Questions for Munster moving forward

First topic message reminder :

- Has emerging loose head prop David Kilcoyne done enough to retain his starting place over his more experienced South African colleague Wian du Preez.

- At hooker is it Mike Sherry or Damian Varley who should be starting.

- What will the make up of our back row be - We have got Donnacha Ryan, Peter O'Mahony, Niall Ronan, CJ Stander, Tommy O'Donnell, Paddy Butler, Sean Dougall, Dave O'Callaghan and James Coughlan to choose from. It is very hard to choose from.

- Ian Keatley or Ronan O'Gara? Or both with Keatley playing as a fullback. Obviously with O'Gara injured Keatley is getting a good run with youngster JJ Hanrahan getting the chance for game time too.

- Keith Earls - he has to play somewhere but where? On the left wing? With Laulala in the centre? With Downey in the centre? At fullback?

- Are Laulala and Earls too similar to play in the centre. Do we need a big lump like James Downey to give us go forward ball in the backs.

- Fullback - a very very very open position. Keith Earls, Felix Jones, Denis Hurley and Ian Keatley are all real contenders for the starting berth.

Meant to add....you da man...woop woop...

DOD, I'm feicing knackered. Jaysus it'll be weeks before I have the energy to cheer on any of our players after that.

hahaha good man Stag!

Earls isn't a good centre he isn't world class at 13 at international level he is average in that position.

Keep the blinkers on chaps I guess.

He will play there most likely during the AI

Thankfully Pete you don't have any say in either the Munster or Irish selection policy. Stick to tiddlywinks after a while you could try something more challenging...for gods sake don't try anything which requires logic or any form of thinking

Just noticed this clip on rugbydump http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/11/2827/edinburghs-netani-talei-manhandled-over-his-tryline-by-munster#allcomments


What do you feed those boys in Munster???

Its not the food yappy... Talei said before the game that he reckoned Earls wasn't a 13.....

Interesting that you are questioning my logic on the basis of this thread but ah well no getting through to some people I guess

No...it wasn't just your logic I was questioning

Pete, let me get this straight. Yo honestly think that Earls has absolutely NO traits for being a 13? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

I put it to you another way. If Earls was not as good as he is at wing and fullback and was not constantly switched through those positions but played in a settled position at 13. Do you then think that he would develop into a good 13 or would you still think that he had no traits for 13?

Earls incredible diversity and skill in several positions is what has held him back from being an excellent 13... so far.

I don't agree Billy. I am 100% with Pete.

However I think people are taking what Pete is saying the wrong way. He isn't saying Earls is a bad player per se.

Earls for me has maybe 2 useful traits as a centre, pace and he's a good tackler....he's actually quite a good medium- long range passer too.

What he isn't good at, or at least has never demonstrated, is the ability to create space and opportunities for the players around him, especially those outside. He doesn't carry the ball in two hands, his running lines are poor and he doesn't have a short passing game, which is the key thing for a centre more than a long pass (which as DOD pointed out BOD can't do well).

He doesn't play with his head up, his natural instinct is to either put his head down and go for a gap or chip and chase for himself. He often runs outside arcs when he should cut back and straighten cutting down the space for his outside men (this is a problem at Munster generally right now).

Physically he's relatively small and isn't great at breaking through an organised defence and defensively he isn't the powerful front on tackler the way BOD, Trimble, Sexton etc. are meaning he doesn't stop people on the gainline, which is vital for a centre. Defensively he isn't great positionally either. Statistically he make all his tackles but they are mainly side on or cover tackles. He's not a talker or an organiser.

As Pete has illustrated excellently is that he naturally drifts out to the touchlines, waiting for try scoring opportunities....which is fine as a back 3 player but really what you want is your centres coming infield and trying to create things rather than wait for someone else to do it.

