Shanghai Thread

[The Special Juan]

First topic message reminder :

Draw here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Shanghai_Rolex_Masters_%E2%80%93_Singles

Is it just me or is the court painfully slow?

[Josiah Maiestas]

It looks like Wawrinka agreed if he can't win it in two, might aswell let him win. Has Federer had an easier last set as this in this year? Stan needs a psychology coach.

[CaledonianCraig]

And Fed devours a bagel to win 4-6 7-6 6-0. He hung in there until Stan fell apart. A pity for Stan as he played really well but Federer's strengths came out when his back was to the wall and once he sealed the second set you could sense it was game over.

[lags72]

Well CC, you called it perfectly at 2.44pm, even before the 2nd set breaker was finished. All credit to you

(oh and some credit to Federer too, I guess, for pulling it out of the fire....)

[CaledonianCraig]

Well CC, you called it perfectly at 2.44pm, even before the 2nd set breaker was finished. All credit to you

(oh and some credit to Federer too, I guess, for pulling it out of the fire....)

Cheers lags but it wasn't really rocket science. Wawrinka has a woeful record against Roger and is susceptible to collapses whereas once Fed gets his teeth into a match there is little stopping him. Those two aspects brought me to the logical conclusion.

[laverfan]

It looks like Wawrinka agreed if he can't win it in two, might aswell let him win. Has Federer had an easier last set as this in this year? Stan needs a psychology coach.

Haas may be able to help Stan.

[lags72]

CC - Well the record isn't great as you say, BUT with a set in the bag and the lottery of a breaker, this surely was as good a chance as any for Stan to chalk up only his second win against his doubles mate. But it was not to be ......

I suspect only Andy or Djoko can stop Fed now. Getting past both of them looks a tall order indeed.

[time please]

Well done Tommy Haas - from outside the 200s earlier this year to No 21 and a victory over Tipsarevic for the loss of just 3 games!!

Fab to see him play so well

[lags72]

Maybe, just maybe, he can put some pressure on Djoko in the QF ....??

34 year-old veteran takes out 25 year-old Number 2 would make a few waves ....

[laverfan]

Stepanek did take out Isner.

Glad to see the oldies working hard.

Federer did look slower against Lu (yesterday) and Wawrinka today.

[The Special Juan]

"Stanislas Wawrinka ‏@stanwawrinka

......................... "

Poor Stan, I really thought it was his day.

Stan, Stan, The Nearly Man?

[lags72]

I reckon Federer would like nothing more than to put his tired feet up from now till January.

But when you have two small children to support, you simply have to go out to work - whether you like it or not .......

[time please]

Maybe, just maybe, he can put some pressure on Djoko in the QF ....??

34 year-old veteran takes out 25 year-old Number 2 would make a few waves ....

A tsunami!

[bogbrush]

I reckon Federer would like nothing more than to put his tired feet up from now till January.

But when you have two small children to support, you simply have to go out to work - whether you like it or not .......

I bet those girls will be expensive!

[lags72]

Yep, don't think they'll be shopping at Primark bb .....

"Stanislas Wawrinka ‏@stanwawrinka

......................... "

Poor Stan, I really thought it was his day.

Stan, Stan, The Nearly Man?

Well, at least Stan does have one win to his name - unlike many others.

As the months & years continue to catch up with Federer, all sorts of low-ranking players will be itching to take what opportunities remain (before he finally bows out) to snatch the victory that will enable them to tell their grandchildren .....
"that Roger Federer chap you've been reading about ..... he might have been good, but I beat him you know ..."

[hawkeye]

As the months & years continue to catch up with Federer, all sorts of low-ranking players will be itching to take what opportunities remain (before he finally bows out) to snatch the victory that will enable them to tell their grandchildren .....
"that Roger Federer chap you've been reading about ..... he might have been good, but I beat him you know ..."

Ha ha! So true. I bet for that reason many players will be hoping that he continues playing until he's pushing 40...

[dummy_half]

As the months & years continue to catch up with Federer, all sorts of low-ranking players will be itching to take what opportunities remain (before he finally bows out) to snatch the victory that will enable them to tell their grandchildren .....
"that Roger Federer chap you've been reading about ..... he might have been good, but I beat him you know ..."

Ha ha! So true. I bet for that reason many players will be hoping that he continues playing until he's pushing 40...

Yes grandad David (Ferrer), but what happened the first 13 times you played?
(Low ranked, like #5 in the world)

[bogbrush]

I think it was Ljubi who said one thing he looked forward to was telling his grandchildren that he really did beat Roger Federer.

[Danny_1982]

How many players have a positive H2H against Roger? I know Rafa does, and Murray is 1 ahead... But are there any others?

Any players that have retired with a good record against him? Now that WOULD be something to tell the grand kids!

