Trump International Golf Links

by EmmDee57 Mon 22 Oct 2012, 9:14 am

First topic message reminder :

Very interesting documentary worth watching was on BBC2 last night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nln7g/Youve_Been_Trumped/

After watching it, I have no urge to play there after what that man has done to the local people. Nor did it put the local police in a good light either.

by Bob_the_Job Mon 10 Dec 2012, 9:11 am

McLaren wrote:
Mods - whats with pi55ed off being filtered. Are 5 year olds the new target audience? The old insert mark up into the middle of a filtered word also seems to be failing at the moment. Get it sorted, we all need the minor swear now and again.

How rude.

Dear Mods, we know you carry out a thankless task, unpaid and in your own time. We believe the majority of people on the board are adults (note I didn't use the word "mature"), so we'd greatly appreciate it if you could have a look at the swear filter to see if some minor bad language can be permitted, allowing members with limited vocabularies to express their seemingly endless ire. Thanks in advance.

by Doon the Water Mon 10 Dec 2012, 11:08 am

JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:I know I have posted this before but whenever Trump pipes up with another idiotic comment I like to have a little laugh it his expense again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9mzJhvC-8E

I can only hope I would behave in the same manner as Forbes should a similar situation arise in my life. He acted in a way which we should all respect greatly.

Actually I think Seth Meyers did a better job on him...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Km4R377s4M

You can tell Meyers got much more under Trumps skin than Obama did when you hear Trumps response on another clip...quite amusing....like I've consistently said right from the start of this thread, I don't like the the guy or the way he operates.

Makes you wonder why Trump attended....ego bigger than his wallet?

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 10 Dec 2012, 3:43 pm

Bob_the_Job wrote:
McLaren wrote:
Mods - whats with pi55ed off being filtered. Are 5 year olds the new target audience? The old insert mark up into the middle of a filtered word also seems to be failing at the moment. Get it sorted, we all need the minor swear now and again.

How rude.

Dear Mods, we know you carry out a thankless task, unpaid and in your own time. We believe the majority of people on the board are adults (note I didn't use the word "mature"), so we'd greatly appreciate it if you could have a look at the swear filter to see if some minor bad language can be permitted, allowing members with limited vocabularies to express their seemingly endless ire. Thanks in advance.

by McLaren Tue 11 Dec 2012, 2:32 am

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/boycott-donald-trump-course-urges-top-golf-writer-bill-elliott-1-2684818

Bill Elliot, a golf monthly editor, has vowed never to set foot on trumpton and suggests all golfers should join him in this boycott. He came to this conclusion after watching the "you've been trumpted" documentary. He accepts this may have been a little one sided, but even from this view the evidence for unacceptable practices by the trump organisation was clear. Also being strong enough to warrant a boycott.

This is an important step in the fight against trump as this is no guardian type call for avoiding the course but a call from the most main stream of sources.

It seems there is an ever dwindling number of golfers who think it is acceptable to play trumpton.

by super_realist Tue 11 Dec 2012, 8:22 am

Who cares what this no mark thinks? Just because he's a golf writer doesn't mean we should pay any attention to him and his views don't carry anymore weight because of the fact he calls himself a golf magazine editor.

I'll decide if I want to play it, I won't be told whether I should or should not play it by some hacker regardless of whether he does the worthless job of editing a tawdry monthly rag. .

I would hardly say the numbers are dwindling Mac either.

Elliots opinions are also not being endorsed by The Scotsman (doesn't their website look like an amateurish blog by the way) they are merely reporting the editorial of Elliot, no doubt taken from the latest edition of Golf Monthly. Not exactly what you'd call journalism either by Elliot or The Scotsman.

by JAS Tue 11 Dec 2012, 9:03 am

Judging by the law of supply and demand, the development is doing well enough for them to raise prices. Feel free to protest as much as you can and scare people away Mac so that he feels he needs to drop his prices!! You don't want Super and I paying top dollar do you?? Wink

by McLaren Tue 11 Dec 2012, 11:22 am

JAS wrote:Judging by the law of supply and demand, the development is doing well enough for them to raise prices. Feel free to protest as much as you can and scare people away Mac so that he feels he needs to drop his prices!! You don't want Super and I paying top dollar do you?? ;)

