Best and worst crowd atmosphere

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A mate gave me a ticket to the Champions match last night in Madrid. At the break I was wishing I had stayed at home and didn't leave because at least being seated next to the City fans (on the Madrid side) I had some entertainment. Madrid fans are notoriously quiet and like the bullfighting crowd at Las Ventas are incredibly snobby when it comes to applauding their own team. They will only start making a noise when they feel their team has performed at their best. So for much of the match last night, you could've been forgiven for thinking it was a home match for Manchester City.

I like how football fans make up songs and have little dance moves and clapping sorted out. In rugby we tend to hear songs like Bread of Heaven in Wales, Flower of Scotland at Murrayfield, Swing Low at Twickers and then Waltzing Matilda occasionally. NZ only has singing in the form of songs from the 80s like Slice of Heaven blared out over the loudspeakers. We tend to have very simplistic chants like All Blacks (took us ages to think that one up!) and boo the kickers. Sometimes I think we try to turn test matches into the Wellington sevens and it comes off as forced.

I've seen test matches in Australia, NZ, England, Paris, Cardiff, Murrayfield and Dublin. I find the French are fickle when it comes to supporting the team. If you put points on them, they go quiet. I admire the crowds in Ireland for their hushed silence when the kickers are on and think generally this is the best place to see the respect for the kickers. I hear other fans claiming it happens in test matches elsewhere but my impression was that Ireland stand out in this regard. Even in Madrid in the pubs, they go quiet when the kicks are on and shush people! An Irish friend here went to the Munster match against the ABs and said it was the best atmosphere he had seen anywhere. It's an intimate ground in terms of the proximity of the crowd to the match but even I got a sense of that with the hair standing up on my neck when that haka reply by the 3 Munster Kiwis started up.

So where have the best matches for crowd atmosphere have you been to? I'd prefer test match but if a club game stands out then by all means indulge us. Frankly I found the din of the Mooloo supporters in Waikato unbearable but I imagine if you're from the Tron you wouldn't mind so much. I'd love to see a test match in the high veld in South Africa but I think in terms of volume the most vocal supporters for me were in Wales. I guess it depends also on the teams squaring up against each other. Wales (well frankly any 6N side apart from Italy) vs England, SA vs NZ, are matches that tend to bring out the best in the supporters. But like a music concert sometimes it's hit and miss when it comes to crowd reaction.

When NZ was qualifying for the football World Cup, they say the qualifying match against some Middle East team (yes, we really had to foot it with the best to make it to SA!) brought out a response from the crowd unseen before in NZ. I think it came close to it in the 2011 final but in general I don't think Kiwi fans make for good vocal supporters. I can think of amazing games I've been to in NZ but not really ones where the crowd has stood out. I've been to a Calcutta match where the rugby was pretty dire played in bleak conditions but the crowd atmosphere kept my blood pumping. I'm not a fan of the song Swing Low in a rugby context but I must admit Twickers in full voice distracts you from the game and you want to look around and take in the crowd.

So the best crowd atmosphere for me was Wales vs England at the MS simply because of the volume. When the Real Madrid crowd choose to cheer, you really hear it (but Atletico vs Rayo last Sunday was incredible in terms of two local supporters trying to outdo one another for volume). This was the case for me at MS. Maybe I was sitting in front of particularly raucous pink cowboy hat and daffodil supporters but I've been to music concerts where the decibel levels were lower. The worst was probably France vs Australia in Paris in 98 when Australia stuffed them and the crowd that was hushed and sullen for most of the match ended up booing their own side when they touched the ball. Similarly I remember being ashamed of the Lancaster Park idiots booing every time JK touched the ball in the twilight of his illustrious career. So what stands out for you?

One of the best, sitting with about 20 Samoan's at the Waikato Stadium v Wales at the world cup 11. I have seen many international game there but minus the majority of Kiwi's the colour of the Welsh and Samoan fans together was simply wonderful. A hard fought win for Wales made it extra special. Great atmosphere, shame it was tainted later by a idiotic moinority of Samoan's.

Best I've had is Sandy Park. (But thats another story!!!! )

Worst - Liberty / Cardiff City Stadium, waste of time going IMHO.

It's nice to see how much recognition the MS is getting on this thread, without wums comming on here and making up stories about Welsh supporters.

