ERC round 2 Munster Vs Edinburgh Sunday 21st (kick-off 12.45pm).

Well 2 sides licking their wounds after a disapointing start to both of their Heineken cup campeigns.

One team's wounds are considerably deeper and more painful and will have no doubt had a massive psychological impact.

Still, Thormond has been a happy hunting ground for Edinburgh in the past...... hasn't it?

Well Bradley being and ex Munster man will know exactly what his troops are going to face at the weekend.

Edinburgh may be without Visser and Laidlaw after they were injured in the drubbing they received from the Saffercens and Musnter may be without Mr Dependable Ronan O'Gara.

I open the floor to discussion, banter and gentle mocking. Be gentle with us though Munster fans, we were taking some pelters on that other thread!

Munster

15. Denis Hurley
14. Doug Howlett capt,
13. Casey Laulala
12. James Downey
11. Simon Zebo
10. Ian Keatley
9. Conor Murray
1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Mick Sherry
3. BJ Botha
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Donnacha Ryan
7. Sean Dougall
8. Peter O'Mahony

Replacements:
16. Damien Varley
17. Marcus Horan
18. Stephen Archer
19. Billy Holland
20. Paddy Butler
21. Duncan Williams
22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Felix Jones

Edinburgh

15 Greig Tonks
14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tim Visser
10 Gregor Hunter
9 Richie Rees

1 John Yapp
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Sean Cox CAPTAIN
6 David Denton
7 Stuart McInally
8 Netani Talei

Substitutes
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Robin Hislop
18 Willem Nel
19 Robert McAlpine
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Chris Leck
22 Matt Scott
23 Tom Brown.

My thoughts..... we are going to get bashed.

Barley 2-3 players played well in our game against Saracens but what can Bradley do? Save beast the players at training sessions and make them suffer.

He can't exacly drop the whole team.

Talei has to start for me. McInally didn't really do much wrong but when Talei came on he battered through the gain line and got us some of the hard yards with his big carries.

On Edinburgh's website Talei said :

“The boys are still on a low at the moment because we didn’t perform to the standard that this club demands. Every single individual involved with Edinburgh Rugby is hurting.

“Munster will be too, and will be coming out twice as hard as last weekend because, like us, they want to stay in the competition.

“We need to regroup and recapture that buzz in the team. We need to pick ourselves up and work hard in training this week to improve for the next match, and work on our plans to beat Munster on Sunday.

“It has to be a good week for us. We need to re-set our minds and prepare our bodies physically for a very big challenge.”

So with a bit of luck Bradley and Back will have had some horrendous and punishing training sessions on the go all this week. In particular basic passing drills and training on tackling!

I can't see Burgh winning tbh, Radge, but an improvement from the Sarries game is eminently possible (and in fact an absolute must)

I think we'll see a significantly better performance, but don't think it will be enough. Scottish teams historically pick themselves up fairly well after disasters and this team has shown that on it's day it can pretty much beat most teams.

We have the ability to beat Munster - no doubt - it is just whether the players have the confidence and mental strength to do so. I suspect not.

Visser and Laidlaw will be a massive blow if they are ruled out.

Laidlaw? You know what - nmaybe he could do with a spot ont eh bench. He must carry some of the blame for last weekend?

Who will play instead? leonard?

Also I agree on McInally. I know he wasn't the only one but he was anonymous in that game. Talei was our start of the HK last year - one of the best players in the tournament last year - and gives us so much go forward and physicallity we desperately need him back.

We've been here before with McInally - shows up well in early Rabbo games and disappears when it gets to the big games against big teams.

Laidlaw is the captain and talisman of the team. When he played well last year, the team played well.

He's not been on form this year at all, but Leonard or Hunter haven't been more than average any time they have played.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Agree that Laidlaw must start if fit. Leonard was hardly inspiring coming on against Sarries.

Can't see many changes. As above, Talei coming in is the right thing to do, but personally I'd pretty much keep the same team, and let them know that it's last chance saloon.

p.s. two tickets for Scotland vs NZ for sale. Face value £40 each. Willing to sell at £50 for the pair. Any takers please PM.

I didn't see the Munster game - will be interesting to hear where Munster fans think they need to improve.

RDW,

Breakdown, Decision Making and Leadership

see anything but an Edinburgh loss here!

Unless something drastic happens that kick starts Edinburgh's season!

tigertattie wrote:see anything but an Edinburgh loss here!

You see anything but an Edinburgh loss???

*cant

dunno where that word went!!!

I suspected that was the case!

ya never know, it might be a sign!!! maybe we will see an Edinburgh win???

There's got to be a flying pig icon somewhere....

its a really skinny pig!

