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VivaPaulScholes wrote:Well Kewell got injured early on in the game, Smicer did play his part with the long range goal. Maybe Liverpool would have lost 3-0 or maybe someone else would have taken the game by the neck and got them back into it.

Its Football anything can happen, they said the same about United when Keane, Schmichael, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Scholes etc left the team.

It's all conjecture though. Looking at the facts, Gerrard did it. He didn't do it only once either, he has rescued Liverpool so many times that it can't be luck. He has the 'clutch' gene, and he comes up big when his team need him most.

I'm not asking you to love Gerrard, but maybe to take of the blinkers and give him a little credit.

Keane v Juventus isn't as good as Ballack v South Korea in the World Cup 2002 semi final.

Really?!!?!? You mean score the only goal of the game to get Germany to the final when he was suspended from the final.

So by your logic when you are suspended from the Final or the tournament, scoring to win 1-0 is better then leading your team back from two goals down to win.

Soddy, you are right Gerrard did it a lot for liverpool. Many a time he carried/saved them. He turned up in big games when needed. I will give him that.
What Keane did showed a heck of a lot of character. Had Gerrard be in Keanes position I doubt he would of shown the same character. Ill go as far as saying Gerrard would of most likely bottled it then pulled out such preformance.

This has caused a right little debate. Quite split on opinions from people here too, just a few more in Gerrards favour I think.

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Well Kewell got injured early on in the game, Smicer did play his part with the long range goal. Maybe Liverpool would have lost 3-0 or maybe someone else would have taken the game by the neck and got them back into it.

Its Football anything can happen, they said the same about United when Keane, Schmichael, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Scholes etc left the team.

It's all conjecture though. Looking at the facts, Gerrard did it. He didn't do it only once either, he has rescued Liverpool so many times that it can't be luck. He has the 'clutch' gene, and he comes up big when his team need him most.

I'm not asking you to love Gerrard, but maybe to take of the blinkers and give him a little credit.

I'm a United fan and because he plays for Liverpool I'm being biased or unfair? Gerrard is a good player and in the big games he does shows his worth but so many so called "smaller" games he dissapears. To me he is abit of a Le Tissier where he didn;t have the bottle to move to a bigger side because he was comfortable at where he was. If Liverpool competed for the title fair enough but at best they were at 4th ranked team and Gerrard was happy to feed into the cowpat of being a world class great legend player at Pool because he knew his legacy at say Chelsea would get destroyed and show him up for the player he is not the world class some people claim him to be.

England only have one world class player Paul Scholes.

Actually, as far as England defenders go, John Terry has to go down as world class.

I think he used to be world class.

I define world class as someone who could be picked in a world XI and not look out of place. Gerrard from 2004-2009 would qualify for me, and many others I am sure.

Marky wrote:Actually, as far as England defenders go, John Terry has to go down as world class.

Stop Wumming Marky.

If that Kumquat is world class Rio is Galaxy Universe class.

Changing the subject slightly, can you name an English player, past or present, who'd get into the current Barcelona team?

sodhat wrote:I think he used to be world class.

I define world class as someone who could be picked in a world XI and not look out of place. Gerrard from 2004-2009 would qualify for me, and many others I am sure.

Gerrard would have looked out of place in the Chelsea Mourinho era team never mind a World XI.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

Marky wrote:Actually, as far as England defenders go, John Terry has to go down as world class.

Stop Wumming Marky.

If that Kumquat is world class Rio is Galaxy Universe class.

Hardly wumming. Rio has always been a donkey, JT has always been a leader, maybe less so for England than for Chelsea, and like Rio his form has dropped in the last couple of years, but when they were England's CB partnership, I always rated Terry over Ferdinand.

Marky wrote:Changing the subject slightly, can you name an English player, past or present, who'd get into the current Barcelona team?

Paul Scholes, Rio Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Seaman, Hart, Campbell top of my head.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

Marky wrote:Changing the subject slightly, can you name an English player, past or present, who'd get into the current Barcelona team?

Paul Scholes, Rio Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Seaman, Hart, Campbell top of my head.

So you're saying;
Scholes > Xavi
Ferdinand/Campbell > Puyol/Pique
Cole > Alba
Seaman/Hart > Valdes (I'd agree here)

To me he is abit of a Le Tissier where he didn;t have the bottle to move to a bigger side because he was comfortable at where he was. If Liverpool competed for the title fair enough but at best they were at 4th ranked team and Gerrard was happy to feed into the cowpat of being a world class great legend player at Pool because he knew his legacy at say Chelsea would get destroyed and show him up for the player he is not the world class some people claim him to be.

Big fish little pond.
Barry & Milner were big fishes at that little pond Aston Villa, not so big now are they.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:I think he used to be world class.