Now none of that means Earls isn't a good player. I give you the examples of Christian Cullen and Jason Robinson. Cullen was the best full back ever imo, an ok wing and a poor enough centre. Robinson a brilliant wing/fullback and a poor center. Both could pass, both could kick but despite being two of the most elusive players ever weren't good centres. Why?

Well because they were fantastic broken field runners, with blistering pace and acceleration who thrived in open space and having the freedom to roam around the pitch and pick up mismatches.... to get on the end of opportunties created by others and able to create for themselves. Once moved infield they were able to be marked out of games and there inability to do core centre tasks like take crash ball was exposed, their skills nullified by performing the structured role of a midfielder.

Earls is the same imo and it is immensly frustrating to see him touted as a 13 when there are clearly better players there and he offers much more else where.

There are many kinds of centres Rodders. It is open to a wide range of skill sets. Earls clearly has the ability to deliver from 13.

There are Stag but the output, whether its Gusgott, Tuigamala, Davies, Tuilagi, O'Malley is the essentially the same. They just go a different way about it.

The main role in attack is to create opportunites for the wingers (or themselves), not to try and do the wingers job for them and let someone else do their job, which is what Earls often does.

The fact that Earls is a good finisher and scores tries is not the issue, its the fact that when he isn't, he isn't actually doing very much at all.

Nah the issue is that Earls does a centres work but can also score tries. It means that he gets labelled as a winger. Its the same way that a minority of England fans want to see Tuilagi trialled on the wing.

I agree with Rodders on this one, Earls is a great wing, but and slightly above average Centre, its good he can cover it but I think there are better centers playing in Ireland than Earls.

Just like Bowe, great winger, but slightly above average Centre.

I never like seeing Earls used at 13 for Ireland, think that if he wasn't DK's lovechild we would see someone else there, but DK always has to fit him in somewhere.

He can play center for Munster, and up to H-cup level, but at International level he is average at center, but great on the wing.

Kingshu wrote:I never like seeing Earls used at 13 for Ireland, think that if he wasn't DK's lovechild we would see someone else there, but DK always has to fit him in somewhere.

Right so we're off down that road again are we

Sorry no it isn't stag and all we hear is the same rhetoric from Earls supporters with very little relevant examples to support their claims.

Its all subjective and people are entitled to their opinion but Pete has taken the time to do a really balanced and well researched critique of Earls performances and all people come back with are insults or by twisting or exaggerating what he has said.

If people don't agree then fine but if they want to debate the point then they could at least take the time to read what Pete is actually saying, address his points and examples and come back with relevant counterpoints.

Where are all these examples of Earls doing a centers job? Do people have a different view on what role a center should play? Stats and isolated you tube clips of tries don't really prove a lot so can someone please point me to the games where he has put in stand out performances in midfield, because I've been following Earls career for the last 5 seasons or so and haven't really seen many, if any of these at all, and none at international level.

Cheers.

Well he has limited enough appearances at centre but I can give you three without any Googling or research just ones that stuck in my mind.

Munster v Ospreys - Earls at 13 - quarter final

Ireland v Wales - Earls at 13 - six nations

Munster v Dragons - Earls at 13 - celtic league

Earls got man of match in all 3 games. He has done very well in other matches such as Northampton v Munster where he was instrumental in setting up some of our tries.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Ealrs doesn't really have the brain for centre in my opinion, he is improving in that department but often makes the wrong decisions there, the fact that we are talking and not agreeing shows a massive problem that nobody in Ireland knows where to use him best.

I think he would make a good full back to be honest, has impressed me any time he has played there.

May I suggest that there is something wrong with your own brain power. The problem that Earls has is that some people can't stomack that he is an exceptionally talented rugby player who can play anywhere in the outside back. As most people are used to players who are just about adequate in one position, they are unable to comprehend a multi-position player as its so out of the norm.

What you see as not 'having the brain' is in fact the odd error because he is always being moved around the place.
As for playing fullback - he is excellent there - but he played once there in the last year.

