Chavez-Martinez round by round spoilers thread

[BallchinianMuffwig]

First topic message reminder :

I know it's a good few hours away still but I'm still stuck on the rigs and need a good reliable running commentary on the action unfortunately. (keeping away from the result till next wednesday just isnt doable)

So this threads really just to welcome round by round updates/general comments on the Chavez-Martinez action tonight! Much appreciated. Ta

[Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn]

With respect, Hampo, the margin was far nearer to 2-1 of punches landed in Martinez's favour, which is one-sided enough. 3-1 would have seen Martinez land over 530 punches, which would have been quite something!

2.5-1??? Haha

[captain carrantuohil]

You make fair points, Dee. The really knotty question is where we will be placing all these boxers in twelve months. Boxing is about to enter a time of flux, with Floyd, Manny, Klitschko, Maravilla and Gamboa all into their 30s and Donaire about to get there. Interesting times lie ahead.

[Imperial Ghosty]

There is going to be a massive hole need filling when Mayweather, Cotto and Pacquiao do pack it in, there are some big draws aside from them but no one that looks likely to draw in huge crowds and do massive PPV numbers. In an odd way I think we boxing fans could end up with the fights we want but general interest in the sport will wane.

[captain carrantuohil]

We may have to agree to differ about "far worse", Ghosty, although I freely accept that Pacquiao lost to Marquez. However, JMM has always had his number, even in Pac's salad days, so I don't hold this result against him, particularly. Manny is clearly slipping, but I think that the same can be said of a few boxers of his sort of vintage.

[Imperial Ghosty]

I think that it's worse for Pacquiaos p4p standing that there's a boxer he simply can't work out and negotiate, he has to slip down the rankings because of it. I like Martinez and think he's built up a good recent record, he's probably not going to come into consideration for middleweight greatness but Pavlik, Williams, Dzinziruk, Barker, Macklin and Chavez isn't a shabby resume.

[Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn]

I respect your opinion too mate but as ghosty just pointed out, martinez's last lot of fights have been decent. There aint many in the top 10 that could really top that.

[ShahenshahG]

I actualy think the retirement of Manny and Floyd will allow the sport to blossom. Theres an air of gloom over the both of them that casts a shadow over all the bright sparks. Heavy you've got string of 8-10 above mediocre prospects, theres golvkin and a whole host of stellar opponents down at middleweight, the lower weights perpetually provide excellent fighters despite being dispersed over more weights than they ought to be and the eastern european fighters look to be evolving out of their robotic style and into the necessary skills for professional boxing and learning as they go along Korobov/Golovkin and two or three heavies whose names I cant spell.

All in all, once that stale smell lifts - I expect the fans will find someone else to follow. I think had wilder progressively increased his competition as well as a few of the other prospects - we could have seen a vigourous upshot in interest. As it is it seems to be gently creeping up to the point where its dragging casuals in.

[Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn]

http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120915212859AAcwjRz

Hahaha Chavez got robbed apparently

[owen10ozzy]

I think people have read my post and because I have said I didn't have it by as wide a margin, immediately assumed I meant it was close.

It wasn't...I was merely saying that I didn't have the fight as wide as the judges had it. I thought primetime was very much on Martinez last night, didn't stop waxing lyrical about the guy.

Whilst I think he is decent the display last night didn't overwhelm me. As has been pointed out he used the jab very effectively and his footwork was very good....but as people have already said Chavez hardly possesses good footwork he just walks the opponent down and his jab is non-existent.

As I mentioned earlier this morning their seems to be this general feeling that rounds cant be scored as draws anymore.

The stats do show that Martinez was dominant, although I would hazard a guess that a lot of those punches accumulated in the middle rounds.

As I said I will post my round by round score up a little later.

In essence it was a pretty clear cut victory for Martinez over a very game and determined Chavez who attempted to pressure Martinez, make him tire and then take him out late.

I have to question Freddie Roach last night...one would think a World Class trainer would get a fighter using his jab. It was ridiculous...the only plan seemed to be to tire martinez...but Chavez didn't throw often enough to be effective.