I define world class as someone who could be picked in a world XI and not look out of place. Gerrard from 2004-2009 would qualify for me, and many others I am sure.

Gerrard would have looked out of place in the Chelsea Mourinho era team never mind a World XI.

Jose Mourinho obviously didn't think so.

He's also been picked in numerous 'world XI's', along with individual recognition globally:

Ballon d'Or Bronze Award (1): 2005
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2005
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2005
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament (1): 2012
UEFA Team of the Year (3): 2005, 2006, 2007
FIFA/FIFPro World XI (3): 2007, 2008, 2009

And I found this from the great Zidane: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/mar/15/steven-gerrard-champions-league-best-player-zinedine-zidane

Marky wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

Marky wrote:Actually, as far as England defenders go, John Terry has to go down as world class.

Stop Wumming Marky.

If that Kumquat is world class Rio is Galaxy Universe class.

Hardly wumming. Rio has always been a donkey, JT has always been a leader, maybe less so for England than for Chelsea, and like Rio his form has dropped in the last couple of years, but when they were England's CB partnership, I always rated Terry over Ferdinand.

4/10 wum effort ask Afro and Hero on wumming tips.

Whenever Rio has been playing he has outperformed Terry and don't go there both at thier peaks Rio would destroy Terry.

Rio is the best English CB i have seen. Great faceplant too.

Marky wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

Marky wrote:Changing the subject slightly, can you name an English player, past or present, who'd get into the current Barcelona team?

Paul Scholes, Rio Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Seaman, Hart, Campbell top of my head.

So you're saying;
Scholes > Xavi
Ferdinand/Campbell > Puyol/Pique
Cole > Alba
Seaman/Hart > Valdes (I'd agree here)

Rio and Cole when they were at thier peak yes I would have them over Pique/Puyol and Alba. Scholes is not a worse player now then he was 10 years ago, he has changed his game thats what so great about the guy he can adapt and change. You can't say Scholes of 10 years ago is better then the current one as they are different players.

If you were putting a team from scratch then yes I'd take Scholes over Xavi anyday but this Barca team is suited for Xavi and is perfected for his style. Everyone getting a hard on over Xavi not long ago he used to be Decos bitch and warm the bench for him. Yeah everyone forgets that. Well I'm the guy who exposes these frauds and brings out thier school year picture to show the world. HAHAHA Xavi is good now but give me Paul Scholes over anyone any day.

UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament (1): 2012

that one is great

Scholes has been known a lot longer than Xavi. As Viva has reminded you. You all knew Scholes 10 years ago but how many knew Xavi.

When Xavi was trying to break into the Barca team Scholes was busy winning a Treble
There is a 5 year age gap between them though.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Azzy no English player is world class except Paul Scholes.

Ashley Cole is world class in my books.

Lampard over Gerrard as well, lamps has evolved his role through time. Gerrard plays too many Hollywood balls for my liking.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

Marky wrote:Actually, as far as England defenders go, John Terry has to go down as world class.

Stop Wumming Marky.

If that Kumquat is world class Rio is Galaxy Universe class.

Oh-oh, don't let Rio see that 'chocolate' metaphor, he might have a tizzy and form his own players union

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

Marky wrote:Actually, as far as England defenders go, John Terry has to go down as world class.

Stop Wumming Marky.

If that Kumquat is world class Rio is Galaxy Universe class.

Oh-oh, don't let Rio see that 'chocolate' metaphor, he might have a tizzy and form his own players union

Cole is def world class.

Rio and Terry can both have claims (Terry was immense under Mourinho).

Rooney's had his spells.

Gerrard>>Lampard for me, never really rated Lampard that highly

Nicky Butt was better than Gerrard

I love all the Utd fans trying to slate Gerrard

Take the tinted glasses off

Slate Gerrard
Big up Carrick

ABU!

Nicky Butt's dad was better than Nicky Butt.

To summarise:

United fans think Rio is/was better than Terry, that Scholes is the supreme overlord of the midfield world, that Rooney is an all-round great player, and that Gerrard is/was neither great nor a leader.

This is the same Rio that is trying to ruin the anti-racism efforts in our game, and who once led the England players to the edge of a strike prior to a huge game.

The same Gerrard that has been the only decent England player for the last 18months, despite not playing for the badge/team or being good enough anymore.

And then there's Carrick, who is so utterly inept it defies all logic.

No other fan base is so stubborn or defensive. I think they're a bit upset about being the small club in Manchester now.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

Why not? Because you're a United fan?

Nope.
To know your are banned and will be missing the final if you get there, to lead your team from 2-0 down, cover every blade of grass on that pitch, Roy Keane played for the badge & the team. Gerrard plays for the name on the back of his shirt.

