Rory moving to Nike...?

by princedracula Fri 19 Oct 2012, 4:32 pm

No, not yeat, anyway... But the rumours are now mounting and people are throwing around all sorts of numbers.

http://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2012/10/18/rory-to-nike-i-hadnt-even-heard-that.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IrishGolfDesk+%28Irish+Golf+Desk%29

This is not the first time I come across this figure in recent weeks... $250,000,000 for 10 years !!!!!

Is he worth it? Does it matter? Anyone knows what kind of deal Tiger had with Nike at his peak and how it compares to this?

Can't say for sure this will happen, but the reality is that his Titleist deal comes to an end at the end of this year, and by January we shall find out for sure...

by SmithersJones Fri 19 Oct 2012, 4:55 pm

I seem to remember Woods' initial Nike deal was something like $50m for either 5 or 10 years. Given that that was in the late 90s, this isn't unbelievable. If TM is the alternative, I can see Rory going for Nike for a number of reasons, not least their blades.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2012, 5:02 pm

Big money...stupid money. Depends what he wants - if it's golfing history he might want to make sure he's happy with Nike kit ( vomit

) or negotiate a contract that gives him a fair bit of flexibility as to how much Nike he has to carry. Still, I guess he'll have the whip hand in this sort of deal - who wouldn't want him as their star staffer?

by princedracula Fri 19 Oct 2012, 5:21 pm

Just did a bit of searching and Tiger's 'reported' deals with Nike were:

1996 ~ $40mil for 5 years
2001 ~ $100-105mil for next 5 years
2006 ~ 'well over' $100mil for another 5 years (couldn't see any definite figure for this)

So, I guess this $250mil for 10 years for Rory doesn't sound like an exageration. Interesting though that Nike would move from a 5-year deal to a 10-year deal. We'll see...

by McLaren Fri 19 Oct 2012, 5:34 pm

Nike also have a spare bit of endorsement cash sloshing around now that Armstrong has been dropped.

by beninho Fri 19 Oct 2012, 5:50 pm

When your as good as Rory or most top pros then the clubs should not make much difference. So take the money!!!!

by super_realist Fri 19 Oct 2012, 5:58 pm

Nike blades or any other blades used by top guys are very rarely made by said brand. Usually Japanese forging with oem stamps on them.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2012, 8:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Nike blades or any other blades used by top guys are very rarely made by said brand. Usually Japanese forging with oem stamps on them.

There's little real evidence for this. It's mainly an internet myth.

by super_realist Fri 19 Oct 2012, 8:34 pm

Actually, not so much of a myth Navy, I was told that by a highly renowned club fitter. He didn't say all pro's were, but that some were. Anyway, my point was that Nike are not renowned as being so good at making blades that they are better than anybody elses. Rory certainly isn't going to move on the basis of the club.
I just remembered that I had a set of Miura forged Taylor Made RAC MB's several years ago, so they do exist. Garcia used that particular model for a very long time.

I see Nike as very much the route one, boring, dads sport brand these days, fast becoming like Wilson Staff. They haven't been cool for a very long time and have never really excelled at any sport in particular in equipment other than basketball and football boots. Very dreary products these days and lacking in imagination. Probably no money due to all these bell ends they sponsor.

by Hibbz Fri 19 Oct 2012, 9:41 pm

They were for a while the No1 for running spikes but I guess with Usain going with Puma it probably isn't the case any more.

Best thing Nike ever made were those two tone jackets/windbreakers from the 80's. I remember pestering my mum for months until she bought me one.

It was a beaut, light grey/dark grey combo but within two weeks an incident involving one of those lethal McDonald's Apple Pies left it permanently stained.

Still wore it with pride for many years after mind you.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:02 pm

super_realist wrote:Actually, not so much of a myth Navy, I was told that by a highly renowned club fitter. He didn't say all pro's were, but that some were. Anyway, my point was that Nike are not renowned as being so good at making blades that they are better than anybody elses. Rory certainly isn't going to move on the basis of the club.
I just remembered that I had a set of Miura forged Taylor Made RAC MB's several years ago, so they do exist. Garcia used that particular model for a very long time.

I see Nike as very much the route one, boring, dads sport brand these days, fast becoming like Wilson Staff. They haven't been cool for a very long time and have never really excelled at any sport in particular in equipment other than basketball and football boots. Very dreary products these days and lacking in imagination. Probably no money due to all these bell ends they sponsor.

