Call Me Crazy: But If His Head Was Screwed On

Before i start I should address a previous notion of mine.

The fact that i severely dislike Chavez Jr and have my doubts as to whether he is legit.

With that issue acknowledged consider this.

The Mexican, IF focused, and IF disciplined, and IF he listened to the people around him that truly know and understand boxing. May well be Andre Ward's biggest threat.

He loves to fight on the inside. He works best on the inside. He has a chin. He has real power these days (god knows where it came from but he does). The man does throw nice hooks, especially that left of his. He is more than happy to put his head on a man's chest and unload. He looks quickest when working on the inside, he looks his most comfortable and shows that he has the ability to really push a fighter back.

Oh yeah, and Ward love working on the inside. Like the Mexican, he wants to brawl.

I believe that if Chavez Jr moved up he would have just as much relative power as he does in the Middles. He is simply a big guy. And i see know reason why he wouldn't be a huge SM. Couple this with the notion that he actually trains properly, and that pea brain of his takes on the epic advice of an ATG and an ATG trainer, then he would really have a chance, IMO.

For me he is one of the few fighters out there who would be big and strong enough not to get worked onto the ropes. Think about it, this isn't a Ward being too smart not to get him on the ropes issue. This is a, Ward simply wouldn't be able to muscle him that way like he does so many others.

Fight at range and Ward kills him. Take a brain cell that's still active, put it to use and coax him in, and then it becomes a different fight.

Chavez Jr's team recently said if no rematch with Martinez then a move up is likely. They are very smart business wise. They know Sergio still doesn't have another viable opponent who can match Chavez Jr in earnings. Very smart, they are already coaxing him into a ruck and financially they are a P4P team at doing that. However, if this doesn't happen Ward should, as i believe if the Mexican one is actually thinking, he could cause him real problems.

Thoughts?

emore

Chavez was found out, and would be found out all day against Martinez - there was no version of him that could have taken the Argentine. None. He just doesn't possess the skill.

Ward would be a similar case, Chavez doesn't have anything of his dads, besides his chin and his heart.

Its like saying, if Audley Harrison did the same, would he be able to beat Wlad?

No.

Jabmachine your simile is about as accurate as your username. You contradict yourself. Chavez Jr has a lot of heart. Yes, i agree, so why compare him to a man who has absolutely none? Very poor prose, sorry.

Well, you've just earned no further responses by me to any topics you create. Its been a long time coming, because they're often dog doodie anyway

I'll leave you with this. Both professional boxers. Both limited in terms of skill sets, yes? Both could do with actually utilising the advice they're given yes?

But like I said, if all you're going to do is attempt to tear apart what I say - you deserve no response.

Touchy touchy Jabmachine. You started it, and this is a forum.

Sorry if i offended you but it was a bad post, IMO.

If your initial point was what you just posted then maybe i would have gone easier on you. But it wasn't.

I think you're selling Ward wildly short here emore. People always seem to pin him as this savvy inside operator who can rough you up. But, that's only one part of his game. He seems to be able to operate from any distance from what I've seen. I think Ward has more than enough to keep Jr on the end of his punches all night. No need to muscle him at all as far as I can see. And those winging hooks that chavez throws would leave him open to the ridiculous timing that Ward has (that's how he took apart Froch - not so much on the inside). Plus, Ward is a strong SMW and that would negate much of the strength advantage that he enjoys, and needs, over his opponents. If Martinez-Jr was a mismatch, Ward-Jr is an outrageous mismatch - no matter how hypothetically focused Jr was.

davidemore wrote:Jabmachine your simile is about as accurate as your username. You contradict yourself. Chavez Jr has a lot of heart. Yes, i agree, so why compare him to a man who has absolutely none? Very poor prose, sorry.

You've clearly missed, or avoided, the point of JM2's post then. Correcting a fighter's host of flaws with a bunch of 'ifs' is pointless. As JM2 says, 'if' you magically corrected all Audley's flaws he'd prob be HW champion of the world.

I reckon Ward would beat Chavez but tbh Ward has not tested himself by fighting away so imo he is not a true champ until he shows he can beat Froch in a rematch in Nottingham. Chavez should fight Martinez in a rematch and Ward should fight Froch in a rematch imo.

Looks like Jr's team want Ward:

http://www.boxingscene.com/chavez-jr-eyes-move-168-ward-if-no-martinez-ii--57973

This has 'schooled' written all over it. Even if Jr was the most motivated ever, I definitely still take Ward to beat him in all facets of the game - even an up close brawl.

What kind of nonsense is this. Post cultured, not faff.

Meh, more likely Ward gets stripped and Chavez fights some no mark for the vacant title I say. I see Godfather Sulamain has already pretty much withdrawn Jrs fine and suspension on the back of Jrs claim he took it as part of a medical treatment for insomnia.

http://www.boxingscene.com/wbc-back-off-if-chavez-jr-proves-he-smoke--57970

davidemore wrote:What kind of nonsense is this. Post cultured, not faff.

