England in India

First topic message reminder :

England main side is in India from Nov 2012 thru end of Jan 2013.
The schedule below....and interestingly Eng Performance Side ( meaning A side?) will also be in India overlapping with the senior sides tour.....
I believe Netherland will also be playing the Eng Performance side in 3 games at Poona club.......why at Poona club ?

Tue Oct 30 - Thu Nov 1
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Brabourne Stadium, Mumbai

Sat Nov 3 - Mon Nov 5
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Bandra Kurla Complex, Mumbai

Thu Nov 8 - Sun Nov 11
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Sardar Patel Stadium B Ground, Motera, Ahmedabad

Thu Nov 15 - Mon Nov 19
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 1st Test - India v England
Sardar Patel Stadium, Motera, Ahmedabad

Fri Nov 23 - Tue Nov 27
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 2nd Test - India v England
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Wed Dec 5 - Sun Dec 9
09:00 local | 03:30 GMT
04:30 CET 3rd Test - India v England
Eden Gardens, Kolkata

Thu Dec 13 - Mon Dec 17
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 4th Test - India v England
Vidarbha Cricket Association Stadium, Jamtha, Nagpur

Thu Dec 20
20:00 local | 14:30 GMT
15:30 CET 1st T20I - India v England
Subrata Roy Sahara Stadium, Pune

Sat Dec 22
20:00 local | 14:30 GMT
15:30 CET 2nd T20I - India v England
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Sun Jan 6 TBC v England XI
Feroz Shah Kotla, DelhiDelhi

Tue Jan 8 TBC v England XI
Harbax Singh Stadium, DelhiDelhi

Fri Jan 11
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 1st ODI - India v England
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot

Tue Jan 15
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 2nd ODI - India v England
Nehru Stadium, Kochi

Sat Jan 19
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 3rd ODI - India v England
HEC International Cricket Stadium Complex, Ranchi

Wed Jan 23
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 4th ODI - India v England
Himachal Pradesh Cricket Association Stadium, Dharamsala

Sun Jan 27
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 5th ODI - India v England
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali, Chandigarh

Cook, Compton, Trott, Bell, KP, Patel, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann and Anderson.

That'll probably be the team for the First Test but there are still 2 more 3 day games after this one so hopefully Root, Onions and Panesar will all get a go. Finn will probably come in for the second Test owing to his injury.

Patel really suprises me at times. For the most i dont hink that he is up to the big tasks and then he has inning's like these. Well done him and well done Cook

eirebilly wrote:Patel really suprises me at times. For the most i dont hink that he is up to the big tasks and then he has inning's like these. Well done him and well done Cook

Out of. The ashes the Phoenix rise again. What's up Billy?

Been busy Biltong so have not had much time to socialise here

Hope all is good with you and yours

we must remeber that there was no frontline spinner in this attack..

Part time Raina got through 16 overs!

A mixed day for England in the office. Compton failed and more worryingly Ian Bell. Kevin Pietersen failed to build on a start. Cook as expected, scored runs and good to see Jonathan Trott also back among the runs, although his newfound habit of getting out after scoring a 50 should concern him a touch, as he's the type of player who would usually go on to a big one.
Samit Patel's runs here are very important. He has very strongly come into the frame for that additional batting all-rounder slot with this performance. Bairstow and Morgan might get chances in the upcoming couple of warm ups and if they really don't take it, Samit has to be playing that first test.
Finn's loss, if it happens, will be huge I believe. Bresnan could be effective in sub-continent conditions, but for that he has to be at his very best and his pace has to be up. Good he's among the wickets in this match, would do some good to his confidence.

Delighted to see Samosa Patel in the runs. I'm a big fan (see 11 players to breakthrough post) and have a feeling he might be someone who bats better in tests than county cricket much like Gower.

Unlike most I also rate his bowling, he's got a lot of guile and can really turn the ball.

I'd like to see the coaching staff give him a bit more confidence in himself but fear under strict disciplinarians such as Flower it's unlikely to happen.

Agree there on Patel, certainly underrated, particularly his spin playing capabilities.

Spin playing capabilities that have led him to a FC batting average of 39...

I think we're a bit desperate if we start believing we're so bad against spin that we need to pick whoever plays spin well, even if he's not that good...

Shelsey Morgan's FC average isn't that great either is it? Root too, hasn't been averaging 50+ in FC cricket as yet.

True. I am not a fan of the selection of either.

