Heineken Cup Thread

[Morgannwg]

First topic message reminder :

I'm quite looking forward to this years competition so wanted to get a discussion on it going. This years pools look to be the toughest yet; but some said that last year only for Leinster to be the best team from day one through to the final.

Pool 1
Edinburgh
Munster
Racing Metro
Saracens

This may possibly be the toughest group to decide. Much to the disgust of Beshocked, I will predict Munster to pull through and claim top spot. They are not quite on the wane yet. They've made some intelligent signings and promoted from within the Province. The matchday squad for the H-cup will be some force IMO and their ability to play smart rugby, determined rugby and ability to win away from home is why they get my vote (they will probably be the only ones capable of a double against the gunners).

Pool 2
Benetton Treviso
Leicester Tigers
Ospreys
Toulouse

Well things are looking bleak for the Ospreys again. Drew with Treviso away from home in last seasons competition, lost to them this season and are still unable to score tries. Tigers are improving but are not a good H-cup team yet and the Italians will make progression tough for them, so I believe four-time winners Toulouse will top the group.

Pool 3
Biarritz Olypique Pays Basque
Connacht
Harlequins
Zebre

Connacht should be targetting 3 wins as their aim, that's 2 against Zebre and 1 against the English team they beat in last years competition. Quins should be aiming to top the group. But I can not for life of anyone see past Biarritz topping the group (probably being the number 1 seed by the end of the pool stages aswell). In the past few years they have really gone out and punished the weak teams, I predict them to get 20 points from the Connacht/Zebre fixtures and 4-6 points from the matches against Harlequins. Quins are good but Biarritz might revert to some 10 man rugby which will be enough to beat the English champions. The Harlequins may still make the final 8.

Pool 4
Castres Olympique
Glasgow Warriors
Northampton Saints
Ulster

Another very tough one to call here. I don't know much about Castres this season but I get the feeling they're just another unimpressive French outfit with a big budget. They're capable of some big wins at home but won't win the pool. Glasgow were good but changed coaches, which was the decision of the SRU I believe, and have since gone backwards instead of trying to develop their improvement further. Saints are good, but overhyped and not good enough to top this pool. I think Ulster will be the only ones progressing from this group. They are also an improved team, completely outdone in last years final but no doubt learnt a harsh lesson about mixing in with big teams of Europe.

Pool 5
ASM Clermont Auvergne
Exeter Chiefs
Leinster Rugby
Scarlets

Exeter will get a tough introduction to Heineken Cup rugby in this group. I do rate them highly and they are capable of causing upsets, BUT, I think despite how good they've been on the scene they will be whipping boys. Leinster and ASM will give them a harsh introduction to H-cup rugby, a very harsh one. I feel sorry for the Scarlets. Just as they look to be getting a settled team by sorting out their areas of weakness they get grouped with the current european champions and the top French team; also with these a stubborn Exeter Chiefs targetting both of their fixtures in Parc-y and Sandy. I'm going to back the Scarlets to beat Leinster and Clermont once each though. This year I predict Clermont to finally get the upper hand on Leinster and top the group. Leinster have the ability to get enough points, some way or another, enough that will see them still make the top 8.

Pool 6
Cardiff Blues
Montpellier
Sale Sharks
Toulon

Well this is an uninspiring group but here goes. Toulon are the strongest team and will top the group. Montpellier are unknown to me, 'whocares' could shed some light on the French. Cardiff and Sale are rubbish. Blues in particular look very weak up front. Could they turn it around in time with the signings they have made or will they keep hold of average, under-performing players... I wouldn't put it past them doing the double on either Sale or Montpellier though.



Final 8
This isn't in order of points difference as I can't call that, apart from the brackets.
Biarritz (top seeds)
Munster
Toulouse
Ulster
ASM
Toulon
Harlequins (best runners up)
Leinster (best runners up)

There's then the Amlin drop down. Scarlets might get there with their ability to score tries. Looking at this years pools though it's hard to see where teams will win away from home and pick up bonus points. Really tough to call but interested to hear what everyone else is thinking.

[gowales]

I think it'll be

Sarries
Toulouse
Quins (Top seeds)
Biarritz
Saints
Clermont
Leinster
Toulon

Drop down to Amlin

Ulster
Edinburgh
Montpellier

Very unsurprisingly you think that the Welsh teams will do nothing.