That bit in bold is clearly the biggest load of cowpat I have ever read in this section. And I read Bull's tactics as well

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Well Kewell got injured early on in the game, Smicer did play his part with the long range goal. Maybe Liverpool would have lost 3-0 or maybe someone else would have taken the game by the neck and got them back into it.

Its Football anything can happen, they said the same about United when Keane, Schmichael, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Scholes etc left the team.

It's all conjecture though. Looking at the facts, Gerrard did it. He didn't do it only once either, he has rescued Liverpool so many times that it can't be luck. He has the 'clutch' gene, and he comes up big when his team need him most.

I'm not asking you to love Gerrard, but maybe to take of the blinkers and give him a little credit.

TOM BRADY = THE DEFINITION OF CLUTCH GENE

Got nothing to do with who Gerrard plays for, I rate Lampard highly a better Footballer then Gerrard. He was the best English from 2003-2009.

Azzy what has Rio done to smear the anti-racism campaign?

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Azzy what has Rio done to smear the anti-racism campaign?

I never said smear. And you know about the t-shirt episode and the threat of a black players union, so why make me spell it out? What he's doing is setting up a situation where black and ethnic minority players get preferential treatment. Racism in the game isn't anywhere near as bad as abroad, yet it's only here that it becomes headline news.

If Rio wants equality, then he should support the union for ALL footballers - the PFA - and support the anti-racism group, Kick it Out. Any other course of action irreparably damages his cause. If he's so concerned, why not become Head of Kick it Out? Chairman of the PFA? If he feels so strongly, why hasn't he ever, in the course of his long and fabled career, done anything about it? Apart from now, where he's openly defying the instructions of his manager and bitching on twitter. He's an embarrassment to his cause.

Azzy, your one to talk. You bough up Rooneys temperament. hasnt picked up a yellow so far this season and last season picked up 2 in all competitions.
He worked well to calm it down.

Azzy what has Rio done to smear the anti-racism campaign?

call Cashley a Choc Ice? Not wear the Kick it Out Tshirt etc

Anyone interested in buying any of my players for cash I'm open for business

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Azzy what has Rio done to smear the anti-racism campaign?

I never said smear. And you know about the t-shirt episode and the threat of a black players union, so why make me spell it out? What he's doing is setting up a situation where black and ethnic minority players get preferential treatment. Racism in the game isn't anywhere near as bad as abroad, yet it's only here that it becomes headline news.

If Rio wants equality, then he should support the union for ALL footballers - the PFA - and support the anti-racism group, Kick it Out. Any other course of action irreparably damages his cause. If he's so concerned, why not become Head of Kick it Out? Chairman of the PFA? If he feels so strongly, why hasn't he ever, in the course of his long and fabled career, done anything about it? Apart from now, where he's openly defying the instructions of his manager and bitching on twitter. He's an embarrassment to his cause.

He didn't wear the T-Shirt because he felt the cause does not truely represent what it claims to, when players are guilty of racism the FA hand worthless fines and bans why do they not do anything they are supposed to be baacking the cause. An where is this Black Union coming from? Daily Mail, if you actually read what you say Rio tweets he came out and said there is no Black Union its made up. So before you have a go find the facts Azzy.

Rio Ferdinand is human too Azzy, and like many people me included and I'm sure yourself don't give a crap about most things unless it happens to you or someone close to you, a friend of mine is all into the Cancer support stuff because he knows someone who suffers from it but before that didn't give two hoots about cancer.

Olly wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Well Kewell got injured early on in the game, Smicer did play his part with the long range goal. Maybe Liverpool would have lost 3-0 or maybe someone else would have taken the game by the neck and got them back into it.

Its Football anything can happen, they said the same about United when Keane, Schmichael, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Scholes etc left the team.

It's all conjecture though. Looking at the facts, Gerrard did it. He didn't do it only once either, he has rescued Liverpool so many times that it can't be luck. He has the 'clutch' gene, and he comes up big when his team need him most.

I'm not asking you to love Gerrard, but maybe to take of the blinkers and give him a little credit.

TOM BRADY = THE DEFINITION OF CLUTCH GENE

Eli >Brady in the clutch.

If im correct:
Kick It Out campaign doesnt hand out the bans/fines etc. They have no power in when it comes to that. So why decide not to support Kick It Out? its not their fault bans/fines are poopie ones.
They are the leading organisation for anti-racism in football. are they not? They should have all players support.

The FA back the campaign, they are the ones that tell everyone to follow it. So when they give out the most Poopie fines ever why should a player support the campaign.

Rio has every right to turn his back on it, today they are called black Kumquat tomorrow they'll be getting lynched with Azzy leading the pack with a pitchfork, tophat, glasseye and a cigar.

