How Long Will Higganbotham Get?

First topic message reminder :

Again Brisbane, again Wallaby thuggery targets Richie McCaw, again a casual knee to the head, another headbutt on the AB Captain.

Despite looking right at it, it was one of those nights when the usually accurate Craig Joubert apparently "couldn't see it", maybe the South African has cataracts, it seemed to be a continuous issue for him, the inability to spot a Wallaby infringing. Will the citing commissioner have clearer vision? and how long will the Higganbotham get rested for? It must be clear to the citing commission that this tactic is a predetermined and premeditated and conscious approach from the Wallabies.

He should get a decent rest, I'd suggest the judiciary should rule him out of the AIs altogether.

Yeah Im getting a bit tired of it as well.
Perhaps they need to keep a list of the names and deal to them as they play them next time. Just like the good old days. I mean these cowards know players are taking pot shots at McCaw the world over. Why on earth would you want to add your name to the list?

Thta makes Higganbotham one of the thickest players to walk the earth...

anotherworldofpain wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

mowgli wrote:AWOP wouldn't be vaguely interested in the knee had Carter not choked and NZ had won

Wow Mowgli I suppose you think your funny with all your anti All Black and New Zealand digs about us Kiwis being chokers, Why dont you just F..k off.

Laurie, you have to remember the position Mowgli is coming from. Three generations of his family have waited with nervous anticipation before 60 years of Wales v All Black games only to have their expectations smashed, the only pleasure they get is vicarious schadenfreude when NZ can only to manage to draw with the #2 side in the world, in an effectively dead rubber after defeating the other top 3 teams in the world home and away to win yet another tournament.. . When you look at it from his perspective, all the bile and bitter resentment makes sense. So it's easy for us to be the bigger people and just let it slide.

Us to be the bigger people? You finally coughed to being a Kiwi then. Fair play to you. It'll take some new words like combinator to revert back to the old AWOP now.

Higginbotham (note the spelling) will get a small ban. For what it's worth, he just as well be given the Autumn off anyway.

0 weeks for the knee and headbutt - My 2 year old hits harder and causes more damage

12 weeks for the shear stupidity thinking you can do that cr p these days and that a camera won't pick it up ..............!

Dope

Risca Rev wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

mowgli wrote:AWOP wouldn't be vaguely interested in the knee had Carter not choked and NZ had won

Wow Mowgli I suppose you think your funny with all your anti All Black and New Zealand digs about us Kiwis being chokers, Why dont you just F..k off.

Laurie, you have to remember the position Mowgli is coming from. Three generations of his family have waited with nervous anticipation before 60 years of Wales v All Black games only to have their expectations smashed, the only pleasure they get is vicarious schadenfreude when NZ can only to manage to draw with the #2 side in the world, in an effectively dead rubber after defeating the other top 3 teams in the world home and away to win yet another tournament.. . When you look at it from his perspective, all the bile and bitter resentment makes sense. So it's easy for us to be the bigger people and just let it slide.

Us to be the bigger people? You finally coughed to being a Kiwi then. Fair play to you. It'll take some new words like combinator to revert back to the old AWOP now.

Higginbotham (note the spelling) will get a small ban. For what it's worth, he just as well be given the Autumn off anyway.

AWOP

yadda yadda yadda, still trying to distract from the point here, that you whine like a schoolboy when NZ choke (again)

Wales do not contend they are the world's best, far from it, no one is interested...this is about you and your Kiwi mates taking yourselves far too seriously and not having the cohones to admit you stuffed it.

By the way, much as i admire the olympic standards you have reached in perfecting your English, as a Kiwi i get that English is not your first language, but if you are going to use big words you don't understand please look up their meaning in your English for Colonials Dictionary; schadenfreude is, by definition, vicarious.

Well all I've said all morning mowgli is how badly we stuffed it? So thanks for admitting I have the cohones. But you knew that anyway didn't you.

I think Higginbotham will get around 4 weeks - 2 for the knee and 2 for the head butt. Not sure if they would normally count the 4 weeks from next Saturday or 4 tests. Silly stuff. He reminds me a bit of Sam Scott-Young - a back rower who loved to niggle the AB's in the 90's. Although in Higginbotham's case, he is a much better player.

Well if Greyling basically missed one game for running in and landing a full on elbow to the head then Higgers shouldn't even need to put on his judiciary suit for that effort. It was pretty stupid and he should miss a few games for it but I imagine that Richie's out there niggling away at players looking for just this sort of response.

Really? Funny. Doesn't ever look like it. In fact they always look the most unprovoked attacks of all the RM ones.

Its like there's some unwritten code that's inherent in world rugby...get mccaw.