So according to your analysis a Munster fan can't stomach his own players being 'exceptionally talented'? Oh Sin, you really are the light of my life. Brian O'Driscoll is exceptionally talented. Richie McCaw is exceptionally talented. Keith Earls is some guy who can't even get in the Munster team. I'd love him to be anywhere near as good as you think. But he isn't. Good wing, average centre. If Earls is 'excellent' at fullback despite just one game then Ian Henderson is the best backrow in Europe. Scratch that. Best in the world baby!

red_stag wrote:Well he has limited enough appearances at centre but I can give you three without any Googling or research just ones that stuck in my mind.

Munster v Ospreys - Earls at 13 - quarter final

Ireland v Wales - Earls at 13 - six nations

Munster v Dragons - Earls at 13 - celtic league

Earls got man of match in all 3 games. He has done very well in other matches such as Northampton v Munster where he was instrumental in setting up some of our tries.

Jesus Stag that Ireland vs Wales match is the only thing your lot have to hang your hat on at international level. I've read three reports out of interest and two of them gave more plaudits to another than Earls- Tomas O'Leary. Yeah, that guy. Come on Stag, be real. That was 2010. I hate to break it to you, its now 2012. Earls hasn't got one bit better in that time. Some of it, maybe even most of it is down to Kidney, Munster and selection. But therein lies the frustration with Earls. These 'great performances' that Munster fans talk about, all these Youtube clips that are put up show that he can do it. The reality is he is inconsistent and doesn't do it often enough. I'd love Earls to be able to do it week in, week out for Ireland and Munster (not against us though!) so Ireland actually have the best players possible. He doesn't do it.

I'd love Earls to play centre week in week out.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Jesus Stag that Ireland vs Wales match is the only thing your lot have to hang your hat on.

Nice to see the parochial nature out and about

red_stag wrote:Well he has limited enough appearances at centre but I can give you three without any Googling or research just ones that stuck in my mind.

Munster v Ospreys - Earls at 13 - quarter final

Ireland v Wales - Earls at 13 - six nations

Munster v Dragons - Earls at 13 - celtic league

Earls got man of match in all 3 games. He has done very well in other matches such as Northampton v Munster where he was instrumental in setting up some of our tries.

Stag

Ok if we are thinking of the same games..

Munster v Dragons (this season?) yes good performance but Munster were on the front foot all game, Zebo and Keatley were the main architects but Earls had a hand in a few of the tries if I remember rightly. Fair enough.

Which Ireland v Wales game? Earls was missing this year wasn't he? The one were he came on and finished off two close range tries in 2010? Not sure I'd take much from that.

Munster v Ospreys (Rabo?)... Munster were battered up front and got things totally wrong against the Ospreys blitz defence in the backs, played totally into their hands. Not sure what positives you are getting there?

I don't see how anyone could conclude from those that this guy is a top centre? Some other examples of recent performances and my view on them:

v All blacks test 1 .... struggled to link with O'Driscoll, mis read a few rap arounds and did'nt link well with BOD and Sexton. Midfield much more creative in second test with Sexton -D'arcy - BOD and ROG - BOD - Sexton.

6 Nation v England. Made a great break but butchered the try by not spotting Bowe coming on his inside. Hard to judge given the mess up front.

RWC: Finished off well in games he played but quiet otherwise. 3 tries came directly from Trimble coming inside and him drifting to the wing. Sean Fitzpatrick said after the Italy game that he looked a decent wing but not a centre.

Warm ups: Skinned by Tuilagi from set piece play after getting in the wrong defensive position early on. Shackled Tuilagi well otherwise but not a day for the backs.

red_stag wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Jesus Stag that Ireland vs Wales match is the only thing your lot have to hang your hat on.