LordDowlais wrote:It's nice to see how much recognition the MS is getting on this thread, without wums comming on here and making up stories about Welsh supporters.

The MS is a pretty good stadium LD, and coupled with its location its hard to beat. I've been to 4 internationals (and one HEC final) there, and they've all been great experiences, regardless of what happened on the pitch (I was there for NZ vs France 2007 and that display of poor rugby from both sides in Wales vs Ireland 2010*)

Everywhere has it's share of obnoxious supporters, luckily they're generally a small minority that don't get in the way too much
(in 2007 when we left the MS there was a bloke in an ABs jersey literally jumping up and down throwing a tantrum at the result. And in 2008** for the Wales vs NZ AI I was sitting 2 rows behind a wiry Welshman who spent the whole game swearing at the ref (it was educational, I learnt some new words )



* It was a bit like NZ vs SA at the weekend - both sides deserved to lose
** or 2009, my memory for dates is hazy. The game where Dan Carter stopped a breakaway Welsh lock with a head high tackle that the ref missed

KRD the bloke jumping up and down may have been Doug Howlett. Was it in the car park?

disneychilly wrote:KRD the bloke jumping up and down may have been Doug Howlett. Was it in the car park?

Nah it was on that open area on the railway station side of the stadium. Seeing him made me realise that it was just a game. And a couple of minutes later when I saw some French fans holding a big cardboard sign saying "hey Kiwis can you sell us your tickets to the final" I was able to laugh.

The M Stad would literally be the best stadium in the world if it had decent turf.

The amount of times you see players slip on it and cut it up from scrums is ridiculous.

The ball is just too slippery at the MS when the roof is shut.

Plus the pitch! Look what happen to Bananaman when he was against Shane he slipped at the point of contact and was made to look a fool.

HERSH wrote:The ball is just too slippery at the MS when the roof is shut.

Plus the pitch! Look what happen to Bananaman when he was against Shane he slipped at the point of contact and was made to look a fool.

Nice one Hersh.

Actually, it must have been the atmospherics that stopped Barnes' whistle from blowing for French infringements in the final 60 minutes in 2007.*







*I'm joking, NZ deserved to lose that game. But if Barnes had been even remotely competent we'd have pinched it ...

I recommend you watch the next game Pumas vs AB near Buenos Aires.
Buenos Aires crowd is very different from what you saw in Mendoza, BA people are more passionate, and I promise you, that the stadium will be a "real boiler".

Sounds excellent Arg. The Latins know all about passion for their teams. They go mental the whole game thro. Love it.

On the French grounds. Ive been to Toulouse, The Stade Municpal(v Toulouse in the HC), Clermont Ferrand, Stade De France, Agen.

All a great experience.

Agen was special. Last day of the season and they just needed a draw to get into the TOP14. Place was jammed. Every kid, parent and granny in the town, was at the game. Unreal atmosphere. Chanting for the full 80. They won and the place went ballistic.

Toulouse fans are special at home and away. But in their own house, man. Ernest Wallon is something to behold. The noise. The colour. The singing. The pints with them afterwards. They know the game and respect great play - no matter where it comes from. A special ground and club. Atmosphere in-built.

Clermont-Ferrand. Ive been with this lot 3 times now and I tell ya. There are NO fans like them on the Planet. They are superb when they travel. Travel in happy hordes. But to be down in the Stade Marcel Michelin for a game, is a rugby experience, par-excellence. Before, during and after the game. You always end up temporarily deaf, extremely drunk and happy. Its a given.

Great ground atmosphere, does not need 50k - 80k, in a vast concrete bowl. It just needs true passionate fans in a packed 10k stadium to make it happen.
Their ground holds 19,000. But it sounds like twice that.

As your online-attorney, I'd advise you to stick Stade Marcel Michelin on your rugby grounds to experience list. It's feicin brilliant.

Tickets, flights and hotel booked for Dec 9th. Yo.

Best - rugby Alley in Marseilles 2007 RWC - England had beaten Aus that day and a few lucky tourists managed to find their way to Rugby Alley where the locals watched the NZ France game on a big screen....Frenchmen are renowned for their surliness but this was the greatest single rugby night of my life.....except for being in that bar in Lan Kwai Fong in March 2005 after the HK 7s final Wales had to play Ireland....

You can't beat the Millenium for atmos, HK for fun, and walking up the tunnel at Loftus for the Lions decider made the hairs stand up on my neck, it was like that scene from Gladiator when they were queueing outside the arena and the guy goated himself.