I'd have had Bairstow and Taylor as my options for number six...

england had some good luck all at the hands saha:

wicketkeeper Wriddhiman Saha's poor form meant they will have to endure another day in the heat.

Saha missed three opportunities to break the Cook-Patel stand. The first one came when Patel was on 29, with England XI on 182 for 4. He nicked one down the leg side off Parvinder Awana but the ball slipped out of the diving Saha's hands. In the third session, Yuvraj managed to draw Cook, on 88 with his team on 226, forward and induce an edge but Saha dropped it. And when Yuvraj drew another edge, this time Patel trying to cut on 61, Saha failed to collect yet again.

Hibbz wrote:Delighted to see Samosa Patel in the runs. I'm a big fan (see 11 players to breakthrough post) and have a feeling he might be someone who bats better in tests than county cricket much like Gower.

Unlike most I also rate his bowling, he's got a lot of guile and can really turn the ball.

I'd like to see the coaching staff give him a bit more confidence in himself but fear under strict disciplinarians such as Flower it's unlikely to happen.

I also quite like Patel and think he gets a harsher press than he deserves. However, I wouldn't have thought to liken his batting to Gower's.

Incidentally, I do think that any continuing references to his weight are completely unnecessary.

His fitness was an issue almost four years ago now, when he was told to go away and sort it out. Eventually he managed to do so. Now he has done can we forget about it, please?

An average of 39 isn't terrible for someone who plays half of his matches at Trent Bridge. And in Division 1. Morgan has done far worse in Division 2, mind you and this year, when he played in Division 1, averaged 18. A very poor FC player, I'd say.
Bairstow ahead of Patel in India? Don't make me laugh.
Agreed on Taylor but he is not in the squad, neither is Hildreth, who too can play spin. Of course, there is the Shah too. But again, not picked.

Bell in the SC against a half decent spinner is a serious worry though. Far bigger than Patel.

Shelsey93 wrote:Incidentally, I do think that any continuing references to his weight are completely unnecessary.

His fitness was an issue almost four years ago now, when he was told to go away and sort it out. Eventually he managed to do so. Now he has done can we forget about it, please?

Like heck he has, he's still a billy bunter but the powers that be just seem to have accepted it. He's clearly not bothered about it (even though it must however slight hinder his performance) so I shall continue to make jibes about it because it amuses me. He and anyone else who cares are more than welcome to poke fun at my many foibles if it likewise amuses them.

England should be happpy with the workout their batsmen got.

Much as these games are meant to be practise only.......to me a second objective is to see the weakest links emerging from these.

For India...their cream of seam bowling resources did not deliver....otehr than the marginal success of Dinda.

For England.....on a pitch that wasn't assiting spin and with 4 dropped catches.....and with no regular spinners.....they handed 5 wickets to Yuvraj.

How would they fare when the pitch does turn and bounce and Ashwin Ojha are added to the attack.

I hope England get better in 2 more games they have from here....and the 3rd practise game is a 4 day game

England will be pleased that Prior and Bresnan have scored runs as well. Anderson and Bresnan will also bowl 8-15 more overs and get some more rythm. The main concerns are now Bell and Compton.

Patel has probably given himself the lead for the number 6 slot come the test series, although I do wonder like Shelsey whether England and ex-England fans aren't being amazingly knee-jerky about Bairstow - and for their latest knee-jerk basing themselves on his performances in T20 cricket, which is hardly like test cricket. That's not to say I think he's a good player of spin, he obviously has technical issues, but he's hard working, and improves quickly, so there's no reason to suggest he won't work them out over time.

Anyway it's clear that England see Patel as a "horses for courses" selection on the subcontinent. I'm not sure I agree, but I can see the merits. Unlike Shelsey I'm not fussed about his first class record. I disagree doubly with Hibbz - first of all he has improved his fitness markedly (if not necessarily visibly, but he is far quicker accross the ground and runs a lot better between the wickets than he did a few years back; in fact he was dropped not so much for poor levels of fitness but for failing to work in any way on them, since then he has and is now back in the team); secondly to suggest that being unfit in today's modern game is only a "slight" hindrance is IMO far from the mark.

For India, the seam bowling stocks are still worryingly fit, all the more so with Zaheer surely not far off retirement. Although this pitch is scarcely the green top that people were touting it to be. Yuvraj's 5-for is an obvious plus, but his failure in the second innings has somewhat opened up the door to Raina.

That concludes England's best day so far - pretty much everything they'd have wanted: Patel getting to his ton, runs for Prior and Bresnan and a small work-out for all the bowlers who were seemingly in good shape.

