Sam Warburton??

Should Sam Warburton retire from rugby?

He does seem to get injured at times when his team needs him the most. Wether it is Cardiff Blues like today or Wales as in internationals.

I know players cannot help getting injured. But he does seem to get more times than most other players.

And also with the injuries he keeps getting do you think he be in the Lions squad? Can the Lions squad carry some one who gets injured so easerly?

Have been saying it for a while, Sam Warburton is an outstanding talent, however he seems too "brittle" for rugby, outside of the world cup I don't think he has ever put a string of games together.

The commentator alluded to it, he needs to put together a series of performances, week in week out, but his body just wont let him, its a curse to have so much ability only to be let down time after time because of physical limitations.

Either he is carrying some niggling injury that hasn't fully healed, or his strength and conditioning coaches are doing something hideously wrong.

To be fair he went off today with what looked like a broken nose, that could happen to anyone.

Well lets just hope he has the determination the Wilkinson had over the years because he again got injured at drop of a hat and kept coming back

It's an interesting point. Some players, e.g. Wilkinson, do appear too 'fragile' for pro rugby, always getting injured and re-injured, but with the proper rehab, training and long rests, they go on to greatness. Richie McCaw was always knocking himself out early in his career.

Warburton is a huge talent. Still potentially the best NH openside of the pro era.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Well lets just hope he has the determination the Wilkinson had over the years because he again got injured at drop of a hat and kept coming back

If you see Jonny now, he has been playing very well (though a bit off his best today) and relatively injury-free. Just the usual knocks an older player picks up. Goes to show the benefits of proper injury management.

From what I have seen Warburton's injuries are not really connected. He plays hard, and these things can happen. At this point it seems like bad luck. But, we all know players are generally rushed back from injury too quickly, so that could easily play a role as well. He is a terrific talent and it is a shame any time he is off the pitch.

How old is Warburton now, 23?

Some players get a run of bad luck with injuries, the important thing for him is not to get dispondend and just manage his injuries as best he can, perhaps fewer club games could lead to less stress on his body and controlled aggression could go a long way to lengthening his career.

You also need to discern between knocks (which is inevitable) and actual long term injuries.

Muscle tears etc has more to do with the type of training and preparation a player has, and knocks, well they happen.

There are many questions aren't there?
Should Warburton retire? Of course not.
Should Madge take a primary school spelling test? No, he would fail it far too "easerly"

Biltong wrote:.......You also need to discern between knocks (which is inevitable) and actual long term injuries.
Muscle tears etc has more to do with the type of training and preparation a player has, and knocks, well they happen.

Absolutely. Seems to me Warburton has some bad luck as well as possibly needing some changes to his training regimen. One size does not fit all.

I'm not sure why people are getting quite so childish here. Questioning whether Sam Warbutons body can stand up to the rigours of the professional game is perfectly valid considering the amount of time he has spent out injured since the world cup last year. It may well be that it is simply a case of letting him get completely healed from whatever is ailing him at the moment and then looking at his training and conditioning regime going forwards, however it may also be that his body just can’t take the physicality of the game.

Modern top level rugby is more attritional than it has ever been and this is highlighted by the sheer number of premature retirements through injury over the last 12 months or so. There is every chance that Warburton could become the next Tom Rees, another talented openside whose body just would not let him be the player that his actual talent suggested that he could have been.

He's a 'real' 7 - he puts his head and hands in dangerous places and he pays the price through injurty. Martyn Williams was always picking up bumps and scrapes.

munkian wrote:He's a 'real' 7 - he puts his head and hands in dangerous places and he pays the price through injurty. Martyn Williams was always picking up bumps and scrapes.

But I don't remember Williams spending so much time out of the game, and there are plenty of other "real" 7s who have managed careers without repeated injury breaks (McCaw for one - I know he's taking time off now, but that's to prolong an already impressively long career).

I don't know whether Warburton is unlucky or whether there is something that needs to be changed in the way he trains and prepares himself, but there has to be a real concern over whether he can get in shape for what will be a very long season.

Maybe its his training regime or his style of game. Like with Wilko, he himself admitted his training regime bordered on obsessive and we all knew u=in his pomp he put his body in places to other No10 would dream of.

Players who suffer a number of muscle or ligament injuries (Tait, Henson, Warburton, Wilkinson come to mind) need to look at their training.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maybe its his training regime or his style of game. Like with Wilko, he himself admitted his training regime bordered on obsessive and we all knew u=in his pomp he put his body in places to other No10 would dream of.

In Jonny's case, there was also an issue with playing in an environment where a) he had limited protection from his pack, b) he was needed to play as soon as possible after injury and c) the weather was frequently miserable. It's notable how much fitter he's been since he's gone to the south of France, where the pack is monstrous, the weather nice and they have multiple international FHs on the books (and frequently field 3 in the same XV)...

