Expand the Pro 12 to 15...

Why my thread on the Pro 12 being better than the Aviva was locked I don't know... It was an opinion, am I not allowed those, when some on this site get away with nothing but wind ups...

... anyway...

On the basis that it is excepted by respected, ex players that the Pro 12 is better than the Aviva, I think it is now time that the Pro 12 invites the top 3 teams in the Aviva to leave that league and join the Pro 12 (Making it Pro 15) so that they can play the game at the next, higher level.

The Celtic teams allowed the Italians to join to assist the development of rugby in Italy, perhaps now is the time that we can allow the English in so that they can develop their game to the level needed to allow them to compete in the 6 Nations.

Please no WUMs, as this is a serious debate in order to open discussions on how we can develop English Rugby.

Sadly much more subtle than some who were allowed to post... but I suspect it won't last

It would make a great league.

I reckon England rugby would benefit from focusing their talent into three teams and joining the Rabo. However, it would obviously be the death of the AP.

London Irish and London Welsh should join the Rabo... Reckon it would do them both good

If I'm going to be honest, and I am by no means English, the current top 5 teams in the AP would tank the top 5 teams in the PRO12 if played on a league basis, week in week out. Just my opinion.

However teams lying 5-10 in the PRO12 would have the edge over teams lying 5-10 in the AP. Again, just my opinion.

Regarding results in the Heineken Cup, knock out competition rugby (and I count the pool stages, because you can effectively only afford one loss in 6) is a completely different beast to league rugby and so cannot be compared, requires different mentality, team management, coaching, et cetera.

KickAndChase wrote:If I'm going to be honest, and I am by no means English, the current top 5 teams in the AP would tank the top 5 teams in the PRO12 if played on a league basis, week in week out. Just my opinion.

However teams lying 5-10 in the PRO12 would have the edge over teams lying 5-10 in the AP. Again, just my opinion.

Regarding results in the Heineken Cup, knock out competition rugby (and I count the pool stages, because you can effectively only afford one loss in 6) is a completely different beast to league rugby and so cannot be compared, requires different mentality, team management, coaching, et cetera.

So, in a competition where you can't afford to lose as often (HEC), the top ranked Pro12 sides prove better adapted to those conditions than the top ranked AP sides?
And yet in a league format, where obviously the implication is that you can afford more losses and still be in a position of strength come the end of the season, the top AP sides, that are more comfortable with the extended competition where you can afford to lose more games, would 'tank' the top Pro12 sides that are conditioned to trying to win each and every game?

Hard to compute that one - especially given that you also suggest Pro12 is more competitive in real terms than AP as the bottom half of the Pro12 you consider to have an edge on the bottom half of the AP. That means its tougher for the top Pro12 sides to stay top of their league than it is for top AP sides to stay up in theirs. That also means the Pro12 top sides can't rest easy and in order to stay top they have to keep up the habit of trying to win every game (HEC format) - EVEN in their league.

Going by HC

Leinster scraped a win vs Exeter at home.

Leicester hammered the O's.

Saracens crushed Edinburgh away from home.

The bottom AP side, Sale just about beat Cardiff

Quins beat the the 4th best Irish side away from home.

Saints got the try bonus vs Glasgow.

5-1 to the AP in the first two rounds of the HC.

beshocked wrote:Going by HC

Leinster scraped a win vs Exeter at home.

Leicester hammered the O's.

Saracens crushed Edinburgh away from home.

The bottom AP side, Sale just about beat Cardiff

Quins beat the the 4th best Irish side away from home.

Saints got the try bonus vs Glasgow.

5-1 to the AP in the first two rounds of the HC.

Thats because it is an easier league and you lot rest the players in order to be fresh for hte HEC

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Going by HC

Leinster scraped a win vs Exeter at home.

Leicester hammered the O's.

Saracens crushed Edinburgh away from home.

The bottom AP side, Sale just about beat Cardiff

Quins beat the the 4th best Irish side away from home.

Saints got the try bonus vs Glasgow.

5-1 to the AP in the first two rounds of the HC.

Thats because it is an easier league and you lot rest the players in order to be fresh for hte HEC

To be fair to you my team did rest players for the HC actually but we still won in the AP.

beshocked wrote: Leicester hammered the O's.

I'm no Ospreys fan by any stretch but hammered is probably unfair. Given up until the intercept pass there was nothing between these sides going in to the final qtr. On another day Flood misses his man and Ospreys score a try. Sure they caved a little in the final period but anyone watching the game this scoreline flattered Leicester and surely home advantage helped them home on this occassion.

Cant see Leicester getting anywhere near that scoreline down at the Library.

BTW just to point out that on the basis of results clearly the qualification system favours the battle hardened English Clubs. I vote they receive less places and less money for their efforts. Fair's Fair after all

beshocked wrote:Going by HC

Leinster scraped a win vs Exeter at home.

Leicester hammered the O's.

Saracens crushed Edinburgh away from home.

The bottom AP side, Sale just about beat Cardiff

Quins beat the the 4th best Irish side away from home.

Saints got the try bonus vs Glasgow.

5-1 to the AP in the first two rounds of the HC.

Huh it reads as such a biased post.

Firstly Leicester hardly hammerred Ospreys when the decision was made by an interception try at the end.
Secondly, Glasgow showed they were on par if not better than Saints and arguably would have won without their injuries.
Well everyone know Edinburgh were crap and Saracens are one of the team to beat this year (will be seriously tested against Munster though).
Haven't seen the other game so can't comment.

VinceWLB wrote:

beshocked wrote:Going by HC

Leinster scraped a win vs Exeter at home.

Leicester hammered the O's.

Saracens crushed Edinburgh away from home.

The bottom AP side, Sale just about beat Cardiff

Quins beat the the 4th best Irish side away from home.

Saints got the try bonus vs Glasgow.

5-1 to the AP in the first two rounds of the HC.

Huh it reads as such a biased post.

Firstly Leicester hardly hammerred Ospreys when the decision was made by an interception try at the end.
Secondly, Glasgow showed they were on par if not better than Saints and arguably would have won without their injuries.
Well everyone know Edinburgh were crap and Saracens are one of the team to beat this year (will be seriously tested against Munster though).
Haven't seen the other game so can't comment.

Biased post? Have you read the thread title?

I would call a 17 point margin with a try bonus a hammering tbh. 39-22 is a very convincing scoreline. Ok you could argue hammering is harsh - how about emphatic or convincing?

Glasgow lost, Saints got the try bonus. You can use if and buts all you want. I still say that about certain matches.

Edinburgh were crap but that's what Saracens do. They make many sides look bad.

Question.

If you expand the pro 12 to 15 teams, where are you going to get the weeks to play the extra matches?

Biltong wrote:Question.

If you expand the pro 12 to 15 teams, where are you going to get the weeks to play the extra matches?

Some of the same weeks the Top14 uses and another one. Not that I'm for the idea anyway as it's hard enough to keep 12 sides on side and interested!