England in India

First topic message reminder :

England main side is in India from Nov 2012 thru end of Jan 2013.
The schedule below....and interestingly Eng Performance Side ( meaning A side?) will also be in India overlapping with the senior sides tour.....
I believe Netherland will also be playing the Eng Performance side in 3 games at Poona club.......why at Poona club ?

Tue Oct 30 - Thu Nov 1
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Brabourne Stadium, Mumbai

Sat Nov 3 - Mon Nov 5
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Bandra Kurla Complex, Mumbai

Thu Nov 8 - Sun Nov 11
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Sardar Patel Stadium B Ground, Motera, Ahmedabad

Thu Nov 15 - Mon Nov 19
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 1st Test - India v England
Sardar Patel Stadium, Motera, Ahmedabad

Fri Nov 23 - Tue Nov 27
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 2nd Test - India v England
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Wed Dec 5 - Sun Dec 9
09:00 local | 03:30 GMT
04:30 CET 3rd Test - India v England
Eden Gardens, Kolkata

Thu Dec 13 - Mon Dec 17
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 4th Test - India v England
Vidarbha Cricket Association Stadium, Jamtha, Nagpur

Thu Dec 20
20:00 local | 14:30 GMT
15:30 CET 1st T20I - India v England
Subrata Roy Sahara Stadium, Pune

Sat Dec 22
20:00 local | 14:30 GMT
15:30 CET 2nd T20I - India v England
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Sun Jan 6 TBC v England XI
Feroz Shah Kotla, DelhiDelhi

Tue Jan 8 TBC v England XI
Harbax Singh Stadium, DelhiDelhi

Fri Jan 11
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 1st ODI - India v England
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot

Tue Jan 15
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 2nd ODI - India v England
Nehru Stadium, Kochi

Sat Jan 19
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 3rd ODI - India v England
HEC International Cricket Stadium Complex, Ranchi

Wed Jan 23
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 4th ODI - India v England
Himachal Pradesh Cricket Association Stadium, Dharamsala

Sun Jan 27
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 5th ODI - India v England
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali, Chandigarh

My England XI

Cook
Compton
Trott
KP
Bell
Samit
Prior
Bresnan
Swann
Onions
Anderson

Neither Broad nor Finn should be considered unless they play in the third warm up and prove their fitness.

Sehwag will still see him being picked, which would be absolutely ludicrous.

I see reports that Bhajji will be recalled despite being awful for Essex and indeed wicketless in the first Ranji game so far. Disappointing start from the new selectors!

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Mumbai are going along so slowly that I wonder if their main objective is to not let England bat again.

It's not an easy pitch....bounce, seam, movement, spin and 1 naturally slow scoring Trott type batter ( Pujara) bent on making it count...and the otehr guy shah punching above his weight cautiously.....
winning mental and personal battles hour by hour....session by session

A slow scoring and not an easy pitch? Yet a few statements later you quote England should have been 550 by lunch on day two.

they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...
and their opponent's bowling gentle medium pace...club class.....so they need to score big and fast...regardless of the pitch
they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...


they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...

bowling to a club side with 2 imported FC players on a difficult pitch........so slow scoring against them is OK

KP_fan wrote:they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...
and their opponent's bowling gentle medium pace...club class.....so they need to score big and fast...regardless of the pitch
they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...


they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...

bowling to a club side with 2 imported FC players on a difficult pitch........so slow scoring against them is OK

Please get real. Even a team consisting 11 Brian Lara's could not score 550 runs by lunch on day two on that pitch, even if it were against the combined universities.

But keep trying

Mumbai A have been rolled out for 286, Panesar and Patel doing the brunt of the damage. England 38/0 currently.

Root's gone after getting yet another start. Out for 24, England 45-1.
Samit Patel's consistent good performances in the 2 warm up matches should see him picked for that first test.
Hope Root will have another chance before that last test. Meanwhile the national selection committee meeting is ongoing in Mumbai. Seems like Zaheer Khan had a fitness test just before the meeting. Virender Sehwag scored a timely hundred for Delhi right before the meeting.

