Ambush in Oz

First topic message reminder :

With Kefu,Palau,and Drew Mitchell picked for Brisbane plus Ashley Cooper returning the Wallabies
will be very much stronger than thought previously.Australia in OZ are NEVER a formality so the
record is in real danger.Methinks this could be another Hong Kong certainly not the the pushover
some pundits were predicting.If we go on the 2011 final 3Ns game there could be a lot of injuries
to key NZ players.Also who is subbing for Rettalick as presumeably he is now not available thoughts?

In what way are they not the best in the World?

They just drew (not lost) to Australia (weakened, true, but world number 2s) in Australia at the end of a long season when Australia had nothing to lose except Deans' job. Which they probably want to lose.

They just won the first RC in first gear

They just failed to break a new record for most wins on the trot, and are still unbeaten in a million games or whatever.

Any other side in the world would be delighted with that result. Mocking New Zealand in these circumstances only puts into focus how superior they are to us in everything rugby. We should be embarrassed, frankly

CJ, you are missing the fact that on their day, Wales would do all of that and get the drop goal at the end.

AWOP bringing wales into this is really rather dumb

CJ

Thats the whole point, all that record world cup etc and all they can do is whinge they were robbed, everyone cheated, and the world owes them that result turned over...

I once had a chat with JPR who told me the only gracious Kiwi fan is a football supporter.

thebluesmancometh wrote:For the petty incidents he started and complaints made by his national governing body? Hell ye.

He is a great of the game but the furour surrounding the guy getting looked at the wrong way these days is getting silly. especially by AWOP.

If that was for me on Lions tour wasn't that match in NZ, was the one in SA, if wasn't for me sorry!!!!

Not for you ozt mate! I think anyway!

thebluesmancometh wrote:CJ

Thats the whole point, all that record world cup etc and all they can do is whinge they were robbed, everyone cheated, and the world owes them that result turned over...

I once had a chat with JPR who told me the only gracious Kiwi fan is a football supporter.

Isn't JPR a fairly renowned trouser snake though?

Total trouser snake, but renowned judge of character!

Really? sounds like casual racism to cast aspersions on the character of an entire nation bluesman.

It's not casting aspersions on the Kiwi nation, just the rude and massively ungracious rugby following few. The fact they are kiwis has nothing to do with it, it's just the ungracious and undignified fans he met, and well from my experiences I can't really argue with him.

But of course because I wouldn't argue doesn't mean I think the same way

Well, if he was the trouser snake everyone says he is, then it's hardly surprising people reacted poorly to him. Especially knowledgeable Kiwi rugby fans. Treat others, as the saying goes. I suspect he should seek to remedy his own personal issues before he starts a personal assault on an entire other nation.

Firstly not an entire nation, just a small certain fanbase!!!

Secondly he loved going to NZ and says he was treated godly there, other than in SA amongst the white rugby following.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Firstly not an entire nation, just a small certain fanbase!!!

Secondly he loved going to NZ and says he was treated godly there, other than in SA amongst the white rugby following.

You've back-pedalled. You started with:

"the only gracious Kiwi fan is a football supporter."

Now you are saying it's just a small number of people? Which is it?

And why just "white" rugby following?

Sounds like you've gone for a skate on thin ice here...

He's talking about rugby fans, clearly a small fanbase.

Also he was not endeared to the SA team after chifting 80 yards to drop a saffa lock, the black population loved him for it and strangely the welsh public are received very well partly because of it. I had some of the best times around SA.

So to be clear, you are talking about ALL NZ rugby fans?

Sounds like you are talking a load of fanciful old nonsense there in general, I have to say.

Just watched a brilliant game ,a REAL game none of of the airey fairey stuff.Craig Joubert had an excellent game arguably the best all year. Set piece
lineouts was a bit of a lottery for both sides mainly due to throwing in.
Scrums apart from the Wallabies diving in on a couple of occassions to attempt to milk penalties[one successfully] was solid.
The All Blacks were the only side that nearly scored tries,the Conrad Smith touchdown was more hope than anyrthing.The Wallabie may have failed to apply down would pressure[looked like it from the tv].Both sides got away with offsides,forward passes,and at the Breakdown.
OZ especially sealing off,lazy running and our old friend the" flying wedge"[long time no see.]
McCaw was every where and the last minute attempt to score from 80metres
brilliant decision.No complaints a fair result now we have the record crap out of the way.We can see if they can finish the year unbeaten.
The gentlemen who first kneed McCaw in the face[accidental] but then delivered the "Liverpool Kiss" was lucky to stay on the park.
Had it been Bakkies Botha he would have seen Red,incidentally if OZ play like that in the AI`s.They will take somebeating let alone the AllBlacks.