You don't rack up 100 odd tests without learning a trick or two. I've seen plenty from McCaw over the years to suggest he likes to get the edge however he can. The thing with Quade is a perfect example. McCaw holds him back, forearms him in the head (of which there's a lovely picture of on the Roar), niggles him all game, Quade retailiates in perhaps not the most elegant fashion, and earns himself a lifelong nation-wide kiwi hate campaign for his efforts.

I can understand from a kiwi perspective that McCaw seems to be the target of some nasty stuff lately but is it Scott Higginbotham's fault what a French player, South African player etc has done to him beforehand?

In this instance McCaw flops over onto the newly formed ruck completely from the side and attempts to play the ball while still off his feet. Unsurprisingly he isn't penalised for these multiple infringements (Mealamu is). Then it looks to me that Higgers gestures to McCaw as if to offer him a hand up. If I'm reading that correctly (and I may well not be), something happens between offering a hand and walking into his face.

Either way, I don't condone what was done but to make out Richie doesn't provoke players one way or another is a bridge too far.

FC, I agree with you McCaw plays a very fine line, and I understand players get fed up when he continually does it. But there is a way where you can do it legally and the referee will notice it.

drag him out of the ruck like a bag of potatoes. If he is on the wrong side of the ruck often enough and referees see a trend where McCaw is dragged out in every match they will become more vigilant.

Any player on the wrong side of the ruck, off his feet is there to be dealt with, but in a legal way. Players need to smarten up, you may not ruck him our of there, you may not injure him, but there is nothing in the law that says don't treat him like a laundry bag when he is in the wrong side of the ruck.

Grab the player by his legs, arms or whatever stick out and remove him.

Simples.

In fact if I was coach of the oppostion team I will assign a player to every ruck to execute the move to be called the WaCcM - Wack 'um - get it, the anti McCaw.

His job will be to remove any player lying on the wrong side, in fact on the training ground, the players must bring their laundry bags, we'll have three guys holding onto the bag, and one guy attmepting to remove it.

Henceforth, it will be known as the Wack 'um play.

If the half back screams Wack 'um, they will know what needs to be done.

Yep, you're right Biltong. One person needs to be assigned McCaw duty. God I miss rucking.

FC, the amazing thing about rugby is that the laws have changed to reduce injries, which I can understand, yet, these days there are more injuries because the players are bigger, stronger and fitter than ever before.

Kind of an oxymoron ain't it?

So you should keep these players away from gyms as well, has rucking ever caused as many injuries as these big athletes get purely from training so hard in the gym?

I'm amazed what some people "see" Richie McCaw "do". It's odd that the acknowledged greatest flanker is always doing nothing but cheating...

Biltong wrote:In fact if I was coach of the oppostion team I will assign a player to every ruck to execute the move to be called the WaCcM - Wack 'um - get it, the anti McCaw.

His job will be to remove any player lying on the wrong side, in fact on the training ground, the players must bring their laundry bags, we'll have three guys holding onto the bag, and one guy attmepting to remove it.

Henceforth, it will be known as the Wack 'um play.

If the half back screams Wack 'um, they will know what needs to be done.

Mate,there's no need to talk hypothetically. That seems to be what happens already.

The judiciary nee to cotton on and make an example of someone. Mindless frustrated thuggery is just the gap between desire and talent.

AWOP, I think you are being over sensitive here, this thread opened by you is about higginbotham on McCaw, so naturally the discussions will be about those two players.

you can add Pocock, Warburton, and any other number of fetchers to the list.

They all play a fine line between legal and illegal, and as we have discussed before numerous times, the referee has so many areas he has to watch that he cannot police everything that happens at the ruck.

The trick is for teams to find ways of "self policing" that is not against the laws.

Funny that a referee can spot so many technical infringements in 80 minutes, but of the dozen or so cheap shots wished usher out to McCaw in the last couple of years only Wayne Barnes has seen it! Also I note higganbutthim is up agaInst the same SA commisiOner who cleared quade cooper last year...perhaps some level Of thuggery is seen as accePtable in some rugby cultures.

Yes and that fine line has higginbotham facing the tribunal while you lot justify his actions. Get a grip.

I just read he got 6 weeks. will have to confrim it though.

*cough* Richard Loe *cough*

And for someone who's had seven nominations for player of the year compared to how many between the great names of cooper, grayling, higginbotham and rougerie let alone to not name many more who have tried to take his head off?

Plain and simple. Lack of talent versus plenty of it can only lead to one thing. Jealousy and and inability to compete with it, frustration and thick minds. I mean look at those names...all first class morons with attitude problems.

No argument from me.

There is no place for thuggery in the game.

Are high profile players targetted - probably not - but they play more matches so there is more chance of being "thugged".