Nice to see the parochial nature out and about

Sorry Stag, but since it's some of Munster's parochial junto that keep blindly defending him then that's perfectly accurate. If Earls was from Ulster I'd be saying exactly the same thing, much as I don't believe both Marshalls should be near the Irish squad. But sure, I'm just picking on poor wee Munster.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
Sorry Stag, but since it's some of Munster's parochial junto that keep blindly defending him then that's perfectly accurate. If Earls was from Ulster I'd be saying exactly the same thing, much as I don't believe both Marshalls should be near the Irish squad. But sure, I'm just picking on poor wee Munster.

Hookies a traitor! Burn him!

Hookies not getting enough of a rise from Sin E and is looking for bigger bait

Rodders, in fairness to Earls against New Zealand I thought BOD had one of his worst games in a green shirt that day. It didn't help that Earls also had two clueless wings playing outside of him. Especially McFadden, Zebo's was just very inexperienced as most times I've seen him his defence looks pretty good.

red_stag wrote:Hookies not getting enough of a rise from Sin E and is looking for bigger bait

Like Keith Earls himself I've earned my battle scars in the WUM crucible of league IA. I'm now ready to step up to where the big boys plays.

Lets park the Earls debate. Munster have a lot of talking points moving forward.

For example: Sean Dougall, Niall Ronan, Peter O'Mahony, David O'Callaghan, Tommy O'Donnell, James Coughlan, Paddy Butler, CJ Stander.

Is there are clear cut backrow in there. You've got no real standout guys in there - could be so many different combos.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Rodders, in fairness to Earls against New Zealand I thought BOD had one of his worst games in a green shirt that day. It didn't help that Earls also had two clueless wings playing outside of him. Especially McFadden, Zebo's was just very inexperienced as most times I've seen him his defence looks pretty good.

No I don't agree with that Hookie but to debate it would be off topic...this thread is about slagging off Earls...

Yes McFadden was a disaster that day too and watching him and Earls try and organise the defence is like watching the blind leading the blind.... they follow the ball like a puppy chasing a one of those squeeky toy things....

In fairness McFadden redeemed himself a wee bit in the second test and Zebo gets a free pass for his first test.

red_stag wrote:Lets park the Earls debate. Munster have a lot of talking points moving forward.

For example: Sean Dougall, Niall Ronan, Peter O'Mahony, David O'Callaghan, Tommy O'Donnell, James Coughlan, Paddy Butler, CJ Stander.

Is there are clear cut backrow in there. You've got no real standout guys in there - could be so many different combos.

Hmm not really. O'Mahoney is the guy with the most potential get him in his best postion cough cough no8 cough .... and build a unit around him. Pick a natural openside like Ronan/Dougal and a physical back row who can carry at 6 like O'Callaghan.

Its about balance really but I think much depends on Munsters second row too. Ryan is great around the park and excellent in the lineout but a weak link in the scrum. O'Callaghan is better in the scrum but not as good in the lineout and has the hands of a donkey and pace of a carthorse.

What of our younger second rows:

- Dave Foley
- Ian Nagle
- Billy Holland

Holland looks decent, don't know much about Foley.

Nagle seem to have fallen of the radar. He looks fairly small but intelligent.

You know far more about these lads than me, but you get my point right ... that the best backrow unit depends a lot on the tight 5 so its hard to answer.

I think Munsters priority is their set piece and tight 5. It's where the better teams will attack them and where they will loose games regardless of who is in the backrow, half back and centres.

Yes we are starting to (closing the door after the horse has bolted mind you) finally make a real effort to develop props.

Kilcoyne has come on leaps and bounds over last while. B&I Cup has been invaluable as has him getting exposure in key games (playoffs last year and HEC this year).

We have sent our young props Alan Cotter and John Ryan both over to the Premiership on short term loan deals and there has been a real effort to get game time to Stephen Archer even when Botha is fit.

I actually think...and you know I am no scrummaging expert ..... that a lot of Munsters scrum issues come from the second row.

If you look at Munsters locks they are all fairly lightweight compared to the top sides,especially Ryan. Its very rare to see a TH side second row under 18st now.