Unsurprising to see you have a pop at someone who doesn't praise the regions at every opportunity

[gowales]

Which region do you think will do well Maes?

Seriously, look at the bloody groups and the form of the teams.

Ospreys probably won't make second, they have a chance but i don't think we have the depth.

Scarlets have next to no chance

Blues are pretty rubbish this year, Toulon's squad is ridiculous and Montpellier are a bloody good team as they showed last year

[Mickado]

When I think of Bath in the HC i think of sublime rugby, individual brilliance and long range tries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxdeUrn_Rvk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8qbtSnPUyg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW7-QAXMj_k

Youtube doesn't seem to have one in particular i was looking for, but there's plenty to choose from...

[HERSH]

to be fair.......it is.

Also it is quite clear from your post that you dislike/hate the HC.

I completely understand why you would too. you support a poor team in a poor league. the only reason we need the likes of yourself is to make up the numbers old boy.

Next

You might want to look up past winners of the HC!

how far back will i go??? to when it was all fair and the english teams were winning

Or Pre-Rabo!

so you want Ire, Wal, Scot and Ita to be disorganised again wiht no league and with no games bar the HC.

Yeah thats fair alright. no wonder ye won a few HC in the past

The good old days, when these clubs played proper league rugby and not this easy Mickey Mouse league where by players are rested week in week out

[Mickado]

Lest we forget...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7nEXs7RPUI&feature=relmfu

[beshocked]

Yep Biarritz are definitely favourites in what is probably the easiest pool. Im sure Harlequins can muster a shock win somewhere like last year but likewise they are just as likely to lose to Connacht, like last year, almost home and away.

Don't fancy Ospreys chances of doing much special at the moment, tough group, Tigers and Toulouse have huge budgets and awesome squads full of top internationals. Two of the highest earning clubs in Europe. It makes a huge difference.

You are entitled to your opinion. I'll see what the bookies say.

Pool 1 winner

Munster and Saracens -13/8

Racing - 4/1

Edinburgh 8/1

Pool 2 winner

Toulouse - 10/11

Leicester - 2/1

Ospreys - 4/1

Treviso - 250/1

Pool 3

Harlequins - 10/11

Biarritz- 10/11

Connacht - 50/1

Zebre - 500/1


Pool 4

Northampton - 6/4

Ulster - 7/4

Castres - 11/2

Glasgow - 12/1

Pool 5

Leinster - 4/5

Clermont - 7/4

Scarlets - 20/1

Exeter - 50/1



Pool 6

Toulon - 9/10

Cardiff - 3/1

Montpellier - 4/1

Sharks - 8/1



So much for Biarritz being clear favourites.

[Mickado]

Put yer house on the Scarlets. I would. Luckily, I rent.

[beshocked]

You can get 66/1 for Exeter. Possibly worth a £5 punt.

[GoodinTightSpaces]

to be fair.......it is.

Also it is quite clear from your post that you dislike/hate the HC.

I completely understand why you would too. you support a poor team in a poor league. the only reason we need the likes of yourself is to make up the numbers old boy.

Next

You might want to look up past winners of the HC!

how far back will i go??? to when it was all fair and the english teams were winning

Or Pre-Rabo!

so you want Ire, Wal, Scot and Ita to be disorganised again wiht no league and with no games bar the HC.

Yeah thats fair alright. no wonder ye won a few HC in the past

The good old days, when these clubs played proper league rugby and not this easy Mickey Mouse league where by players are rested week in week out

leave the top 14 out of this.

what league Leinster, Munster , Ulster and connacht playing in then during the great english dominance.

[SecretFly]

If we're talking about who’s being unreasonable how can anyone have an issue of the top 6 teams from the Jeff, Rabo and Top14 qualifying for the HC with the winning league of the HC getting an extra spot plus the winner of the Amilin???????

Seems fair to me.

6 Jeff teams are six English teams. How many times do English people have to be told that the Pro12 league is different - it is...it's different. It has four nations taking part. Ospreys is a Welsh region, Glasgow is a Scottish club, Leinster is an Irish province, Treviso is an Italian club. Four reasons to be proud for the four distinct rugby 'nations'. If Ospreys win the HC, it makes little difference to me as an Irish person. It might as well be Leicester winning it. Some English people think the loyalty of Leinster supporters is to the League, or that the loyalty of Treviso supporters is to the League...it isn't, it's to the 'Irishness' of Leinster within the league..or the Italian pride for Treviso within the league.