"Cultured faff" would be a good summary of your writing style emore. Entertaining though....a bit like you're writing while on an acid trip.

If Chavez had his head screwed on he would sill have been beaten convincingly by Martinez

You might be selling Chavez a tad short on his workrate as I'm one of his biggest critics. If you remember how awful he was in his early career it's amazing that he became a champion.

He worked very very hard to get to where he is but unfortunately he just isn't a naturally gifted fighter like his father and it shows.

No matter how much work he does he can't learn enough skills to be a match for ward, Martinez etc

Ward boxes the ears off Junior. Junior really is just a tank. He can take a shot and that is about it. If Martinez wasn't so much smaller than Junior he woulda flattened him inside 6.

Ward would maul him.

Jr needs to go in like rocky marciano and hit anything an everything within reach -hes got a fair tank, a good chin but not his fathers talent for picking the right shot nor significant enough power to hurt ward. He needs to knacker him out. I think a predictable ward UD nonetheless.

Boxthis thank you. I think, lol.

Sorry dude, going to call you crazy on this one....

Chavez is a bully who beats on smaller fighters, Ward is much bigger than anyone he has been in with. Ward can fight on the outside or the inside, as Dwyer says.... he is a multi lingual fighter, which means he can fight in many styles.

Chavez would take an absolute hiding in that fight. Ward's speed would totally befuddle him, easy and ridiculously one sided UD. Possibly even a knockout...

Haven't seen the fight, but didn't Ward dominate Miranda from range???

Miranda aint got nothing on my man... Chavez.

He's a son of a legend, don't you know?

i definetly see your point, but chavez jr is far to lazy a fighter to beat ward, he usually gives 5,6 and sometime 7 rounds away before clicking into gear, and by that point it would be to late without a KO (and wards chin has never been in question).

if he had his fathers attitude and workrate then he would be very dangerous, but i just dont see it. this is the guy who gets up at 6pm decides that he doesnt need the best trainer in the world hes just guna move some chairs and touch the pads, and would rather sit their eating a bowl and coco pops staring at his feet instead of listening to his HOF father.

he'd rather pop a few scoobie snacks before a fight and see what happens

His fathers attitude and workrate, selling Chavez Sr a little short there. In his pomp he was an animal and Jr doesn't have an ounce on him for natural ability. Chavez could bully and boss fighters that where bigger than him whereas Chavez struggles to do so against boxers 10-20 lbs lighter than him.

Chavez footwork is clumsy and his combo's are easy to predict. He can't maintain a high workrate as he just doesnt have the stamina needed to do so, not that he doesn't work hard, not every fighter can throw 100 punches a round. He hasn't got any upperbody movement, gets caught flush far to often, has a flimsy guard and lack of ring IQ

Hard work isn't his problem, it's his lack of skill

Oh come on. How many sons of P4P fighters became P4P fighters themselves. Jnr is probably the best of the lot.

when he has his opponent on the rope (minus martinez) he is lethal, his chin and power are also amazing, and with effort he could make waves himself, but he lacks comitment and motivation.

his father was a fighter through and though, maybe he just wants to show he can do it too, but doesnt share the love or desire involved, which is fair enough.

its a shame however as he has a good base he could build on.

He isn't lethal, lethal is not the word to describe his inside game. He normally stifles his own work, trying to land hooks and uppercuts on his opponents when he has height and reach advantages, something he has only used vs Manfredo where he was less than impressive untill the 5th. He may have looked lethal vs lee but beforehand vs Zbik (who he robbed) and Rubio he did what I said, got on the inside and let them work on him without having too much success himself and the awesome power didn't show on fighters where one was knoked out by pavlik easily ad the other knocked out by Sturm

His chin might be slightly overrated too, lets be honest untill marinez no-one had genuine power vs him and once he took a straight left in the 4th round he was shaken and went into a defensive shell untill Martinez punched himself out

martinez has wicked power in both hands and was landing at will, yet didn't hurt him, that for me is a credit to his chin.

i though the fight with zbik was close and by no means a robbery.

think chavez goes to the body as well as any other middleweight.

Martinez does have power (although not too sure with both hands as his right is normally used as a range finder for his left) but he did hurt Chavez but broke his hand in that round. Chavez was caught by a strong left and buckled him and from that round on he went into a shell and boxed uncharecteristcally on the backfoot so was obviously affected by the punches. I didnt say he had a poor chin just it may be overrated

You may not think Zbik was a robbery, although Zbik outlanded and outgrew Chavez in 10 or 11 of the 12 rounds, but Zbik was a paper champ who had no power and got stopped by Sturm who likewise wasn't a huge puncher. Chavez shouldn't have to go life and death with a paper champ