MS Dhoni (capt & wk), Virender Sehwag, Gautam Gambhir, Sachin Tendulkar, Virat Kohli, Yuvraj Singh, Cheteshwar Pujara, R Ashwin, Umesh Yadav, Pragyan Ojha, Ajinkya Rahane, Harbhajan Singh, Ishant Sharma, M Vijay, Zaheer Khan

Indian squad declared.....good to see no Raina.
Bhajji is back on the strngth of his 4 overs vs Eng in T20 game
the only anomaly is Vijay...Tiwary should be in his stead

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...
and their opponent's bowling gentle medium pace...club class.....so they need to score big and fast...regardless of the pitch
they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...


they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...

bowling to a club side with 2 imported FC players on a difficult pitch........so slow scoring against them is OK

Please get real. Even a team consisting 11 Brian Lara's could not score 550 runs by lunch on day two on that pitch, even if it were against the combined universities.

But keep trying

it's OK to see where diffrent people set the refrence bar diffrently....even against club sides
Steven Waugh used to set those type of Refrence bars in tests and often times achieve them

The team announced. Good news? Suresh Raina has been dropped, so is Piyush Chawla who anyways wasn't available. Zaheer Khan is fit enough and makes the squad. Yuvraj Singh has been recalled.
Bad news? Harbhajan Singh has been recalled following an average county season and a number of below average performances since then. Perhaps he's picked for his batting!. Perhaps he is picked for his 2001 performance!. Very disappointing. Then again, it exposes the lack of options. The only spinner who did really well in the first round of Ranji matches is Jarkhand's Shabas Nadeem, but in Ojha and Yuvraj, India already have 2 left-armers. Ishant Sharma is retained, meaning no squad place for the deserving Pankaj Singh who unlike Ishant has been taking wickets and no return for Praveen Kumar.
In other news, Murali Vijay is back in the squad and Ajinkya Rahane retained.
Squad.
Virender Sehwag
Gautam Gambhir
Cheteshwar Pujara
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli
Yuvraj Singh
Mahendra Singh Dhoni (captain-WK)
Ravichandran Ashwin
Zaheer Khan
Pragyan Ojha
Umesh Yadav
Ajinkya Rahane
Murali Vijay
Harbhajan Singh
Ishant Sharma.

Nick Compton (rhb) 19 77 1 0 24.67 non-striker

compton is facing McGrath and Gillespie.....and doing well to hold on to his dear life

Broad is now a doubt for the 1st Test. I'm perversely pleased this is the case to be honest. I'd rather Onions played anyway and injury was the only way he'd get in the team.

Edit: On the other hand, England's injury problems over the last few years demonstrates how over-played these players are and how important it is to manage their schedules.

liverbnz wrote:Broad is now a doubt for the 1st Test. I'm perversely pleased this is the case to be honest. I'd rather Onions played anyway and injury was the only way he'd get in the team.

Edit: On the other hand, England's injury problems over the last few years demonstrates how over-played these players are and how important it is to manage their schedules.

to me it shows the boxed mind that Flower has gotten into......... after his success with a group of boys and the power / trust bestowed in him by ECB.

He refuses to look beyond Morgan, Broad, Bresnan....even when they are clearly struggling for form and fitness.

a Mirror image of Dhoni's boxed mind after his world cup sucess.....refusing to let go of Rohit, Raina Ishan etal.

when the erstwhile strength turns into a blind spot.......the team suffers mediocrity

Broad would be a blow.

KP Fan, Compton's a defensive batsman by nature - its through patience and good mental strength that he's transformed himself from an average county player to the best county player in the country in the last two years. You feel he needs to go on and make a 70-odd + to ensure that England are confident in choosing him against Haryana, and hence in all probability for the 1st Test.

Shelsey93 wrote:Broad would be a blow.

KP Fan, Compton's a defensive batsman by nature - its through patience and good mental strength that he's transformed himself from an average county player to the best county player in the country in the last two years. You feel he needs to go on and make a 70-odd + to ensure that England are confident in choosing him against Haryana, and hence in all probability for the 1st Test.

that approach's gonna hurt him (if he plays in tests)...and anyone else who chooses the same get set, play off time, eat deliveries , wait for the bad ball....because sooner on the type of jumping spinning pitches...that will be offered in tests a ball will come from ashwin or Ojha assisted by pitch that has death written on it and will be hard for batsmen to keep out.

while there make it count should be the way to bat...like ross taylor and little Kiwi wicketkeeper showed in t2 against the Indian spinners .
Ok it will be impossible for most to bat like Taylor....but I meant the mindset.