But why is it that Warburton gets injured a lot whereas, say, Robshaw - who plays the same position with at least the same intensity, and by all accounts has a similarly obsessive approach to training - has missed perhaps half a dozen games through injury in the last 5 years (albeit having had two seasons out through injury early in his career)?

Poor,

Maybe them two years has actually helped him now

bedfordwelsh wrote:Poor,

Maybe them two years has actually helped him now

Perhaps, if it led to a training regime focused on strengthening weak spots and preventing injuries. It would certainly be in keeping with the way CR approaches things in general (e.g. apparently in the week before a match he isn't happy until he's phoned John Kingston and had a detailed discussion on how to get one up on his opposite number)

Ozzy3213 wrote:I'm not sure why people are getting quite so childish here. Questioning whether Sam Warbutons body can stand up to the rigours of the professional game is perfectly valid considering the amount of time he has spent out injured since the world cup last year. It may well be that it is simply a case of letting him get completely healed from whatever is ailing him at the moment and then looking at his training and conditioning regime going forwards, however it may also be that his body just can’t take the physicality of the game.

Modern top level rugby is more attritional than it has ever been and this is highlighted by the sheer number of premature retirements through injury over the last 12 months or so. There is every chance that Warburton could become the next Tom Rees, another talented openside whose body just would not let him be the player that his actual talent suggested that he could have been.

"Should Warburton retire" might have something to do with it. Another low level WUM and as a moderator you should officiate this thread.

Has anyone got access to stats regarding Warburton vs Armitage? Just watching, it felt like Armitage outplayed him - tackles, turnovers, carries etc etc.

Look Warburton isnt playing particularly well at the minute, and that is all to do with a bit of bad luck (unrelated knocks) and a need to get him back from those knocks either by the blues or Wales.

The fact he gets those knocks is because his position determines he puts his body in harms way, there isn't a 7 worth his salt who isnt regularly injured, Mccaw was called weak early in his career for getting flattened, stretchered off and knocked totally unconscious.

Warburton seems to be a victim of over trying at the minute, and it isnt helping anyone, he needs to be reintroduced to high level rugby slowly and not thrown back in as he has been recently ie 10 months no rugby then starting V Aus in Aus!!!!!!

mikey_philVIII wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:I'm not sure why people are getting quite so childish here. Questioning whether Sam Warbutons body can stand up to the rigours of the professional game is perfectly valid considering the amount of time he has spent out injured since the world cup last year. It may well be that it is simply a case of letting him get completely healed from whatever is ailing him at the moment and then looking at his training and conditioning regime going forwards, however it may also be that his body just can’t take the physicality of the game.

Modern top level rugby is more attritional than it has ever been and this is highlighted by the sheer number of premature retirements through injury over the last 12 months or so. There is every chance that Warburton could become the next Tom Rees, another talented openside whose body just would not let him be the player that his actual talent suggested that he could have been.

"Should Warburton retire" might have something to do with it. Another low level WUM and as a moderator you should officiate this thread.

And perhaps you should concentrate on contributing to the debate rather than attempting to fuel another round of petty bickering when the debate has actually moved on and is being conducted sensibly. Just a thought.

Ozzy - if you have moderated this thread then I offer you my sincere apologies. I didn't read any comments before they got removed. Well done for getting a discussion going.

Poorfour wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maybe its his training regime or his style of game. Like with Wilko, he himself admitted his training regime bordered on obsessive and we all knew u=in his pomp he put his body in places to other No10 would dream of.

In Jonny's case, there was also an issue with playing in an environment where a) he had limited protection from his pack, b) he was needed to play as soon as possible after injury and c) the weather was frequently miserable. It's notable how much fitter he's been since he's gone to the south of France, where the pack is monstrous, the weather nice and they have multiple international FHs on the books (and frequently field 3 in the same XV)...

But why is it that Warburton gets injured a lot whereas, say, Robshaw - who plays the same position with at least the same intensity, and by all accounts has a similarly obsessive approach to training - has missed perhaps half a dozen games through injury in the last 5 years (albeit having had two seasons out through injury early in his career)?

I think you've answered the question yourself. A) limited protection from a rubbish Blues pack, b) being constantly rushed back to club and international games (e.g. Summer tour, 6N, etc. sometimes without a gentle build up. Straight back into international rugby on a few occasions for Sam), c) weather is frequently miserable in Cardiff. Same set of circumstances that you suggest affected Wilkinson.

Maybe a move to France could be the answer for Sam!

[quote="Griff"]

Poorfour wrote:Maybe a move to France could be the answer for Sam!

It would be, except that Steffon Armitage would go for him in training ;-)