Are Saracens shooting themselves in the foot?

Saracens have rightly or wrongly come out of the blocks with good results playing some less than attractive rugby. However are they really maximizing their chances of winning matches?

My own feeling is that they are the equivilant of a prop who spends every scrum just trying to win penalties. This seems to be how they treat their rucks.

But with a cracking backine and some very talented ball playing forwards is this really a smart way to do things.

They really cut loose in their opening match of the season - Chris Ashton scored two tries and he showed real class in setting up Barritts try as well.

Since then however Sarries have managed just one single try in their previous four games.

I think they have a really class team and are capable of doing a lot better than they currently.

I agree. I think the problem is that Saracens are simply too predictable.

To be the best you have to got to get ahead of the rest.

Looking at the opposition and results -

London Irish - bonus point win was par result. London Irish have been poor. Their defence has been paper thin.

Sale - only 1 try. Saracens did actually try and attack a little bit but really poor execution. Created some opportunities but awful handling. Still too predictable.

Leicester - neither side were incisive in attack. Both were too predictable. 0 tries. Handling from both sides was atrocious. Probably the most handling errors I have seen from Saracens.

Exeter - didn't see it but by all accounts weather was appalling. Again 0 tries. I expect lack of creativity and weather were to blame.

Quins - Quins do have a very good defence let's not forget. 0 tries. A few opportunities went missing. Still too predictable.

I think it's down to being too predictable, lack of confidence in attack. The pack being so focussed on nullifying the opposition instead of generating momentum.

I'll be honest Beshocked. When I saw the HEC draw I groaned.

I do a regular podcast for 606V2. In week one of the season I didn't hesitate in naming Sarries as who I thought were most likely to win the premiership.

You have got a great pack of course but also a real arsenal of weaponry in the backs.

Were I a Saracens fan I would want the opposition coach sitting down thinking "Are they going to spin it out to Ashton and Barritt and Strettle or will they use those bruisers in the pack - FFS I don't know what way they will play it".

Just as Leinsters poor start has given lots of ammunition to the "Rabo is a boring league" brigade the displays from Saracens has fuelled the flames of "Premiership is so boring".

But I think Gloucester, Saints, Harlequins, Wasps and even lesser pedigree teams like Worcester have played some good rugby.

Completely right.

They are very good at what they do but spoiling, delaying and being a pain in the @#s$ will only get you so far.

Any team that's one dimensional in their play will only get so far. Look at Leinster years ago when they could only run the ball, or Munster when they could only kick and maul in the past couple of seasons.

Beshocked I do find it amazing that a team with so much talent can have such poor ball skills 1 try against the basement boys of the league is a joke, do you have a backs coach and do you rate them?

There can also be a real intention to paint a 'style' picture in the minds of future opposition, only to break with the routine when it might be most advantageous.

Non creative rugby, 3rd on the table, HEC on the doorstep. Sometimes what you see isn't the truth.

Secretfly, maybe it could certainly work but would be the ultimate definition of "playing the long game".

As it stands I am not really as worried about facing Saracens now as I initially was. As the title of the post says they appear to be shooting themselves in the foot.

red stag I don't think anyone thinks the likes of Barritt and Ashton are going to be that dangerous when they don't have the space.

Yappysnap

Kevin Sorrell is an old Sarries boy. Only been in the job since Andy Farrell left for England.

Saracens were trying some fairly good stuff but just when the ball needed to be held it was inexpicably dropped.

Decision making and vision are such underrated attacking weapons IMO. The problem with a player like Farrell Jr is that he suffers in this area.

How you sharpen it up I don't know. Every game you see squandered try opportunities that would have resulted in a try if the right decision was made.

I don't think Saracens have done enough clever kicks. They kick a lot of course but they are normally up and unders and deep for their players to chase.

Not enough clever little dinks or grubbers though IMO.

I remember looking at the attacking stats from LondonTiger. Stuff like clean breaks and metres gained - Saracens didn't do badly. They kicked and passed a lot.

red_stag wrote:Secretfly, maybe it could certainly work but would be the ultimate definition of "playing the long game".

As it stands I am not really as worried about facing Saracens now as I initially was. As the title of the post says they appear to be shooting themselves in the foot.

It's important for Saracens that they go into the Munster double header 2/2 in the HC. Of course that's far from guaranteed. No 1 priority is the win.

It's that win at all costs mentally. Makes them tough to beat but means they don't care how.

I've noticed a big change in how Munster kick this year.

In years gone by it was all about the up and under.

Now we chip and grubber a lot. Against Ulster I counted 4 chip kicks.

We also scored a lovely try against Edinburgh where we varied it - we got our winger to chip ahead into space and our flyhalf to run onto it - nobody saw it coming !!

Stag, Penney better not lower his guard any. He should expect - and plan - to meet the side you initially feared more than the one you're witnessing right now.

If that (to be feared) side doesn't show up - well, at least nobody will have been caught out. Being caught out league-watching would be negligent.

True Beshocked Saracens are very difficult to breakdown and always compete. But we know this already.

Their problems as you point out are making the most of try scoring chances and then from that getting those precious bp's.

Saracens need to use Hodgson a lot more, and if they are to use Farrell maybe they should either use Goode at 12 as a second fly half or get Barritt to show some of his skills (he was once a very good 10).

A think a change of captain would be good too, I remember some of your best stuff was played under Joubert back in 09/10. But under Borthwick his first thought is always "slow and steady".

That's exactly it - red stag - unpredictability.

Mix it up. As long as you don't confuse your own players!

Keeping the opposition guessing is all part of the game.

Just seen the side against London Welsh. Not very pleased with it.

Penalty machine Stevens is starting!

So much rotation. Maybe we aren't taking London Welsh seriously enough.

Ashton,Goode,Barritt,Joubert,Brits,Brown are all rested.

It's not a bad side by any stretch but I can see a disjointed performance. Should win but it's going to be close.

beshocked wrote:
So much rotation. Maybe we aren't taking London Welsh seriously enough.

Ashton,Goode,Barritt,Joubert,Brits,Brown are all rested.

Ye'd do well in the Rabo Pro 12 with that attitude

I watched the Saracens last weekend but they weren't inspiring at all.

red_stag wrote:

beshocked wrote:
So much rotation. Maybe we aren't taking London Welsh seriously enough.

Ashton,Goode,Barritt,Joubert,Brits,Brown are all rested.

Ye'd do well in the Rabo Pro 12 with that attitude

Leinster are our heroes. The gods of rotation. Their 2 HCs show how rotation is done.

Let's just hope we don't get a similar result to when they played Connacht.

I can already see the articles if Saracens lose......

Rotation is good and evil all in one.

Biltongbek is a win not heroic and inspirational? Nah too boring correct?

By the way what is a salary cap?

Beshocked I think its a hat made of celery.

I think Sarries are incredibly good at what they do. Under the present set up they are always going to be one of the best sides in the Jeff. But since winning it they have been worked out slightly and I do feel this will hinder them winning it again. Likewise, the relative one dimensional approach will limit success in Europe.

I will say watching the intensity that Sarries bring to a game is a joy to watch (but the style of play isn't!)

beshocked wrote:

Leinster are our heroes. The gods of rotation. Their 2 HCs show how rotation is done.

I'm keeping that in my little black note book (no not that one the other one) for future reference, beshocked

I think that if Sarries used thier back line a little more they would be in the top 5 of Europe easily. No team will push them around so it only leaves their backs to use the posession.

They do depend a little on the Ref for Pens so going to Thomond bit not cough up many.

As we have all seen if you depend on the ref to call pens you come unstuck.