Jas, not sure I want you to pay more fees but the urge to see super pay top whack for my green fee when I cash in on the round he offered me out weighs that. Although I am still waiting on the round at the castle course he promised me as well.

by super_realist Tue 11 Dec 2012, 11:27 am

Mac, you might get your round at The Castle next year. Don't know if you can get a bus from Edinburgh there though.

by gaelgowfer Sat 15 Dec 2012, 10:38 am

Boy, he sure hates it when he can't get his own way 'don't' he? He thrives on publicity, good, bad or indifferent but, he aint getting any younger and if he doesn't calm down a bit, he's going to explode ...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/donald-trump-sick-for-using-lockerbie-in-a-rant-against-wind-farms-1-2693006

Can't say I'm too keen on wind farms either but .. has to be better than frickin' fracking!

by super_realist Sat 15 Dec 2012, 10:46 am

Gael, what's wrong with fracking?

by Doon the Water Sat 15 Dec 2012, 3:58 pm

Trump was totally out of his depth at that enquiry.
He did not have one jot of evidence to back up his claims.

He just kept saying that he was a tourism expert.

by gaelgowfer Sat 15 Dec 2012, 4:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Gael, what's wrong with fracking?

Absolutely nothing ... if you like flames coming out of yer tap!

by super_realist Sat 15 Dec 2012, 4:22 pm

Typical sensationalism. Hardly ever happens and like everything, there is always the scope for a few problems, just as there are with Windfarms, Hydro Electric or any other type of renewable.

How do people think Oil and Gas comes out of a reservoir without fracking?

by gaelgowfer Sat 15 Dec 2012, 4:35 pm

super_realist wrote:Typical sensationalism. Hardly ever happens and like everything, there is always the scope for a few problems, just as there are with Windfarms, Hydro Electric or any other type of renewable.

How do people think Oil and Gas comes out of a reservoir without fracking?

Speaking of water, aren't water tables also under threat of being polluted? Seems to me government is desperately looking for a way to import less russian gas and, if it causes inconvenience to a few local residents ... tough.

by super_realist Sat 15 Dec 2012, 4:45 pm

It shouldn't inconvenience anyone Gael. The Wytch Farm field in Dorset doesn't bother anyone, in fact most don't know it's even there and it's the biggest on shore field in W Europe. Every single one of those wells were fracked and so is every well all over the world, on and off shore. Oil and Gas is held in rocks, there are no underground lakes of oil that you drill into a let it flow out.

No reason why ground water should be affected at all.

If the resource is there, and it can be gotten at safely with minimum disruption then why not? I doubt you'll complain if you get lower gas bills.

by puligny Sat 15 Dec 2012, 9:06 pm

Super - that's really interesting. Why is a distinction drawn between fracking and other forms of drilling?
You're correct on Wytch Farm. Hardly seen, though some would say it spoils the view from the Isle of Purbeck to Poole Harbour, but generally the 'nodding donkeys' are regarded as quaint. Of course nobody lives in the immediate vicinity.

by super_realist Sun 16 Dec 2012, 7:44 am

Puligny, every well is fracked either by shockwave or high pressure propant (sand and water) I think peoples perception is that you drill into some sort of underground lake and it just flows out Beverly hillbilly style., you don't. It's all held in rocks and unless porosity and pressure are both ridiculously (which it never is these days) high it needs a hand to be extracted.

I visited Wytch Farm a few months ago as my company has a share in the licence, its not a massive operation these days but they're still drilling there and nobody would know. I imagine that in Lancashire they'd do it in the same way. As usual the media and green lobby are making something out of nothing. I think there is something like 40,000 gas wells in America like what will be drilled in Lancashire and only a handful have caused any problems.

by Doon the Water Sun 16 Dec 2012, 8:16 am

I am all in favour of fracking so long as they keep it in Lancs.

by puligny Sun 16 Dec 2012, 8:55 am

Super thanks for that. I had assumed there was a much greater distinction between the processes, otherwise why describe them so differently? I suspect process in Lancs will be a little closer to a lot of people's front doors.
Have you played Isle of Purbeck GC? Beautiful course with fascinating history in terms of ownership,but not the best condition. Big lobby to return it to nature and do away with golf.
Doon - it is potentially a little closer to home for me in Hampshire. Site already identified in Sussex, and many more closer by. I suspect it will be coming to a town near you in time!

by super_realist Sun 16 Dec 2012, 3:22 pm

I haven't played it, bit I have seen it. Looks nice, in fact its a beautiful place down there.
I agree about the lancs issue though, I suspect its a bit of nimbyism, doubt they would care if it was far away but they've been drawn into the hype around it and think their house will be shaken to the ground.
It's probably the most technologically advanced industry around outside of the space industry, I'm sure they can do this without many serious issues arising.

by McLaren Sun 16 Dec 2012, 9:46 pm

It's probably the most technologically advanced industry around outside of the space industry, I'm sure they can do this without many serious issues arising.

