How good is Samson Lee?
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jeff stones dad
Luckless Pedestrian
Geordie
Smirnoffpriest
offload
Casartelli
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bedfordwelsh
Shifty
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BigTrevsbigmac
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maestegmafia
Seagultaf
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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How good is Samson Lee?
First topic message reminder :
Samson Lee was hailed as a sensation playing for the Scarlets against the Dragons last night. Despite the pre match prediction by the Dragons "that they would target the Scarlets scrum". The opposite actually occurred and in contrast to previous matches this season, it was the Scarlets scrum which dominated.
The commentators on BBC 2 credited this transformation on one man (or boy) 19 year old Samson Lee who started at tight head for the Scarlets. I think most knowledgeable pundits acknowledge the support he had from Mathew Rees and the south seas and South African beef behind him in the second row, but there can be no doubt that this match marked a significant improvement in the Scarlets scrum.
Just how good is Lee? He certainly looks the part, with a chunky physique and already carrying the wounds of battle with heavily bandaged knees and a cauliflower ear! Is he good enough for a Wales call up this Autumn, or should he continue his education with the Scarlets?
Samson Lee was hailed as a sensation playing for the Scarlets against the Dragons last night. Despite the pre match prediction by the Dragons "that they would target the Scarlets scrum". The opposite actually occurred and in contrast to previous matches this season, it was the Scarlets scrum which dominated.
The commentators on BBC 2 credited this transformation on one man (or boy) 19 year old Samson Lee who started at tight head for the Scarlets. I think most knowledgeable pundits acknowledge the support he had from Mathew Rees and the south seas and South African beef behind him in the second row, but there can be no doubt that this match marked a significant improvement in the Scarlets scrum.
Just how good is Lee? He certainly looks the part, with a chunky physique and already carrying the wounds of battle with heavily bandaged knees and a cauliflower ear! Is he good enough for a Wales call up this Autumn, or should he continue his education with the Scarlets?
Seagultaf- Posts : 1404
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Ospreylia
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Just been called up to the welsh squad.. Not bad for a nineteen year old.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/23820.php#.UIj
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/23820.php#.UIj
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-06
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Fortune favours the brave! And Samson is certainly brave!
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
Join date : 2012-09-13
Location : Towy Estuary
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Without wishing to sound like an old cynic, I think this may be more about holding off an Irish claim on his services in case he turns out to be any good in the future.
The one time he went up against anyone half decent (seasoned veteran Duncan Jones) he was literally bent double.
Still, that isn't the boy's fault and if he does get a shot then I hope they look after him properly. And the management don't 'do a Prydie'.
The one time he went up against anyone half decent (seasoned veteran Duncan Jones) he was literally bent double.
Still, that isn't the boy's fault and if he does get a shot then I hope they look after him properly. And the management don't 'do a Prydie'.
Casartelli- Posts : 1935
Join date : 2011-10-09
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
It also says as much about the dearth of decent alternatives in Wales as it does about Samson Lee's abilities.
Luckless Pedestrian- Posts : 24902
Join date : 2011-02-02
Age : 45
Location : Newport
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
It's hard to belive that with all the players playing at Premiership, Championship and Division 1 and below that there is no talent out there.
It maybe a suggestion that the WRU set up forward masterclasses inviting players from the lower levels so that they can be improved and also assessed. There are always some that slip the net.
It maybe a suggestion that the WRU set up forward masterclasses inviting players from the lower levels so that they can be improved and also assessed. There are always some that slip the net.
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
Join date : 2012-09-13
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
The WRU should be doing that kind of thing. They must know how important tightheads are. (Surely?)
