publically oppose PRL.

Not certain how this will turn out, but I think there has probably been a miscalculation by the IRFU (who I presume are pulling the strings when it comes to the Irish regions). The English and French always made the HEC viable, when it was clear they weren't happy they should have given some ground. Now everyone will have to live with the consequences.

HammerofThunor wrote:
Four: That's a secondary concern for me. A 'best of Europe' competition is nice but not required (again, for me). There's always the LV, which will exist for another year after the end of the HEC.

Yeah, I was guessing that all along. Premiership interests above any European competition. That's your prerogative of course if that's the case. But that already exists. The Premiership already exists in the format I'm sure your satisfied with. It doesn't really matter what TV company has rights to show Premiership games to me (who rarely watches them)...or I'm sure you (who probably watches all the time). As long as it's televised and money is going into the clubs and you get to see the games, that's all you need.

But then that's not the reason for the fall out. The whole problem revolves around the European aspect to the BT deal - what they're hoping to have in place in the future, and what they hope to profit from of course. But according to you, that's a secondary concern, nice but not required.

Then why the discussions about letters and counter letters? Why are you putting their European case? It does concern you, maybe from just the delight at seeing the PRL flex its muscle or maybe because you like the idea of a go-it-alone Anglo/French Competition.

If it's the latter BT want, then I'd say their statement of wanting a new enriched competition of the best in Europe rings pretty hollow and insincere - if it's what you yourself would want then of course we disagree not just on the detail of the statements, the arguments and the principles but on the entire topic. French/English Competition is a cop-out in my opinion - an escape from real battle, an evasion of the truth, a cold chase for money. Enjoy that deal if its the one that emerges.

Oh an about the best sides in Europe verses best side of six Unions - the English and French complained about the 'unworthy' Scottish and Italian sides being part of the HEC (even though their presence often made English and French and Irish progress in the competition easier) so forgive me if I don't believe the idea that the English and French initially wanted even to widen the 'unworthy' net more for a European competition. What they wanted/want is more games, more profits, less real competition, more titles, more profits - it's business, not rugby.

Wooo. That's when the ERC agreement is up. The fight starts. Clever move by the Jeff. Leverage-wise. But stupid, long-term, imo.

The ERC has the best club comp on the Planet. With respect, in isolation, the Jeff is still, just the Jeff. Maybe after the HC QF's, that deal will look silly. Only one winner here.

May help them when we all compromise.

The French created the the World Cup, the European Cup, the European Championship and gave birth to the Modern Olympics. I hope they don't regress too.
I don't care who has exclusive rights to the Jeff. I will watch it no matter who televises it. I watch & listen to PRO12 games in Norn-Irish, Welsh, Italian, Scots and Irish Gaelic. Don't care.

But, from a European perspective, you cant live in isolation and just broadcast yourselves to yourselves. The Empire is gone. It wont work.

Besides, do you think the other sides wont have SKY's rights on them, if an English side is playing an Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Italian or French side in the HC? They could only control, or share - their home games. Think about it.

"• Exclusive live broadcast rights to matches of Aviva Premiership teams in any future European competitions for three years starting from the 2014-15 season."

That will go to the European Courts. This fight has only just begun. That BT deal will be watered down in the HC.

McCafferty just made a very bad chess-move, imo.

Gents,
I think we need to see what is happening for what it is: These are the openning salvos of an intense and emotional negotiation. The European Club Championship is not going away.
Why?
Because everyone makes too much money from it: The Clubs, Unions and TV.
On that, we can all rest assured.
Everyone wants it.
Everyone.

So the important question is not on which broadcast platform it will shown. Who cares for the moment anyway? When all is said and done, everyone will be able to watch. The question is the tournament format, number of clubs (I personally like 24), and qualification requirements.

The English, and I presume, the French clubs are simply putting down markers for the start of negotiations. This is neither arrogant (don't like that overused, misapplied word) nor inflexible. In the world of high stakes negotiations, everything is is open for adjustment or modification or change. Regardless of what the various groups involved post online or print in the newspapers for our consumption. As in: don't believe everything we read. Especially during negotiations.

This has to have been brewing for quite some time and none of us know what has been discussed in the many backrooms of European Rugby. Since we really don't know all the facts, it is difficult (and probably a waste of time) to pin right and wrong on anyone. Everyone involved wants a European competiton. An Anglo-French competition sounds as exciting as watching a souflee droop, A Celtic competition already exists. So everyone needs each other. Which is the heart of any negotiation, and why I have confidence.

Have faith in the suits. They look and sound like self-destructive obnoxious dolts. But they are our dolts, Rugby dolts if you will, and they have to make this work.