You mean like they managed to do it in the gulf of mexico without any serious issues arising?

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 16 Dec 2012, 10:25 pm

Many? Any? What's an 'm' between friends?

by super_realist Sun 16 Dec 2012, 10:30 pm

McLaren wrote:
It's probably the most technologically advanced industry around outside of the space industry, I'm sure they can do this without many serious issues arising.

You mean like they managed to do it in the gulf of mexico without any serious issues arising?

Mac, stop being a half-wit. Accidents happen in anything which relies upon incredible technology, from your beloved F1 to the Space Programme.

There have been hundreds and thousands of wells drilled the world over, the failure rate is spectacularly low, one of the safest, most regulated industries in the entire world. Without it, how would you get the bus to the course?

by thedamned3putt Mon 17 Dec 2012, 11:15 am

super_realist wrote: It's probably the most technologically advanced industry around outside of the space industry,...

Ahead of semi-conductors, telecoms, military technology, computers, airliner development...?

Just because you work in the industry doesn't preclude you from taking an objective viewpoint occasionally.

by super_realist Mon 17 Dec 2012, 11:50 am

Damned, I don't think you know enough about the industry. When you can drill a well 10k down and 30km horizontally to within a metre of the target, through extreme temperatures which melt almost anything and pressure which would kill anything through almost impossible geology then you are looking at something which requires phenominal technology. Some wells cost in excess of 200m to drill, you can't do that with a Black and Decker. Just because it's a physical and industrial looking activitity don't think it isn't advanced.

I do take an objective view, but it's because I work in the industry I know how advanced it is. I get what you are saying about the others, but airliners aside I don't see anything coming near to it.

by Doon the Water Mon 17 Dec 2012, 12:20 pm

puligny wrote:Super thanks for that. I had assumed there was a much greater distinction between the processes, otherwise why describe them so differently? I suspect process in Lancs will be a little closer to a lot of people's front doors.
Have you played Isle of Purbeck GC? Beautiful course with fascinating history in terms of ownership,but not the best condition. Big lobby to return it to nature and do away with golf.
Doon - it is potentially a little closer to home for me in Hampshire. Site already identified in Sussex, and many more closer by. I suspect it will be coming to a town near you in time!

Swop you a fracking site for a nuclear sub site.

by puligny Mon 17 Dec 2012, 2:16 pm

Doon - I'll stick thanks! You look after it now!

by thedamned3putt Mon 17 Dec 2012, 4:10 pm

super_realist wrote: airliners aside I don't see anything coming near to it.

not a nuclear sub? not the nano-precision of a semi-conductor wafer? the ability to pack my phone, the servers, the satellites, the infrastructure and the software with enough tech to make it possible for me to make a face-to-face call from my moble with my bro-in-law in washington, dc?

i appreciate it's pretty hi-tech but it is not second only to space. £200M is spent on a lot of big, heavy industry and a small amount of tech, be honest.

personally, i'd cite semi-conductor technology as the most advanced industry in the world. it's their technology that makes everything else possible and i mean everything, including your drills hitting their metre-wide target. (and yes, i did work in the semi-conductor industry)

by super_realist Mon 17 Dec 2012, 4:29 pm

I'm sure it's all very complicated and on a par, I wasn't trying to set up a pi$$ing up the wall contest, just that its incredibly high tech and that people like the residents of Lancashire think it's just a bunch of rednecks drilling random holes, I'm sure semi conductors play a part, but there's technology in addition to that making it a much wider event, but yes it's at least as complicated as a nuclear sub or a semi conductor. It actually requires space grade equipment to protect the equipment in certain HPHT fields.

by thedamned3putt Mon 17 Dec 2012, 6:59 pm

sorry, kind of hijacked the thead. should really shift this over to drive's other stuff one... on the odd occasions that i watch tv, i love some of the 'massive stuff' programs on discovery and there was an amazing one about N sea rigs and the whole exploration thing.

right, back to this 'ere golf course. i might play it if it passes out of trump's ownership.

hopefully the windfarm will go ahead, trump will abandon the entire overblown scheme in a massive hair-sprayed huff and the course will just get a suitably modest clubhouse. we'll come to accept the fact that it's there and at least now, our money isn't going towards funding more of the n0bend's twisted business behaviour.

by gaelgowfer Wed 19 Dec 2012, 1:56 pm

I see that Exxon is hoping to get its grubby little hands on Lancashire's shale gas.