The Premier League will never understand that division of identity within the one league...they can't because their league doesn't cater to four distinct 'nations'.

6 Jeff teams is 6 English chances to win the HC. 2 Scottish team places is 2 Scottish chances to win the HC. Deny the nationality issue that comes with leagues and you're denying the truth of what this is about. Chief exec of AP doesn't care which of his sides wins a European competition, he just wants one of them to - one of his English sides is good enough for him. He knows all English premiership fans will take some delight from an English victory. They will. Harlequins winning will be better for an English club supporter than a French side doing it (unless there is an English man in the French team ).

Let's quit the purist PC lingo that goes on here about the 'league' - it's nothing to do with it - it's much more raw - it's tribal, it's nationalism. And nationalism isn't a dirty word. Scotland and Italy deserve their honourary place in a European competition. They're part of the Six Nations family.

[Knowsit17]

The key difference between both leagues is that the Jeff represents only one nation. The Rabo represents four. Or do you think the four regions or the four provinces are capable of staging sustainable separate leagues between themselves without mingling with each other? Two leagues of four sides each and another with only two: Glasgow and Edinburgh playing nobody but each other periodically throughout the year. Is that fair enough for you Hershy?

The PRL and posters who support their notion just resemble bitter, angry little men who've grown fed up with having to take stick off the Rabo for being outplayed every year. I reference the Rabo as a whole even though the Heino isn't about Rabo vs PRL/T14. It's about English vs French vs Irish vs Italian vs Scottish vs Welsh and anyone else who can qualify. The PRL are opportunistically choosing to see it in an offensive context.

Soon they'll be petitioning for an England II to be entered in the 6N and for the Irish/Italians/Scottish/Welsh to have to qualify to even compete.

[GoodinTightSpaces]

If we're talking about who’s being unreasonable how can anyone have an issue of the top 6 teams from the Jeff, Rabo and Top14 qualifying for the HC with the winning league of the HC getting an extra spot plus the winner of the Amilin???????

Seems fair to me.

6 Jeff teams are six English teams. How many times do English people have to be told that the Pro12 league is different - it is...it's different. It has four nations taking part. Ospreys is a Welsh region, Glasgow is a Scottish club, Leinster is an Irish province, Treviso is an Italian club. Four reasons to be proud for the four distinct rugby 'nations'. If Ospreys win the HC, it makes little difference to me as an Irish person. It might as well be Leicester winning it. Some English people think the loyalty of Leinster supporters is to the League, or that the loyalty of Treviso supporters is to the League...it isn't, it's to the 'Irishness' of Leinster within the league..or the Italian pride for Treviso within the league.

The Premier League will never understand that division of identity within the one league...they can't because their league doesn't cater to four distinct 'nations'.

6 Jeff teams is 6 English chances to win the HC. 2 Scottish team places is 2 Scottish chances to win the HC. Deny the nationality issue that comes with leagues and you're denying the truth of what this is about. Chief exec of AP doesn't care which of his sides wins a European competition, he just wants one of them to - one of his English sides is good enough for him. He knows all English premiership fans will take some delight from an English victory. They will. Harlequins winning will be better for an English club supporter than a French side doing it (unless there is an English man in the French team ).

Let's quit the purist PC lingo that goes on here about the 'league' - it's nothing to do with it - it's much more raw - it's tribal, it's nationalism. And nationalism isn't a dirty word. Scotland and Italy deserve their honourary place in a European competition. They're part of the Six Nations family.

finally some sense.

The HC is a European competition.

if no irish, welsh, scotish or Italian team finished in the top 6 of the rabo you would be taking that element away from the HC and hence causing massive damage to European rugby as a whole.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Mickado that proves my point. A soft HC group can propel you to a final and artificially boost your ERC ranking.

PSW I would rather see ranking based on similar to the world rankings. Decent sides give you more points for beating them. Beating Zebre would give you few for example. This would give a fairer reflection.

Why should beating Zebre be equal to beating Leinster? It's not.

Arghhhh. Not this again.