"I was told...", "a renowned clubfitter"? Details?
How do you know that your RAC MBs were Miura forged? You had a certificate proving it? Japanese forgings with OEM stamps probably do exist but in nowhere near the numbers that are claimed on the internet. It's legendary and there's almost never any definitive proof other than "I heard it from a fitter who knows some pros....."

by super_realist Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:08 pm

It was a guy Ed Robertson from Applied Golf Technology in St.Andrews who has club fitted for Monty, Stephen Gallacher, Richie Ramsay, Paul McGinley etc.

He has adjusted all my blades for loft, lie etc and it was he who spotted the forgings on my RAC blades, not an internet claim on the serial number. Something to do with how the grooves are cut differently by all accounts.

That good enough, or prefer to take the non knowledge of a bunch of dick'eds on an internet forum?

by SmithersJones Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:12 pm

When I said the blades would be a factor it was because TM don't make a set of pure blades, and Rory uses blades made by Titleist. Nike blades are used by Woods, Molinari and various others. This whole Miura nonsense is so overblown. As NBS says, where's the real evidence. There are so many photos and even specific 'in the bag' articles these days that it would be impossible for any OEM to pass off somebody else's kit as theirs just by badging it as such.

by SmithersJones Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:14 pm

Man who earns money from selling custom fitted clubs said so, so it must be true.

by super_realist Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:17 pm

Of course it wouldn't. If you look at some of the KZG and other minor iron forgers, they are frequently made using previous companies cast off(no pun intended) designs bought up for them to produce from . They are by all accounts identical bar the KZG logo so it's perfectly possible for a firm to make identical irons.

If a bunch of CHinese knock off merchants can do it to flood ebay with, you can be sure a top of the line Japanese forger could do so on behalf of an OEM.

by SmithersJones Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:22 pm

It's perfectly plausible that a top Japanese forger could be making Nike or TItleist blades. What's not plausible is that they only make the ones Tiger or Rory use, whereas the clubs available for sale to Joe Public are in some way different.

by super_realist Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:30 pm

And nobody is saying that they are, are they?

I'm sure, especcially in Japan where irons are ridiculously myred in Forging houses and bespoke expensive purchases that you can buy Japanese forgings of all the top OEM's clubs.

So while many pro's will simply have a custom made club to fit them that hasn't been made in Japan, i'e made to measure by Titliest, Callaway etc using their own forging, there are plenty, reputedly who do prefer the feel of something more refined.

It's not a tinfoil hat conspiracy, internet rumour or anything like that, simply that many top players prefer the feel only a top forger (usually from Japan, but Scratch golf is another) can give them, but contractually they are obliged to play clubs stamped by a certain manufacturer, so it's a suitable situation for both.

I think Woods should get fitted with a set of game improvement clubs after his Ryder Cup embarassment. Perhaps a set of Slazenger Big Easy forged by Miura would suit him Laugh

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:31 pm

As Smithers says, a custom fitter says Miura forged your RACs...it must be true. It could be, most likely not. It's still an internet legend and massively overblown.
If Miura-san has done it for touring pros, they're rare and yet loads of people all over the internet claim it's true and they've had a set. Miura etc don't trumpet it, the pros don't trumpet it and yet it's common knowledge on the internet?? Come on...
Your mate Robertson...he was involved in the purchase of those irons for the pros you mention? Or he adjusted/fitted/whatever the irons of those pros? If he had nothing to do with the actual purchasing it's hardly proof is it?
Sorry to be sceptical but I a) don't believe the forgings of Miura-san are so good that in a blind trial they'd stand out and b) don't believe that a major OEM can't source forgings/castings of similar quality as the best anywhere else for their star staffers if that staffer so requires.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:32 pm

super_realist wrote:...I think Woods should get fitted with a set of game improvement clubs after his Ryder Cup embarassment. Perhaps a set of Slazenger Big Easy forged by Miura would suit him

by super_realist Fri 19 Oct 2012, 10:38 pm

Navy, he didn't sell Miura or Taylor Made. What on earth would he have to gain by telling me they were?

I know it's no proof, but I can't see why they'd lie, also you can look on the Japanese Taylor Made site and see the different stuff that they get that never see the light of day over here. They really do golf equipment differently over there so there's no reason to suggest it isn't going on to some degree. I'll bet theres a difference between golf stuff between Europe and US too. You only have to look at the difference between the same model of car sold in US and Europe to know the European one is better quality.

You reckon football boots for Messi are the same ones sold in JJB?