Failure is truly not an option.

Just curious - has there been any official commentary from any of the other four unions involved in the European competition since this whole thing started? (The references to the Pro 12 are irrelevant since it's not party to the agreement.)

I thought I saw some innocuous comment from the WRU about sitting down for discussion but can't recall anything of note.

Did any of the unions actually come out and say they wouldn't discuss any changes to the comps?

Have they said anywhere they want the comp structure to stay exactly as it is for the next agreement?
They've been oddly quiet amidst all the Franglo salvo firing.

Let me see if I have this straight. The English clubs with 1/12th of a stake in the ERC go on a solo run, pi$$ everyone off, and think the French will back them up?

Then some people on here think that the rest of Europe will just give in, because???? Because it might void some deal 1/12th of them have made on this solo run? Are you on drugs?

The ERC will just cease to exist? Dream on....

I am sure there will be a few twists and turns in this one yet, and I think it is a pity to waste money on lawyers instead of talking to each other, but that is one outcome that will definitely not occur.

The French won't give a shyte about any Anglo French cup and will leave the poor English at the altar. The HC may be 2nd to the Top 14 in France, but they still would have it every day and twice on Sundays before any other aul yoke the PRL and BT might dream up.

The ERC is a Limited Company. Its Board of Directors are:

ERC Board of Directors
France Jean-Pierre Lux (ERC Chairman)
France Michel Palmié (FFR) René Bouscatel (LNR)
England Rob Andrew (RFU) Peter Wheeler (Premiership Rugby)
Ireland Peter Boyle (IRFU) Philip Browne (IRFU)
Italy Orazio Arancio (FIR) Fabrizio Gaetaniello (FIR)
Scotland Mark Dodson (Scottish Rugby) Ian McLauchlan (Scottish Rugby)
Wales Roger Lewis (WRU) Stuart Gallacher (RRW)

Note that Peter Wheeler is a Director of ERC Ltc.. I'd be pretty sure that he would have some responsibility to a company he is a director of.

Gibbo - it was Tom Kiernan (first chairman of ERC) who was the instigator of the Heineken Cup.

Actually, I wouldn't be too sure that the French will back England/Wheeler.

Wheeler put himself forward to be chair of the ERC and he lost out to the Frenchman Lux last year!

Jean-Pierre Lux has been elected to serve a further three-year term as the independent chairman of ERC, the organisers of the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup tournaments.

Mr Lux, who was first elected as ERC chairman in 1999, was re-elected at an ERC Board meeting in Dublin today (Wednesday, 9 February, 2011) following a ballot of ERC directors from England, France, Ireland, Italy, Scotland and Wales.

Mr Lux, who won 47 caps for France as a centre between 1967 and 1975, and ERC director Peter Wheeler made themselves available for election to the post.

"I am delighted to have received the backing of the ERC Board of Directors and I very much look forward to continue working closely with everyone involved with our two great tournaments in driving European club rugby forward," said Mr Lux.

Sin é wrote:The ERC is a Limited Company. Its Board of Directors are:

ERC Board of Directors
France Jean-Pierre Lux (ERC Chairman)
France Michel Palmié (FFR) René Bouscatel (LNR)
England Rob Andrew (RFU) Peter Wheeler (Premiership Rugby)
Ireland Peter Boyle (IRFU) Philip Browne (IRFU)
Italy Orazio Arancio (FIR) Fabrizio Gaetaniello (FIR)
Scotland Mark Dodson (Scottish Rugby) Ian McLauchlan (Scottish Rugby)
Wales Roger Lewis (WRU) Stuart Gallacher (RRW)

Note that Peter Wheeler is a Director of ERC Ltc.. I'd be pretty sure that he would have some responsibility to a company he is a director of.

Gibbo - it was Tom Kiernan (first chairman of ERC) who was the instigator of the Heineken Cup.

I know that SIN. I meant the massive money-spinner that is the CL or soccer European Cup. My point being, in sport, France was always inclusive and outward-looking, whilst England turned inwards. Until it grew up and joined the party.

This is all so familiar to me. It actually makes me smile.

IIRC the French clubs were not too happy about that

Sin é wrote:Actually, I wouldn't be too sure that the French will back England/Wheeler.

Wheeler put himself forward to be chair of the ERC and he lost out to the Frenchman Lux last year!

Jean-Pierre Lux has been elected to serve a further three-year term as the independent chairman of ERC, the organisers of the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup tournaments.

Mr Lux, who was first elected as ERC chairman in 1999, was re-elected at an ERC Board meeting in Dublin today (Wednesday, 9 February, 2011) following a ballot of ERC directors from England, France, Ireland, Italy, Scotland and Wales.