You seem to have a fixed idea in your head of which team is better than which. If rankings do not conform to this notion you have, you want to get rid of them.

I can't see a system which only takes euro games into account that is any fairer than what exists.

Your suggestion may be clear cut when comparing Leinster and Zebre but how do you rank all the teams in between? you want to rank all the teams based on????? to calculate the points that they get for beating each other and then..... rank them based on that?

Ad Mick says no system is absolutely fair, but I can't think of a better one that is not open to someone's opinion of which team is better than which, or else massively overcomplicated.

The current system is so flawed as it is that I would rather see another system. Do you really think Biarritz are the 3rd best side in Europe? Cardiff the 5th best etc?

The ERC rankings are a load of rubbish bar number 1 and 2.

In YOUR opinion. Suggest a farer way that only takes euro games into account, and is not open to someone's opinion of which team is better than which, or else massively overcomplicated?

Go on. I dare you. I double dare you.

[Mickado]

Mickado that proves my point. A soft HC group can propel you to a final and artificially boost your ERC ranking.

PSW I would rather see ranking based on similar to the world rankings. Decent sides give you more points for beating them. Beating Zebre would give you few for example. This would give a fairer reflection.

Why should beating Zebre be equal to beating Leinster? It's not.

Arghhhh. Not this again.

You seem to have a fixed idea in your head of which team is better than which. If rankings do not conform to this notion you have, you want to get rid of them.

I can't see a system which only takes euro games into account that is any fairer than what exists.

Your suggestion may be clear cut when comparing Leinster and Zebre but how do you rank all the teams in between? you want to rank all the teams based on????? to calculate the points that they get for beating each other and then..... rank them based on that?

Ad Mick says no system is absolutely fair, but I can't think of a better one that is not open to someone's opinion of which team is better than which, or else massively overcomplicated.

The current system is so flawed as it is that I would rather see another system. Do you really think Biarritz are the 3rd best side in Europe? Cardiff the 5th best etc?

The ERC rankings are a load of rubbish bar number 1 and 2.

In YOUR opinion. Suggest a farer way that only takes euro games into account, and is not open to someone's opinion of which team is better than which, or else massively overcomplicated?

Go on. I dare you. I double dare you.

Zactly, at least this system is transparent.

[BoyneRFC]

You can get 66/1 for Exeter. Possibly worth a £5 punt.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

to be fair.......it is.

Also it is quite clear from your post that you dislike/hate the HC.

I completely understand why you would too. you support a poor team in a poor league. the only reason we need the likes of yourself is to make up the numbers old boy.

Next

You might want to look up past winners of the HC!

how far back will i go??? to when it was all fair and the english teams were winning

Or Pre-Rabo!

You see Paddy, We actually used to like you when you knew your place. Just played in your own little backwater, did what you were told, rolled over when we wanted you to, and let the adults play the Rugby.

Then you got together with all those other n'er do wells, and formed a League that made you competitive. And above all had the timerity to beat all our best sides constently.

It's just not cricket old chap. We are taking our ball and going home to mumsey

[beshocked]

What a surprise. Two Leinster fans wholeheartedly praising the ERC ranking system.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

What a surprise. Two Leinster fans wholeheartedly praising the ERC ranking system.

What a surprise. A Sarries fan who cant think up a better system. And is pi$$ed off because his team is not as high as his perceived opinion of them.

No one is praising it. Just can't think of a fairer one.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

If you can think up a system where Leinster are not No 1 on merit I will be interested to hear it. Even if it is biased and over the top.

[BoyneRFC]

What a surprise. Two Leinster fans wholeheartedly praising the ERC ranking system.

Did you not just say that it's rubbish bar number 1 and 2? Who is number 1? Leinster. You are creating some sort of ranking in our head based on your own national bias. You do it every year at this time of the year until the inevitable happens and we see 1 AP team out of 8 in the QF.

Optimism springs eternal but have some realism..

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

In my opinion Sarries are a better team than Biarritz and Cardiff. But that's all it is......My opinion. Show me a way of ranking them that way that is fair and maybe I will listen

[beshocked]

Jennifer of course Leinster should be no 1. Just saying you don't give a damn that the ranking system is flawed because your team is at the top.

Yes my team should be much higher but that's not the point. Most of the rankings are a joke.