Just how does this particular industry get rid of its toxic waste without polluting neighbouring water supplies and, has anyone told Exxon!?

by super_realist Wed 19 Dec 2012, 4:33 pm

Why wouldn't they want to get their hands on it? They are the worlds biggest oil company and have a lot of specialism in unconventionals, so I'm pretty sure they don't need to be told anything by the likes of you.

As for "toxic" waste. Which toxic waste would that be? Fracking propant is 99% inert (water and sand) and as for polluting local water supplies, the majority of potable water in Lancashire comes from Reservoirs, not ground water, whilst ground water is protected by the structural geology.

by gaelgowfer Thu 20 Dec 2012, 11:42 am

Fracking propant is 99% inert (water and sand)

... and the other 1% super-dunce?

by super_realist Thu 20 Dec 2012, 11:51 am

Gael, there's only one dunce round here and it isn't me. Don't try and get into an argument about my industry with me because you'll lose, You know nothing about it and appear to have swallowed all ecomaniac soundbites.

There is absolutely no reason why fracking would contaminate ground water.
Yes, there might be some chemmicals and acid used in fracking, but so what, it's in rock layers hundreds or thousands of metres under the ground. Any contamination will only be in the pore spaces of the shale, which will never ever be needed or see the light of day.

by gaelgowfer Thu 20 Dec 2012, 3:09 pm

Yes, there might be some chemmicals and acid used in fracking ...

You lied super-dunce. Even a lie by omission is still a lie.

Well, if I'm a dunce then so are 19 USA State legislatures ...

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/energyhome/fracking-update-what-states-are-doing.aspx

While some argue that more oversight is necessary to protect public health and the environment, others believe that it’s already adequately regulated. At the federal level, hydraulic fracturing is exempt from the underground injection control program requirements set forth in the Safe Drinking Water Act.

Oh and you'll never guess under whose stewardship the decision not to impose appropriate environmental controls was ... that old rogue Dubya!

And then of course, there are carbon emissions to consider ...

by super_realist Thu 20 Dec 2012, 3:41 pm

Gael, you really are ghastly aren't you. I really really pity your husband. He must be a very patient or very deaf man.

I didn't lie, I said fracking was 99% inert, I thought even a frumpy old housewife would infer that the other 1% might not be.

You can't make an omelette without cracking an egg. Even the happy clappy hippy alternatives require carbon emissions and use vast amounts of resources and energy to create their so called green energy. So if a little bit of chemical encouragement is required in the fracking process , who cares. It's hundreds or thousands of metres below the surface and there is an infintesimal ly small risk of any contamination occurring.

There is no such thing as free energy but unconventionals like shale gas provide alternatives to conventional sources like oil and coal which are becoming less financially viable to extract.

I actually couldn't care less about your Mac style sourced evidence. We aren't in America, and so their rules to not apply to us in the UK or Europe.

It seems that people like you believe there are actually open reservoirs of water in there like a subterranean Windermere just waiting to become polluted.

Nothing is 100% safe, Fracking no exeption, but all efforts are put into making it as safe as possible, and our government also has granted approval. So like your trivial tedious objections to Trump's course you can stick it in your pipe (which you no doubt have) and smoke it.

by Bob_the_Job Thu 20 Dec 2012, 3:49 pm

I'd have thought the oil and gas the that gets replaced would have been considered more of a "pollutant" - just a naturally occuring one. But I know shag all about it really. Other than we need the oil and gas to sustain society until something better comes along.

by super_realist Thu 20 Dec 2012, 3:55 pm

In a nut shell Bob, the propant (Water, sand and acid if required) is injected under high pressure into the shale creating cracks and fissures for the gas to move along and escape up the well shaft.