Yes, as Stag said above, for 20 minutes we did the right things and what surprised me most was the solidity of our scrum, but as soon as POC knocked on while trying to score our second try and then the slightly harsh relieving penalty at the ensuing scrum, the game changed. The weather got worse and we made errors in judgement to compound the inevitable mistakes on such a manky manky day. I love him as a player, but Conor Murray had a bad day at the office and pretty much every mistake or bad decisiion, cost Munster points of our own or conceeded them on the score board to Racing.

Losing ROG however, mightn't be the loss it would once have been, even a mere 7 or 8 months ago. Hopefully Keatley has learned enough that he can dictate & manage a game for 80 mins the way ROG can/could.

ROG missing means we might get to see JJ Hanrahan on the bench.

The oap missing might also see woeful directionless play as we had for 50 mins after he left the field last week

See that Edinburgh are putting on free snacks at the Murrayfield and the 3 sisters for Edinburgh fans watching the game. Nice gesture, but an all out apology from the coach and captain would have been nicer!

Dave Denton made an apology

He did, but he's not the captain or coach!

I know there's no point in labouring it but it was a decent crowd by Edinburgh's standards considering it was a Saturday afternoon and a lot of hte regular support would have ben playing rugby. There was literally nothing to cheer about all game, and with the tickets being at least 20 quid for an adult I just think there should have been more of an apology and a thank you to the support!

The squad won't be named til later but think we could be looking at:

01 Dave Kilcoyne
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Billy Holland
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Donnacha Ryan
07 Sean Dougall
08 Peter O'Mahony
09 Conor Murray
10 Ian Keatley
11 Simon Zebo
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett (capt.)
15 Denis Hurley

16 Mike Sherry
17 Marcus Horan
18 Stephen Archer
19 Dave O'Callaghan
20 Paddy Butler
21 Peter Stringer
22 JJ Hanrahan
23 Danny Barnes

Stag, how long will Earls be out for? Is he missing the Novemeber Ints?

By all accounts yes Earls won't be fit for them and its unlikely O'Gara will either.

O'Callaghan, Du Preez and Coughlan should be back in few weeks.

red_stag wrote:The squad won't be named til later but think we could be looking at:

01 Dave Kilcoyne
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Billy Holland
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Donnacha Ryan
07 Sean Dougall
08 Peter O'Mahony
09 Conor Murray
10 Ian Keatley
11 Simon Zebo
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett (capt.)
15 Denis Hurley

16 Mike Sherry
17 Marcus Horan
18 Stephen Archer
19 Dave O'Callaghan
20 Paddy Butler
21 Peter Stringer
22 JJ Hanrahan
23 Danny Barnes

That teams isn't as scary as the Munster teams used to be but still think it will have more than enough for an Edinburgh team in disarray.

Don't know much about your 1,2,4 and 7 - what's the chat with them?

Varley is a rough diamond, could be something special but is nowhere near the finished article and isn't a youngter anymore either, good in the loose though.

Kilcoyne is a (relatively) young prop and has potential, did pretty well against a vaunted French opponant last weekend but again not the finished product at all and mightn't become it either.

Billy Holland was one half of the 2nd row pairing that did a number on Australia in Novemeber 2010. Now, with guys like POC, DOC, MOD (until last season) and Donnacha Ryan as well as Ian Nagle, he hasn't been exposed to this level until this season. There are guys better placed to comment but if I had to describe him I'd say he could be an excellent provincial/club level player but is unlikely to ever be International standard, imho. Could be wrong of course.

Dougal, he is a young 7 and while not as talented as his number 8 partner Peter O'Mahoney, is the typical Munster player and has time to become very good. I hope. We need to replenish the backrow stocks after retirements and injuries etc. Of those four guys, the one with real potential to become good.

Edinburgh are a conundrum. To all intents and purposes the team that went out and got mullered by Sarries has very few differances between them and the team who beat Toulouse.

Good players don't just all of a sudden become bad overnight.

I'm still kind of hopeful the guys can dust themselves down and make a game of it on Sunday.

If they the play the way they did in the HC last year there is no reason why they can't go to Thormond and win. However if they go to Thormond and play like they did on Saturday, devoid of ideas and running into contact from deep behind the gain line we'll get hosed.

David Rudisha and his coach, the legendary Bro. Colm O'Connell (from Cork) will be at the game on Sunday. Bro O'Connell wears a Munster baseball hat when training his Kenyan athletes so is obviously a Munster fan.

Members of the Irish Paralympics team from Munster are also guests in Thomond.

RDW_Scotland wrote:He did, but he's not the captain or coach!