I already said make it similar to the world rankings. Have similar weighting.

[beshocked]

In my opinion Sarries are a better team than Biarritz and Cardiff. But that's all it is......My opinion. Show me a way of ranking them that way that is fair and maybe I will listen

I suppose that's understandable. It's hard you're right to find a system that would be deemed fair.

[BoyneRFC]

And it would be good for you AP fans to realize your team's limitations and stop building them up to be something they are not.

I see no one on Ivory anything. I said on this thread that I think Toulouse will win it.

Your team gets to be higher up the rankings the more games it wins. Start there.

[gowales]

I'm peed that Cardiff is ranked so high, even though they've reached the Semi finals and won the Challenge cup. The O's have qualified from their pool in the past more consistently than they have.

It's also a bit of a joke that Biarritz get's such easy pools, some French posters on other forums even suggest it's a conspiracy because of Blanco's influence at the top of European rugby

[Knowsit17]

What a surprise. Two Leinster fans wholeheartedly praising the ERC ranking system.

And there it is, the thinly-veiled tribalism finally rears its ugly head. Leinster's success can surely be put down solely to the current format. Playing better than all the other sides can't possibly have anything to do with it... can it!?

[beshocked]

BoyneRFC build them up? I understand my team's limitations more than anyone.

[beshocked]

What a surprise. Two Leinster fans wholeheartedly praising the ERC ranking system.

And there it is, the thinly-veiled tribalism finally rears its ugly head. Leinster's success can surely be put down solely to the current format. Playing better than all the other sides can't possibly have anything to do with it... can it!?

No that's not what I am saying. I am saying that Leinster fans don't care that there are flaws with the ERC ranking system because they are top.

Btw of course Leinster deserve to be top. That's pretty obvious. As obvious as there being flaws with the ERC ranking system.

Surely there has to be a better system. No I haven't thought of a better one yet but does that mean we should all be pleased with the system as it is?

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Jennifer of course Leinster should be no 1. Just saying you don't give a damn that the ranking system is flawed because your team is at the top.

Yes my team should be much higher but that's not the point. Most of the rankings are a joke.

I already said make it similar to the world rankings. Have similar weighting.

I see you took out the Ivory thrones bit.

Look, I know it is irritating when a team keeps winning something. No one likes them. I get that. I stopped watching formula 1 after a few seasons of Michael Schumacher in the best car.

I understand it, and it is a burden that I am willing to carry.

It should make it all the sweeter for the team that will inevitably knock us out of the HC.

[beshocked]

Jennifer I think Leinster well deserve their success. I admire the way you play. Doesn't mean I have to like you. I'll like you if (hopefully when) we beat you.

Leinster are the benchmark to reach. I just feel you don't sympathise with us mere mortals because your team is no 1 in Europe. You don't understand these jostling for positions.

[gowales]

We are not worthy

[Knowsit17]

What a surprise. Two Leinster fans wholeheartedly praising the ERC ranking system.

And there it is, the thinly-veiled tribalism finally rears its ugly head. Leinster's success can surely be put down solely to the current format. Playing better than all the other sides can't possibly have anything to do with it... can it!?

No that's not what I am saying. I am saying that Leinster fans don't care that there are flaws with the ERC ranking system because they are top.

Btw of course Leinster deserve to be top. That's pretty obvious. As obvious as there being flaws with the ERC ranking system.

Surely there has to be a better system. No I haven't thought of a better one yet but does that mean we should all be pleased with the system as it is?

Every Rabo fan, including those of Leinster, should be concerned by a system labelled "fair" which is just a disguised attempt on the part of PRL suited for their interests alone, not those of European club rugby in general.

It's as I said in another comment, the current format is in place and fairer than anything the Jeff/T14 sides could suggest because the Rabo caters for four nations, while the English and French leagues does so for only one each. That is why the qualification pool is larger in the Rabo's case. Add to that that the English and French each supply more clubs into the comp than every individual Rabo union. How is that unfair towards the Jeff sides?

As I said, it's not about Rabo vs Jeff. The PRL are just pretending to see it that way to boost their case.

Don't worry, when Ireland, Scotland and Wales each match the playing population of England, we'll let you know so we can switch to your way

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Jennifer I think Leinster well deserve their success. I admire the way you play. Doesn't mean I have to like you. I'll like you if (hopefully when) we beat you.