The after Match Braai (Barbeque) in the car-park at Kingspark is pretty epic. Sometimes you'll even meet the players!

Well on the subject of France, I was on a rugby tour in Nantes, 2007. We attended the Wales vs Canada game. The atmosphere at there ground was pretty average. Going around the town centre later on was amazing. The whole of Nantes was buzzing. There were masses of Welsh, but there were also French and rugby fans from all over. Can't remember the street names, but every street was the same; full of opposition rugby fans, socialising, laughing and getting steamboated in the sunshine. Of course there was the non-stop rugby boy banter back n fourth. We were all dressed up as 70s rugby players too (imagine the sideburns and wigs), got challenged to scrum against some other Welsh blokes, a few of us ended up driving them backwards into a table and making a mess. All in the name of fun and banter though. Sometimes you hear bad things about the French but they're very welcoming and hospitable. I have yet to meet an unfriendly rugby supporter on my travels. Good times, wish I could go back!

I went to Millennium stadium for Munster v Toulouse HC final in 08 i think, and have to say that was electric, absolutely fantastic atmosphere.

123456789 wrote:There was a cracking mexican wave to be fair

The death-nail to any atmosphere at a game!

I went to Sydney for the 09 Bledisloe with my brother and some mates. I thought it would have been pumping really but it was flatter than I expected so that was a bit disappointing. Also was disappointed seeing a bloke next to us with his kid, and every time Giteau hit a penalty he'd just yell abuse at the Kiwis. Admittedly they weren't the most well-thought out insults (I remember him yelling the words "Suck sh!t which I hadn't heard since primary school) but it was really disappointing to see that sort of example given by a parent to his kid.

disneychilly wrote:I went to Sydney for the 09 Bledisloe with my brother and some mates. I thought it would have been pumping really but it was flatter than I expected so that was a bit disappointing. Also was disappointed seeing a bloke next to us with his kid, and every time Giteau hit a penalty he'd just yell abuse at the Kiwis. Admittedly they weren't the most well-thought out insults (I remember him yelling the words "Suck sh!t which I hadn't heard since primary school) but it was really disappointing to see that sort of example given by a parent to his kid.

Australian sports fans are known for their class Disney! They grew up in that generation I guess where they were set the example by their sportsmen themselves.

Remember Alan Langer replacing his victory speech with instead shouting "St George Can't Play!" over and over into the microphone?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/allan-langer-regrets-st-george-cant-play-jibe/story-e6frep66-1225931093298

I wasn't cheesed off with the whole Aussie crowd AWOP-almost all were good-natured. Again a small minority ruining it for everyone else and believe you me I've seen a few people make me cringe for being a Kiwi. I did want to give him a mouthful though but again it's not good for a kid to see his father getting undermined and abused by a total stranger no matter how much he deserved it. At the NZ Ireland test in Croke Park I was sharing some banter with an Irishman and some lady piped up a barb that was a little more pointed. I had a ready made retort to put her in her place but I saw her next to a wee boy so I shut my gob.

Any sledge Langer would give would be negated by his ridiculous voice so I doubt the Dragons would have been too worried.

Are you living in Madrid? I used to live in Madrid and I really disliked Real Madrid because their fans were very boring plus I couldnt stomach the whole galacticos vibe.

Instead I used to go to Rayo Vallecano games in Vallecas which is a relatively poorer suburb of Madrid. The fans there are incredibly passionate.

So much so I remember they had cages all round the pitch to keep them in. Every time a opposition player had a throw in the fans would climb up the cages and spit on them. Pretty reprehensible I know but at least the noise was deafening and the atmosphere was much better.

I believe that they are in the primera liga again. You could also try going to Getafe or Athletico games who are also based in Madrid.

Atmosphere at Ireland v England games tends to be very good.

disneychilly wrote:I wasn't cheesed off with the whole Aussie crowd AWOP-almost all were good-natured. Again a small minority ruining it for everyone else and believe you me I've seen a few people make me cringe for being a Kiwi. I did want to give him a mouthful though but again it's not good for a kid to see his father getting undermined and abused by a total stranger no matter how much he deserved it. At the NZ Ireland test in Croke Park I was sharing some banter with an Irishman and some lady piped up a barb that was a little more pointed. I had a ready made retort to put her in her place but I saw her next to a wee boy so I shut my gob.

