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Hero

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Olly

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Real Ale Sociedad - TwisT The London Silly Nannies - SodhatAC ALittleSilhouetteoOfAMan (AC ALSOAM) - MarkyViva City - VivaPaulScholes Athletico Bilbao Baggins FC - Hero
Jacamos United - The Special Juan

Table

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Treble's Revenge - onlytreblewinners


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Championship

Holton FC - Olly

Tactics

Barearselona - Fernando

Injuries

Real NADrid©®™ V2 - Nadeem

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Substandard Liege - Afro

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Results

Go Ahead Eagles - Russell_Elmo

Table

Gotham City Rovers - TheBrahmaBull

City Of Norwich FC - ncfc_Tooze

It would also make your tactics more important as you would not have players who can do everything, but need to pick players with the skills to carry out your tactics (or pick tactics to suit your players).

I voted for the low budgets and I agree the TP limit might be best climbing a bit slower.

I still think a star player would be good though. Maybe 1 each.

I like the thought of making it more of a game of management by needing to pick your players and tactics more carefully (i.e. not playing the long ball and picking Peter "50p head" Crouch )

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:Do I send my vote to Olly. What do I have to put in the vote?

Yep. Vote on Premier League games, and send to Olly.

Put in score, scorers and a comment on why you voted that way

By pizza topping, is it one thing you put on a pizza, or like a combination you usually get together?

I tried a bit more of a direct game with Andy "the new divine ponytail" Carroll, and it didn't seem to work.

I've often wondered whether I could build a team of long ball and physical football merchants and play that way on here. I don't know how it would be taken, but it's a thought for the reboot...

If you are playing in a game where the teams are more on a par with Championship/Lower Premier League standard, rather than top of the CL tree, then the long ball may be more at home and more effective.

The less "perfect" the players are, the more important tactics are and the better the game IMO

I don't really know championship players though, I don't know about other managers but it should be at least PL standard.

I'd favour a £50m general budget, and £50m star player budget.

I don't think we should ban players from certain clubs. If I want to sign a Barcelona or Man U reserve for £3m I should be able to.

Season 1 was £150m + £50m star player budget
Season 4 should be £100m + £20m star player budget IMO, a drop of £80m is more than sufficient.

BigFellasAfro wrote:If you are playing in a game where the teams are more on a par with Championship/Lower Premier League standard, rather than top of the CL tree, then the long ball may be more at home and more effective.

The less "perfect" the players are, the more important tactics are and the better the game IMO

I'd think the tactics would be effective against good sides too. Especially sides full of these prancing foreign fairies with their football skills.

We'd go and give them all a sniff of our boot polish and win 1-0 with a goal from a set piece.

Alternative option, everyone has a £100m budget, no limits on TP's. If you want to spend it all on Ronaldo and scrape together free transfers to field an XI that's your choice, but no limits on players (still only 2 TP's per week)

We can't have a Ronaldo x 1,000,000 situation going on, so I'm against that.

onlytreblewinners wrote:I don't really know championship players though, I don't know about other managers but it should be at least PL standard.

I'd favour a £50m general budget, and £50m star player budget.

It was just an example, but if the budget meant we started at bottom of Prem standard rather than top is what I was kind of getting at.

Marky - I agree. it was just a momentary thought I had.

Marky wrote:I don't think we should ban players from certain clubs. If I want to sign a Barcelona or Man U reserve for £3m I should be able to.

Season 1 was £150m + £50m star player budget
Season 4 should be £100m + £20m star player budget IMO, a drop of £80m is more than sufficient.

Sounds good.

We had two star players in season 1, so how about just 1 like Sod suggested.

And also, I think the max value in season 1 was £15m, how about reducing that to £10m and having it go up £500k every two weeks

With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

I'm in favour of a lower starting pot and cap though my concern would be as a result would a player that their manager knows is an absolute speed merchant and fantastic at beating the FB on the outside and can hit a ball onto a sixpence from 40 yards but who isn't well known yet then just end up being weak links in the team.
We all know the Premier League gets the most exposure so with reduced fees it will force people to play lesser known players from other leagues and it might end up with a 'Fan' situation simply because others don't know of them yet as they've not appeared on the SkySportsScout or are a wonderkid on FM13.