Swann and Prior's is going to be the way to bat.

b.t.w I have stuck USD 1.5 on swann being the tops scorer for England in T1.....for an unbelievable USD 100 return

so Compton reaches 50 and in doing so has probably done enough to make the first test match, as Root couldn't capitalise on a couple of starts. Good that Bell has the chance to boost his confidence with a few runs too. The seamers situation is a worry though, expect Meaker will play the final warm-up game with Anderson rested.

Bell dropped first ball at backward short leg....in an out of the hands of the fielder

KP Fan, England have enough players who will take a more aggressive approach - KP, Bairstow/ Patel, Prior and the rest.

One of the criticisms of England in the UAE and Sri Lanka was that they had no middle game - they either took too many risks or went nowhere. That remains a concern for me, but I'm most confident they can change that with a top five of Cook, Compton, Trott, KP and Bell.

Shelsey93 wrote:KP Fan, England have enough players who will take a more aggressive approach - KP, Bairstow/ Patel, Prior and the rest.

.

Them underlined and Swann are the ones who will score bulk of the runs IMO
From what I saw of Bairstow agains spinners......he freezes....unless he has changed drastically in the last one month

Game over with England 149 for 2, Compton 65 not, and Bell 27 not.

So, who do England pick to play Haryana?

My principle is you pick your starting XI, allowing bowling doubts to rest.

I'd go Cook, Compton, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Swann, Anderson, Onions

a satisfactory day for England then, wrapping up the Mumbai innings in quick time and having a decent little bat themselves. Compton will be pleased with his knock which surely has him in pole position for the second opener spot, while Bell will be pleased to finally get a few runs under his belt.

the two main questions remaining for England are the n°6 spot: Bairstow did little wrong with a century here, but I suspect England prefer the balance Patel provides with his bowling. And obviously the seam-bowling situation: if Finn is fit he'll surely play, despite a lack of overs, I suspect Bresnan is next in line before Onions.

shelsey, I very much doubt England will pick Anderson in the final warm-up, expect Meaker instead of him.

Decent match for England. Bowling came back well and most batsmen had a good amount of time at the crease. Compton ahead of Root now as he has managed to get a start and convert it, though he has had one more chance to do so.

Still concerned what our batting will be like in the Tests vs. some proper spin bowling.

Shelsey93 wrote:So, who do England pick to play Haryana?

My principle is you pick your starting XI, allowing bowling doubts to rest.

I'd go Cook, Compton, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Swann, Anderson, Onions

Do you think Bairstow will get the nod ahead of Patel? I think he should, although I have my doubts that he will.

Logically he should - he scored runs in the last Test he played (and at that time most England fans seemed to think he should be the first name on the teamsheet...), and has scored a century in his only warm-up innings. As I've said I think a more balanced view of Bairstow is needed - he is talented and ready for Test cricket, but it still finding his way at the level.

I think England like the Patel in Asia idea. I'm not so sure. Certainly, I don't think he adds anything of importance to the bowling attack. Therefore, his good batting form is the thing on which his case must be built. But overall his batting has been pretty average in the last 12 months until these tour games. I think Bairstow's less of a risk in that sense.

Of course, if Bairstow were then to struggle with spin (as he has in the past) he could quite quickly be withdrawn as we have a fair number of alternatives.

I feel Patel is one of those players whose good performances are ignored whilst Bairstow's will always be praised. On tour so far both have a hundred, Patel against a better bowling attack and has taken some wickets. He also played well in the ODI's last time in India.

So surely being objective Patel is slightly ahead as he has more evidence of having performed in these conditions.

Not sure about Shelsey's line up. Might be a case for resting Trott and letting both Root and Compton have another hit ?
They may well let Bairstow bat at six but I would still expect Patel - who hasn't done much wrong here - to play the first Test.
I think I would go with what may have to be the Test attack , if Broad and Finn are both deemed too risky. Would only play Meaker if Anderson were really wanting a rest , which I somehow doubt.

Altogether reasonably happy with the two warm up games , except of course for the bowling injuries ! Just want Bell and KP to get a solid innings each in the four day game.

Pujara's view on the game:

Pujara eventually fell to Monty Panesar, and described England's left-arm spinner as the pick of the attack. It remains unlikely Panesar will feature in the first Test. But whoever does, Pujara is expecting them to up their game. "It won't be the same in the Test match, because I think the intensity will be higher. I think their fielding was not quite up to the mark here, but will be in the Test."

Pujara's approach was reminiscent of the discipline employed by the great Rahul Dravid, a batsman known universally as 'The Wall' and one England – and most other nations – found especially difficult to displace for many years.

