Is boxing the dirtiest sport out there now?

Over the weekend I watched BBC Hardtalk on youtube. It was an interview with Lance Armstrong’s former teammate and friend Tyler Hamilton.

Spoiler:

Along with the recent evidence provided by USADA it paints a fairly damaging picture of cycling during that time. One of Hamilton’s quotes was that on one of the famous climbs in the Tour this year, the winner would have been in 45th place back in the doping days. He feels this is evidence that the sport is cleaning itself up.

It did get me thinking about boxing though. Does anyone think that we could, 5 or 10 years down the line see the sport unravel in a similar manner to cycling?

The governing bodies, in terms of incompetence, seem very similar to the UCI. There are scandalous decisions happening frequently. The boxing governing bodies are quite clearly self-fulfilling. Promoters are in it for themselves as well. Essentially, boxing for the large part is crooked. Much like cycling (it seems) in Armstrong’s era.

For me though, I fear we are only currently seeing the tip of the iceberg in terms of the ills of Boxing. Drug testing in the modern era is amateurish to the extent that you have individual boxers basically dictating what the testing requirements will be for a given contest. Even the cyclists had to adhere to random testing 12 months a year in the ‘dirty days’! There are scientists out there who get paid more to hide PED abuse than they would be to detect it. Anyone think these scientists are not involved in boxing??

You are seeing more and more boxers testing positive and more and more allegations suggesting its widespread use - Larry Olubamiwo. Is testing sufficient given there are obviousl are people out there willing to cheat. Larry, interestingly enough, was only caught after a tip off from the US DEA concerned about trafficking of steroids.

My biggest question would be how many boxers use EPO. EPO has a 5 to 6 hour glow period (the time it can be detected after being taken) and the effects can last for up to 90 days, particularly on a sustained usage program. I’m fairly confident given current testing that there’ll be boxers using this. How many? Personally I think the percentages will be high.....

I’ll add the caveat that I’m far from a knowledge on PED’s. I do however have suspicions that their use in boxing could possibly be as widespread as it was in the Armstrong cycling era. We are seeing feats in modern boxing not seen before. Boxers floating through weight decisions with ease. Boxers suddenly becoming concussive punchers. Boxers with massive punch outputs. There are exceptions but i just see a trend developing and without a functional (and respected) governing body to oversee the well being of the sport, there is every reason to suspect the problems run far deeper than Berto, Peterson and Olubamiwo.

Athletics is becoming cleaner, Cycling is becoming cleaner, is boxing becoming dirtier?

I think across the entire sport at all levels, boxing probably would be the worst, however there's some horrendous corruption in football at the highest levels that would put boxing to shame.

I wouldn't look too close at curling, if I was you. Cut throat business, that

Baseball is full of steroid abusers. I bet if you tested them all it would be at least 40%

Seanusarrilius wrote:Baseball is full of steroid abusers. I bet if you tested them all it would be at least 40%

Do you still think so? I'm trying to think if they have a test for HGH yet, but I don't think they do....

i think if you tested all top level fighters you'd get at least 20% of the contestants on something of one kind or another. and if you could test for everything they even taken i bet it would be over 60%

only mma/ufc can compete in terms of users

I posted a similar article couple months ago on here.

EPO not so much in boxing, the adaptations it enhances are not hugely benificial in boxing.

However, testosterone and human growth hormone products are widely used in boxing I assume.

The article was long winded and not well constructed. I was trying to suggest that drug usage could be, and probably is, rife in boxing given the governing bodies ambivalent approach to testing. There's a BBC affiliated pundit with strong opinions on PED's. He's suddenly blazed a trail to become a beltholder and with a career stoppage ratio of 20%, just stopped a guy who's never been put on his arse.

RANDY77 wrote:

EPO not so much in boxing, the adaptations is enhances are not hugely benificial in boxing.

.

EPO is currently fascinating me. It seems, in moderation, something that we should all be taking to preserve our health.

i think because its rife they dont wanna rock the boat, but its guna have to happen at sometime.

I read somewhere that body building has a "dirty" competition ran along side the "clean" competition where use of any substance goes. I hope to god that we do not follow that path.