Gael as usual is getting her capacious "hearing aid beige" girdle in a twist about absolutely nothing.

by Bob_the_Job Thu 20 Dec 2012, 3:58 pm

I'll take your word for it.. I just pay for it at the pumps or in the gas bill.

by super_realist Thu 20 Dec 2012, 4:05 pm

Bob_the_Job wrote:I'll take your word for it.. I just pay for it at the pumps or in the gas bill.

Exactly, people are so holier than thou about Oil and Gas, but unless they live in a mud hut somewhere, don't work, don't eat and don't drink then they are totally reliant on it, these people are also the first to complain about price hikes, but at the same time complain when someone finds a massive field on their doorstep.

Anyway, it keeps me in a good job, so if people want to be hypocrites about it, I don't care, I'll keep picking up the annual bonus.

by gaelgowfer Thu 20 Dec 2012, 8:12 pm

Another bile-induced rant. You're consistent; I'll give you that super-dunce.

by kwinigolfer Fri 21 Dec 2012, 1:10 am

Fracking banned in the Green Mountain State, cause of much angst in many other States, especially New York.

by JAS Fri 21 Dec 2012, 4:26 am

Forgive me for being all ALOHA chilled out but....I see no bile induced rant, what you on about Gael?

by McLaren Fri 21 Dec 2012, 5:25 am

Weird you should mention the green mountain state kwini, I am currently wearing a t-shirt with "green mountain state" emblazoned on it.

Super, next you will be claiming oil sands as a green source of energy. You have clearly been indoctrinated by your industry to the point where you have lost all perspective. For this reason whatever expertise you may have - and I suspect little - is not worth listening too. Never has anything been as trouble free as you proclaim fracking to be, it is rather insulting actually that you think you could spout such rubbish on here and have us believe a word of it.

by super_realist Fri 21 Dec 2012, 9:03 am

Mac considering you have never been bold enough to reveal what you do for a living we can assume nothing particularly important and your only source of information is taken from sources which agree with your lily livered opinion its safe to assume you have zero experience in this field.

I have never said shale gas is green, but its actually not bad at all when you look at the process. The very nature of extracting any hydrocarbon is never going to be fully green. All I'm saying is that hypocrites like Gael and yourself know nothing about the industry, swallow everything they read but at the same time use the product every day.

In essence there is very little wrong with fracking and as you haven't even revealed your concerns about it, why don't you just keep quiet and finish your lentil burger.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 21 Dec 2012, 11:33 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Fracking banned in the Green Mountain State, cause of much angst in many other States, especially New York.

Just out of interest, do you think people in those states would happily take advantage of the reduced energy costs that are coming into play via fracking Kwini? Or do you think they'd want to carry on paying higher prices and let everyone else pay less?

by super_realist Fri 21 Dec 2012, 11:50 am

I imagine that each state makes a decision based on the geology they have, some states will have zero problems from fracking, others might have some issues.

Doesn't mean it's a bad practice, just depends on what you have underneath you, but yes, no one is going to turn down cheaper fuel are they?

by kwinigolfer Fri 21 Dec 2012, 11:53 am

nbs,
There are extensive fracking operations in New York State which seem to be going ahead relentlessly despite ever increasing concerns.
Can't pretend to be able to articulate all of them, but they're a boon to the economy of rural areas of the State, while at the same time being criticized for creating some instability in the ground (prevalence of earth tremors further west in Ohio attributed to the frackers), scarring of the landscape and the heavy-handed way commercial interests are now appropriating farmland.

There is a band of shale in VT that would be a promising source for fracking interests but any development now prohibited by State government.
Was at a City Council hearing on Monday night which passed a resolution to deny the extension of a pipeline carrying tar sand product from Montreal to Maine through a part of VT - it may not prevent the pipeline being built but this is a cradle of environmental protectionism. Still ridiculously low petrol prices and, perversely, an ATM for cartels of fuel distributors as well!

by McLaren Thu 17 Jan 2013, 1:44 pm

bugger me, what a real shame.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4748353/New-19th-hole-at-Donald-Trumps-golf-course.html

by super_realist Thu 17 Jan 2013, 1:51 pm

Love how it says "huge swath", in reality it's about 10 square yards maximum.

How come you are reading the "cretin" paper anyway Mac, fallen on hard times? Guardian sold out?

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