Luckless Pedestrian- Posts : 24902
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Are they
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
at least we have lads like Lee, Mitchell, Joe Rees, Jarvis England, Ireland and Scotland are in a much worse state, behind their first choice they have little.Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It also says as much about the dearth of decent alternatives in Wales as it does about Samson Lee's abilities.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
joe Rees, Samson lee are both under 23 and starting to get some valuable game time.jeff stones dad wrote:Are they
The WRU are doing a great job of bolstering depth where we lack it. When Nugget wanted to retire in 2007 Gats had to beg him to stay, by the next RWC he couldn't get in for the likes of Warburton 23, Tupuric 22 ahead of him. Similar with fullback, Lock.
Number eight is a weak part of the squad we need to bolster. Good academy players are coming through though.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
There is no doubt that the Academies are doing a great job. However there are quality players with a lot of potential playing outside the Regions & Premiership. An example is Aaron Shingler.
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
jeff stones dad wrote:There is no doubt that the Academies are doing a great job. However there are quality players with a lot of potential playing outside the Regions & Premiership. An example is Aaron Shingler.
He plays for the Scarlets?
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Yes he does, Aaron was picked up playing for the Scarlets Under25's clubs squad which was a team made up from players playing for clubs outside the premiership. I was using him as an example.
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
Join date : 2012-09-13
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
By the way the Under 25's competition and Wales Amateurs National Team was dropped by the WRU due to- wait for it - cost saving reasons!!!!
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
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Location : Towy Estuary
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
maestegmafia wrote:at least we have lads like Lee, Mitchell, Joe Rees, Jarvis England, Ireland and Scotland are in a much worse state, behind their first choice they have little.Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It also says as much about the dearth of decent alternatives in Wales as it does about Samson Lee's abilities.
England -
Wilson, PDJ, Harden, Henry Thomas, Karl Sinckler, Nathan Catt
Thomas,Sinckler & Catt are for the future & are probably on a par in terms of development with Lee.
Wilson is a rock in the scrum not much round the park but then what prop compares with Cole (Melon a few years ago maybe)
I do think if England lose Cole it would be similar to Wales losing Jones. A massive loss but Wilson would do a good job at scrum time. Would Wales have an adequate a replacement?
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
Join date : 2011-05-16
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
jeff stones dad wrote:By the way the Under 25's competition and Wales Amateurs National Team was dropped by the WRU due to- wait for it - cost saving reasons!!!!
got any links?
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
My son played for the Scarlets Under 25's for 2 or 3 seasons leading up to its termination.
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
jeff stones dad wrote:My son played for the Scarlets Under 25's for 2 or 3 seasons leading up to its termination.
I reckon that's a link
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
Join date : 2011-05-16
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
A link!
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/14322.php
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/14322.php
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
Join date : 2012-09-13
Location : Towy Estuary
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
A lik to the Scarlets Under 25's - Aaron Shingler included!
http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/1263.php
http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/1263.php
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
Join date : 2012-09-13
Location : Towy Estuary
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
That looks similar to the Clubs XVs that played russia and so on last season. Its great to see the WRU trying to find talent from so many different sources. With such a small player base Wales need to try to make sure talent doesn't slip through the net.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Wasn't that the Premiership XV who played Georgia?
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/21720.php
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/21720.php
jeff stones dad- Posts : 72
Join date : 2012-09-13
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
maestegmafia wrote:at least we have lads like Lee, Mitchell, Joe Rees, Jarvis England, Ireland and Scotland are in a much worse state, behind their first choice they have little.Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It also says as much about the dearth of decent alternatives in Wales as it does about Samson Lee's abilities.
Apart from disagreeing with your comparison with the other countries. We shall now see the strength in depth as unfortunately Adam is ruled out of the AIs.
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
I thought he was only ruled out of the Argie game
Smirnoffpriest- Posts : 5321
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Smirnoffpriest wrote:I thought he was only ruled out of the Argie game
No announced this evening he is out for the whole series.
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
Join date : 2011-05-16
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Damn! thats a kick in the teeth! and will mean that some of our younger props (or more likely Paul James switching sides) will really have to step up.
PS - I reckon England are bringing through much more props than we are, but it's to be expected - I just hope none are up to Coles standard...