thebluesmancometh wrote:It's not casting aspersions on the Kiwi nation, just the rude and massively ungracious rugby following few. The fact they are kiwis has nothing to do with it, it's just the ungracious and undignified fans he met, and well from my experiences I can't really argue with him.

me neither....if you had to generalise about Kiwi fans their lack of dignity and grace stands out, many of their fans come across as believing they are owed fealty because they are just so good and are just poor losers when the gameplan fails

enter AWOP stage left

The thing that bothered me Emack, was that Joubert yellow carded Woodcock for a fairly debatable "not releasing" call, just NZ's fourth breakdown penalty. If you're going to be harsh, stay harsh. But as the game neared it's end Australia had conceded 6 of the same offences but didn't yield a card, not to mention an additional 3 unpenalised advantages in quick succession near their own line. That struck me as inconsistency from Joubert. NZ also should have had a penalty in the dying stages on the breakout as Australians repeatedly joined rucks from the wrong side whilst retreating in scramble defensive mode.

I thought Joubert was overly lax with Australia at the breakdown. It reminded me very much of Bryce Lawrence in that RWC game.

It was a game for the purists though, probably why you enjoyed it Emack.

The muggy Brisbane evening is never one for high tempo rugby and I thought Australia came with a simple and effective plan in the conditions. Credit again to Dingo Deans who surely is the only coach in the world who could have fashioned this result, barring Sir Graham Henry himself.

No Mowgli, they don't have to lose, a draw is enough!!

Great effort from deans this tournament. Aussie fans ought to be more grateful of his talents.

anotherworldofpain wrote:The thing that bothered me Emack, was that Joubert yellow carded Woodcock for a fairly debatable "not releasing" call, just NZ's fourth breakdown penalty. If you're going to be harsh, stay harsh. But as the game neared it's end Australia had conceded 6 of the same offences but didn't yield a card, not to mention an additional 3 unpenalised advantages in quick succession near their own line. That struck me as inconsistency from Joubert. NZ also should have had a penalty in the dying stages on the breakout as Australians repeatedly joined rucks from the wrong side whilst retreating in scramble defensive mode.

I thought Joubert was overly lax with Australia at the breakdown. It reminded me very much of Bryce Lawrence in that RWC game.

It was a game for the purists though, probably why you enjoyed it Emack.

The muggy Brisbane evening is never one for high tempo rugby and I thought Australia came with a simple and effective plan in the conditions. Credit again to Dingo Deans who surely is the only coach in the world who could have fashioned this result, barring Sir Graham Henry himself.

honesty AWOP you are such a whinger!!!!!! ref did this, ref did that...what about what NZ didn't do!!!

I will get to that, but my immediate impression I was left with after watching the game was of Joubert's uncharacteristically erratic performance. It was very Lawrencian.

Or northernesque you might say as a kiwi AWOP?

Totally forgot about this and just seen the score. What did I miss? (apart from AWOP's whining). Kiwi's these days eh.

What did you miss a compelling game dominated by defences,with the exception of one incident clean.A penalty shoot out and a thoroughly
enjoyablre game for the purist.The result in doubt into extra time in
my opinion the TMO should have reviewed an attempted try.BUT it was
more hopeful than anything.The Referee Joubert was very fair in my opinion
to both sides.he was`nt whistle happy like Rolland.The result was a fair reflection of the game in my opinion I have no complaints and i`m an avid AB FAN..Don`t beleive those who say the allBlacks played badly they did`nt.
The pace of the game in very Humid conditions caused a lot of errors on both sides.
Australia came with a simple plan to slow the ball down at the Breakdown and play at there own pace.One can see why they did`nt want the 5 second rule at the base of the Rucks especially second half.

+1

Although, I didn't think it a particularly excellent game to watch. That extra time nerve racking finish was exciting though. Joubert is the best around and had nothing to do with the result as far as I'm concerned. Oz showed guts in defence and had a go themselves. Both teams were even with neither really dominating.

Welcome back Oz

Actually missed most of the game as was dining out on the Auckland win over Wellington to set up a canterbury auckland final.
Regardless of why they drew kudos must go to Oz for geeting up for a draw. On paper this should have been a whipping and had oz had 6 or 7 players available half this team would have been different. And would have won.