The fielding is a concern. I can't quite fathom why it hasn't matched its intensity of 2010-11 in the last 12 months. Perhaps complacency, perhaps they've been worrying too much about other parts of their game (in 2010-11 you felt the batting and bowling was taking care of itself...), perhaps changes in personnel...

With Strauss out the slip cordon will likely have a new look to it too - does Compton field their? Or will it be Anderson, Swann and Bresnan (if he plays)?

Surely Trott has to go in at first slip? I'm not too keen on 3 bowlers in there, which means a different cordon every over. Trott, Swann and A N Other.

Edit: Just going by Compton's catches:matches ratio I'm guessing he doesn't field in the slips. Or if he does, he isn't very good.

The Trott is a good slip fielder idea seems to have been invented by Nick Knight... I've never seen it and I'm sure if he was any good he would have done it more in the past. That he spends his time mostly at fine leg probably suggests what England think of his fielding (as somebody who spends a lot of time at fine leg myself, I can sympathise with him somewhat)

Hasn't Trott filled in at slip for England at times or am I just imaging things? And wasn't he a slipper at Warks? - which would explain the Knight advocacy. He averages nearly a catch every FC match so that would indicate he might.

Yeah, Knight goes on on Sky about how Trott was one of the best slippers he's even seen at Warks.

But England have never really used him there (not as a regular anyway). I suspect there must be a good reason for that, particularly as Bell and Cook have at times been put in the cordon!

Samit Patel didn't discredit himself during the Sri Lanka tests last year. He wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible either. At that time I had said he should be given a decent run at 6 ahead of Ravi Bopara, and had the choice been between the 2 of them, I would certainly go for Samit with no doubt whatsoever.
But Bairstow's emergence puts a different spin on thing, the kind of 'Bairstow is the next KP' hype that was generated in the context of the last test against SA was nonsense, but Bairstow is a young tallent with a fine fine temperament. The way he came through the short ball challenge in not a lot of time was very impressive.
Both Samit and Bairstow are among the runs in the warm ups. But at the moment, I rate Samit's abilities of playing spin higher than that of Bairstow. In India pitches could either spin well or become flat roads. Samit could be handy with the ball in both the situations, all be it not so much as a strike bowler. His bowling is certainly better than parttime although you can't expect him to run through sides.
Even in the World T-20I Samit played OK and nearly pulled off a win from a rather hopeless situation, playing the Lankan spinners with great confidence in the process. Surely test cricket is a different ballgame, but the fact is that he has been among the runs in the worm ups, has a history of playing spin well in the sub-continent in limited over formats, and could be handy with the ball in testing circumstances. Bairstow's time will certainly come, but for the first test I'll start with Patel.

this is the incident from June 2011...that has resulted in Flower's team not getting any spinners in any of the practise games........and from what we hear....no local spinners would be granted access to the nets to offer practise to the visiting team......as has always in past been an informal facility granted to visitors.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/8663782/England-coach-Andy-Flower-to-ban-Monty-Panesar-from-giving-net-practice-to-Sachin-Tendulkar.html


England coach Andy Flower to ban Monty Panesar from giving net practice to Sachin Tendulkar

Expecting a backlash from the visitors, Flower has banned Monty Panesar from bowling to Sachin Tendulkar in the nets, after confirming that the England spinner had helped the Little Master practice before the opening salvo at Lord’s.

“He did bowl to him in the nets before Lord’s and I think that it is quite a naïve thing to do,” Flower said on, following his team’s 196-run victory over India the previous evening.

“I haven’t spoken to him yet but one would hope he understands that it won’t happen again.”

My concern with Samit's bowling is primarily that India tend to play that type of thing pretty well - mostly because so many Indian batsmen bowl them.

I'd put his bowling on the same level of Yuvraj's - Yuvraj will be something of a threat to England, but will India really find themselves in trouble against Samit?

On a turning track he might just manage a wicket or 2 particularly if Swann's on top of his game, as there would be pressure from the other end. On a long hot day on a flat track he could chip in with 10-15 overs, I don't see Pietersen or Trott managing that regularly.

msp83 wrote:On a turning track he might just manage a wicket or 2 particularly if Swann's on top of his game, as there would be pressure from the other end. On a long hot day on a flat track he could chip in with 10-15 overs, I don't see Pietersen or Trott managing that regularly.