I've always thought with boxing that there's no reason not to assume they're all on PEDs. In such a sport obviously it's not as benficial because unlike running and swimming or throwing objects it requires a great deal of skill and dexterity but for me the busier boxers perhaps take it as that gives them a notable advantage.

Conte said that the testing in boxing is a joke and it's only there to say that boxing does do drug testing and they have systems in place to catch cheats but it's all just words. The effectiveness is pretty non existant. Test the boxers in the weigh in and that's about it. Hardly any point.

Might be deliberate - A powerhouse boxer with inexhaustable stamina means more money - so they overlook it

Dave. wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Baseball is full of steroid abusers. I bet if you tested them all it would be at least 40%

Do you still think so? I'm trying to think if they have a test for HGH yet, but I don't think they do....

It's riddled with it

If Bonds, Magwire, Conseco and A Rod all did them then imagine how that trickles down.

It's like a running joke a baseball games (I go to a few as I live in North America) with fans shouting "steroids" to the beasts ont he other team and discussing it in the aisles.

seanmichaels wrote:

RANDY77 wrote:

EPO not so much in boxing, the adaptations is enhances are not hugely benificial in boxing.

.

EPO is currently fascinating me. It seems, in moderation, something that we should all be taking to preserve our health.

I completely agree with embracing medical discoveries to preserve life, antibiotics being the best example. However, to introduce a synthetic compound into the human body, when there is actually no medical reason to do so is something I would be highly skeptical of encouraging. I understand EPO is being trialed as a cure for some cancers, but to administer just prolong a 'healthy' human seams a bit like 'playing god'.

Anyways back to the article. I would bet my right arm that over 60% of world rated professional boxers have used some sort of short estered testosterone at some point. Its just too easy to negotiate the current testing regime and the potential gain far outways the risk, with some organisations just choosing to completely ignore failed drugs tests.

i wonder if there are any boxers out there who dont know there taking peds. they get there meals and other suppliments given to them, it would be easy to fools some boxers.

eddyfightfan wrote:i wonder if there are any boxers out there who dont know there taking peds. they get there meals and other suppliments given to them, it would be easy to fools some boxers.

It's not impossible, but most designer steroids with the lowest detection times are injectable, be pretty difficult to not notice steroids being administered by intramuscular means...

i know next to nothing about PEDS, i thought because of the usual excuse of over the counter powders, that is would be digested with liquid. surely if a substance is found that can only be injected then no excuses can explain it?

eddyfightfan wrote:i know next to nothing about PEDS, i thought because of the usual excuse of over the counter powders, that is would be digested with liquid. surely if a substance is found that can only be injected then no excuses can explain it?

You need to google Tyler Hamilton

eddyfightfan wrote:i know next to nothing about PEDS, i thought because of the usual excuse of over the counter powders, that is would be digested with liquid. surely if a substance is found that can only be injected then no excuses can explain it?

Most performance enhancing substances can be administered either orally or by injection, however nine times out of ten detection times are smaller when the compound is administered by intramuscular means.

Masking agents - which are not always on the sports banned substance lists, are used to stop the PED being detected. Sometimes traces of these masking agents can be found in shop bought legal supplements. Hence why athletes use this excuse on a regular basis.

Loophole.

These are really fair points Sean (Michaels). It's something that I've somehow fallen into myself - not taking of course, but within the circle of people I "bother" with.

I've also had a number of conversations with Gabriel Montoya (the guy who exposed the Peterson and Berto PED usage) about usage in the sport and if he had heard of new ways of "beating the system" that I have come across.

What suprises me is the amount of levels it goes into. I would say, based on what I know at the moment that everyone and anyone is taking supliments or trying to gain an edge in conditioning, whether is be designer steroids (such as the ones Victor Conte has previously distributed) or shakes from the back of a magazine.

