Area of strength for NZ, Eng, Ire, and now Wales?

I'm talking about the back three. NZ, England and Ireland have had a fair bit of strength in depth in this area for a little while now.

Apologies but this is only off the top of my head.

NZ; Dagg, Smith, Jane, Savea, Taylor, Gear, Guildford, Maitland.

Eng; Foden, Brown, Ashton, Strettle, Simpson-Daniel, Wade.

Ire; Kearney, Fitzgerald, Bowe, Trimble, Zebo, Earls.

I think now that players in Wales have gone elsewhere for more game time it has improved our depth in this area.

Wales; Halfpenny, Cuthbert, North, Stoddart, Robinson, Prydie, Evans, Williams.

But not all of these guys will be getting a call-up. Personally I'd go with the nailed on back 3 along with Robinson (to mix things up and go for our Welsh conventional winger) and Prydie (the best possible replacement for Halfpenny). Although will that be fair to the form of Liam Williams and Dan Evans... What do we reckon? Please mention any players you think I missed (for either team).

Gilroy is the best of the lot..... but forget it we're shoite, thanks for the mention though...

He slipped under my radar. Has he earnt an Ireland cap yet? All of the Welsh names have. I like Craig Gilroy though, he is another Ulsterman with a bright future in Irish rubgy.

Do not forget Ross Jones and Dan Fish at FB from a Welsh point of view.

Okay LD, that's stretching things a bit. Those players are only on the fringes of their Region right now. Two possibles with a bright future though (both former U20 players).

Earning an Ireland cap and getting one unfortunately aren't one and the same Morg... so no not yet...

He left out Geordan I'm-not-bitter-even-though-I-call-myself-The-Outsider Murphy.

Yes Wales have; Halfpenny, Cuthbert and North, but whilst there is cover for 1/2p in Byrne, Liam Williams, Dan Evans and Hook. Wales are very light on wing cover. Robinson lacks pace and is struggling to get into the Cardiff side, Prydie is getting game time but hardly setting the world alight. If North or Cuthbert are unavailable, Wales will have to move one of the 15s or turn to someone like Tom James or even Fenby! Saying that if Stoddard maintains the form he showed in his comeback game last night, this problem may be solved!

Seagul, have you been watching rugby this season? You're the most incorrect person I've come across.

Morgannwg wrote:Seagul, have you been watching rugby this season? You're the most incorrect person I've come across.

I can only say what I see! I watched Dragons two derby games, Scarlets v Lienster and Ospreys plus Blues against Ulster. I stand by my comments.

Well firstly, you have Byrne and Hook down as full back cover. Both in France with one nearing retirement and the other erratic. Over form picks Liam Williams, Dan Evans and Tom Prydie; each playing in Wales. How can we be light on wing cover when looking at the list? Prydie hasn't set the world alight, but who has? He's been playing consistently well and he is a good goal-kicker. Not sure if you are referring to Cardiff RFC or Blues, but how is Robinson struggling to get into the team? If you think HR lacks pace then you have not ever seen him play for Wales on the Sevens circuit or against the Barbarians this summer. Why would you prefer to move Halfpenny, Evans or Williams to the wing and bring in Tom James or Andy Fenby? Only an idiot would make all these statements. I agree with you on Stoddart, he would have been a regular had he not broken his leg. But I wouldn't bring him back until the 6 Nations.

Hook erratic? Not at Perp he isn't he is consistently decent with the odd blinder according to friends. But it is at 10.

Evans and Prydie are good prospects but theyre nowhere near int jerseys yet, Williams is the class act at FB this year but with 1/2p's boot he'll never get ahead of him without a good kicking 10.

If I was looking beyond cuthbert and North on the wing my initial instincts say Brew or James, and I know both players are flawed (very) but they are both big, strong quick and are both breaking the line for fun this season. In the Wales squad their weaknesses can be negated by our gameplan and the fact they can't half finish a half chance.

I'm not saying either will get into the national team but thats who I'd look to.

Seagul makes a good point, for Wales the strength is there, but the depth is poor right now.

Constantly erratic for Wales and not able to nail down a position. And the reason you speak of is why I think Prydie is in contention. Brew was never given a chance and he's in France so may be lost to us now. James is a terrible rugby player, yes he breaks the line but then he throws the ball nowhere or drops it. And his defence is the worst. Gatland would have to have a mad moment to call him up.

And if you think Seagul made a point could you let me know what it was? Or do you just say that because you both rate Tom James? I think you both need to remember, Williams was a winger moved to full back, Prydie is a full back moved to wing .

Morgannwg wrote:Constantly erratic for Wales and not able to nail down a position. And the reason you speak of is why I think Prydie is in contention. Brew was never given a chance and he's in France so may be lost to us now. James is a terrible rugby player, yes he breaks the line but then he throws the ball nowhere or drops it. And his defence is the worst. Gatland would have to have a mad moment to call him up.

And if you think Seagul made a point could you let me know what it was? Or do you just say that because you both rate Tom James? I think you both need to remember, Williams was a winger moved to full back, Prydie is a full back moved to wing .