The major concern from an England perspective is Bell. Compton scoring a duck - well that happens to openers, and he'll surely get another chance in the next game. But Bell's lack of runs in the sub-continent is fast becoming a real issue. He'll be desperate to score some in the next warm-up.

Obviously Finn being injured is another blow, but Bresnan will do a decent job as a replacement.

Mike Selig wrote:
... Compton scoring a duck - well that happens to openers, and he'll surely get another chance in the next game.

Mike - I would guess Compton will get another chance in the next game, presumably with Root as his opening partner. Edging closer to a play off between the two ...

PS Enjoyed your earlier reference to ''England and ex-England fans''.

I suppose with England wanting competitive 11 a side matches its going to be hard to try everyone out. Ideally you want Cook, Trott, Pietersen and Bell to play all the matches as they will all presumably play the first Test.

So that leaves 2 slots to try the other 4 out and if you have a Compton situation that as been can said can happen what do you do? Drop Cook to 3 where he wont bat in the Tests and open with Compton and Root. Or try Root in place of Compton - what if Root then gets a low score.

Certainly not easy but I think the 11 a side games are the right approach.

11-a-side is the right approach.

With three warm-up games I would usually like to:

- Play as close to my intended XI as possible in the first game
- Give the other players a go in the second game
- Give anyone I still need to decide on, my first choice batsmen, spinner and wicket-keeper a game in the final match. Rest any bowlers I have fitness concerns about

Here this would probably have meant for me:

1st Game: Cook, Compton, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Bairstow, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Finn
2nd Game: Cook, Compton, Root, Bell, Morgan, Bairstow, Patel, Bresnan, Broad, Onions, Panesar
3rd Game: Cook, Compton/ Root, Trott, Bell, Pietersen, Morgan/ Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Swann, Anderson, Onions

Difficult and needs to be balanced with winning...

I forgot about Morgan! So that's 5 into 2, or not play one of the other four as your options show. Its difficult, Cook, Trott, Bell and Pietersen have not played FC cricket for a while, and not in similar conditions since the SL Tests in March. You'd love to give them all 3 matches and even then that might only be 3 innings each.

I would certainly give Root and Bairstow a chance in the next match, so probably Trott and Patel to miss out. Bell needs runs so stays in, and Cook needs captaincy experience with this attack so they have to play. Dropping Compton will cause more problems than it solves and he deserves another go - if England felt at the start of the tour that he was the better option then one failure shouldn't change that. Pietersen vs Morgan/Patel is a tough one, I'd be tempted to not change the whole line-up and 23 isn't really enough runs for my liking so KP stays in. Prior will probably have to play - it would be foolish to dump the gloves on Bairstow if England still think he's a potential number 6. He's unlikely to keep in the tests unless there's an injury to Prior on the morning of a match. Prior didn't play in the World T20 so has had a decent break, he can probably keep in all 3 warm-ups.

Bowling-wise I think it's likely that Onions and Panesar will be given a game, and Broad comes back in. Anderson and Swann will probably be rested.

So we have Cook, Compton, Root, Bell, Pietersen, Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Onions, Panesar.

3rd warm-up match I'd be looking to play my test XI; if anything still undecided then pick both guys fighting for a slot.

Mike Selig wrote:

3rd warm-up match I'd be looking to play my test XI; if anything still undecided then pick both guys fighting for a slot.

Mike - I don't disagree with that but it highlights possible difficulties for some of the squad players if brought in towards the end of such a condensed series. There are no practice games once the series gets under way. Mighty tricky for someone like Root to come in for, say, the last Test with perhaps just one practice game under his belt a month earlier. Makes the job of selection harder too.

guildfordbat wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:

3rd warm-up match I'd be looking to play my test XI; if anything still undecided then pick both guys fighting for a slot.

Mike - I don't disagree with that but it highlights possible difficulties for some of the squad players if brought in towards the end of such a condensed series. There are no practice games once the series gets under way. Mighty tricky for someone like Root to come in for, say, the last Test with perhaps just one practice game under his belt a month earlier. Makes the job of selection harder too.

Yes I realise that's the risk you take. The simplistic view is that you plan for the best. If the worst happens then you're probably not in a position where Root having had the extra warm-up match a long time before the test anyway makes that much difference.