I'll put it this way, a good friend of mine (who I won't name obviously) works with a number of athletes in sports nutrition, his work is ligitimate and he is hired by a number of rugby teams across the UK. He told me a story about a boxer who wanted to move up in weight and wanted to do so without limiting his speed and endurance, after giving him his advice, the boxer chose to take a slightly easier route... NOW, if I was to tell you this boxer took suppliments that enlarged his heart, liver and created a large amount of water retention - you'd think I was mad. But given the "injuries" said boxer is said to have suffered from prior to some fights, it wouldn't be uncommon for him to simply inform the commission he has taken certain drugs that have given him these side effects. Hiding in plain sight.

But the suppliments he was taking had little to no effect on any HGH tests. Why? The body didn't create the unnatural testosterone that many fighters are tested positive for. Is it cheating? You can be the judge.

As far as I know (from a basic level) a number of anti-doping commissions only look for high levels of testosterone and usage of nandrolone/dieretics (through urine and blood). They cannot clearly identify WHAT drugs are used, as they are simply looking at the levels within the body.

I have no doubt however that using the example above for the guy who moved up in weight, that if there are somewhat unnatural ways to "beat the system" then they are used... afterall, where in the rulebook does it state you're not allowed to englarge organs to put weight on? As far as I know, most anti-doping commissions are only looking at steroids... think tunnel vision.

PED's aren't as simple as injecting this or swallowing that, as long as someone comes up with new "nutritional suppliments" and ways to give the edge, people will take them in all sports... I just think it's more widespread in boxing at the moment as it's the only sport I really follow.

An illegal supplement that only enlarges your major organs?

It doesn't exist, and even if it did, why would you choose to enlarge organs instead of lean body mass?

He's filling you full of tripe mate.

I think it was Langford or Armstrong who had an enlarged heart from birth and could fight at full pelt all day long - maybe thats why - if it does exist that is.

I'm not discounting the fact that a larger cardiac muscle could improve performance. I'm stating there isn't a drug in circulation that can only enlarge the major organs.

HGH will enlarge the major organs if administered correctly, along with lean muscle mass, bone structure, eyes even tumors if they are present!

Im in the gym five times a week, some of the guys in the gym are national champs, alphabet champs, olympians etc. i can undoubtedly state, Boxing is dirtier than the purists think, but much cleaner than the pessimists think. Its usually the broads who are tier II and trying to step up that are dirty. But its the same in any other sport. That said I have always felt that if a person is proven to have doped with a ped, then a jail term should be the punishment. Remember, people can die in this sport, by doping,, you really are playing with someones life.

RANDY77 wrote:An illegal supplement that only enlarges your major organs?

It doesn't exist, and even if it did, why would you choose to enlarge organs instead of lean body mass?

He's filling you full of tripe mate.

Maybe I wasn't too clear. But certainly isn't tripe. Just because someone know's their oxybolons and nandrolines doesn't mean they are a chemist... my source is a very reputable and knowledgable professional in sport. Ask the majority of the guys on Twitter from the site who follow me and they'll tell you that I've done my research.

I didn't catagorically say they were illegal substances/PED's and I thought the reason to use the drugs were clear in the fact he wanted to move up weight.

The facts are, they do exist. As far as I'm aware, products like Rheumatrex and Trexall are available and if taken with correct anti-bodies - they are able to block metabolism. They increase water retention around the body and increase the size of the liver (increasing weight but not muscle mass).
Given the use of the drug (cancers/arthritis) and the team who used it, it would make sense that they opted for this drug as it doesn't effect the testosterone in the bloodstream. There are of course side effects, as with any drug!

But my point in the previous post was, there are many ways to give the edge in boxing... whether they are legal in the sense that the rule books don't mention them is another matter.

Tripe it is not.

What advantages would a boxer get by increasing weight by making parts of their body larger that have no direct impact on the physiological performance??!! Boxers are constantly striving to make weight, and all of a sudden you are claiming the opposite will help them??

There is a misconception that increased muscle mass is directly proportional to a decreased speed...

As somebody who researches to portray their 'knowledge' on social networks I'm assuming you would know this...

If your goal is to move up in weight it is so easy to use testosterone or HGH based products to increase weight whilst adding lean body mass and vastly improve in terms of performance related adaptations and not get caught, why would you increase the size of your liver??!!

In terms of boxing practicality its tripe.