Mr Lux, who won 47 caps for France as a centre between 1967 and 1975, and ERC director Peter Wheeler made themselves available for election to the post.

"I am delighted to have received the backing of the ERC Board of Directors and I very much look forward to continue working closely with everyone involved with our two great tournaments in driving European club rugby forward," said Mr Lux.

You're aware that this nearly resulted in civil war in France, after FFR threw all it's (and LNR's) votes at Lux, afer LNR wanted Wheeler? Apparently, FFR had an overpowering vote "for the good of French Rugby" which they claimed over-ruled LNR's wishes. That decision is probably why we find ourselves in the current situation.

Well broadlandboy, for something they are not happy about, they sure have enough representatives (3) on the board to ensure their voice is listened too. I wonder is England their stalking horse?

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Sin é wrote:Actually, I wouldn't be too sure that the French will back England/Wheeler.

Wheeler put himself forward to be chair of the ERC and he lost out to the Frenchman Lux last year!

Jean-Pierre Lux has been elected to serve a further three-year term as the independent chairman of ERC, the organisers of the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup tournaments.

Mr Lux, who was first elected as ERC chairman in 1999, was re-elected at an ERC Board meeting in Dublin today (Wednesday, 9 February, 2011) following a ballot of ERC directors from England, France, Ireland, Italy, Scotland and Wales.

Mr Lux, who won 47 caps for France as a centre between 1967 and 1975, and ERC director Peter Wheeler made themselves available for election to the post.

"I am delighted to have received the backing of the ERC Board of Directors and I very much look forward to continue working closely with everyone involved with our two great tournaments in driving European club rugby forward," said Mr Lux.

You're aware that this nearly resulted in civil war in France, after FFR threw all it's (and LNR's) votes at Lux, afer LNR wanted Wheeler? Apparently, FFR had an overpowering vote "for the good of French Rugby" which they claimed over-ruled LNR's wishes. That decision is probably why we find ourselves in the current situation.

I was aware that there was a fair bit of conflict between the clubs and the various rugby unions in both England & France. The IRB will back the rugby unions.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

theshanker wrote:Does that mean that all you Jeff supporters will need a BT Vision box?

And anyone who wants to watch their team play a Jeff side in the HEC (if it still exists). That could prove costly, as do BT do the TV on its own or do you need to go with them for the phone/tinterweb too?

Scarlet, you don't actually mean that do you? The European Club Rugby Cup is set in stone. Whoever sponsors it, or whatever form it takes in the future, there is far too much momentum for this to even dent it. It will survive and grow. This is just pre-negotiation sabre-rattling. And none too clever.

What will be even more interesting than this, is how the French react. If they follow suit... the game changes. The French call it the H-Cup. Alcohol advertising you see.

The PRO12 could do the same. Or even include another large nation. It has 4 countries, more votes.And that was always its strength whenever the schit hit the fan.

McCafferty is a gobshoite. He didn't think this through.

Where's Eric Idle when you need him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoaktW-Lu38

Let me see....

...that's the DVD player, the Satellite box, the Saorview box, the Freeview box (just for emergencies if the satellites are shot down in the next nuclear war) and a BT box?

I don't think this rugby gig is worth it... wayyyy too many remote controls sitting on the arm of my recliner!

Nice one Dubbya.

Just looked up what the duties of a company director are:

Wheeler could be in deep do-do over this -

Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement
A company director stands in a special relationship to the company of which he/she is an officer. This special position is known as a ‘fiduciary position’ and the director is known as a ‘fiduciary’.
This essentially means that the director is regarded as holding a position of trust and confidence, and required in consequence to act in a manner which places the company’s interests ahead of the director’s own interests.

---

I don't think Wheeler is putting the interests of the ERC/Heineken Cup ahead of his own!

When you see that, its easy to see why the FFR over-ruled LNR's wishes for the good of French rugby.

SecretFly wrote:Let me see....

...that's the DVD player, the Satellite box, the Saorview box, the Freeview box (just for emergencies if the satellites are shot down in the next nuclear war) and a BT box?

I don't think this rugby gig is worth it... wayyyy too many remote controls sitting on the arm of my recliner!

Ha! True Fly, a man's nightmare. I just use illegal HD links. Phhookem.

Just make it top 5 in English and French leagues, Top 3 from Ireland, top 2 from Wales, and top one from Scotland n Italy. Put the other welsh, Scottish and Italian team into the Anglo-Welsh-Scotch-Italian cup and the winner gets the final spot.

Monies to be allocated on per particpating club basis.

Gibson wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Let me see....

