ERC round 2 Munster Vs Edinburgh Sunday 21st (kick-off 12.45pm).

First topic message reminder :

Well 2 sides licking their wounds after a disapointing start to both of their Heineken cup campeigns.

One team's wounds are considerably deeper and more painful and will have no doubt had a massive psychological impact.

Still, Thormond has been a happy hunting ground for Edinburgh in the past...... hasn't it?

Well Bradley being and ex Munster man will know exactly what his troops are going to face at the weekend.

Edinburgh may be without Visser and Laidlaw after they were injured in the drubbing they received from the Saffercens and Musnter may be without Mr Dependable Ronan O'Gara.

I open the floor to discussion, banter and gentle mocking. Be gentle with us though Munster fans, we were taking some pelters on that other thread!

Munster

15. Denis Hurley
14. Doug Howlett capt,
13. Casey Laulala
12. James Downey
11. Simon Zebo
10. Ian Keatley
9. Conor Murray
1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Mick Sherry
3. BJ Botha
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Donnacha Ryan
7. Sean Dougall
8. Peter O'Mahony

Replacements:
16. Damien Varley
17. Marcus Horan
18. Stephen Archer
19. Billy Holland
20. Paddy Butler
21. Duncan Williams
22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Felix Jones

Edinburgh

15 Greig Tonks
14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tim Visser
10 Gregor Hunter
9 Richie Rees

1 John Yapp
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Sean Cox CAPTAIN
6 David Denton
7 Stuart McInally
8 Netani Talei

Substitutes
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Robin Hislop
18 Willem Nel
19 Robert McAlpine
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Chris Leck
22 Matt Scott
23 Tom Brown.

Great game from the big man. Hope he has an injury free season and he can make a much deserved 3rd Lions tour. Best player on the pitch today by miles.

rodders wrote:

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:

DOD wrote:Doc just cleared out a couple of rucks...whats your point...Downey is just a donkey.

Also Murray at last makes a break...Edinburgh have just been fanning out across the field and we havent been exploiting around the fringes (alá the all blacks)...

My point is having attacking structures with him on the wing is an entirely useless strategy. He's spending a LOT of time in wide channels.

If you look at the New Zealand teams they do the same, you always have two forwards on each wing, and their job is to clear the rucks in the wide channel, Munster have a lot of work to do, but the hope must be that they get there soon enough.

Yes but in NZ the forwards can actually handle the ball, that is the difference.

Yes, but that doesn't mean Irish provinces shouldn't be aiming to get their players up to that standard. Like I said Munster have a lot of work to do.

Zebo hasn't been as good today as he was in the previous matches this season.

Holland for POC is like bringing on Glenn Whelan for Iniesta.

Right I'm just holding out for some Edinburgh points now...

'it went backwards but he was in front of the man that played it' - eh, what?

Holland has been playing very well this year....

RDW_Scotland wrote:'it went backwards but he was in front of the man that played it' - eh, what?

Yeah what the hell Barnes!! He comes out with some bloody odd decisions at times. Probably my least favourite ref

Val I agree with what you are saying in principal. However the reality is that there is no point, going through the phases to manufacture an overlap if the guy on the overlap is O'Callaghan or O'Connell.

The players you have need to fit the system. Munsters problem is that some do and some don't. If you want to play that way then the tight 5 guys you have on the wide channels need to be comfortable on the ball.

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:He is and he isn't. I'm not singling out DOC, I'm merely using him as an example of whats wrong with Munster.

He could be doing a lot more donkey work if the gameplan gave him license to focus on that.

There are a lot of other things wrong with Munster....

Oh yeah, and Leinster and Ulster. All three provinces have a lot of unfulfilled potential and areas to work on.

Pass, Pass, fumble, Knock on... I'll bet that Edinburgh don't score a single point today, they are playing some of the crapest rugby I've ever seen.

We're going to get zero again aren't we?

Laughing stock

Oh yeah a word for Edinburgh in saying that... this is bad. This is very bad.

Oh just stick it up the jumper lads...its just not in your DNA to do otherwise...

rodders wrote:Val I agree with what you are saying in principal. However the reality is that there is no point, going through the phases to manufacture an overlap if the guy on the overlap is O'Callaghan or O'Connell.

The players you have need to fit the system. Munsters problem is that some do and some don't. If you want to play that way then the tight 5 guys you have on the wide channels need to be comfortable on the ball.

But the point isn't for Doc or Poc to receive the ball on the overlap, the fact that they are receiving it on the overlap is poor decision making by other players. The younger locks that they have coming through will be able to take advantage of overlaps, but they really are supposed to be the ones receiving it.

Hurley/Holland are really both horrific players.