PS - I reckon England are bringing through much more props than we are, but it's to be expected - I just hope none are up to Coles standard...
Smirnoffpriest- Posts : 5321
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Smirnoffpriest wrote:Damn! thats a kick in the teeth! and will mean that some of our younger props (or more likely Paul James switching sides) will really have to step up.
PS - I reckon England are bringing through much more props than we are, but it's to be expected - I just hope none are up to Coles standard...
At least the game James is unavailable for is the Australia game. That be a decent trial run for a prop
The more established English tightheads aren't up to Cole's level and probably never will be (always difficult to judge how a prop will progress, wasn't Adam about 27 when he started being lauded as one of the best?). There are a few young guys coming through. Fortunately most 18-22 year old props go to the championship where the level is still pretty high in the scrum so they get a good education. The better ones are brought in to their Jeff club and the really good ones fore their way onto the first team.
[Anyone remember O'Shea saying they were going to go easy with Marler when he was 20, and then he ended up first choice because he was so much better than Ceri?]
HammerofThunor- Posts : 10471
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Hull, England - Originally Potteries
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Very good performance by Lee tonight.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
South Wales Argus -
WALES’ coaches admit finding a back up for the injured Adam Jones at tighthead prop is proving to be a serious problem.
They could be without the triple Grand Slam winner for their autumn international series opener against Argentina in Cardiff on November 10.
Jones suffered a recurrence of a knee injury when the Ospreys went down 39-22 to Leicester at Welford Road in the Heineken Cup on the weekend.
But Wales may have found the man to fill the gap in a fellow Ospreys prop many fans may not have heard of until this week.
Exeter-born Aaron Jarvis was the only uncapped player to be named in Wales’ 35-man squad for the autumn internationals.
Although he qualifies for Wales through a grandmother from Merthyr, the 26-year-old was very much made in England.
He is the product of the Bath Academy and was capped by England at Under-16 and U-19 level before moving to the Liberty Stadium last year.
Jarvis did well on Sunday when he came on for the 83-times capped Jones in the 48th minute against the Tigers.
He deputised for the 31-year-old 2009 Lions star at the beginning of the season, when Jones was again injured, and Jarvis is someone impressing Wales forwards coach Robin Mc-Bryde.
“Aaron’s playing tight-head, he’s playing regularly and he’s playing well,” he said.
“It isn’t a position where we have great strength in depth behind Adam, but Aaron is someone who has really taken his opportunity since the start of the season.”
McBryde added: “He’s been hugely competitive at the Ospreys and his coaches there are very happy with the way his game is improving.
“Hopefully, a spell in this environment and a trip to Poland (Wales leave for a training camp in Spala on the weekend) will see him develop further.
“He did very well against (Marcos) Ayerza in Leicester. The Ospreys scrum held up well after he came on.
“He can get around the park and is quite mobile.
“It’s important we create depth and it’s important we create competition, because we need someone to put pressure on Adam Jones.”
Jarvis may get the chance for a return match with Pumas prop Ayerza sooner than he thought.
WALES’ coaches admit finding a back up for the injured Adam Jones at tighthead prop is proving to be a serious problem.
They could be without the triple Grand Slam winner for their autumn international series opener against Argentina in Cardiff on November 10.
Jones suffered a recurrence of a knee injury when the Ospreys went down 39-22 to Leicester at Welford Road in the Heineken Cup on the weekend.
But Wales may have found the man to fill the gap in a fellow Ospreys prop many fans may not have heard of until this week.
Exeter-born Aaron Jarvis was the only uncapped player to be named in Wales’ 35-man squad for the autumn internationals.
Although he qualifies for Wales through a grandmother from Merthyr, the 26-year-old was very much made in England.
He is the product of the Bath Academy and was capped by England at Under-16 and U-19 level before moving to the Liberty Stadium last year.
Jarvis did well on Sunday when he came on for the 83-times capped Jones in the 48th minute against the Tigers.