Hot ?

late November and until christmas...it will be varying between cold / chilly in the morning...to pleasantly cool during the day time.
Eng is spared the shivering north Indian cold as they paly all the games in the west except the one in Kolkata can be cold and overcast during the day also......but would be subject to a 9am start as sun sets much quicker in eastern India during winters.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:On a turning track he might just manage a wicket or 2 particularly if Swann's on top of his game, as there would be pressure from the other end. On a long hot day on a flat track he could chip in with 10-15 overs, I don't see Pietersen or Trott managing that regularly.

Hot ?

late November and until christmas...it will be varying between cold / chilly in the morning...to pleasantly cool during the day time.
Eng is spared the shivering north Indian cold as they paly all the games in the west except the one in Kolkata can be cold and overcast during the day also......but would be subject to a 9am start as sun sets much quicker in eastern India during winters.

Oh right, they don't play down south and so no heat problems. But still, playing on flat roads is very much a possibility.

Haha msp and kp_fan. Anything above 20-odd degrees is good enough to count as 'hot' for us English

Shelsey93 wrote:Haha msp and kp_fan. Anything above 20-odd degrees is good enough to count as 'hot' for us English

my mother sets her air conditioner at 25 deg C in north indian summers

How TMS issue was resolved ?

Giles called his buddy Srinivasan

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_bcci-ecb-chiefs-rescue-test-match-special_1759083

The BBC will be here after all with its iconic Test Match Special (TMS) programme.

The radio broadcast of the cricket Tests between India and England was in danger of being scuppered over a payment dispute between the British Broadcast Corporation (BBC) and the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI), but it was rescued after a telephone conversation between BCCI president N Srinivasan and England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) chairman Giles Clarke.

DNA has learnt that the BCCI has agreed to accommodate the ECB chief’s request over TMS and BBC will not have to pay the heavy fee that was reportedly demanded by the Indian board. The BBC wanted an air-conditioned studio and access to the ground besides, of course, telephone connections to broadcast the matches. The BCCI has agreed to provide these facilities at concessional rates. What did the trick for the BBC was the intervention of the chiefs of the two boards.

“We’re happy that we will be there and TMS will continue uninterrupted from the spot,” Jonathan Agnew, former England fast bowler and a member of the commentary panel, told DNA. India’s very own Sunil Gavaskar will also be a commentator as will be his former England rival Geoff Boycott. Noted commentator Henry Blofeld, former England spinner Vic Marks, and India’s Prakash Wakankar complete the panel.

If I am following it on radio, I would certainly want to follow it on TMS and not AIR that if at all provides commentary these days, does from the studio.
Prakash Wakankar is a avery good radio commentator. Any possibility to follow TMS from India?

I read the other day that RadioSport in NZ have opted not to send someone over to call the SL vs NZ test series due to the $s SLC wanted.

msp83 wrote:If I am following it on radio, I would certainly want to follow it on TMS and not AIR that if at all provides commentary these days, does from the studio.
Prakash Wakankar is a avery good radio commentator. Any possibility to follow TMS from India?

on internet....
you can follow TMS or even test match sofa.

Long time back when i lived in India we would catch TMS on BBC through SW radio.....that's also probably still an option

as long as sky are covering it i will be happy

They are covering it CF, but the commentators will be what they call 'off-tube' (commentating from London), because of a dispute over costs of having studios and control rooms in India.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:If I am following it on radio, I would certainly want to follow it on TMS and not AIR that if at all provides commentary these days, does from the studio.
Prakash Wakankar is a avery good radio commentator. Any possibility to follow TMS from India?

on internet....
you can follow TMS or even test match sofa.

Long time back when i lived in India we would catch TMS on BBC through SW radio.....that's also probably still an option

KPF, I think the TMS coverage from the BBC website is available in Britain when the match isn't played in the UK. It keeps saying "due to rights restrictions the current program cannot be available"...... Have to find a workaround.

TMS won't be available in India even if it is not limited to the UK. May be I have to get my old radio back on track!.

But when I have the option of Star cricket radio won't be needed, its at times when I work on the computer or travelling that I would need it, and I would rather read cricinfo text commentary than following AIR, particularly if quality commentators like Vinit Garg and Prakash Wakankar aren't involved.

Prakash Wakankar? My dear old thing what will Blowers make of that!!

Enough to give wondrous Brian Johnson the giggles even now, may he rest in peace.