Hero wrote:I'm in favour of a lower starting pot and cap though my concern would be as a result would a player that their manager knows is an absolute speed merchant and fantastic at beating the FB on the outside and can hit a ball onto a sixpence from 40 yards but who isn't well known yet then just end up being weak links in the team.
We all know the Premier League gets the most exposure so with reduced fees it will force people to play lesser known players from other leagues and it might end up with a 'Fan' situation simply because others don't know of them yet as they've not appeared on the SkySportsScout or are a wonderkid on FM13.

On the flip side, maybe it would push people to expand their knowledge a little bit? I know I would make an effort to, rather than ignoring names I don't know.

That happens now Hero

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

Its all part of the fun Hero.

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

And hence tactics would become more important. It is possible to have tactics to stop Huddlestone being effective playing from deep. Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi you can put whatever tactics you like a) they are that good, whatever tactics you put it is difficult to stop them and b) the Galacticos name often means your tactics are irrelevant anyway

And Hero - the game has always been about how they are rated on here rather than actually how good they are, you know that! Otherwise Dzscud would be better rated and Vucinic would never have still been available in TPs in season 3!

Would it force them too though if already they don't when there is a bigger pot.
Some struggle to know how players are doing for the likes of Juve until they see them v Chelsea, think they will then research a player for Bologna etc?

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

What am saying is you will see people put down on tactics telling their players to do such things when they are not good at it, adding extra ability to them or boosting up players with limited talent such as asking the likes of Pennant to cut in and hammer home like Robben would. Huddlestone can't hit a 40 yard cross field ball like Scholes can so if you ask him to do it he will most likely fail in the attempt of doing it.

You will have to play to these players strengths, I can't just say Wes Brown do this do that because he won't be able to do it otherwise I could put myself in the team.

I think we have a core of managers who have now been in these games for a long time and I think everyone will admit their knowledge of players has improved from playing this game. This would just be carrying this on to the next level down of players

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

What am saying is you will see people put down on tactics telling their players to do such things when they are not good at it, adding extra ability to them or boosting up players with limited talent such as asking the likes of Pennant to cut in and hammer home like Robben would. Huddlestone can't hit a 40 yard cross field ball like Scholes can so if you ask him to do it he will most likely fail in the attempt of doing it.

You will have to play to these players strengths, I can't just say Wes Brown do this do that because he won't be able to do it otherwise I could put myself in the team.

Then I don't see the issue?

It would be for the managers to utilise the talents their players have. I have trust that the voters will be able to spot that Chris Eagles won't be dribbling round 3 players and bending it in the top corner.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

What am saying is you will see people put down on tactics telling their players to do such things when they are not good at it, adding extra ability to them or boosting up players with limited talent such as asking the likes of Pennant to cut in and hammer home like Robben would. Huddlestone can't hit a 40 yard cross field ball like Scholes can so if you ask him to do it he will most likely fail in the attempt of doing it.

You will have to play to these players strengths, I can't just say Wes Brown do this do that because he won't be able to do it otherwise I could put myself in the team.

Was it Fan that always used to do that with his tactics? Declare that every player could run like Usain Bolt etc though in reality they had the accelaration of Mertesacker.

I like Marky's idea of 100m budget, and if you want to spend it all on one player, so be it.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

What am saying is you will see people put down on tactics telling their players to do such things when they are not good at it, adding extra ability to them or boosting up players with limited talent such as asking the likes of Pennant to cut in and hammer home like Robben would. Huddlestone can't hit a 40 yard cross field ball like Scholes can so if you ask him to do it he will most likely fail in the attempt of doing it.

You will have to play to these players strengths, I can't just say Wes Brown do this do that because he won't be able to do it otherwise I could put myself in the team.