You may call it tripe, you're entitled to your opinion. But it makes you come across a little immature...

I could pose exactly the same question to anyone who injects there bodies with growth hormones. "Why do it?".

It's going to be questionable decision when people stick foreign substances in their body, but given the fact that they do, why question if it's possible or why anyone would do it? I'm sure HGH users don't care about their shrivelled balls or enlarged heart, so why would a guy who wants to make a fortune in a different weight division care about a faus-gras liver??

Boxers are always striving to lose weight, but what if you move to Heavyweight where theres no limit? ”Take the pills, keep your speed, gain weight” the guy got bigger fights, made more money... If you were told you could take some simple tablets, not worry about naturally losing weight when training and make a fortune maybe it makes a little more sense.

Given the fact that there are easier ways to identify HGH use in the sport, do you HONESTLY believe that guys aren't trying out new ways to beat the system??

School Project wrote:You may call it tripe, you're entitled to your opinion. But it makes you come across a little immature...

I could pose exactly the same question to anyone who injects there bodies with growth hormones. "Why do it?".

It's going to be questionable decision when people stick foreign substances in their body, but given the fact that they do, why question if it's possible or why anyone would do it? I'm sure HGH users don't care about their shrivelled balls or enlarged heart, so why would a guy who wants to make a fortune in a different weight division care about a faus-gras liver??

Boxers are always striving to lose weight, but what if you move to Heavyweight where theres no limit? ”Take the pills, keep your speed, gain weight” the guy got bigger fights, made more money... If you were told you could take some simple tablets, not worry about naturally losing weight when training and make a fortune maybe it makes a little more sen

Given the fact that there are easier ways to identify HGH use in the sport, do you HONESTLY believe that guys aren't trying out new ways to beat the system??

You have completely disregarded your initial argument about gaining weight without improving physiological aspects. A point I said in my opinion would not be beneficial.

Who in their right mind would gain weight without improving, when they could just as easily gain weight whilst improving almost every aspect of their physical performance AND NOT GET CAUGHT.

Please refrain from changing the conversation point and just answer the above.

Oh my word... I apologize in advance for this thread being hijacked.

You first believed these drugs didn't exist - I gave you the names of them.

You don't believe they give you super powers like nandroline - I never argued they did.

I'm not going to answer WHY anyone would use it, simply because I'm not a user myself. All I cared to do is share the use of the drug in the first place.

I'm talking about an isolated case where a guy moves UP in weight and does it with a physical aid. Why is it so hard to digest that some guys take diuretics... And it's very damn possible for guys to move up in weight using drugs?

The same could be said about usage of duiretic? Do you honestly think everyone who pumps duiretic into their system "improves" in any way when it comes to performance? Who even said the aim was to improve at all? Those guys want to fight in a different division than what they can physically achieve.

If a guy simply isn't big enough for the weight, no matter their physical make up and decides to increase muscle mass with HGH, what happens? He gets caught... It happened with Holyfield and RJJ Jr at Heavyweight. Both guys were juicing, both were caught. A different guy wants to move up in weight and is introduced to a drug that has no impact on testosterone levels in the body...

It's not an Anabolic, it's not a peptide, agonist or classed as a duiretic... It merely slows metabolism. The user will not be caught.

Do your own research if you don't believe me or still think it's tripe or whatever. I don't want to sound like Trussman here but I'm probably wasting my time responding anyway so I'm done.

When was Holyfield caught?...You sure your not on about Toney?

The genius of PBF wrote:When was Holyfield caught?...You sure your not on about Toney?

He was linked to Victor Conte when he ran BALCO. Although a guy listed under the name of Evan Fields had links to the company. It just so happened thag the guys address, telephone number and DOB were matched to Evander Holyfield.

Linked to the fact that the same drugs prescribed to "Evan Fields" showed up in results for Evander Holyfield against Michael Moorer (HGH claimed to be prescribed for a heart condition not previously mentioned to the NYSAC) pretty much puts Holyfield in possession of HGH. But that was all brushed under until good ol' Victor finally blew the whistle.

I thought it was common knowledge Holyfield was a HGH freak? We've had about a dozen discussions on it on the boards??