Leinster are the benchmark to reach. I just feel you don't sympathise with us mere mortals because your team is no 1 in Europe. You don't understand these jostling for positions.

I didn't start supporting Leinster yesterday. I remember the pain of being the poor relation of Munster for years. I remember the arrogance of some of their fans. I would hope not to be as bad. But you gotta enjoy it at the top too, because there is only one direction you can go.

[Morgannwg]

Pool 5
ASM Clermont Auvergne
Exeter Chiefs
Leinster Rugby
Scarlets

Exeter will get a tough introduction to Heineken Cup rugby in this group. I do rate them highly and they are capable of causing upsets, BUT, I think despite how good they've been on the scene they will be whipping boys. Leinster and ASM will give them a harsh introduction to H-cup rugby, a very harsh one. I feel sorry for the Scarlets. Just as they look to be getting a settled team by sorting out their areas of weakness they get grouped with the current european champions and the top French team; also with these a stubborn Exeter Chiefs targetting both of their fixtures in Parc-y and Sandy. I'm going to back the Scarlets to beat Leinster and Clermont once each though. This year I predict Clermont to finally get the upper hand on Leinster and top the group. Leinster have the ability to get enough points, some way or another, enough that will see them still make the top 8.

There's then the Amlin drop down. Scarlets might get there with their ability to score tries. Looking at this years pools though it's hard to see where teams will win away from home and pick up bonus points. Really tough to call but interested to hear what everyone else is thinking.

You do realise that If you predict Clermont top and Leinster 2nd, that the Scarlets can't then get into the Amlin no mater what they do?

Nope, forgot about that ruling sorry.

[beshocked]

True jenifer. Anyway I think we've talked about the ERC ranking enough.

How do you think Leinster will do this season in the HC? Do you think this is Clermont's time to get one over you?

How do you rate the Scarlets and Exeter as threats?

[Knowsit17]

If England and France were the ones split into four regional/provincial sides each that all qualified without dispute while Wales, Ireland and Scotland were the ones divided into 12/14 clubs each with their own leagues of which only a fraction qualified, the PRL wouldn't have a word to speak against the current system.

[Morgannwg]

I think it'll be

Sarries
Toulouse
Quins (Top seeds)
Biarritz
Saints
Clermont
Leinster
Toulon

Drop down to Amlin

Ulster
Edinburgh
Montpellier

This is the most sensible prediction I have seen.

Oh and why is that? Must be because Sarries are in the top 8! Along with another overrated English team.

[beshocked]

I think it'll be

Sarries
Toulouse
Quins (Top seeds)
Biarritz
Saints
Clermont
Leinster
Toulon

Drop down to Amlin

Ulster
Edinburgh
Montpellier

This is the most sensible prediction I have seen.

Oh and why is that? Must be because Sarries are in the top 8! Along with another overrated English team.

Morgannwg which is the other overrated English team. There are 3 overrated English sides listed.

you evidently haven't had a look at what the bookies think. I think you're just upset he hasn't put any Welsh sides in!

I think Cardiff could sneak in to the quarter finals. They have that habit.

[HERSH]

ERC have killed the HC.

[SecretFly]

Who created the ERC?

[maestegmafia]

I think that come the HEC the three welsh teams will all be looking good, with their top players back they wont be easy teams to beat.

[maestegmafia]

If you can think up a system where Leinster are not No 1 on merit I will be interested to hear it. Even if it is biased and over the top.

Don't worry I think BT are doing that for him...

[HammerofThunor]

For the ERC ranking I would do one of two things. Either change it so only top two in the HEC pools get ranking points. OR change it to ranking points for winning games. That way a team that loses every game but has automatic qualification can't build up ranking points for nothing. Maybe bonuses for knock-out wins and the only ACC points come from QF wins.

[Morgannwg]

I think it'll be

Sarries
Toulouse
Quins (Top seeds)
Biarritz
Saints
Clermont
Leinster
Toulon

Drop down to Amlin

Ulster
Edinburgh
Montpellier

This is the most sensible prediction I have seen.

Oh and why is that? Must be because Sarries are in the top 8! Along with another overrated English team.