You are bang on Viva, and then it is about voters voting accordingly if managers are not using their players to their strengths, or getting them to try things they don't normally do. If you saw a tactic to Jermaine Defoe saying get on the end of high balls into the box, you'd mark it down as "they are not going to have much of a goal threat"

I think that's a terrible idea that will undermine the league, personally.

onlytreblewinners wrote:I like Marky's idea of 100m budget, and if you want to spend it all on one player, so be it.

I'm against that. One of the good thing about this league is that you don't have the big names in it. You think RVP = x2, imagine if someone had Messi or Ronaldo

Hero wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

What am saying is you will see people put down on tactics telling their players to do such things when they are not good at it, adding extra ability to them or boosting up players with limited talent such as asking the likes of Pennant to cut in and hammer home like Robben would. Huddlestone can't hit a 40 yard cross field ball like Scholes can so if you ask him to do it he will most likely fail in the attempt of doing it.

You will have to play to these players strengths, I can't just say Wes Brown do this do that because he won't be able to do it otherwise I could put myself in the team.

Was it Fan that always used to do that with his tactics? Declare that every player could run like Usain Bolt etc though in reality they had the accelaration of Mertesacker.

It was. For every Vidal, there was a Bryan Ruiz

BigFellasAfro wrote:

Hero wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:With lesser quality players would the 4-2-3-1 work? You can't instruct the likes of Warnock to bomb down the wing pushing the opposition players on the back foot or Stephen Ireland to play forward killer passes to the main striker, Huddlestone to dictate the play from deep pinging out passes, keeping possesion, playing the quick one twos.

Why not?

They're football players that can follow instructions. It might mean they are less good at what you're asking of them, not that they will be incapable of it.

What am saying is you will see people put down on tactics telling their players to do such things when they are not good at it, adding extra ability to them or boosting up players with limited talent such as asking the likes of Pennant to cut in and hammer home like Robben would. Huddlestone can't hit a 40 yard cross field ball like Scholes can so if you ask him to do it he will most likely fail in the attempt of doing it.

You will have to play to these players strengths, I can't just say Wes Brown do this do that because he won't be able to do it otherwise I could put myself in the team.

Was it Fan that always used to do that with his tactics? Declare that every player could run like Usain Bolt etc though in reality they had the accelaration of Mertesacker.

It was. For every Vidal, there was a Bryan Ruiz

I think there is a certain antipathy building towards that kind of tactic these days, where you spend time bigging players up in your tactics. Generally I think it helps little and it's best to trust the voters have done their homework.

BigFellasAfro wrote:

onlytreblewinners wrote:I like Marky's idea of 100m budget, and if you want to spend it all on one player, so be it.

I'm against that. One of the good thing about this league is that you don't have the big names in it. You think RVP = x2, imagine if someone had Messi or Ronaldo

You'd have one or two big names but the rest of your team wouldn't be great.

Eventually though you would end up with the dream team of players by not having a cap.

Woo Woo Woo, whats the big debate about? Im doig my votes.

Pepper them with attacks.

we have a bandman gangsta in the league

I'm having my attack go at them in a Gangnam style next week.

I think you are all over complicating something that has worked well for three seasons for being simple.

Take the existing rules from Season 1. Use them for the reboot. The only thing that needs to be discussed is:

1. Starting Budget
2. Star Player Budget
3. TP starting limit and how often/how much it increases.

Personally I would use the exact same rules as when this all started. For instance, Hazard would not have been that high on peoples list in Season 1. I am guessing he would be sought after now for the reboot. Other players, like Eriksen, were highly rated. And now look at them.

Through the passage of time ratings have gone up and down. That is where the skill lies when you pick players for the draft. I really don't think rules need to be tweaked because it has worked so well.

Twist is the voice of reason.

TwisT wrote:I think you are all over complicating something that has worked well for three seasons for being simple.