As a side not I agree with Captain in that I don't think Martinez is for me either just outside or on the very edge of top 5 P4P. People do seem to have found a love affair with the guy over the last 2 years and rightfully so given the way he exploded onto the World Scene...but I think he is slightly overated.

Also just to add a few things -

John Bloody Wayne - I didn't mention anyone's name with regards to hating Chavez JNR. I just said that the vast majority of people on this forum don't like him.That's my opinion and is based on the numerous comments on other threads about the guy.

Reborn - Insult our attention?....Is that possible in Boxing given people see fights differently. I have merely given my opinion on the fight...if that offends you in any way my apologies. As I said I wasn't even suggesting Chavez for a minute won the fight...just thought the margin wasn't as wide as the judges had it.

[Imperial Ghosty]

Owen

I'm unsure but I do believe that the unified rules of the 10 point must system mean that a 10-10 round can no longer be given and has been the case for many number of years now.

[owen10ozzy]

If that is the case Imperial then I relent...

Although if it is indeed true then I think it need's rectifying. Why on earth can you not have drawn rounds?...Bit laughable for me that two people who go swinging for each can't have the equal share of 3 minutes of boxing..

[Imperial Ghosty]

Regional fights can have drawn rounds but not world title fights, I believe but am not 100% on that.

[Gerry SA]

Dan Rafael has reported that King Sergio has gone to hospital with a broken left hand and a tear in his right knee.

Just shows how much better he is than the fraud Chavez Jr.

[6oldenbhoy]

I watched the fight earlier this morning on mute. I scored it 118-109, Chavez just didn't throw enough. I felt it was a strange fight from Chavez, on plenty of occasions he had Martinez on the ropes, I imagine where he wanted the fight to be. But he didn't apply any pressure, allowing Martinez to fight his way out on almost every occasion. His performance was just very flat.

With regards scoring rounds even, I agree that even rounds are seldom scored these days, Jim Watt in particular, seems incapable of doing so. But last night, I personally didn't see any even rounds, as Chavez just didn't throw enough. The 8th round was really the only close round, but again I felt Martinez did enough. Chavez seemed content to just amble forward, allowing Martinez to throw a jab to the head, left to the body and move.

[owen10ozzy]

Cheers for that Imperial....

I will believe you for the time being ...as I don't have the energy to go find out myself. If it's true then my scorecard last night would have to change.

Did you, or anyone else, catch the Leo Santa Cruz v Montel fight last night? The young Cruz looked very very decent. He has a cracking left hand and knows how to work the body...

I have also heard that the Maidana & De Leon fights were good, the former a fight of year candidate. I will have to find a way of watching those at some point today.

All in all a fantastic two weeks of boxing. Long may it continue given the drivel served up over the last 12 months previous!

[6oldenbhoy]

Good win for Macklin as well. Signing with DiBella was a good move.

[captain carrantuohil]

Agreed, 6oldenbhoy. Would love to see Macklin in with Geale, now. Think he wins that one, even if he has to travel to Australia for it.

[captain carrantuohil]

Santa Cruz is a throwback to the great Mexican bantams of the 70s. That left to the liver....yikes. Ponce de Leon is beatable, of course, but what a good value fighter he is, a remark which also applies to Maidana. De Leon's win also adds yet more lustre to the reputation of Gamboa, who toyed with the Puerto Rican.

[6oldenbhoy]

Yeah, so do I. I haven't been overly impressed by Geale. Out worked the notoriously lazy Sturm, but I thought Macklin 'beat' Sturm more convincingly. I'm unsure how much Geale earns in Australia, but a St Patrick's Day bout in MSG would sell, and would probably be Geale's biggest payday.

Good to see you back, Captain. Missed your input at the Olympics.

[Herman Jaeger]

What are people's thoughts on a rematch. Many saying unwarranted but a lot of Chavez haters around.