Yuvraj's 5 wickets makes him the very clear frontrunner for that number 6 slot. Good to see Rahane among the runs, but think it has come one innings too late and perhaps a not out would have helpd a bit more. Anyways he has his chances with the Ranji matches, and so does Yuvraj and Raina. Among Yuvraj, Rahane, Tiwary and Raina, I would have Raina as the absolute last choice, and it will stay the same even if he scores 500 in his next Ranji innings.
Particularly like Yuvraj's new avatar as a usefull batting all-rounder, and not a batsman who could bowl a bit. Makes his case that much more stronger, particularly in sub-continent conditions. And all the more reasons for good turning bouncy tracks.

From an Indian POV:

If Finn is out......will go Eng's chances of getting into match winning positions.

for the flat for seamer pitches that will be served in tests...will render Anderson, Broad and god forboid should they choose Bresnan toothless.
Swann can be a good first support bowler...Anderson could be the 2nd.....if there is a central strike bowler which I see only Finn ...as the only one.
I have seen Onions sometime back, but have forgotten what his bowling is like.

Hope Finn gets fully fit and roaring.....and Eng's gotta find a way of getting Monty into the side.

Worst Eng could do is have an "attackl" made of bresnan, Broad and Patel who was dropped 3 times .in his 100.....makes his way in as the notional 2nd spinner.

further from an Indian POV:

I second msp...don't want to see Raina even in the squad of 15.
Already Dhoni is making noises in the media sowing seeds of doubt on Yuvraj's fitness.......
We knew he had a liking for Raina....and that's why Raina was nicknamed "Bhabhi" and hence he called "bhai".

But throwing these seeds of doubt in the media is unethical.

I hope the new selection comittee....puts Tiwary as the additional reserve in the squad fo 15...and Raina nowhere close to a test spot

These first round Ranji matches are going to be very important for those squad positions. a big hundred from Ajinkya Rahane or Manoj Tiwary could certainly give their case that much more weight. If he stays fit, Yuvraj for me, has already made it to the squad. Hope Yuvraj, Rahane and Tiwary would outperform Raina in the upcoming Ranji matches before the team selection.

UP vs. Delhi is a big game with a lot of big guns tomorrow and I don't think Raina can play...nor can any of the India-A squad guys can play the first round Ranji games..... given that he finished in Mumbai today....
and the day first round Ranji games finish on 5th Nov...is the date when team for T1 will be declared.
so the squad of 15 is sealed as following:

1) Sehwag
2) Gambhir
3) Pujara
4) Tendulkar
5) Kohli
6) Yuvraj
7) Dhoni*+
8) Ashwin
9) Zaheer
10) Ojha
11) Yadav

12) Ishant most likely or Dinda
13) Reserve spinner probably Bhajji
14) Rahane most likely or Mukund as reserve openers
15) Tiwary

Will they go for a 15 or 14 member squad as it is a home game? I will be disappointed if Harbhajan is selected as the reserve spinner. Experience and all that and a not bad performance in county cricket could have been a half decent justification for a T-20I WC call up, but he has done nothing, absolutely nothing to earn a test recall. Murali Kartik would be a fra fairer call. If Yuvraj is playing, there is no need for another reserve spinner anyways, particularly if it is going to be Harbhajan.
Cricinfo report seems to be suggesting that the A team players might be available for their sides for the first round Ranji match.

you are right it might be a 14 man squad....and in that case second spinner will be the one to drop out.

Media is indeed reporting Raina as the capt of UP for the game tommorow

Sachin Tendulkar has started his warming up process for the England test series in style, cracking 137 of 136 balls on his FC return for Mumbai in 3 years!.
India seamer Umesh Yadav also had a fine start, picking 5 wickets while bowling Haryana out for 55.

A century for Rahane too... Murali Kartik is the only bowler of any note in the Railways attack though...

Seems to me England will be pretty satisfied with that for a first warm up game.
Four of the possible bowling candidates got a good work out , two batsmen made hundreds and two others fifties , and with two more matches to go the opportunities exist to give those who didn't play , or failed to shine , a chance before the Tests.
It is a pity that Finn got injured , but the fact that the other bowlers had plenty of work allows England to rest (probably Anderson and Swann ) to let Broad Onions and Panesar all have a run out in the second match. Would make sense to let Root and Compton open in this , either Cook or Trott can rest , while KP and Bell need another hit and Bairstow , who is surely inked in to replace Bell when he takes his leave later on , must join them. It is possible they may not fit Morgan in ? (I agree with Mike you would probably look to play your preferred Test XI in the third match) which would be a little rough on him , but in truth Morgan probably would not have been on the tour at all if Pietersen had been available from the off...seems to me he was picked to add some experience to the otherwise very raw Root/Compton/Bairstow line up , rather less needed now , though they could hardly de-select him...
Reckon Patel has put down a fairly solid marker. Still think the jury is out on him at this level , but there are certainly attractions to having him in the team as one of seven batsmen, as his bowling , while unlikely to be devastating, would help to provide some useful back up to Swann and whatever three pacemen make up the attack. I would regret the lack of Bairstow , but as I say he will surely get his chance later in place of Bell.