Hook is in great form as a flyhalf at the moment at USAP.

I love it when people blame Hooks form for wales on hook!!! It shows such a lack of game knowledge, and I'm not talking regurgetated tag lines heard from comentators, or buzz words that do the rounds, I'm talking actual knowledge and experience of playing and coaching.

Do you know how difficult it is to try to nail down 4 positions requiring totally different skill sets, you can't make Hook play 12/13 and FB for over 2 seasons then throw him back in at 10 for a world cup semi and expect him to shine, you can't ship any player between positions and expect them to nail one down. AND ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE NO LESS!!!!!!

Hook is and has been wales most talented rugby player for the last 7/8 years, his utility, willingness for the cause, and talent has been his downfall.

He's taken the 10 shirt at Perp and is getting rave reviews and according to some getting better and better, going to Oz as a FB was an absolute joke (Genia proved my point)

James as I said is not a greast rugby player, but neither is Cuthbert, or Phillips, Roberts, Warburton, but what they are are weapons. They may not be great ball in hand or regards to execution but they do what they do, and James has been one of the best linebreakers in Wales this season, and we know he can finish, which is exactly what the welsh wingers are used for!!! When did you last see Cuthbert play anyone in?

Seagul makes the point that the depth of back 3 quality in Wales is poor, if you think Robinson, Prydie, Evans, Harries, Dixon, Stoddart, James, Brew, Fenby, Fussel, Dirkson are anywhere near the likes of Dagg, Smith, Jane, Savea, Taylor, Gear, Guildford, Maitland then you have a screw loose!!

You are constantly infuriating by not acknowledging others opinions, and being condescending when you regularly show such a lack of knowledge for the game on any level

thebluesmancometh wrote:I love it when people blame Hooks form for wales on hook!!! It shows such a lack of game knowledge, and I'm not talking regurgetated tag lines heard from comentators, or buzz words that do the rounds, I'm talking actual knowledge and experience of playing and coaching.

Do you know how difficult it is to try to nail down 4 positions requiring totally different skill sets, you can't make Hook play 12/13 and FB for over 2 seasons then throw him back in at 10 for a world cup semi and expect him to shine, you can't ship any player between positions and expect them to nail one down. AND ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE NO LESS!!!!!!

Hook is and has been wales most talented rugby player for the last 7/8 years, his utility, willingness for the cause, and talent has been his downfall.

He's taken the 10 shirt at Perp and is getting rave reviews and according to some getting better and better, going to Oz as a FB was an absolute joke (Genia proved my point)

James as I said is not a greast rugby player, but neither is Cuthbert, or Phillips, Roberts, Warburton, but what they are are weapons. They may not be great ball in hand or regards to execution but they do what they do, and James has been one of the best linebreakers in Wales this season, and we know he can finish, which is exactly what the welsh wingers are used for!!! When did you last see Cuthbert play anyone in?

Seagul makes the point that the depth of back 3 quality in Wales is poor, if you think Robinson, Prydie, Evans, Harries, Dixon, Stoddart, James, Brew, Fenby, Fussel, Dirkson are anywhere near the likes of Dagg, Smith, Jane, Savea, Taylor, Gear, Guildford, Maitland then you have a screw loose!!

You are constantly infuriating by not acknowledging others opinions, and being condescending when you regularly show such a lack of knowledge for the game on any level

Don't have another childish strop pal cos someone disagreed with you. Hook has not been good enough in the last few tests for Wales.

Who's having a strop, I'm just highlighting your lack of any real knowledge...

Which tests are we talking about? The Oz tour, 6N and WC?

Go back and look at what positions he played, look at how long he has played each position, look at the gaps between the positions he's had a crack at, look at the positions he played at club before and after the tests, look at the circumstances of his inclusion, don't just keep trouting the same old guff 'he's not good enough end of' garbage mate.

Engage me in the debate, go on I dare you?

Not sure why you include Maitland in there. I have never heard much suggestion of him being an AB.

Maitland had a huge season last year, and was solid this year. There was tons of talk about him stepping up, but my point still stands, he is depth for NZ and far better than anything wales has behind their first choice IMO

Well I agree with the last part of your statement.
I feel that a few too many people get excited about a player after a good season in a low level comp. Many players can be good a one level but just aren't ready or good enough for the next.
I was watching Wellington play and its really clear all the players doing a good job had Hurricanes experience but actually not all of them are good Hurricanes and of course most of them will never get to the international level.

On the other hand I've been happy to be proven wrong on Savea who I thought wasn't ready for the ABs yet.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Who's having a strop, I'm just highlighting your lack of any real knowledge...

Which tests are we talking about? The Oz tour, 6N and WC?

Go back and look at what positions he played, look at how long he has played each position, look at the gaps between the positions he's had a crack at, look at the positions he played at club before and after the tests, look at the circumstances of his inclusion, don't just keep trouting the same old guff 'he's not good enough end of' garbage mate.

Engage me in the debate, go on I dare you?