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2012, 11:06 pm

Japan-specific TM kit doesn't equate to being forged by Miura as far as I can see. Wouldn't mind betting that a lot of this so-called Japan forged kit is out-sourced to Chinese forging outfits...
Anyway, I'm sure Rory will make sure he gets gear comparable to his current Titleist setup. If not, maybe he'll hit all Titty gear with Nike stampings Whistle

....

by super_realist Sat 20 Oct 2012, 7:17 am

Funny you should say that Navy, the "internet rumour" at the time when Nine Chin Woods moved from Titleist to Nike was that he was using Nike stamped Titleist blades because their golf club development was embryonic and probably of a Donnay like quality.

Nike already admit you can't buy the same ball he uses (q golftoday, although not sure why you'd want a ball that ends up in the woods off the tee Laugh

), so perhaps that's not the only stuff that isn't the same as what we have available.

by SmithersJones Sun 21 Oct 2012, 10:27 am

IIRC they weren't Nike stamped at all. They were either plain or may well have still had the Titleist stamp on them. And I believe it was the design of their clubs, not the manufacture, which wasn't up to the required standard until he'd provided his input and they'd recruited some of the top designers.

by goldwolf Sun 21 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm

It is stupid money, but then business is business, and I'm sure if Rory continues in the way he has over the last few years, Nike will make their money back and more. Whatever happens, Nike or Titleist, he's in for a bumper payout, not that he needs it mind.

by pedro Sun 21 Oct 2012, 8:31 pm

beninho wrote:When your as good as Rory or most top pros then the clubs should not make much difference. So take the money!!!!

Maybe he should talk to his buddy Gmac first...

by hend085 Sun 21 Oct 2012, 11:54 pm

Interesting to hear only Nike and tm have the dosh to compete. Are callaway not in the same league?

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 7:16 am

Callaway are very much small league these days compared to Taylor Made.

Does anyone else think Nike have an image problem, not because of Woods or Armstrong scandals, just because they aren't innovative, interesting or inspiring products anymore. A bit like being sponsored by Vauxhall.

Golf has moved on and Nike seem very old hat indeed.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 22 Oct 2012, 9:06 am

I think Nike always had/have an image problem...unless you were a teenager.
Now they maybe have the additional issue about sponsoring people with the morals of the sewer. Maybe that doesn't bother them though.

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 9:25 am

They got rid of Armstrong because they don't want the kids in the sweatshop to carry the stigma of making products for a drugs cheat Laugh

by Diggers Mon 22 Oct 2012, 9:55 am

Depends what you call a problem Navy, might have been a problem for you buying Nike gear but it certainly wasnt a problem for Nike sales which have been fantastic up until the last year or so, and lets face it there are reasons for anyone suffering recently.
You cant expect any company to appeal to every section of society, especially when its all about the brand. How could Nike continue to be cool to the youth market if middle aged duffers all think its cool as well ?
As for them sponsoring people with the morals of a sewer, do you not think that Adidas and Reebok and pretty much any sports brand you could care to name on the planet hasnt sponsored someone who has been done for drugs or slept around when they were married ?

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 10:05 am

I don't think sponsorship is the issue Diggers, more that it's gone from a once heralded and premier sports brand but is now a jack of all trades dreary brand where they do nothing exciting. The Gola of the golf world.

by Diggers Mon 22 Oct 2012, 10:23 am

So tell me what the exciting sports brands are that are doing ground breaking stuff ?
If you dont think Nike still has kudos youve clearly never been to the Oxford Street flagship store which is always heaving with kids.
I doubt Nikes market share has even dropped off that much, its more likely just part of a gradual slump for everyone.

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 10:37 am

I'm sure it's popular Diggers amongst certain demographics Diggers, but it seems to me that they have become complacent, don't produce anything like the old SQ drivers that make people want to buy them, their clothes as donned by the likes of Woods, Cink, Casey, etc are pretty rubbish looking these days and companies like Footjoy are making far better looking shoes.

They don't appear to do anything really well, just produce a range of "that'll do" British Leyland type products. As a brand I would say they are losing ground to Adidas. Not sure about the tracky wearing, inner city scumbag types, but in general sport, they look a bit tawdry compared to other companies offerings.

Even in running where they started they are well down the pecking order.

by Diggers Mon 22 Oct 2012, 10:48 am

To be honest most golf gear looks pretty awful, nothing is what you would call cool.
I still think they make a lot of good stuff, I like their leaisure wear compare to say Adidas which Ive always thought looked pretty disgusting.
But just like me you can only look at it subjectively and you are a conservative (with a small c) ma.n in his 30's. Your cool ain't what other dudes see as cool superdog. Sic.