Take the existing rules from Season 1. Use them for the reboot. The only thing that needs to be discussed is:

1. Starting Budget
2. Star Player Budget
3. TP starting limit and how often/how much it increases.

Personally I would use the exact same rules as when this all started. For instance, Hazard would not have been that high on peoples list in Season 1. I am guessing he would be sought after now for the reboot. Other players, like Eriksen, were highly rated. And now look at them.

Through the passage of time ratings have gone up and down. That is where the skill lies when you pick players for the draft. I really don't think rules need to be tweaked because it has worked so well.

It worked well until you get towards the end of season 2. The TP market has dried up and domestics are nigh on impossible as managers won't lose their first teamers unless improving.

But I think you are spot on with keeping it identical apart from the 3 points (which is what I pretty much said at the start of the discussion, although not as succinctly as you)

BigFellasAfro wrote:

TwisT wrote:I think you are all over complicating something that has worked well for three seasons for being simple.

Take the existing rules from Season 1. Use them for the reboot. The only thing that needs to be discussed is:

1. Starting Budget
2. Star Player Budget
3. TP starting limit and how often/how much it increases.

Personally I would use the exact same rules as when this all started. For instance, Hazard would not have been that high on peoples list in Season 1. I am guessing he would be sought after now for the reboot. Other players, like Eriksen, were highly rated. And now look at them.

Through the passage of time ratings have gone up and down. That is where the skill lies when you pick players for the draft. I really don't think rules need to be tweaked because it has worked so well.

It worked well until you get towards the end of season 2. The TP market has dried up and domestics are nigh on impossible as managers won't lose their first teamers unless improving.

But I think you are spot on with keeping it identical apart from the 3 points (which is what I pretty much said at the start of the discussion, although not as succinctly as you)

In that case, if that is peoples main gripe, lower the TP limit and increase it slowly every two weeks. That should sort out the TP problem.

I don't buy that domestics have dried up. The problem with Season 2 was that it was during the off season. All those rated for the end of the last football season were rated at that level for the entire summer (with nothing to back it up at that time). Obviously people chose to buy players that were playing in the Euro's. But on the whole, those players from South America that did well at the end of the last RL season were still rated when they hardly played all the way through our Season 2.

This time, if I have my dates right, at least 2 new season should run before the RL season ends. When you think about that, domestics WILL happen as players lose form, get injured etc etc. My own personal view is there should not be a season on here while the summer break is on in RL.

TwisT wrote:

BigFellasAfro wrote:

TwisT wrote:I think you are all over complicating something that has worked well for three seasons for being simple.

Take the existing rules from Season 1. Use them for the reboot. The only thing that needs to be discussed is:

1. Starting Budget
2. Star Player Budget
3. TP starting limit and how often/how much it increases.

Personally I would use the exact same rules as when this all started. For instance, Hazard would not have been that high on peoples list in Season 1. I am guessing he would be sought after now for the reboot. Other players, like Eriksen, were highly rated. And now look at them.

Through the passage of time ratings have gone up and down. That is where the skill lies when you pick players for the draft. I really don't think rules need to be tweaked because it has worked so well.

It worked well until you get towards the end of season 2. The TP market has dried up and domestics are nigh on impossible as managers won't lose their first teamers unless improving.

But I think you are spot on with keeping it identical apart from the 3 points (which is what I pretty much said at the start of the discussion, although not as succinctly as you)

In that case, if that is peoples main gripe, lower the TP limit and increase it slowly every two weeks. That should sort out the TP problem.

I don't buy that domestics have dried up. The problem with Season 2 was that it was during the off season. All those rated for the end of the last football season were rated at that level for the entire summer (with nothing to back it up at that time). Obviously people chose to buy players that were playing in the Euro's. But on the whole, those players from South America that did well at the end of the last RL season were still rated when they hardly played all the way through our Season 2.

This time, if I have my dates right, at least 2 new season should run before the RL season ends. When you think about that, domestics WILL happen as players lose form, get injured etc etc. My own personal view is there should not be a season on here while the summer break is on in RL.

Thats a fair point, but even now it is difficult to buy players unless you have something you are willing to swap. Look at Viva, he can't spend his cash and get a striker for love nor money.