[lags72]

dummy_half : yep, perhaps I should have said instead : " many low-ranking players, as well as some NOT so low ..... "

[carrieg4]

How many players have a positive H2H against Roger? I know Rafa does, and Murray is 1 ahead... But are there any others?

Any players that have retired with a good record against him? Now that WOULD be something to tell the grand kids!

There are a few that retired relatively early in his career that have. I think Henman has a positive H2H but I wouldn't swear to it and I can't get the ATP site to work atm.

[User 774433]

How many players have a positive H2H against Roger? I know Rafa does, and Murray is 1 ahead... But are there any others?

Any players that have retired with a good record against him? Now that WOULD be something to tell the grand kids!

There are a few that retired relatively early in his career that have. I think Henman has a positive H2H but I wouldn't swear to it and I can't get the ATP site to work atm.

It's 6-1 to Rog.

[carrieg4]

How many players have a positive H2H against Roger? I know Rafa does, and Murray is 1 ahead... But are there any others?

Any players that have retired with a good record against him? Now that WOULD be something to tell the grand kids!

There are a few that retired relatively early in his career that have. I think Henman has a positive H2H but I wouldn't swear to it and I can't get the ATP site to work atm.

It's 6-1 to Rog.

Oops - knew I should have waited and checked that one

[lags72]

Are you sure on that IMBL ? I only ask because I always thought Henman had a number of wins against him - or was that when Federer was still a junior, before joining the main tour ....??

Certainly Andrew Castle (hardly the font of all knowledge, I admit ...!) is forever waffling on about various indoor victories by Tim over Fed whenever they are together in the commentary box, although Tim of course is classy enough to brush it aside by saying how young Fed was ....

[Danny_1982]

Federer v Henman

Head to Head: 7-6

On Carpet: 0-3

On Hard: 6-2

On Grass: 1-1

In Finals: 2-1

Tiger Tim was a bogeyman early in Roger’s career, winning 6 of the first 7 meetings.

I guess what happened after that is Federer developed into.... Well, Federer!

[carrieg4]

Federer v Henman

Head to Head: 7-6

On Carpet: 0-3

On Hard: 6-2

On Grass: 1-1

In Finals: 2-1

Tiger Tim was a bogeyman early in Roger’s career, winning 6 of the first 7 meetings.

I guess what happened after that is Federer developed into.... Well, Federer!

If only Tim had retired a bit earlier

[The Special Juan]

So Henman made Federer?

Who was the guy that had the positive H2H v Federer and Nadal?

[User 774433]

For some reason this says 6:1:
http://tennis.wettpoint.com/en/h2h/14620-13915.html

It's wrong though, just checked it up.

[lags72]

Tim's Wimbledon victory over him in 2001 was especially noteworthy because Federer was riding high after taking out the king of grass Pete Sampras before being dumped out himself by Tim at the next hurdle ......

[lags72]

Well we know now not to rely on THAT site IMBL ..... !!

[Danny_1982]

Tim's Wimbledon victory over him in 2001 was especially noteworthy because Federer was riding high after taking out the king of grass Pete Sampras before being dumped out himself by Tim at the next hurdle ......

Yes, that was THE year. The one he probably still thinks about now.

He was 2 points from the Wimbledon final at one stage.

[lydian]

Henman is an interesting one. It took until he was nearly 30 and the conditions had slowed for Federer to start beating him.
To be slightly controversial Federer always struggled more against faster court players...Henman, Rafter, Kafelnikov. I still firmly believe that his success rate shot up massively once conditions slowed...he probably never was one of the "transitional guys" from 98-03 I referred to on the other thread, he was a breed apart - not that he isnt adept on faster surfaces though, but he was brought up on clay...

[Danny_1982]

Yeah Lydian, I'd agree with that. Tim used to play deep approach shots then use his excellent reflexes and touch at the net to take the game away from his opponents. Then once things slowed down, players had more time on his approaches and the likes of Federer would pass him with ease.

Henman had a really attacking game, but once he lost the pace of the court the likes of Federer - a far superior shot maker - could pick him off easily.

People call Tim an under achiever, or a nearly man which I think is really harsh. 6 slam semis and about 7 years in the top 10, reaching as high as 4 at one stage, was him maximising what he had in my book.

[bogbrush]

I thought Tim could have hoped for a bit more from his home Slam. They hardly prepared a home town surface did they?

[User 774433]

Well we know now not to rely on THAT site IMBL ..... !!

lol not anymore.

[Danny_1982]

True BB. They slowed it down just as he reached his peak.

Strange decision really, but a typically British one at that. We'd do anything to avoid being accused of bias, including screwing the chances of one of our own.

[lydian]

Agree with both posts. Just when Tim was getting into his prime around 27-30 they pulled his legs out from under him by dramatically slowing Wimb and USO from 2001 onwards.