Good opensides will also tend to put their bodies in places that makes thuggery easier - if you are over the ball and not moving you have painted a big target for the morons.

Taylorman wrote:Plain and simple. Lack of talent versus plenty of it can only lead to one thing. Jealousy and and inability to compete with it, frustration and thick minds. I mean look at those names...all first class morons with attitude problems.

Of course the same thing can apply when NZers have committed thuggery on high profile captains of opposing teams.

Gregor paul is echoing my comments about making an example of him, he suggests 8 weeks, which is exactly what I said too.

Great point from him that the IRB seem habitually negligent. In the event of a serious injury the NZRFU would be within their rights to sue for some serious money.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Great point from him that the IRB seem habitually negligent. In the event of a serious injury the NZRFU would be within their rights to sue for some serious money.

Well, there is a precedent in Rugby League where Jarrod McCracken sued Stephen Kearney and Marccus Bai for a career ending spear tackle. Speaking of spear tackles, wouldn't this just open up some old wounds that need not be revisited?

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Plain and simple. Lack of talent versus plenty of it can only lead to one thing. Jealousy and and inability to compete with it, frustration and thick minds. I mean look at those names...all first class morons with attitude problems.

Of course the same thing can apply when NZers have committed thuggery on high profile captains of opposing teams.

Yes if were talking ancient history and one occasion. Mccaw was hit LAST NIGHT and again a couple of months ago and eye gouged less than a year ago. Play the same old tape london- attack mccaw, get out the odriscoll tape, attack mccaw again, get the tape out again...geez.

. For the level of succes the Abs have, with every single team lifting themselves more against them than any other side Id say the Abs overall have a damn good record on the field.

Nobody's doubting McCaw's credentials Taylorman. The man is an extremely gifted, hard as nails player. Now I understand that McCaw is protected under NZ law punishable by death and should be allowed to play with a cape and a giant "R" on his chest but to opposing teams he is a serial pest at most breakdowns (mostly legally, occasionally not).

I don't mean to sound like I'm justifying Higginbotham's actions (I've already commented that it was dumb and should be punished) but I'm just trying to offer an alternative view on this whole thing. Maybe it is as black and white as most kiwi's seem to be claiming... that everyone else is jealous of his talents, and the whole world has conspired to target him. The alternative theory is that he contributes to it in some way by the way he plays. In any case, I fail to see why Higginbotham should be 'made an example of' as awop claims, essentially held accountable for other peoples actions.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Funny that a referee can spot so many technical infringements in 80 minutes, but of the dozen or so cheap shots wished usher out to McCaw in the last couple of years only Wayne Barnes has seen it! Also I note higganbutthim is up agaInst the same SA commisiOner who cleared quade cooper last year...perhaps some level Of thuggery is seen as accePtable in some rugby cultures.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/8123140/New-Zealand-to-appeal-Keven-Mealamus-ban-issued-by-IRB-for-headbutt-on-Englands-Lewis-Moody.html wrote:

"He is not a dirty player, he never has been. This is a case we'll go to the death on," said All Blacks assistant coach Steve Hansen, who formed part of Mealamu's defence team.

"Everyone knows it's not in his nature to do that and everyone knows if Kevvy says he didn't do it, he didn't do it.

"We are defending a guy whose character has been questioned when it shouldn't be. He is a one-off special person. He hasn't got a dirty bone in his body."

Yes I get that but I inevitably time and time again mccaw gets physically attacked, and this time was a big nothing as far as I was concerned compared to others, the boards light up about how he deserves it, how brings it on himself etc.

Sometimes you just get sick of it.

Anyway, higginbotham just joined the long list of clowns. He and cooper will be sitting in a bar one day wondering where it all went sour for them.

Am I the only one who doesn't think the knee and headbutt were that bad? It looks to me as if he was trying to provoke McCaw rather than hurt him. Still not particularly sporting but I've seen a lot worse.

McCaw's won 100/113 tests (that's right eh?), he's key to how the ABs go so players target him because they know if they can take him out, the ABs could flounder like they did a couple of years ago. He doesn't retaliate and sucks it up, doesn't stop people from continually trying though.

Has anyone kneed, elbowed, close lined, gouged Pocock? He's the biggest pest in international rugby and is an excellent player because it. Why doesn't anyone want to poke his eyes out?

ebop, I suspect he doesn't play often enough.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't think the knee and headbutt were that bad? It looks to me as if he was trying to provoke McCaw rather than hurt him. Still not particularly sporting but I've seen a lot worse.