Any sledge Langer would give would be negated by his ridiculous voice so I doubt the Dragons would have been too worried.

It's true DC that there is stupid people every where you go. Despite the welcome NZ get in Edinburgh, I have also seen a lot of "casual racism" directed the way of players of Samoan and Maori descent by a Murrayfield crowd that wasn't so polite or constructive for the children of the parents responsible.

Do you mean making comments about their race/ethnicity/skin colour etc. Or do you mean talking about their reputation for less than legal tackles.

Well RS, It started with some confusion and then comparison between two players who look similar and then on to a kind of zoo animal that allegedly looks similar. Then some impersonations which did supposedly suffice for any of the three.

Ah the former so. Thats out of line.

I thought you meant when people point out that Samoans etc "all" tackle illegally.

An exaggeration but not racist.

red_stag wrote:Ah the former so. Thats out of line.

I thought you meant when people point out that Samoans etc "all" tackle illegally.

An exaggeration but not racist.

Agreed. But the latter does border on racism when terms such as "savage tackling" start being bandied around.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

red_stag wrote:Ah the former so. Thats out of line.

I thought you meant when people point out that Samoans etc "all" tackle illegally.

An exaggeration but not racist.

Agreed. But the latter does border on racism when terms such as "savage tackling" start being bandied around.

Ah not really. I use the term savage in a number of ways. I have pals who say "savage" when something is cool or neat or whatever the feck people call it now.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

red_stag wrote:Ah the former so. Thats out of line.

I thought you meant when people point out that Samoans etc "all" tackle illegally.

An exaggeration but not racist.

Agreed. But the latter does border on racism when terms such as "savage tackling" start being bandied around.

what a ridiculous and ignorant statement

Actually Red
I would say a statement like that is pretty racist.

nganboy wrote:Actually Red
I would say a statement like that is pretty racist.

rubbish

nganboy wrote:Actually Red
I would say a statement like that is pretty racist.

Really? Jeez there is being PC and there is just walking on egg shells.

nganboy wrote:Actually Red
I would say a statement like that is pretty racist.

There is no race worse in racisim than Maori, the filth I have heard them throw at white people playing rugby is beyond belief. Unfortunately stamping out racism in NZ is miles behind other countries unless you are racist against a Maori and then watch the tears and whinging start. Fortunately I am not a racist but have witnessed enough to see the reality.

Yes good old Winston Peters is a great example

Savage is used as a compliment over here-so if it were an Irishman using it be wary of the context. "Oh that was a savage tackle" and "She had a savage body on her" are two such expressions of savage as a positive adjective.

disneychilly wrote:Savage is used as a compliment over here-so if it were an Irishman using it be wary of the context. "Oh that was a savage tackle" and "She had a savage body on her" are two such expressions of savage as a positive adjective.

Exactly. You have learned our ancient and mysterious ways.

If you can only master our inferiority complex towards the NZ All Blacks I will be eternally indebted - I am 23 years old and it looks like if I live to be 1000 we wont beat you guys!

It is strange. You even see it in BOD (though he has other reasons to be legitimately aggrieved against the New Zealanders too), and that is most surprising as he is a champion player.

I don't want to sound like a patronising @rsehole but it'll happen. We'd rather lose to Ireland for the first time than England for the next time, trust me. You did beat Australia in a WC match before us. Just wish you'd done the same in 91 and 03...

DC you patronising @sshole!

Watching Inter playing at San Siro was pretty awesome, talk about fanatics. Watching the babaas play at twickers was underwhelming, cool stadium though.

Disney, I think some of our players (example Paul O'Connell) have never really played well against NZ.

I think if we do win it will be a young and unburdened team who are not afraid to fail and are willing to throw caution to the wind.

disneychilly wrote:Admittedly they weren't the most well-thought out insults (I remember him yelling the words "Suck sh!t which I hadn't heard since primary school) but it was really disappointing to see that sort of example given by a parent to his kid.

What's wrong with that Disney? It's succinct, subtle, easy to remember. It gets the point across but with a certain quiet dignity.

But I am surprised to hear that from a rah rah crowd, they're usually a bit more sophisticated than that. An NRL or State of Origin game on the other hand...

Full Credit wrote:[What's wrong with that Disney? It's succinct, subtle, easy to remember. It gets the point across but with a certain quiet dignity.