I'm going to become a zebre supporter

Embarrassing, very embarrassing. Also looking at how poor Edinburgh are at the moment and looking at our fixtures list I can't see when the next win will come?

Toulon have taken a clear lead against Cardiff with Armitage touching down.

English players seem to be giving French teams an extra boost.

And O'Mahony manages to squeeze over for the second try and Keatley converts.

Can they get two more with 8 minutes to go?

valjester wrote:

rodders wrote:Val I agree with what you are saying in principal. However the reality is that there is no point, going through the phases to manufacture an overlap if the guy on the overlap is O'Callaghan or O'Connell.

The players you have need to fit the system. Munsters problem is that some do and some don't. If you want to play that way then the tight 5 guys you have on the wide channels need to be comfortable on the ball.

But the point isn't for Doc or Poc to receive the ball on the overlap, the fact that they are receiving it on the overlap is poor decision making by other players. The younger locks that they have coming through will be able to take advantage of overlaps, but they really are supposed to be the ones receiving it.

Hurley/Holland are really both horrific players.

Clueless.

Notch wrote:

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:He is and he isn't. I'm not singling out DOC, I'm merely using him as an example of whats wrong with Munster.

He could be doing a lot more donkey work if the gameplan gave him license to focus on that.

There are a lot of other things wrong with Munster....

Oh yeah, and Leinster and Ulster. All three provinces have a lot of unfulfilled potential and areas to work on.

No I don't think so Notch. I think there is a clear vision at the other provinces, Connacht included, and a buy in to the gameplan by the players. Square pegs in square holes.

Munster and Ireland are the two teams in Ireland which seem unclear and uncomfortable with what they are trying to do on the field imo.

Proper Munster try by O'Mahoney.

All out for TBP now with that third try.

DOD wrote:Oh just stick it up the jumper lads...its just not in your DNA to do otherwise...

Nah, I like what Penney is doing in general and I think it will pay off. But these are the wrong tactics for this game. Maybe Munster can score two tries in the next 8 minutes but given the standard of the opposition this is a missed try bonus point.

But not yet, cause they've just gone down there and got the first. The fourth try is a necessity for Munster here. Must be clinical.

Yes they can !

Great burst by Keatley and finish by Dougal.

Lovely kick by Keatley

G'wan Munster!!

Lualala goes for the miracle offload every bloody time. He hasn't been great for Munster at all since he joined.

Lovely from Keatley. Proper Leinster try from Munster .

G'wan lads keep her lit.

Fair points Val, the guys on the inside need to take responsibility but when you have a 2 on 1 then you take an give. The receiver needs to be capable on the ball too.

DOD wrote:

valjester wrote:

rodders wrote:Val I agree with what you are saying in principal. However the reality is that there is no point, going through the phases to manufacture an overlap if the guy on the overlap is O'Callaghan or O'Connell.

The players you have need to fit the system. Munsters problem is that some do and some don't. If you want to play that way then the tight 5 guys you have on the wide channels need to be comfortable on the ball.

But the point isn't for Doc or Poc to receive the ball on the overlap, the fact that they are receiving it on the overlap is poor decision making by other players. The younger locks that they have coming through will be able to take advantage of overlaps, but they really are supposed to be the ones receiving it.

Hurley/Holland are really both horrific players.

Clueless.

Why? Neither of them would start for Connacht, they are both underpowered and make too many mistakes for a top team. I would be disappointed if either of them started a game for Ulster in the B&I.

Zebo is my hero.

Great to see Jones back.

Jeez every time i see Jones taking contact i cross my fingers

So Edinburgh have an advantage, ball goes backward, advantage over??

What the hell is happening at Edinburgh.

Littered with errors, passive in contact and completely devoid of ideas with ball in hand.

Sort it out Bradley, this is embarrassing.

Great stuff from Varley. He needs a haircut though.

Come on catch and drive lads!

Unf&€@ing believeable! Varley over for the fourth.

Munster get the TBP.

Well done Munster. nice bonus point

That's the stuff! Well done lads! for DOD!

Gee val great burst by Hurley...I dont give a flying f..k who starts for Ulster...

0-45 and then 33-0 not a good couple of weeks from Edinburgh

valjester wrote:Why? Neither of them would start for Connacht, they are both underpowered and make too many mistakes for a top team. I would be disappointed if either of them started a game for Ulster in the B&I.

God you've done it now! Thats a weee bit strong. Just a few years ago I went to see Munster A hammer the Ulster Ravens with Billy Holland having a pivotal role.

Great finish from Munster. Great job turning it on at the end. Still PLENTY for Penney and co. to work on but thats the same with all the provinces. That bonus point NEEDED to be taken. But my god Edinburgh. I've never seen such capitulation! Even Aironi put up a fight while they existed, even Zebre put points on the board every week.