I do think he deserves one because Martinez looked out on his feet and on the verge. That was a fight changing knockdown imo. Thousand percent sure he was ko'd in the next round. If Martinez had looked fully rcovered then no rematch. That's how I would see it anyway. So wholly justified in my book.

[captain carrantuohil]

The Olympics were actually another factor that reawakened my love for the sport, which had gone missing a bit for a few months, 6oldenbhoy.

Your enthusiasm for, and expertise in, the amateur scene, is precisely what the board needs. This is where tomorrow's pro stars will come from, after all. For my part, thought that Campbell was excellent and merited his gold, and that Joshua was a little lucky on a couple of occasions, but has limitless potential as a professional, where I'm not sure that Luke hits quite hard enough to prosper at truly elite level. Of the rest, I'm pleased that Stalker and Evans seem to be inclining to stay amateur until Rio. There should be a good mix of youth and experience in 2016.

Geale's a game plodder, basically, who has overachieved up to now. Not sure that the Aussie will be persuaded to travel to New York for Paddy's Day, but that's an occasion that would be a good craic for the spectator!

[88Chris05]

No need for a rematch in my eyes, Jaggery, at least not an immediate one. I wasn't at all impressed with Chavez Jr - you just can't give him a round until the twelfth. I was surprised at how many rounds he allowed Martinez to dictate the pace in; here's a guy who must have been around thirteen stone in the ring, 15 lb or so heavier than his opponent, and he's boxing off the back foot throwing precious little leather.

One good round, after being soundly outclassed for the previous eleven, isn't enough to justify another crack, for me.

[manos de piedra]

Geale doesnt seem to mind travelling. I can see him being willing to go to the U.S for the fights and bigger paydays.

[Herman Jaeger]

No need for a rematch in my eyes
...



Fair enough Chris, but that surprises me coming from a man with your understanding.


Look I'm no big fan of Chavez(strangely started to root for him as the fight progressed,) but don't really see how Martinez can move on. Sorry but to me it's clear cut. Martinez was on the verge of being rendered unable to defend himself. It doesn't matter to me that he was comfortably ahead. Nor that he showed more technical ability. Chavez deserves a rematch in my eyes.

Not actually desperate to see the rematch in all honesty, would quite like to see Chavez in with one of the British trio. Just feel it's fair Chavez gets one. As for Martinez don't care what he does.

[88Chris05]

Fair enough then Jaggery, likewise. I just think that Martinez being so utterly dominant for the eleven rounds beforehand suggests that Chavez even managing to get him so dazed and wobbly must be considered very much the exception, rather than the rule. I'm also not so sure that Martinez would definitely have been knocked out had there been an extra round after the twelfth as you believe, but then again, that's entirely a matter of opinion. He may have been stopped, but I don't think it's a concrete claim.

Anyway, Martinez may be forced in to the rematch, as he has precious little options which could be considered viable outside of it. So Chavez might just get his chance to improve on last night's showing, whether the majority of boxing fans are happy about it or not!

[BoxingFan88]

Chavez got BADLY hurt from the broken nose int eh 5th, he pretty much covered up and waited for Martinez to punch himself out. That's the only reason he got the knock down, because Martinez was tired.

If Chavez had been able to walk him down then he would have, he took an absolute hiding.

[manos de piedra]

You have to wonder also what the WBCs relationship with Martinez will be. Chavez is clearly their golden boy, and he is practically family with them. If Chavez stays at MW then Martinez could find himself being squeezed by the WBC.

[captain carrantuohil]

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if the WBC ordered a rematch on some spurious grounds relating to the 12th round. Something along the lines of Chavez being denied the opportunity to KO Maravilla because the referee has been found to be related to Cristina Fernandez Kirchner.

In a sane world, Chavez would need a couple of fights to re-ascend to a title shot, for all that his standing has probably been improved by yesterday's events. I feel that we should remember that Martinez is the lineal middleweight champ, so he is the only possible game in town for any aspiring 160 lb contender. With that in mind, I would like to see him fight Geale or Golovkin, but I'm almost sure that it will be Chavez II instead, with a slight possibility of Mayweather as an alternative.