True the old state house rugby fans are a little more uncouth

disneychilly wrote:

Full Credit wrote:[What's wrong with that Disney? It's succinct, subtle, easy to remember. It gets the point across but with a certain quiet dignity.

True the old state house rugby fans are a little more uncouth

I used to think NZ society didn't have any class divisions, until I worked security at an NZ vs England league test at Lancaster Park. Thrown coins hurt when they hit you, especially the big old NZ 50c piece.

Hmm....I’d like to think that the term ‘state house rugby’ had died a death in NZ but looks like I’m sadly mistaken.

RL people are some of the most humble, down to earth and hardworking people in NZ. I’m white, non state-house in upbringing so back in the 80’s/90’s I would have been in a minority but I’m still absolutely proud of my roots in RL. It’s a great sport which is misunderstood at times and gets a kicking from the white old boys union brigade all the time. I never felt better than telling my First XV coach to f**k off when he told me I’d only play for him if I dropped league. It was a typical view back at school in the day, if you didn’t play union you were some sort of social outcast.

KRD – sorry to hear about your 50c battering! On the flip side, Rugby fans have also been known to throw things from the ‘safety’ of the crowd. France 2009 anyone? Neither sport is particularly saintly regards crowds in NZ.

True enough Mintie. A few weeks later at an NPC semi final Cookie Time gave away bags of mini-cookies outside the ground. Those swing in the air impressively when thrown. But they don't hurt when they hit you, unlike coins, and there was next to no "F-U officials" which happened in the league match.

I was rather shocked that I could tell the difference between the 2 groups of fans at the time.

I enjoy watching league, never really got much chance to play it (there were no RL clubs in Marlborough back in the day)

Ah apologies if the term offended you Mintie. I'm not very PC and I found the term hilarious when I first heard of it I admit. Kind of like calling terrestrial channels Welfare TV. But I recall us having knocked about in similar circles-there were plenty of state houses about, some inhabited by friends and family of mine. So it's not coming from a high and mighty standpoint, I just thought the term was funny. Don't mind a bit of league too having been a Penrith supporter since 91 but you don't get it here.

Some Kiwi crowds have been pretty crap really in both sports. We're not supportive of our own team enough and we boo the opposition too much. But I'd like to think we don't spit on opposition players like the rural Argie fans have done in the past.

KRB you're lucky it wasn't an Aussie 50c. Now that's a weapon.

Disney – understand mate, no hard feelings at all. You’re right about our circles growing up and I think Lower Hutt encapsulates all that is good about NZ’s lack of social divides at times. We mix with all sorts from all backgrounds.

It's a shame so many tests are played in Paris. Looks like they have the worst fans whereas down south - not Marseille - in the rugby heartland, you get the impression it'd be the best place in the world to see test rugby. Looks like the club rugby supporters will be the lucky few in that regard.

I wonder though if there's a difference between club supporters and test rugby supporters. If I think about NZ, you do tend to see and hear more of the diehard fans at provincial games. Ireland seems to be similar. France as well. Does the location of the main grounds dictate so much what fans will be like?

It's a shame this thread has turned out the way it has, what was the title again ? Ah yes, the best and worst crowd atmosphere, not which race/fan/person who is the most racist, lets all stop being so precious about all this and start talking rugby again.

LordDowlais wrote:It's a shame this thread has turned out the way it has, what was the title again ? Ah yes, the best and worst crowd atmosphere, not which race/fan/person who is the most racist, lets all stop being so precious about all this and start talking rugby again.

Don't you think racism indicates the worst in crowds or do we just dig holes and bury our heads

rainbow-warrior wrote:

nganboy wrote:Actually Red
I would say a statement like that is pretty racist.

There is no race worse in racisim than Maori, the filth I have heard them throw at white people playing rugby is beyond belief. Unfortunately stamping out racism in NZ is miles behind other countries unless you are racist against a Maori and then watch the tears and whinging start. Fortunately I am not a racist but have witnessed enough to see the reality.

It is true in some respect that there is a sort of cultural racism inbuilt as Maori recognise two groups of people in NZ, the Maori and the Tauiwi. So there is Maori people and everybody else. It always seemed a bit racist to assume that the classification of non-Maori was encompassing. It indicates a disposition to a bi-cultural view point which is not really valid in a the multi-cultural present day world.