0-45 and 35-0? Absolutely diabolical showing from Edinburgh and this is a team that prioritise the Cup over the league? My commiserations to Edinburgh fans. Can't believe that.

RDW_Scotland wrote:So Edinburgh have an advantage, ball goes backward, advantage over??

Yeah that was a shocker! And it gifted Munster the BP try in the end

Bradley's darkest day in Scotland.

Not a point scored in two H Cup matches.

Even Zebre have done better than this.

Golden wrote:0-45 and then 33-0 not a good couple of weeks from Edinburgh

You can say that again

rodders wrote: That's the stuff! Well done lads! for DOD!

Cheers Rodders....we were still sh1te....just that E'burgh are just awful....

Our midfield is absolutely clueless without Earls and Hanrahan needs to get fasttracked....Keatley is still mediocre.

On the plus front we have a decent forward pack with about 12 good players, Kilcoyne looks like he is a good find and we arent missing du preez...Dougall is starting to show more in the loose.

Would like to see POM made captain...its time to move on from the oldies.

for Billser.... SinE and Stag too when they show up.

Fairly poor showing but great finish from the Munstermen. Pick and go/Catch and drive heaven at the end.

Jeebus Edinburgh that was woeful. Get some down ye!

RDW_Scotland wrote:So Edinburgh have an advantage, ball goes backward, advantage over??

Not watching the match so I don't know the answer but if it was advantage for a knock on then it always ends quickly and from what you guys have been saying a scrum to Edinburgh might just be the last thing they wanted, no?

If it was a penalty advantage then ignore what I just said!

Sounds like Munster woke up in the final quarter or was it just that Edinburgh gave up?

Edinburgh give up? Jeebus they didn't even turn up Mrs P!

Notch wrote:

valjester wrote:Why? Neither of them would start for Connacht, they are both underpowered and make too many mistakes for a top team. I would be disappointed if either of them started a game for Ulster in the B&I.

God you've done it now! Thats a weee bit strong. Just a few years ago I went to see Munster A hammer the Ulster Ravens with Billy Holland having a pivotal role.

Great finish from Munster. Great job turning it on at the end. Still PLENTY for Penney and co. to work on but thats the same with all the provinces. That bonus point NEEDED to be taken. But my god Edinburgh. I've never seen such capitulation! Even Aironi put up a fight while they existed, even Zebre put points on the board every week.

0-45 and 35-0? Absolutely diabolical showing from Edinburgh and this is a team that prioritise the Cup over the league? My commiserations to Edinburgh fans. Can't believe that.

Yes but the B&I should be used for the development of younger players who are going to come through and contribute to the first team, Holland is too underpowered for the second row and too slow for the back row, he will never be a mainstay of the Munster team and they are handicapping themselves by giving him gametime at the expense of players with better potential. Munster will be much stronger when they get Stander into the backrow or Coughlan back and can play D. Ryan in the second row. They also need Earls back asap.

The Sky panel saying that Munster should go back to their traditional game plan, ignores that Munster no longer have their monster pack, they can no longer just overpower teams, their forwards are very young and very light. They will get better though.

So some cracking double headers coming up to likely decide some pool results.

Ulster v Northampton with Ulster on the front foot.

Leinster v Clermont with Clermont on the front foot.

Munster v Saracens with Saracens on the front foot.

Ospreys v Toulouse with ??? on the front foot

Pot Hale wrote:So some cracking double headers coming up to likely decide some pool results.

Ulster v Northampton with Ulster on the front foot.

Leinster v Clermont with Clermont on the front foot.

Munster v Saracens with Saracens on the front foot.

Ospreys v Toulouse with ??? on the front foot

Leinster Clermont is going to be unreal, but I fancy Leinster to get the better off it, Clermont are annoyingly inconsistent and since Scmidt has left their backplay leaves an awful lot to be desired, mistakes and wrong options galore.

MrsP wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:So Edinburgh have an advantage, ball goes backward, advantage over??

Not watching the match so I don't know the answer but if it was advantage for a knock on then it always ends quickly and from what you guys have been saying a scrum to Edinburgh might just be the last thing they wanted, no?

If it was a penalty advantage then ignore what I just said!

Sounds like Munster woke up in the final quarter or was it just that Edinburgh gave up?

It was a knock on - ball went 10m backward, advantage over called, then lost a pen for holding on and Munster then go for their bp try!

Would awarding a scrum to Edinburgh have been an advantage though?

As I say, wasn't watching but it sounds like the scrum was very one sided.

for the Edinburgh fans.

Any idea what the problem is? Scoring points has never been a problem for this team before.