[manos de piedra]

At the moment I wonder if Chavez would be keen to jump back in though. The last round might have given some confidence, but he wouldnt be making the same kind of money this time around. I think the last split was about 65/35 to Chavez. He wouldnt get that again and even if the WBC ordered a rematch.

They could just strip him on a flimsy basis as they did last time and have Chavez fight for the vacant against a more winnable opponent. Or force Martinez to fight some unheralded guy that no network will pick up and then strip him if he refuses. Maybe a little far fetched, but the way the WBC operate these days it wouldnt surprise me. Wards WBC belt at SMW I would also say is in iminent danger if Chavez decides to move up.

[azania]

Chavez got BADLY hurt from the broken nose int eh 5th, he pretty much covered up and waited for Martinez to punch himself out. That's the only reason he got the knock down, because Martinez was tired.

If Chavez had been able to walk him down then he would have, he took an absolute hiding.

I have this sneaky feeling that the knock down happened because Chavez hit him hard enough. I could be wrong though.

Also being hit by 300 punches and missing the majority of your punches i more tiring (imo) than throwing 900 punches.

[azania]

Anyone know what weight Chavez came in at?

[Seanusarrilius]

nobody knows, neither fighter did the unofficial weigh in

[WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs]

I would also question whether chavez would jump straight back in with him. Let's be honest, he was outclassed and Martinez will have put a lot of doubts into his head. At this point he might be reflecting on what martinez said regarding his ability and how it has been proven true.

What chavez doesn't want is to be beat again and have 2 losses in a row which is the most likely outcome. Another thing is that Chavez was hurt by Martinez' power which is a first for him. He couldn't walk through Martinez like everyone else and his lack of ability then got shown up. Chavez will most likely have 2 or 3 soft fights before a rematch when Martinez is almost 40

[trottb]

Martinez was on the verge of being rendered unable to defend himself. It doesn't matter to me that he was comfortably ahead. Nor that he showed more technical ability. Chavez deserves a rematch in my eyes.

Sorry but that is ridiculous. Martinez, whilst tired, was nowhere near being unable to defend himself. The fight was extremely one sided, more so than Froch v Ward. It seems that 1 good round is enough to justify a rematch for some people.

[Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn]

Martinez was on the verge of being rendered unable to defend himself. It doesn't matter to me that he was comfortably ahead. Nor that he showed more technical ability. Chavez deserves a rematch in my eyes.

Sorry but that is ridiculous. Martinez, whilst tired, was nowhere near being unable to defend himself. The fight was extremely one sided, more so than Froch v Ward. It seems that 1 good round is enough to justify a rematch for some people.

Completely agree, but what I disagree with is even that the last round was as one sided for Chavez Jr as some are making out. Watching it again after Chavez knocks Martinez down, Sergio gets up, touches his toes to show hes ok then stands and trades with Chavez, landing plenty more back and stopping Chavez in his tracks!!

It was blatenly clear Martinez was tired, you could see when he was forcing himself to stand up, but he wasn't doing an Enzo Mac dance or anything. Chavez won about 25 seconds of that whole round.

[BoxingFan88]

I have watched that 12th round many times now, to see the heart and courage of Martinez. He was fighting with a broken left hand and damaged cartilage in his knee when he fell.

Chavez put him down hard, but he regained his senses quickly and was actually able to take some monster shots afterwards. He did not hold and he fired back and backed Chavez up. Martinez was not as hurt at the end as people would have you believe. His powers of recovery are excellent.

That was one of my favourite rounds in all of boxing, epitomises every ounce of respect I have for the boxers who step between the ropes. Martinez went up in my estimations and he was already one of my favourite fighters.

What a warrior!

[trottb]

Summed that up peferctly there BoxingFan.

It was real edge of your seat stuff. It is the reason why I love boxing knowing that everything can be turned on it's head in a heartbeat.

[Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn]

It was the defination of saying a fighter has a "punchers chance"

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