I know there's no point in labouring it but it was a decent crowd by Edinburgh's standards considering it was a Saturday afternoon and a lot of hte regular support would have ben playing rugby. There was literally nothing to cheer about all game, and with the tickets being at least 20 quid for an adult I just think there should have been more of an apology and a thank you to the support!

Agreed - and that was a big crowd for Edinburgh - the team should be embarrassed at giving the fans that dross.

Edinburgh team announced at lunchtime today.

I have a funny feeling he is going to continue with his one week on one week off approach and rotate Rennie again and bring in Grant. Not a good idea IMO. Let's see what happens!

This squad rotation policy is a bad way to run a Rugby Club. I know it's going to be a long season for a lot of these guys but he isn't giving the players a chance to gel with all this chopping and changing.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh team announced at lunchtime today.

I have a funny feeling he is going to continue with his one week on one week off approach and rotate Rennie again and bring in Grant. Not a good idea IMO. Let's see what happens!

Grant is starting for Melrose down at the Greenyards on Saturday.

Ooh - guess not then!

He'll be a great player for Melrose to have in the BI cup

You're right - Rennie's not playing. But McInally has taken the 7 shirt. Probably paying for having such a sh!t game on Saturday.

Team announced:

15 Greig Tonks

14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tim Visser

10 Gregor Hunter
9 Richie Rees

1 John Yapp
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Sean Cox CAPTAIN
6 David Denton
7 Stuart McInally
8 Netani Talei

Substitutes
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Robin Hislop
18 Willem Nel
19 Robert McAlpine
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Chris Leck
22 Matt Scott
23 Tom Brown

Atiga? He hasn't been match fit yet IMO.

We possibly have the capacity to challeneg up front but we'll miss Rennie's breakdown work in open play.

This could be another thumping.

Hey guys, first time post here, was just skulking in the background and saw the edinburgh team posted and was agitated enough to create an account and post my thoughts: Bradley has caught "Rob Moffatitis"... which can be defined in any up-to-date medical journal as "complete insanity - symptoms may include never picking the same balanced backrow from week to week - see the 3 openside experiment/failure"... Probably going to lose but still got a fiver on Visser to score a try

Munster Teamsheet:

15. Denis Hurley
14. Doug Howlett capt,
13. Casey Laulala
12. James Downey
11. Simon Zebo
10. Ian Keatley
9. Conor Murray
1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Mick Sherry
3. BJ Botha
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Donnacha Ryan
7. Sean Dougall
8. Peter O'Mahony

Replacements:

16. Damien Varley
17. Marcus Horan
18. Stephen Archer
19. Billy Holland
20. Paddy Butler
21. Duncan Williams
22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Felix Jones

The Headline on the Munster Website says no surprises but I think a couple of the inclusions were not necessarily 100% certain all the same. I like that team. If the rian holds off we could have a decent game.

Tramptastic welcome aboard!

No real surprises from Munster. I fully expect them to beat Edinburgh by more than 7 points.

Wow, where to start with this??

I need to read the reasoning behind these selections before I comment on this one.

Thanks Radge! Yeh in past years if there was no ROG I'd have been hopeful but Keatley has been on good form and from what I recall had a particularly good game against us at the start of the season!

Tramptastic - welcome!

Especially if you're an Edinburgh fan!

Taking on Munster without a single specialist flanker in the squad is a new one, and picking four number 8's also must be some sort of record.

Cross ahead of Nel - well given Nel has conceded about 100 million penalties in the last two games I can sort of understand it, but I haven't had the impression that Cross has improved matters when coming on. Perhaps he's picked for his mobility in the loose, given the lack of openside.

Atiga ahead of Scott - my guess here is that Atiga is the stronger defender and tackler, and with Downey and Lualua to defend against, he is in the side on that basis. Strongly disagree with the decision however.

I suspect we had little choice in the remainder of decisions. Delighted that Visser and Tonks are fit to play. Gives me some hope.

A forlorn hope?

Playing without an openside against a team like Munster who love to spoil the ball and slow it down is a massive error on Bradley's part. What is he thinking?

If he does want to get himself sacked this isn't a very subtle way of doing it.

Welcome Tramptastic

On the Embra team selection, oh dear

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:If he does want to get himself sacked this isn't a very subtle way of doing it.

Perhaps Toonie could be appointed to coach Glasgow and Edinburgh simultaneously.

Gregor Townsend - Grand Master of Scottish Club Rugby.

Nice ring to it.

Let's get Rob Baxter away from Exeter to sort us out. He must be sick and tired of overachieving and winning matches, and having to deal with mentally strong players who bleed for the jersey rather than accept defeat. Plus it would annoy ASBO....