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 11:25 am

I'll agree with that Diggers, no golf gear is cool.

Nike just seem very staid these days, lost any edge they might have had and perhaps became so ubiquitous that they became too big for their own good, especially in golf when they were JCL's with no real heritage in the game.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm

Cool? Laughable really. I see plenty of yoofs with their trousers round their arses and the kecks hanging out in the name of 'cool'. Fashion has to be one of the funniest things going.

by Roller_Coaster Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm

There were a load of yoofs out playing pub golf on Saturday.

Seems to involve 20 something year old girls in hot pants and diamond jumpers. The gear is still not cool, but some of them were trying their best and made it look good.

by Diggers Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Cool? Laughable really. I see plenty of yoofs with their trousers round their arses and the kecks hanging out in the name of 'cool'. Fashion has to be one of the funniest things going.

So you give absoloutley no thought about how the clothes that you purchase and wear look ?

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:49 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Cool? Laughable really. I see plenty of yoofs with their trousers round their arses and the kecks hanging out in the name of 'cool'. Fashion has to be one of the funniest things going.

So you give absoloutley no thought about how the clothes that you purchase and wear look ?

Not really, no. At least not in the sense you're looking for re. fashion. I suppose I wear the occasional T-shirt of some rock band or other but that's hardly cutting edge fashion is it? I suppose, thinking about it, if I ever put on some decent clothes for an evening out I think about it somewhat but again, I wouldn't describe it as current fashion. Too much fashion is about some ovine instinct to copy some current flavour of the month. Baa!

by incontinentia Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:58 pm

If Tiger Woods wears it, its cool. End of.

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm

Ha ha, he's one of the worst dressed of all. Have you seen his corrective clubfoot shoes? Hysterically bad.

by Diggers Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:01 pm

People just like to feel good, whether they look good to you or me is a bit irrelevant really.
People think a suit and tie is smart, but really for me a tie has to be one of the stupidest, most useless inventions in the history of the world. Uncomfortable, impractical, often ugly, yet some people feel naked without one.
Its all horses for courses.

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:03 pm

Ties are horrible. Most suits too. For me the worst things are pointy shoes, slip on shoes, this obsession with "skinny fit" trousers that look like a Thin Lizzy concert in 1980. It looks ridiculous.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:04 pm

Very true but I still maintain that wearing one's trousers off one's arse doesn't even fit the 'feel good' criteria!

by Diggers Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:07 pm

super_realist wrote: this obsession with "skinny fit" trousers that look like a Thin Lizzy concert in 1980. It looks ridiculous.

Id certainly look ridiculous if I wore a pair. Id have been all over them when I was 17 though. In fact I think stretch jeans were the big thing back then. I think you were born as a 70 year old Super. You are like Benjamin Button but just staying with an old duffer attitude rather than getting younger.

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:07 pm

Absolutely Navy.
Have you seen those trousers with elasticated bottoms? Stupid.
Some of the fat people wearing skinny clothes are also awful. They must have to jump off the wardrobe to get into them.

by McLaren Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:09 pm

Super

Just wondering if you could go back and answer a simple question asked by diggers earlier in the thread? He asked what sports brands were cutting edge/innovative/cool if nike are not?

Could you please provide a list to answer this question?

by super_realist Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:14 pm

I don't really think any are that "cutting edge" Mac.

What I was saying is that Nike have somewhat fallen off their pedestal as a leader in sportswear, particularly in golf.

In Golf they appear to have been over taken by better quality, better tailored clothing by people like Galvin Green, Oscar Jacobsen, Peak Performance, Footjoy etc.

Whether or not they are "cooler" is up for debate as I don't think anything in golf could be considered "cool", not even the game itself and golfers certainly aren't, but the point is that Nike in golf for a few years seemed to be everywhere, however they are not so common now, and appear to be like the poor relation.

I've still got a pair of Nike shoes however. Not bad, but need replacing.

by pedro Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:16 pm

I wonder if navy is making a fashion statement with his alias?

by Diggers Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:30 pm

Super, all thats happened is that the other big sports brands have upped their game after copying the Nike innovation of cooler branding on bigger ranges and boutique stores in cities.
They all do it now, Puma, Adidas, even Reebok. Its much easier to copy rather than innovate.
In relation to golf the small brands that you mention will always have a degree of cool mainly because they are top end of the market and quite exclusive, Nike is mainstream and wont even try and compete against that kind of competition.

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