An The F.A fund the campaign.

So when they give out the most Poopie fines ever why should a player support the campaign.

The FA & Kick It Out are separate organisations. OK, FA may say to people/player they need to back the campaign but why should Kick It Out be questioned for the FA inability when they have no control over it?

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

So when they give out the most Poopie fines ever why should a player support the campaign.

The FA & Kick It Out are separate organisations. OK, FA may say to people/player they need to back the campaign but why should Kick It Out be questioned for the FA inability when they have no control over it?

FA are funding them I know they are two organisations but they should have the balls to say to FA look take responsbility but they don't because the fat cats are the top of the kick it out racism campaign will lose thier £100,000+ jobs. Truth is nobody gives a Poopie about racism if it will affect them, everyone gives it the large but they will not put themselves forward. Its like that Saville case when big radio show presenters didn't come forweard because it could potentially ruin thier career. This is the world we live in.

Too many bullshitters are pretend fake do gooders, the world needs more Roy Keane type of people.

I see what you mean Viva. If the only way the organisations are linked is through funding IMO Kick it Out shouldnt be boycotted for something they have no control over.

sodhat wrote:

Olly wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Well Kewell got injured early on in the game, Smicer did play his part with the long range goal. Maybe Liverpool would have lost 3-0 or maybe someone else would have taken the game by the neck and got them back into it.

Its Football anything can happen, they said the same about United when Keane, Schmichael, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Scholes etc left the team.

It's all conjecture though. Looking at the facts, Gerrard did it. He didn't do it only once either, he has rescued Liverpool so many times that it can't be luck. He has the 'clutch' gene, and he comes up big when his team need him most.

I'm not asking you to love Gerrard, but maybe to take of the blinkers and give him a little credit.

TOM BRADY = THE DEFINITION OF CLUTCH GENE

Eli >Brady in the clutch.

Well now yes. But have you seen a more clutch drive than Brady's in Super Bowl 36 against The Greatest show on turf? That was clutch gene and some.

Dont say Eli in 2007 was clutch. That was just chuck it up in the air and hope. Then it got stuck on his helmet. Grrrrrr

I hate it when I get stuff stuck on my helmet

I think much of the 'clutch' stuff is luck, and once you are seen as clutch or not clutch it's almost impossible to reverse the beliefs.

I understand where you're coming from too Zidane

It's easy for us to say this and that, if my brother and collegeue were victims of racism I don't know if I would be able to support the cause that is supposed to be spreading the awareness.

I haven't seen any pressure by the kick it on the FA nothing like that, all I've seen is sitting on the fence cowpat answers, something you'd expect a politican to come out with not someone who is supposed to be getting rid of racism.

Kick it Out has like 6 employees iirc and an annual budget equivalent to 2 weeks of Terry's salary

It's easy for us to say this and that, if my brother and collegeue were victims of racism I don't know if I would be able to support the cause that is supposed to be spreading the awareness.

Ive been a victim of racism before in Uni. In fairness my uni were great about it and did a lot to raise awareness and stomp it out.

Kick it Out has like 6 employees iirc and an annual budget equivalent to 2 weeks of Terry's salary

That I believe

Russell Martin is in Ultimate Team of the week!!!!

The Norfolk Cafu, the Norfolk Cafu! Oh Russell Martin, the Norfolk Cafu!! #legend #myfavouriteplayer

Who else is in there Olly?

sodhat wrote:I hate it when I get stuff stuck on my helmet

.

Euphemism?

Its not on the WebApp yet but apparently this is it:

GK: Jean Francois Gillet, Torino - 79>80
CB: Fabricio Coloccini, Newcastle United - 81>82
CB: Benedikt Höwedes, FC Schalke 04 - 81>82
CB: Ballesteros, Levante UD - 76>77
CDM: Mark Noble, West Ham United - 74>74
RM: Thomas Müller, Bayern München - 84>85
CM: Kevin Strootman, PSV - 78>79
CM: Cesc Fàbregas, FC Barcelona - 87>88
CF: Wayne Rooney, Manchester United - 89>90
CF: Lionel Messi, FC Barcelona - 94>95
ST: Pablo Osvaldo, Roma - 78>79

SUBS

GK: Felipe, Flamengo - 78>79
RB: Russell Martin, Norwich City - 72>73
LM: Brad Evans, Seattle Sounders - 65>69
CM: Etienne Didot, Toulouse FC - 75>77
RM: Claudio Beauvue, LB Châteauroux - 64>64
ST: Anthony Le Tallec, Valenciennes FC - 71>73
ST: Tom Craddock, Oxford United - 56>64

Noble has switched from CM to CDM
Muller has switched from CAM to RM
Evans has switched from CM to LM