Would be nice if England can win the toss so they can ensure two innings next
match...

Cook, Prior, Swann rested for theb game tomorrow against Mumbai-A.

Broad captains, Root comes in and Bairstow will keep wkts, Onions in for Finn...will they play Monty somehow

and Eng should win easily and handsomely.....
this is after all is an encounter between a first class side minus their top 15 ( who are playing Ranji). minus an recognized spinners and minus any part time spin bowlers.........VERSUS world's number one test side until one test match back

remeber its only a 3 day game mate.

Yes, and sensibly a couple of 'ringers' have been brought into bolster Mumbai A to ensure it isn't a joke match.

CF wrote:remeber its only a 3 day game mate.

that's about the time in whihc Aus and Eng were beating India in some test matches in 2011,
amd some games in UAE also finished in about that time.

England should set themselves a morale boosting win as an objective

England has had a horrer first session against a 3rd rate Mumbai A side that has some additional batting cover through Pujara and Dhawan but nothing in the bowling department. 66-4 in the first session. Yet another sub-continental failure for Ian Bell. Compton failed again. Root and Trott couldn't carry on from the good starts they managed. Chance for Bairstow and Morgan to impress.
Good to see Onions and Panesar getting some game time.

waingankar with all of his 25 first class wkts in 11 games continues his fairy tale against England......following the 5-fer in 2008...he has 2 for the day with his gentle medium bolwing..

and surja yadav, Javed khan also get wickets with even gentler medium pace.

match ain't been shown anywhere....would be intereting to see what demons Eng have invente for themselves here.....against a side that has no spinners

bairstow and morgan gare batting in mid 40s and string together a recovery of sorts

I see Morgan and Bairstow have taken the score to 209/4 at tea so perhaps talk of demons etc is a little premature .
However England won't be overjoyed at second failures for both Compton and Bell. Hope both can get some time at the crease in the second innings , where Root will also have a chance to push his claim - his modest score today will at least put him in contention with Compton.
Suppose the other possibility , though it isn't what was planned , I imagine , with the way the two new prospective openers are being treated , is for a Cook/Trott opening pairing , allowing Bairstow or Morgan into the middle order...
Early yet.

Compton and Bell failing again, albeit against seam for the latter this time, is surely a real worry. Trott's in good rythm, but it seems all the candidates for the number 6 spot are making runs. Patel has a chance to impress now.

The first thing England did right was win the toss, ensuring they should get two chances to bat.

Personally I wouldn't have played Morgan in this game, as I don't think he's seriously in the running for a test spot. I would have liked Cook to get as much practice as possible at captaining the side in longer formats.

Bairstow reaches his hundred to stake his claim for a test spot. Interesting decision the selectors will have to make. With neither Root nor Compton impressing, could Bairstow and Patel both make the XI?

In true England-fan style, Bairstow is now the best thing since the Cornish pasty, must play in all forms of the game all over the world, be made captain, keep (Prior only made 50odd in the last game so is obviously rubbish), etc...

Seriously. Perhaps this will stop people judging aspects of his game based on a couple of matches. Doubt it though...

As to whether Trott can be moved up to open to allow both Bairstow and Patel to play, not sure I really like the balance of the side with Bairstow at 5 and Patel at 6. Then again, Bell against spin is a worry, and he may enjoy batting at 3 more.

See how the second innings goes.

I now expect a load of people to suggest Bell should be dropped and Patel and Bairstow both play, which is silly.

This is a catch 22 game.....against a club quality medium to gentle medium bowling....where failures stand exaggerated and runs scored count for little

at the end of first session....4 down for 60 odd England had given enough to a bunch of boys who may not play much FC cricket....but punched above their weight for a full session...... and will have stories to tell their families and children.

acoording to Mike selvey's tweets watchin live in Mumbai...... in 2nd and 3rd session the quality of bowling deterioated to it's level and the middle order of enagland smashed the bolwing around duly.

I'm not too worried about Bell personally... he's a top player who can play spin, and will surely come good in Asia sometime soon.

What to do with the openers? Hope they get a second innings here probably.