He deputised for the 31-year-old 2009 Lions star at the beginning of the season, when Jones was again injured, and Jarvis is someone impressing Wales forwards coach Robin Mc-Bryde.
“Aaron’s playing tight-head, he’s playing regularly and he’s playing well,” he said.
“It isn’t a position where we have great strength in depth behind Adam, but Aaron is someone who has really taken his opportunity since the start of the season.”
McBryde added: “He’s been hugely competitive at the Ospreys and his coaches there are very happy with the way his game is improving.
“Hopefully, a spell in this environment and a trip to Poland (Wales leave for a training camp in Spala on the weekend) will see him develop further.
“He did very well against (Marcos) Ayerza in Leicester. The Ospreys scrum held up well after he came on.
“He can get around the park and is quite mobile.
“It’s important we create depth and it’s important we create competition, because we need someone to put pressure on Adam Jones.”
Jarvis may get the chance for a return match with Pumas prop Ayerza sooner than he thought.
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Thanks for the link Trev.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: How good is Samson Lee?
HammerofThunor wrote:Smirnoffpriest wrote:Damn! thats a kick in the teeth! and will mean that some of our younger props (or more likely Paul James switching sides) will really have to step up.
PS - I reckon England are bringing through much more props than we are, but it's to be expected - I just hope none are up to Coles standard...
At least the game James is unavailable for is the Australia game. That be a decent trial run for a prop
The more established English tightheads aren't up to Cole's level and probably never will be (always difficult to judge how a prop will progress, wasn't Adam about 27 when he started being lauded as one of the best?). There are a few young guys coming through. Fortunately most 18-22 year old props go to the championship where the level is still pretty high in the scrum so they get a good education. The better ones are brought in to their Jeff club and the really good ones fore their way onto the first team.
[Anyone remember O'Shea saying they were going to go easy with Marler when he was 20, and then he ended up first choice because he was so much better than Ceri?]
Generally I think you're right, but, and I can't believe i'm saying this, I actually don't think Wilson is too far off him. Watching him this season his workrate and fitness seem hugely improved, to the point i'm amazed no-one seems to have mentioned it. His carrying also seems to have gone back to where it was a few years ago. In that area, i think he's at least on a par with Cole. Scrummaging he's not in Cole's class, and he's nowhere near as good at the groundwork, but carrying and tackling I think he's at least as good.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: How good is Samson Lee?
Hood83 wrote:HammerofThunor wrote:Smirnoffpriest wrote:Damn! thats a kick in the teeth! and will mean that some of our younger props (or more likely Paul James switching sides) will really have to step up.
PS - I reckon England are bringing through much more props than we are, but it's to be expected - I just hope none are up to Coles standard...
At least the game James is unavailable for is the Australia game. That be a decent trial run for a prop
The more established English tightheads aren't up to Cole's level and probably never will be (always difficult to judge how a prop will progress, wasn't Adam about 27 when he started being lauded as one of the best?). There are a few young guys coming through. Fortunately most 18-22 year old props go to the championship where the level is still pretty high in the scrum so they get a good education. The better ones are brought in to their Jeff club and the really good ones fore their way onto the first team.
[Anyone remember O'Shea saying they were going to go easy with Marler when he was 20, and then he ended up first choice because he was so much better than Ceri?]
Generally I think you're right, but, and I can't believe i'm saying this, I actually don't think Wilson is too far off him. Watching him this season his workrate and fitness seem hugely improved, to the point i'm amazed no-one seems to have mentioned it. His carrying also seems to have gone back to where it was a few years ago. In that area, i think he's at least on a par with Cole. Scrummaging he's not in Cole's class, and he's nowhere near as good at the groundwork, but carrying and tackling I think he's at least as good.
Interesting that Hood, Dean Ryan & Greenwood have just been talking about Wilson trimming up a bit carrying well, I know he played well against Wasps.
Will keep an eye on him this afternoon against Exeter.
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
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