I think you have to punish them no matter how minimal the actual contact is mate. Slippery slope once they don't.

ebop wrote:McCaw's won 100/113 tests (that's right eh?), he's key to how the ABs go so players target him because they know if they can take him out, the ABs could flounder like they did a couple of years ago. He doesn't retaliate and sucks it up, doesn't stop people from continually trying though.

Has anyone kneed, elbowed, close lined, gouged Pocock? He's the biggest pest in international rugby and is an excellent player because it. Why doesn't anyone want to poke his eyes out?

He just missed 6 tests with a knee injury from keiren read lining him up from 2m offside.

boomeranga wrote:

ebop wrote:McCaw's won 100/113 tests (that's right eh?), he's key to how the ABs go so players target him because they know if they can take him out, the ABs could flounder like they did a couple of years ago. He doesn't retaliate and sucks it up, doesn't stop people from continually trying though.

Has anyone kneed, elbowed, close lined, gouged Pocock? He's the biggest pest in international rugby and is an excellent player because it. Why doesn't anyone want to poke his eyes out?

He just missed 6 tests with a knee injury from keiren read lining him up from 2m offside.

I forgot about that, do you have a clip?

I can't remember exactly how it happened.

No I don't sorry.

Yeah read smashed pocock. Nothing wrong with the tackle itself- in fact it was one for the training video-copybook.
From memory it wasn't read that was offside though someone was.

I think it was Mealamu in the midfield, it wasn't much (which is why it sticks in the mind).

I wouldn't be surprised if Higgenbottom gets a bit of a break. Just rewatched the incident on rugby dump and it's probably worse than Greyling, in that it's much more premeditated. he gets up, seeks McCaw out, walk's over to him, has a bit of knee to the head and and then drops his knee onto his head, whilst he's prone on the ground. He's looking at McCaw's head the whole time.

He's gotten 2 games - 4 weeks http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/7848774/Scott-Higginbotham-receives-two-game-ban

He definitely seeks him out and appears to gesture to him before it all kicks off. As for dropping the knee on his head, that only happened because McCaw pulled him over.

blackcanelion wrote:I think it was Mealamu in the midfield, it wasn't much (which is why it sticks in the mind).

I wouldn't be surprised if Higgenbottom gets a bit of a break. Just rewatched the incident on rugby dump and it's probably worse than Greyling, in that it's much more premeditated. he gets up, seeks McCaw out, walk's over to him, has a bit of knee to the head and and then drops his knee onto his head, whilst he's prone on the ground. He's looking at McCaw's head the whole time.

It is definitely not more stupid than Greyling's.

That was the dummest move I have ever seen on a rugby field.

anotherworldofpain wrote:I'm amazed what some people "see" Richie McCaw "do". It's odd that the acknowledged greatest flanker is always doing nothing but cheating...

surely, being the 'greatest flanker' is akin to being the 'greatest cheater'?

maybe thats just the fullback in me talking..

I've only seen this quickly, it didnt look like too much, McCaws had worse, put it that way, but I'd imagine there'll be a game or 2 ban for Higs.

I just read on another forum where one guy was suggesting rucking should be brought back, then these things are less likely to occur.

Bill, i think you need to give the players space to sort out the issues at the breakdown by themselves within the game, rucking does that.

Obviously there'd need to be a line, but would it be any more of a mess than we currently have now?

I mean, if a players lying on the wrong side of a ruck and a forward of the opposite team is bringing this to the refs attention, I'd prefer that forward to be able to remove the offending player (via a couple of his forward mates) with a little reminder that if hes there again, that'll just keep happening.

I dont remember any cases where rucking went too far?

Mowgli, if you're going to use a Spanish word, you should know the letter h is never pronounced in Spanish. Cojones is balls not cohones. Nor is it cajones which means drawers and I don't mean underwear but what you put your underwear in.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Mowgli, if you're going to use a Spanish word, you should know the letter h is never pronounced in Spanish. Cojones is balls not cohones. Nor is it cajones which means drawers and I don't mean underwear but what you put your underwear in.

He'll have to read that when he returns Kia. In a few days.

Comfort wrote:Bill, i think you need to give the players space to sort out the issues at the breakdown by themselves within the game, rucking does that.

Obviously there'd need to be a line, but would it be any more of a mess than we currently have now?

I mean, if a players lying on the wrong side of a ruck and a forward of the opposite team is bringing this to the refs attention, I'd prefer that forward to be able to remove the offending player (via a couple of his forward mates) with a little reminder that if hes there again, that'll just keep happening.

I dont remember any cases where rucking went too far?

Yeah, I agree, can't remember rucking ever being that dangerous. Less so than a hit of a shoulder in the ribs anyway.

Nursing a boot to the cojones. Ouch! Get well soon mowgli.

Number 11 boot, that was.