Hansen has had a bad week all things considered so we move on to the AIs and if the NH sides think things just got easier think again. This side will get better for this.
Well done Australia, and Mr Deans. You've conjured up what I thought would be impossible with that side.

Caught up with the second half and geez the ABs blew it in the second half. Could capitalise on hoopers absence, couldnt score from the oz bad throw in from their line to mccaw, couldn't string passes together and so many times te wrong option to pass, take it up or kick. Oz made terrible mistakes in handling etc but the ABs didn't make anything from them.
Beale knocks on last five minutes then read returns the favour. The basics the Abs are usually so good at let them down terribly.
Second half they just looked flat and disjointed.

Oz targetting the breakdown definitely worked. Can't even say oz fully deserved to win with the mistakes they made but for that side to stay with the Abs they have to be given the credit.

A game for purists? Really? I thought it was two poor performances by two sides unable to even do the basics most of the match. Dropped balls, knock ons, poor options. All summed up by carters missed drop goal, a couple of missed kicks and beales great 50+ goal, the final difference between the two.

Not a lot of highlights from this match. Just a pity the player skill levels were off.

Great speech by mccaw for kev though. Two legends of the game.

Also disagree with the drop goal attempt. We've swung too far in reliance on it. They had perfect field position to take the ball to the line or draw the penalty, the better option in my opinion. For all those in support of taking the famous droppie, where are you now?

Ohhh... bad luck...it missed. Rubbish. Wrong option.drops are always 50- 50. The current rules now support ball retention and the wallabies were struggling at the end. The ABs should have backed themselves to either score or draw the penalty.

That about sums it up Taylorman, neither team really deserved to win it. Aus were going along ok at 15-9 up then made every basic error in the book and of course managed to get a bloke sent off. It's almost like they didn't expect to be winning at that stage of the game and did everything in their power to restore the status quo as quickly as possible.

I can understand why the Wabs were playing for a penalty deep in NZ territory at the death because that was probably our best chance of scoring. We didn't look like scoring a try and I don't know if drop goals are Kurtleys forte. As you say, at best they're a 50/50. In hindsight I wish we'd had a go for it, that way I wouldn't have had to live through the last few minutes where I was sure we were going to concede a penalty.

Yeah just a weird stop start match full of errors. Can't take away the fact that oz did well considering the side they had. Assumption must be that the AB mistakes were due to being put under pressure. They just didn't look under pressure.

A match which both sides probably feel like replaying, but on that performance, the Abs don't deserve the record, which if anything, requires consistency, and last night they were anything but.

But congrats wallabies, at least you've done what no other side has done since we last met at the same venue.

Well done Australia that was the best Australian performance since the semi last year, I just hope these Aussies ( without their big names) can kick on from here and have a good Northern Tour.

I ve always worried about these one off games after the tri/four nations, it has been the perfect opportunity for an ambush, and at Lang Park then even more so.

After a night of dispassionate thought here are my conclusions,for good or ill.Firstly this match was originally billed by pundits as a match to highlight the best in Rugby in far flung places.Now it has just become another match why in Brisbane or NZ? for that matter and why so close to the 4Ns finish.?
Next prepration and team selection it is easy to be wise after the event BUT I forecast it pre-match.Palu `s selection and the flooding of the breakdown area was right out of the 2011 3Ns decider handbook.
The combinations were`nt there for OZ to win but that was`nt the intention
it was just to stop the All Blacks playing.They fielded a huge scrum and it has`nt been anything like as weak as the pundits made out.
The tactic of having two 7s late on by them was very interesting,by contrast the AllBlacks.Made the mistake of tinkering with the team Owen Franks should have started,Ben Franks on the bench.This was`nt the game for a rookie prop no matter how good.Like him or not Ben Franks is a test class prop.
Had it not been Mealamu`s 100th game Hore would have started,Romano would have started for me.Then to get only about 15 minutes.
The ABs were disrupted a bit due to Hansens Father`s illness and subsequent demise.
Motivation the ABs were under enormous pressure from the media to perform
the Wallabies no pressure at all save Deans Job.
Referee,Craig Joubert is THE best in the business the RWC criticisms may have
had an influence in his early rulings.BUT overall he was very fair no Ref would have done better.
Both sides were as good or bad as each other in the conditions made loads of mistakes.If you want to be hyper critical NZ made a lot of breaks on another day they would have finished.
The Drop Goal attempt was the wrong decision?desperately trying defending on there own try line.Go nearly 80 metres and batter away at the other end for several minutes.The try or penalty was`nt coming there was no time take a pot right decision.It missed that summed up the whole game neither side deserved to win or lose.
At least Kevvy did`nt celebrate a loss for his 100th game as John Smit and Percy Montgomery did.
The record is gone but equalling the 1987 sides isn`t a clean sweep inthe AI`s plus a 3-0 win versus France 2013 would establish a new mark.
For those with the sour grapes chokers jibe remember this was the two top rated sides inthe IRB ratings.The All Blacks are STILL unbeaten compare there record with other RWC defending sides.
Well done OZ GREAT GAME for a purist like me good old fashioned arm wrestle
which had Beale had the wit to try a pot could have won.
Finally who but the All Blacks would have attempted to go 80 metres to try and force a win?which nearly came off?
On to the Ai`s and 2013.The best performance since the RWC semi by AUS hardly try final 3Ns match 2011