I ignore most of your postings tbh, because they are just usually rants and you become critical of people disagreeing. Biltong had to have words with you after your last outburst at me, thankfully your posts were removed before most posters could see what a fool you made of yourself.

You're welcome to your opinion pal, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. It's just odd to see someone push for tom James in the squad ahead of what we got. Must have been watching a different player to the rest of us. He could get picked I suppose, it's happened before but it would be a big step backwards. There you are.

I think Hook's best position is in the centre. His worst is full back. I haven't seen any of him in France. I asked 'whocares' for a verdict and he gave a mixed review. If you look at the world cup where he took the reigns, he was god awful in every aspect. I don't think he played more than 30 minutes in the 6 Nations, and the summer series. He may be in the autumn squad is utility cover, though I hope it would only be as a reserve fly-half.

nganboy wrote:Not sure why you include Maitland in there. I have never heard much suggestion of him being an AB.

My opinion on him mate. He is a very good player, probably on the same level as Guildford. Just not much use for him when you have Dagg and Jane playing. I think he'll get his caps.

maitland will never be an AB unless something serious happens to the several in front of him. Watching ITM there are several young wingers/ FB's coming through with a greater range than Maitland who is primarily a finisher. He would have been selected by now if so.

If you look at the world cup where he took the reigns, he was god awful in every aspect

Says all I need to know, hasn't played 10 for 2 seasons and asked to play in a WC final.

And as for all the personall stuff leave it out and stop whinging. You were never bullied, I was never told off yawn... There is no debate here unless you can provide something other than hot air.

thebluesmancometh wrote:If you look at the world cup where he took the reigns, he was god awful in every aspect

Says all I need to know, hasn't played 10 for 2 seasons and asked to play in a WC final.

And as for all the personall stuff leave it out and stop whinging. You were never bullied, I was never told off yawn... There is no debate here unless you can provide something other than hot air.

Which WC final did Wales play in?

HAHAHAHA

Busted I thought I typed semi.

At least you're honest!

We all make mistakes, and if 50 people turn up to wales NZ that other thread of mine may turn out to be a big one

thebluesmancometh wrote:If you look at the world cup where he took the reigns, he was god awful in every aspect

Says all I need to know, hasn't played 10 for 2 seasons and asked to play in a WC final.

And as for all the personall stuff leave it out and stop whinging. You were never bullied, I was never told off yawn... There is no debate here unless you can provide something other than hot air.

The only one whinging is you. Whinge, whinge on every single thread and now this one is ruined by your moaning and ranting. I provided you with the evidence to back up my statement, conclusive facts, so don't try and play it down because you disagree. No I wasn't bullied, you'd have to actually get under my skin for that but you don't. You were PM'd for being a top class numpty across multiple threads. Now enough with the whinging please before I go cry to bilton.

Oh dear

I just bothered to read this:

"James as I said is not a greast rugby player, but neither is Cuthbert, or Phillips, Roberts, Warburton, but what they are are weapons. They may not be great ball in hand or regards to execution but they do what they do, and James has been one of the best linebreakers in Wales this season, and we know he can finish, which is exactly what the welsh wingers are used for!!! When did you last see Cuthbert play anyone in?

Seagul makes the point that the depth of back 3 quality in Wales is poor, if you think Robinson, Prydie, Evans, Harries, Dixon, Stoddart, James, Brew, Fenby, Fussel, Dirkson are anywhere near the likes of Dagg, Smith, Jane, Savea, Taylor, Gear, Guildford, Maitland then you have a screw loose!!

You are constantly infuriating by not acknowledging others opinions, and being condescending when you regularly show such a lack of knowledge for the game on any level"

Cuthbert, Roberts, Phillips and Warbs not great rugby players and mentioned in the same breath as Tom James? Jeez what were you smoking last night! Both AC and TJ came to the game quite late, one has transitioned into the professional arena incredibly well. I don't think James is ever going to improve but if he did, he would be a great international player. Cuthbert is a far better player.

I didn't mention any of those names. I mentioned the form players (see the list). The ones showing good form, you know? That isn't Tom James btw as you have to do more than a few linebreaks to be considered as playing well on a regular basis. Fenby is actually playing consistently well so far this season now that he is experienced and less of a headless chicken. I never compared our back 3 to New Zealands either. Can you point out where I have done? And seeing as North, Cuthbert, Halfpenny have nothing on Gear, Jane, Dagg; is there any point Wales turning up to play them?

Now I'm in a good condition to read I see you made some good points early on without coming across like you were ranting and raving. Until you wrote all that. Shows a severe lacking of knowledge of the game on every level in my opinion.

Area of strength for NZ, Eng, Ire, and now Wales?

That is a direct comparison above... it really is like trying to play chess with a sheep!!!

Well I think you've misinterpreted it. I'm not saying we have better depth in the back 3 than NZ. Especially with the players you went on to list you numpty. "it really is like trying to play chess with a sheep!!!" Oh my, you're on form tonight, aren't you steviegen? I see you are still using lots of exclamation marks when it isn't necessary. You loved using them back on 606 too .