But what you are suggesting on lowering the TP is more or less what has been proposed (see the reboot page in admin). By starting with a lower budget, you start further down the valuation of players and is like a pyramid where the lower the value, the wider the pool of players at those values. Cash will become more of an asset again as it will be worth accepting cash offers when you can replace them more easily.

And therefore, you probably need to make cash harder to come by... lower bonuses?

Money needs to be tighter, instead of giving money for putting up tactics we should give an extra injury if someone does not vote and do tactics.

BigFellasAfro wrote:

TwisT wrote:

BigFellasAfro wrote:

TwisT wrote:I think you are all over complicating something that has worked well for three seasons for being simple.

Take the existing rules from Season 1. Use them for the reboot. The only thing that needs to be discussed is:

1. Starting Budget
2. Star Player Budget
3. TP starting limit and how often/how much it increases.

Personally I would use the exact same rules as when this all started. For instance, Hazard would not have been that high on peoples list in Season 1. I am guessing he would be sought after now for the reboot. Other players, like Eriksen, were highly rated. And now look at them.

Through the passage of time ratings have gone up and down. That is where the skill lies when you pick players for the draft. I really don't think rules need to be tweaked because it has worked so well.

It worked well until you get towards the end of season 2. The TP market has dried up and domestics are nigh on impossible as managers won't lose their first teamers unless improving.

But I think you are spot on with keeping it identical apart from the 3 points (which is what I pretty much said at the start of the discussion, although not as succinctly as you)

In that case, if that is peoples main gripe, lower the TP limit and increase it slowly every two weeks. That should sort out the TP problem.

I don't buy that domestics have dried up. The problem with Season 2 was that it was during the off season. All those rated for the end of the last football season were rated at that level for the entire summer (with nothing to back it up at that time). Obviously people chose to buy players that were playing in the Euro's. But on the whole, those players from South America that did well at the end of the last RL season were still rated when they hardly played all the way through our Season 2.

This time, if I have my dates right, at least 2 new season should run before the RL season ends. When you think about that, domestics WILL happen as players lose form, get injured etc etc. My own personal view is there should not be a season on here while the summer break is on in RL.

Thats a fair point, but even now it is difficult to buy players unless you have something you are willing to swap. Look at Viva, he can't spend his cash and get a striker for love nor money.

But what you are suggesting on lowering the TP is more or less what has been proposed (see the reboot page in admin). By starting with a lower budget, you start further down the valuation of players and is like a pyramid where the lower the value, the wider the pool of players at those values. Cash will become more of an asset again as it will be worth accepting cash offers when you can replace them more easily.

And therefore, you probably need to make cash harder to come by... lower bonuses?

I think for the reason you have stated means that bonuses are even more important. The 2m tactics/results should remain as it does make people do tactics/vote. Especially, as you say, money would be more important with lowering the TP limit.

Media page 1m is not needed. It was a good idea, but its a far too easy way to pick up 1m.

I would say that the best tactics of the week bonus should actually happen this time. Make it 3m. That puts even more emphasis on doing good tactics, because if you put the effort in, not only could you win the match, but get a bonus as well. A simple poll every Sunday with all our names on it, and everyone voting (or via PM if you so wish).

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Money needs to be tighter, instead of giving money for putting up tactics we should give an extra injury if someone does not vote and do tactics.

Good idea.

Instead of doing it in admin, can we decide what happens in the reboot here so we can all have a say?

TwisT wrote:
Media page 1m is not needed. It was a good idea, but its a far too easy way to pick up 1m.

Especially as most people enjoy putting stuff up on the media, so it doesn't need a bonus. That would reduce the cash income by £12m per season, which is a decent chunk

onlytreblewinners wrote:Instead of doing it in admin, can we decide what happens in the reboot here so we can all have a say?

What do you think we are doing now?

The admin page is just a written log of what has been proposed so we can remember

I'm thinking of keeping a moustache but don't want the creepy child snatcher look.