Didnt he famously say in 2002 that he was sat on Centre Court at a change of ends and couldnt believe he was playing at Wimbledon because it felt like an alien surface to him. The same year that Sampras, the Grass Machine, found he wasnt playing on grass at all and lost to journeyman Bastl in the 2nd round.

They had changed the courts in 2001 but the rain that year kept it relatively fast (if not quite as fast as before). But 2002 was a dry hot summer - and it scuppered the fast court players chances completely. Lets not forget in the late 90s Tim pushed Sampras really hard in the semis...often very tight matches. He should have been the guy to break Perry's Spell. For me he's still probably in top 5 volleyers of the modern game.

[hawkeye]

Strange decision really, but a typically British one at that. We'd do anything to avoid being accused of bias, including screwing the chances of one of our own.

Ha ha! Try telling that to Ivo Karlovic.

Personally I think it was a great decision to slow the surface as I found much of the tennis in the 90's unwatchable...

[bogbrush]

Strange decision really, but a typically British one at that. We'd do anything to avoid being accused of bias, including screwing the chances of one of our own.

Ha ha! Try telling that to Ivo Karlovic.

Personally I think it was a great decision to slow the surface as I found much of the tennis in the 90's unwatchable...

Not Henman though, surely one of the best players to watch in the last 20 years.

[carrieg4]

Strange decision really, but a typically British one at that. We'd do anything to avoid being accused of bias, including screwing the chances of one of our own.

Ha ha! Try telling that to Ivo Karlovic.

Personally I think it was a great decision to slow the surface as I found much of the tennis in the 90's unwatchable...

Not Henman though, surely one of the best players to watch in the last 20 years.

Here's one for you BB. Some nice points here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwwLOHVWR0c

[lydian]

He was some player - that BH high volley smash on 3rd point is pure class.
It's almost alien now to watch that kind of rapid, incisive power tennis now - and yet the game is said to have progressed, it doesn't feel like it.
It also showed Hewitt was some player too - both scuppered by surface slowing.

And lest we forget this guy wasn't bad either...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtFdrjZ9H3k

[bogbrush]

Harsh highlights on Tim there!

Those defeats for Henman were very tough; to push peak Sampras on 90's Wimbledon grass showed he really could play.

[lydian]

Yeah they were abit...lol...but you realise what a completely ruthless player Sampras was on fast courts, still the ultimate predatory player IMO. And the game has evolved since then?

Yep, I'm sure without Sampras he'd have won a couple of Wimbledon's. Plus unlucky to meet him in semis too, otherwise he'd have at least got to finals too.

[Danny_1982]

Strange decision really, but a typically British one at that. We'd do anything to avoid being accused of bias, including screwing the chances of one of our own.

Ha ha! Try telling that to Ivo Karlovic.

Personally I think it was a great decision to slow the surface as I found much of the tennis in the 90's unwatchable...

Ill informed comment. The line judges and umpires at Wimbledon are the same ones used around all the big tournaments. You think it was British people with 'come on Andy' t-shirts under their official clothing?

I thought you were a bigger tennis fan than that HE, and I'm surprised you don't know that.

[Danny_1982]

Yeah they were abit...lol...but you realise what a completely ruthless player Sampras was on fast courts, still the ultimate predatory player IMO. And the game has evolved since then?

Yep, I'm sure without Sampras he'd have won a couple of Wimbledon's. Plus unlucky to meet him in semis too, otherwise he'd have at least got to finals too.

I don't know why this has come to my mind, but I remember Agassi being asked what the difference was between playing Samprass and Federer. He said:

"Pete played within himself. He only tried when he had to. You could play great and lose 6/3, 7/5 and play awful and lose 6/3 7/5. With Federer if you play great you can lose 6/3, 7/5 but if you play bad you'll lose 6/0, 6/0. He tries to kill you every point."

I always thought that was a fascinating quote from Andre.

[hawkeye]

Strange decision really, but a typically British one at that. We'd do anything to avoid being accused of bias, including screwing the chances of one of our own.

Ha ha! Try telling that to Ivo Karlovic.

Personally I think it was a great decision to slow the surface as I found much of the tennis in the 90's unwatchable...

Ill informed comment. The line judges and umpires at Wimbledon are the same ones used around all the big tournaments. You think it was British people with 'come on Andy' t-shirts under their official clothing?

I thought you were a bigger tennis fan than that HE, and I'm surprised you don't know that.

It's not about me! I didn't watch the match. It's Karlovic that you should try telling.

[The Special Juan]

I've never seen Tsonga play Berdych before. One of them is injured apparently; I think it's Tsonga as he's getting battered about the court by the Berych forehand. Berdych is "on" today I think he'll win in straight sets.

[carrieg4]

Tsonga is struggling with his back but still fighting. Definitely not over yet..........

[carrieg4]

Second set tie break

[carrieg4]

Berdych wins

[The Special Juan]

Well there you go. Berdy for Paris/WTF?

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