School Project, HGH administration would not result in abnormal testosterone levels...

The fact you think so makes your complete argument completely flawless.

You have no idea.

RANDY77 wrote:School Project, HGH administration would not result in abnormal testosterone levels...

The fact you think so makes your complete argument completely flawless.

You have no idea.

School Project I salute thee, you have defeated the randy one.

ShahenshahG wrote:

RANDY77 wrote:School Project, HGH administration would not result in abnormal testosterone levels...

The fact you think so makes your complete argument completely flawless.

You have no idea.

School Project I salute thee, you have defeated the randy one.

Explain yourself?

You said his argument was flawless Suh.

Because if he doesn't realise HGH will not effect testosterone levels it is...

I'm confused....

did someone take drugs to make his liver big so he could go up in weight? Haha! That's stupid. Why didn't they give him drugs to give him big arms, shoulders or legs? ...But his liver??? He may as well have purchased a 7lb prosthetic dong and shoved it in his pants.

TheMackemMawler wrote:I'm confused....

did someone take drugs to make his liver big so he could go up in weight? Haha! That's stupid. Why didn't they give him drugs to give him big arms, shoulders or legs? ...But his liver??? He may as well have purchased a 7lb prosthetic dong and shoved it in his pants.

Phew. I thought I was the only sane person on here...

Yes im aware of Holyfield's past...I thought you meant he failed a drug test.

School Project wrote:Oh my word... I apologize in advance for this thread being hijacked.

You first believed these drugs didn't exist - I gave you the names of them.

You don't believe they give you super powers like nandroline - I never argued they did.

I'm not going to answer WHY anyone would use it, simply because I'm not a user myself. All I cared to do is share the use of the drug in the first place.

I'm talking about an isolated case where a guy moves UP in weight and does it with a physical aid. Why is it so hard to digest that some guys take diuretics... And it's very damn possible for guys to move up in weight using drugs?

The same could be said about usage of duiretic? Do you honestly think everyone who pumps duiretic into their system "improves" in any way when it comes to performance? Who even said the aim was to improve at all? Those guys want to fight in a different division than what they can physically achieve.

If a guy simply isn't big enough for the weight, no matter their physical make up and decides to increase muscle mass with HGH, what happens? He gets caught... It happened with Holyfield and RJJ Jr at Heavyweight. Both guys were juicing, both were caught. A different guy wants to move up in weight and is introduced to a drug that has no impact on testosterone levels in the body...

It's not an Anabolic, it's not a peptide, agonist or classed as a duiretic... It merely slows metabolism. The user will not be caught.

Do your own research if you don't believe me or still think it's tripe or whatever. I don't want to sound like Trussman here but I'm probably wasting my time responding anyway so I'm done.

RJJ was found to have Andros in his system. Apparently it was banned by the IBF only. The WBA/C/O/+ didn't have it in their banned list.

It was also on the WADA list of banned substances so there's no defending Jones in this, he was caught and got away with it because of his profile, he will and always will remembered as a cheat to me.

If it was on the WADA list why didn't the other governing bodies have it banned? Do you know how it all actually works with regards to what WADA have on a banned list & how the governing bodies interpret & apply it? Seems very confusing.

WADA have a list of substances that are banned by them but it only applies to sports and organisations that use them, in boxing it is the choice of the governing bodies and not WADA what they consider to be illegal substances. It's all very confusing when there isn't one set of rules cast across the whole of boxing.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:WADA have a list of substances that are banned by them but it only applies to sports and organisations that use them, in boxing it is the choice of the governing bodies and not WADA what they consider to be illegal substances. It's all very confusing when there isn't one set of rules cast across the whole of boxing.

So its basically down to the ruling body of any sport whether they follow WADA's guidelines or not, FIFA for example could choose not to follow WADA & footballers could choose to take what they want & testing would be redundent? Yes within boxing it is confusing although I'd like to think they'd all moved into line with each other. I think in an earlier post somebody mentioned how they only seem to be bothered about the test going on fight night opening the doors to abuse throughout the year or the WBC at least. Didn't Jones opponent also test positive for a banned substance that night?