Schmidt is very big on it, which is why Hines was replaced by Thorn and why he is after another lock. He understands the importance of having a scrummaging specialist bind down behind Ross.

Notice that Toner usually comes in behind VDW rather than Healy too.

Ulster have Touhy whos 18st plus and Stevenson whos even bigger to come in alongside the lighter Muller.

Wales, Scotland and England have massive second rows too.

Munster (and consequently Ireland) are a bit underpowered in the second row right now imo and too much focus is on the props.

rodders wrote:Sorry no it isn't stag and all we hear is the same rhetoric from Earls supporters with very little relevant examples to support their claims.

Its all subjective and people are entitled to their opinion but Pete has taken the time to do a really balanced and well researched critique of Earls performances and all people come back with are insults or by twisting or exaggerating what he has said.

Pete complained that Earls was out on the wing for one of Trimble's try. Course he hasn't copped that if Trimble is in off his wing, someone needs to go out and mind it.

In the same clip he didn't comment on Rory Best running in a try out on the wing with Ferris on his outside to support him!

If people don't agree then fine but if they want to debate the point then they could at least take the time to read what Pete is actually saying, address his points and examples and come back with relevant counterpoints.

Munster's attack improved dramatically when Earls came back into the side instead of Casey (who was selected by Penney at 12). There was nothing wrong with the defence either.

Where are all these examples of Earls doing a centers job? Do people have a different view on what role a center should play? Stats and isolated you tube clips of tries don't really prove a lot so can someone please point me to the games where he has put in stand out performances in midfield, because I've been following Earls career for the last 5 seasons or so and haven't really seen many, if any of these at all, and none at international level.

First of all he has 7 international caps at centre out of his 30 odd. Look Have a look any BOD highlights - mostly of him scoring trys.

I just did a search for Darren Cave highlights and all you get are his trys.

It seems that Whiff of Cordite (who rate Earls as a centre) are going to do a blog on him next week. I'm sure they will have plenty of examples.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Ealrs doesn't really have the brain for centre in my opinion, he is improving in that department but often makes the wrong decisions there, the fact that we are talking and not agreeing shows a massive problem that nobody in Ireland knows where to use him best.

I think he would make a good full back to be honest, has impressed me any time he has played there.

May I suggest that there is something wrong with your own brain power. The problem that Earls has is that some people can't stomack that he is an exceptionally talented rugby player who can play anywhere in the outside back. As most people are used to players who are just about adequate in one position, they are unable to comprehend a multi-position player as its so out of the norm.

What you see as not 'having the brain' is in fact the odd error because he is always being moved around the place.
As for playing fullback - he is excellent there - but he played once there in the last year.

So according to your analysis a Munster fan can't stomach his own players being 'exceptionally talented'? Oh Sin, you really are the light of my life. Brian O'Driscoll is exceptionally talented. Richie McCaw is exceptionally talented. Keith Earls is some guy who can't even get in the Munster team. I'd love him to be anywhere near as good as you think. But he isn't. Good wing, average centre. If Earls is 'excellent' at fullback despite just one game then Ian Henderson is the best backrow in Europe. Scratch that. Best in the world baby!

Hookie, you clearly haven't a clue about Munster. Ever wonder why Munster has two bases (one in Cork & one in Limerick) and it sings The Fields of Athenry and not the "Banks", "Slievenamon" or "Limerick Your a Lady". Its regarded as a miracle that players from different counties will play rugby with each other, so you shouldn't be surprised if Munster fans don't always agree with each other.

Your clearly clueless if you think Earls can't get in the Munster team. 28 European caps and he started all of them. 44 Magners, 6 from the bench (and that was mostly when coming back like how he came off the bench for the Ulster game recently, and within 20 minutes had made and scored a try in Ravenhill - so much for Darren Cave's defence - his first game since last July).