Morgannwg which is the other overrated English team. There are 3 overrated English sides listed.

you evidently haven't had a look at what the bookies think. I think you're just upset he hasn't put any Welsh sides in!

I think Cardiff could sneak in to the quarter finals. They have that habit.

Trust you to reply with a load of rubbish. I was referring to the Saints, most overrated team in Europe. Predecessed by London Irish who in turn were predecessed by Gloucester. Both have had decent runs in Europe and get talked up to be world beaters by everyone in England, only for everything to crash. I'm just wondering who is next. Probably not Sarries as not many seem to talk them up and Quins are actually a good outfit, not really overhyped by anyone either. If I were upset at the fact he hasn't put any Welsh sides in then I probably upset myself last night when I wrote my post.

I don't think Cardiff will this time around, certainly not with Phil Davies and the depth they lack. I'd say Scarlets are the most likely even though they probably have the hardest pool in the competition.

[maestegmafia]

I'd say Scarlets are the most likely even though they probably have the hardest pool in the competition.

Last time Scarlets had a new coach and a tough group they were unbeaten semi finalists. They look very good this year too, their backline os one of the best in Europe. Will all depend on how well their first choice front five can shape up.

[theslosty]

Munster

Toulouse
Leicester

Harlequins
Biarritz

Ulster

Leinster

Toulon

That's 3 Irish, 3 French and 2 English...

[Feckless Rogue]

The rankings are a bit of a joke. I thought there's long been a consensus on that on 606. The fact that it goes 4 years back and four years ago has the exact same effect as 1 year ago is dumb. It'll take 4 years in Europe for a team like Exeter to have any sort of a realistic ranking. Leinster could lose every game they play for two years and probably remain a top seed.

Anyway,

I think Clermont will get the edge in bonus points over Leinster in the double header. BUT Clermont are far more likely to lose on the road to Scarlets and/or Exeter in my opinion. So I'd have Leinster as slight favourites to top the group.

[beshocked]

Morgannwg of course you are right. After Quins' humiliating loss to Connacht they are not rated at all. Saints overrated? I don't think anyone has touted them to win the competition. Is it wrong to even suggest Saints might top the pool?

Scarlets the most likely? How did you come to that conclusion?

They have the two strongest sides in Europe in their pool and probably the most underrated and underestimated English side. There's no guarantee Scarlets will get past Exeter let alone the other two.

Cardiff have the best chance because their group is not as difficult as the other Welsh regions.


theslosty that's a pretty good prediction as well.

Where does everyone think the best runners up will come from?

Surely one of them will be in the Biarritz and Quins pool.

Feckless Rogue thanks for your thoughts on Leinster's chances.

[BoyneRFC]

I think Clermont will get the edge in bonus points over Leinster in the double header. BUT Clermont are far more likely to lose on the road to Scarlets and/or Exeter in my opinion. So I'd have Leinster as slight favourites to top the group.

To do that, they will need a 4 try bonus in Clemont Ferrand, because they wont get near us in Dublin.

They dont travel well at all.

[Morgannwg]

Morgannwg of course you are right. After Quins' humiliating loss to Connacht they are not rated at all. Saints overrated? I don't think anyone has touted them to win the competition. Is it wrong to even suggest Saints might top the pool?

Scarlets the most likely? How did you come to that conclusion?

They have the two strongest sides in Europe in their pool and probably the most underrated and underestimated English side. There's no guarantee Scarlets will get past Exeter let alone the other two.

Cardiff have the best chance because their group is not as difficult as the other Welsh regions.

No beshocked it's not that. Everyone can accept Quins are a good team. They beat Munster away to win the ACC, they beat Toulouse away and won the Premiership. They just don't get constatnly talked up and up by Sky Sports, the Media, fans, etc.. Good to see a bit of realism about the expectations for how far they will go. They can top their group but Biarritz are my favourites. Yes in my opinon Saints are, but they could play well enough to top their group, we'll have to see.

Scarlets are the most likely to go somewhere by being the best Welsh team on current form. And they have a few players to come back in which will make them better. But even they're chances are unlikely because of the group they are in, which shows how unlikely Cardiff and Ospreys are to progress. Scarlets could top the group, stranger things have happened in the past. Toulon should breeze that group, I can see them thrashing Cardiff and Sale in France. Blues were good, but haven't been helped by recruitment and coaching.

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