...that's the DVD player, the Satellite box, the Saorview box, the Freeview box (just for emergencies if the satellites are shot down in the next nuclear war) and a BT box?

I don't think this rugby gig is worth it... wayyyy too many remote controls sitting on the arm of my recliner!

Ha! True Fly, a man's nightmare. I just use illegal HD links. Phhookem.

Never heard of such things, Gibbo ......................................................................

Gibson wrote:

Nice one Dubbya.

And if it comes down to a Corporate War - and this is, SKY, Heineken and RaboBank win hands-down. BT couldn't afford that war, they are small-fry. Checkmate.

BT out rank Sky on the moola front - big time, but I'm still looking on the bright side

Clarification from BT

BT Vision is not available in Ireland. Irish viewers will be unable to follow their favourite Permiership club in the AP nor in their home matches against Irish provinces.

If viewers wish to rejoin the United Kingdom, BT will consider issuing cardboard aerials to new subjects for a limited period.

British Golfers will have coverage in Ireland.

Pot Hale wrote:Clarification from BT

BT Vision is not available in Ireland. Irish viewers will be unable to follow their favourite Permiership club in the AP nor in their home matches against Irish provinces.

If viewers wish to rejoin the United Kingdom, BT will consider issuing cardboard aerials to new subjects for a limited period.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Nice one Dubbya.

And if it comes down to a Corporate War - and this is, SKY, Heineken and RaboBank win hands-down. BT couldn't afford that war, they are small-fry. Checkmate.

BT out rank Sky on the moola front - big time, but I'm still looking on the bright side

Dubbya, true. BT is far bigger than I thought. Just checked the FORTUNE 500.
2nd from top after Wallmart(great underpants)? Royal Dutch Shell. The durty, polluting, basterds. Moving in on the Arctic now. "I know, whats left in the World that is beautiful and pristine? Let's phook that up shall we?"

Suddenly, the HC is meaningless...

But, RABO beats BT. We need RABO to take over the Heino(besides winning it year after year). Sorted.

N.B. I feicing HATE Corporations with a vengeance. Especially SKY. But rugby will slowly turn into the soccer-circus that is the English Prem and the CL.

I knew it was coming but this has accelerated it. The ante has been upped and it will be challenged ad-infinitum. Ah well, the kids will love it. Bless em.

Real clarification re English club matches:
"The £152m contract is a 50% improvement on the current deal with ESPN and Sky, which lasts until the end of the season, and includes the rights to all European matches played in England from the 2014‑15 season."

I was intrigued by the above comment from MCafferty, which doesn't specify the amount for Euroean games when he also said:
"The television deal we have agreed with BT will increase the size of the pot for everyone in Europe. Scotland and Italy will benefit: what we want is to increase the size of the cake rather than argue about slices."

"Our television contract will allow that and there could be a similar deal in France. Everyone benefits and far from looking to shrink the game in Europe, we propose to introduce a third competition to include teams from countries like Russia, Spain, Georgia and Portugal."

Wonder does Europe mean the third tier as well? In which case, there may be a bigger cake, but there'll be a lot more wanting slices too. And you can bet all the slices won't be the same size.

Sin é wrote:

Toadfish wrote:I have to say this looks like an incredible bit of business from the AP. They have given notice to the ERC and so the current method of negotiating TV rights for the HC are null and void in terms of the 2014-15 season as the agreement does not exist yet. My guess is the deal with BT will either be structured in such a way that the European Rugby portion is only a tiny fraction of the total deal so that they are only putting a small slice into the pot for any new HC deal or it will represent such a big slice that they are bringing to the negotiating table that they will have the power to negotiate the deal that they want.

To use poker terminology they were dealt the best hand and now they have the nuts.

And equally, the ERC can charge BT/English premiership clubs anything they want for the Away games.

Don't think it would go down too well if Leicester were playing Leinster in Dublin and no one in England could see the match on tv! English premiership club fans could be travelling a lot to away matches if they ever wanted to see them play outside of England.

The ERC cannot charge English clubs because clubs do not buy TV rights they sell them. If Sky say own rights to Rabo clubs home games and BT AP home games then I will need a Sky and a BT subscription if I want to see all games.

Gibson wrote:
The PRO12 could do the same. Or even include another large nation. It has 4 countries, more votes.And that was always its strength whenever the schit hit the fan.

There are no other large rugby playing nations than England and France.

True Pro12 has 4 countries and more votes but England and France together have more TV viewers and that is what broadcasters want. Sky, BT and ESPN do not give a stuff for countries or votes. They want TV subscriptions. AP and Top 14 can deliver that. Pro12 can't.