Thanks sin. Fair point on Earls standing out on the wing for Trimbles try. Doesn't prove much without context.. however if you watch the games you will see he does it a lot in attack and defense...

Re the hilights that is my point - they alone prove nothing but the fact that people struggle to reel of examples where Earls had big influential games speaks volumes.

I can remember Trimbles motm performance against Scotland in 2008, Austalia 2006. D'arcy against England and Scotland in 2004. BODs numerous big games- Conrad Smith, Frank Bunce, Jeremy Gusgott, Tana Umaga, Alan Tait, Will Carling (v Scotland in 1997) , Jon Davies, Tom Shanklin, Alan Bateman, jeebus even Phil De Glanville - like I could go on forever. I've seen big 80 min performance from them all, where they've really influenced the game.

I just struggle to think of big games Earls has had to warrant this view that some have that he is not just an international standard centre, but that centre is even his best position at all.

rodders wrote:I can remember Trimbles motm performance against Scotland in 2008, Austalia 2006. D'arcy against England and Scotland in 2004. BODs numerous big games- Conrad Smith, Frank Bunce, Jeremy Gusgott, Tana Umaga, Alan Tait, Will Carling (v Scotland in 1997) , Jon Davies, Tom Shanklin, Alan Bateman, jeebus even Phil De Glanville - like I could go on forever. I've seen big 80 min performance from them all, where they've really influenced the game.

I just struggle to think of big games Earls has had to warrant this view that some have that he is not just an international standard centre, but that centre is even his best position at all.

I think BOD has started one of his 120+ games at 12, the rest have been at 13.

Going into the NZ tests Earls had been playing 13 for Munster, then he gets to play 15 against the Babas, 12 against the ABs (1st test) and Wing for 3rd test! He was one of the better players in the 6Ns when he got a run of a couple of games. The draw in Paris wasn't a bad result considering that everyone was predicting that he would be marmalised by Rougerie. He kept Tualagi in his box as well.

Sin é wrote:
Your clearly clueless if you think Earls can't get in the Munster team. 28 European caps and he started all of them. 44 Magners, 6 from the bench (and that was mostly when coming back like how he came off the bench for the Ulster game recently, and within 20 minutes had made and scored a try in Ravenhill - so much for Darren Cave's defence - his first game since last July).

Again that is simply not true. Laulua and Howlett created overlap and Hurley made the break and delivered the scoring pass. Earls ran a good inside line and finished well but to say Earls made the try, or was even key to creating it is nonsence.

Where was Earls for the remainder of the game when Ulster came back from a big deficit to win the match?

Sin é wrote:
I think BOD has started one of his 120+ games at 12, the rest have been at 13.

Going into the NZ tests Earls had been playing 13 for Munster, then he gets to play 15 against the Babas, 12 against the ABs (1st test) and Wing for 3rd test! He was one of the better players in the 6Ns when he got a run of a couple of games. The draw in Paris wasn't a bad result considering that everyone was predicting that he would be marmalised by Rougerie. He kept Tualagi in his box as well.

BOD played most of the 2004 season at inside centre with D'arcy outside him.

Ian Whitten kept Rougerie quiet down in Clermont last year after playing most of the year on the wing or on the bench. Does that make him one of the most talented players of his generation too?

Bless your cotton socks Sin, making up examples of things that others did to praise Earls. Its sad really. I know plenty about Munster thanks, and I know the fans of the provincial team aren't represented by people of your ilk. Thank goodness.

All you have to offer to this debate is anti-Leinster and anti-Ulster tourettes. I'll give you an example. In this scenario I am a Munster fans with Sin tourettes. And......action!
'Oh, hello Rodders, how are you? Have you been working out, look at the size of those guns you're...JONATHAN SEXTON....packing. Why yes thank you, I have lost some...DARREN CAVE...weight. Thanks for noticing. Unfortunately I am not going to the Edinburgh match tonight as...ANDREW TRIMBLE...SAFFERS...SAFFERS....its my wedding anniversary on Monday'.