yeah selections could have had something to do with it and having carter and ben smith on last twenty instead of nonu and smith can't have helped. But these are just minors. The ABs had many chances and fluffed them time after time.

actually Aussie Mike (from Takapuna) had a good game..

............. as Opposed to Kiwis from Fiji, Samoa, etc etc

Pray do tell name me an AB in the current side from Fiji r-w.

Stephen Jones alert

Feel free to mention the Samoan ones as well. It'll be interesting to see which ones you think they are...

There has been a lot of immature nonsense on this thread, the All Blacks drew a game, and people are smarting, how sad.

Imagine your highlight of the weekend has to be the fact that the all BLacks drew a match away from home against the number 2 team in the world, that is truly pathetic.

I just wish they could have had a poor perfromance against us.

Why do we always get them at their best?

It comes with the territory Biltong. I prefer to see it as a compliment. The same people though who comment about how ungracious Kiwi fans are seem happy to come out in results like this and put in their two cents worth yet complain about people trolling on threads involving their own teams. The chicken and the egg theory is their justification but ultimately they're the same thing.

Sweeping generalisations about AB fans when the majority paid their dues to the Wallabies and there were a lot of nerves even before the match. The respect is there. When you hear comments like the ones on this thread, a few fans (not the majority by any means) show that some people don't share that respect. It's pure envy. Sad as it is, it is still a compliment.

Well, as I have advocated without much success over the past few weeks, you can't tar everyone in a country under the same brush.

Yet it seems the pertinent thing to do on 606V2.

I have come to realise when it comes to my own nation, best is just to shu up and walk away.

Yeah doesn't worry me. Actually it hasn't been too bad.

Rapt the ozzies can go forward with some confidence. The biggest thing for me was the error rate by both sides that ruined what could have been more of a spectacle.

Like Hong kong the pressure of the record is now off and that makes it worse fo the NH sides. And like Hong kong we seem to have chosen exactly the right test to not win.

The bled cup was won, it doesn't affect the rugby championship etc etc so perhaps we might say there's no such thing as a dead rubber but perhaps the thought sneaks in somewhere?

I doubt that taylorman, a team who wins 85% of their games will never admit to a though of a dead rubber.

That is a cop out for any team who plays test rugby.

I don't have a problem admitting the ABs played badly yesterday. A few of our top players and upcoming players like Aaron Smith had poor games. We didn't react well to the Wallabies flooding the breakdown area and we paid the price throughout the game. We didn't finish off promising attacks when we had the chance and we made too many mistakes in our own half.

And yet we still drew. A loss for us because obviously we were going for the win. But games like that stick out in the players' memory and that's not necessarily a bad thing. The players looked lethargic out there yesterday but usually a result like this brings out some extra motivation. Inevitably there will be press stories that NZ are vulnerable. They are if you can win the breakdown area as shown in Dunedin and Brisbane. But the coaches will be looking at that and will have to tweak their plans accordingly.

Biltong wrote:I doubt that taylorman, a team who wins 85% of their games will never admit to a though of a dead rubber.

That is a cop out for any team who plays test rugby.

Exactly. That's why I said they would never admit it. Doesn't mean they won't be thinking it. They're human like the rest of us and sometimes the things you need to be there- a trophy, a title etc to make you dig deeper etc.

Nah.

Perhaps...but you and I will never know will we.