All you have to offer when we discuss Earls faults is irrelevant Youtube clips that only reinforce our point that Earls can deliver but does so inconsistently. As I've said before if Earls was on form he'd be a cert in the Irish team for me- on the wing. He excels in broken play. On the other hand in more structured play he doesn't play heads up rugby, he isn't good enough at creating space for others. On the other hand Darren Cave, who you brought into this discussion not me, had been excelling in a better team, outplayed Earls (who played pretty well that day too) when we knocked out out at fortress Thomond. In fact he was in some publications best 13 in the european cup last season, and was also highlighted for his excellent form not not ultimately picked by the Sunday Times and Sky Sports. He's not as quick as Earls, who is? He is certainly not as good a finisher. He he runs good lines, he makes space for others unselfishly. Moreover he is a 13. Earls only thinks he is. But sure, we are only top of the league. He must be terrible!

Ah jaysus poor hookie earned his battle scars in Div 1A of the AIL...too many knocks to the head I would say....thinks Darren Cave is intl level....thats a serious injury.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Your clearly clueless if you think Earls can't get in the Munster team. 28 European caps and he started all of them. 44 Magners, 6 from the bench (and that was mostly when coming back like how he came off the bench for the Ulster game recently, and within 20 minutes had made and scored a try in Ravenhill - so much for Darren Cave's defence - his first game since last July).

Again that is simply not true. Laulua and Howlett created overlap and Hurley made the break and delivered the scoring pass. Earls ran a good inside line and finished well but to say Earls made the try, or was even key to creating it is nonsence.

Where was Earls for the remainder of the game when Ulster came back from a big deficit to win the match?

Look at the full clip again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkW4yZcwVwE

Earls foxed Cave, great offload to Billy Holland, who dragged the Ulster defence to the other side of the pitch, was back in the centre again to pass the ball to Lauala, followed up support and was there to finish it.

Only player to handle the ball 3 times in the move.

Earls was out on the wing It could have been different.

[quote="rodders"]

Sin é wrote:
I think BOD has started one of his 120+ games at 12, the rest have been at 13.

Going into the NZ tests Earls had been playing 13 for Munster, then he gets to play 15 against the Babas, 12 against the ABs (1st test) and Wing for 3rd test! He was one of the better players in the 6Ns when he got a run of a couple of games. The draw in Paris wasn't a bad result considering that everyone was predicting that he would be marmalised by Rougerie. He kept Tualagi in his box as well.

BOD played most of the 2004 season at inside centre with D'arcy outside him.

Ian Whitten kept Rougerie quiet down in Clermont last year after playing most of the year on the wing or on the bench. Does that make him one of the most talented players of his generation too?

OK then, BOD has only about 100 caps at outside centre (generally playing with D'Arcy). Earls has a lot less.

Ulster lost the game against Clermont who have only one won the Top 14 once. France have a better record which suggests that France are a better team than Clermont.

Sin é wrote:
Ulster lost the game against Clermont who have only one won the Top 14 once. France have a better record which suggests that France are a better team than Clermont.

Of course they are but Rougerie can't be better than Rougerie now can he?

"Minding his wing"

What?
When we have the ball?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:"Minding his wing"

What?
When we have the ball?

Well some centres might want to pass out to the wing and would expect someone out there to pass to - Keith Earls might consider himself a better option than Rory Best (but thats a winger for ya

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Ulster lost the game against Clermont who have only one won the Top 14 once. France have a better record which suggests that France are a better team than Clermont.

Of course they are but Rougerie can't be better than Rougerie now can he?

He can be if he is just back being integrated into his club from a world cup final which France lost! Most his time that season was on France duty.

Rory's scored more tries than most of our backs .....

Sin é wrote:
He can be if he is just back being integrated into his club from a world cup final which France lost! Most his time that season was on France duty.

The game was 7 months after the RWC. The man must need a fair bit of intergration