Questions for Munster moving forward

First topic message reminder :

- Has emerging loose head prop David Kilcoyne done enough to retain his starting place over his more experienced South African colleague Wian du Preez.

- At hooker is it Mike Sherry or Damian Varley who should be starting.

- What will the make up of our back row be - We have got Donnacha Ryan, Peter O'Mahony, Niall Ronan, CJ Stander, Tommy O'Donnell, Paddy Butler, Sean Dougall, Dave O'Callaghan and James Coughlan to choose from. It is very hard to choose from.

- Ian Keatley or Ronan O'Gara? Or both with Keatley playing as a fullback. Obviously with O'Gara injured Keatley is getting a good run with youngster JJ Hanrahan getting the chance for game time too.

- Keith Earls - he has to play somewhere but where? On the left wing? With Laulala in the centre? With Downey in the centre? At fullback?

- Are Laulala and Earls too similar to play in the centre. Do we need a big lump like James Downey to give us go forward ball in the backs.

- Fullback - a very very very open position. Keith Earls, Felix Jones, Denis Hurley and Ian Keatley are all real contenders for the starting berth.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Also, thought Casey was instrumental in 2 r 3 of the tries. Not sure why people don't like him he looked v dangerous when he got the ball.

Totally agree Pete. He also straightens the line, draws defenders and looks to offload inside and outside which creates space and opportunities for his support players.

I bet Zebo and Howlett would far rather play outside this guy than Earls ......

rodders wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Also, thought Casey was instrumental in 2 r 3 of the tries. Not sure why people don't like him he looked v dangerous when he got the ball.

Totally agree Pete. He also straightens the line, draws defenders and looks to offload inside and outside which creates space and opportunities for his support players.

I bet Zebo and Howlett would far rather play outside this guy than Earls ......

He also always looks like he can break the line. For jj's 2nd try the defence was packed and he still got thru.

Maybe next season it will be different but I feel the centre partnership of Downey and Laulala is important to the development of this side. If Keatley is to be stand off, having a solid option like Downey is a massive help while the offloading ability of Downey and Laulala really helps free up our outside backs whoever they may be.

This also gives time for the likes of Hanrahan and Earls to develop in their preferred positions at a less intense level. I would also hope that next year O'Dea will be ahead of Howlett.

MBTGOG wrote:Maybe next season it will be different but I feel the centre partnership of Downey and Laulala is important to the development of this side. If Keatley is to be stand off, having a solid option like Downey is a massive help while the offloading ability of Downey and Laulala really helps free up our outside backs whoever they may be.

This also gives time for the likes of Hanrahan and Earls to develop in their preferred positions at a less intense level. I would also hope that next year O'Dea will be ahead of Howlett.

Don't let Stag see you say that about Earls. He'll be forced to shake his fist vigorously at you and then say nasty things about your mother. I've always found her a delight for the record, and she makes magnificent scones.

MBTGOG wrote:Maybe next season it will be different but I feel the centre partnership of Downey and Laulala is important to the development of this side. If Keatley is to be stand off, having a solid option like Downey is a massive help while the offloading ability of Downey and Laulala really helps free up our outside backs whoever they may be.

This also gives time for the likes of Hanrahan and Earls to develop in their preferred positions at a less intense level. I would also hope that next year O'Dea will be ahead of Howlett.

I agree with this in part. From Keatly's perspective it is so good having guys there who can stand up for themselves regarding physicality, it's almost an 'out' if he finds himself running down an alley.

I think one of things about Earls though (as a 13 not a back 3 player) is that he tears weaker teams to shreds, his pace and agility mean that a poor team with any sort of defensive weakness gets eaten up by him, he loves it.

I think if Earls wants to develop as a 13 he needs to play against the best of the best (no point putting him in Munster A if you want him to develop). I think he finds it really tricky when good teams have good defensive systems and he can't make those breaks or half breaks. Similarly I think he finds it difficult defending at 13 against good teams.

Part of the hype around Earls is I think down to the fact that he is SOOOOO good against weaker teams be it internationally or provincially.
Yes he made the most linebreaks in the 6Nations tournament but how many led to tries? How often did he find support? How many were against England or France (he missed the Wales games I think)? How many linebreaks did we conceed? Of those linebreaks how many were due to him being the overlap man?

I was looking through a tribute video to earls there and noticed a few things:

1) He is so fast. I thought Kearney was close to him but there is one try there where Kearney is gased on the outside kind of.
2) Only 2 of all the tries (clip is over 6mins of tries) come from Earls receiving the ball at first receiver and I think they were both for the U20's.
3) The vast majority of tries in the clip (no matter what jersey he was wearing) came from earls getting the ball on the wing and running really fast.
4) The majority of the clips show very little of the skills used as a 13.
5) Not many tackles were broken other than diving over the line which obviously is important but if he wasn't in that position it would have been just a bog standard tackle perhaps. Hard to describe but doesn't look like he is beating lads here there and everywhere is what I am trying to say.

Here is the clip, I am sure there are many more like it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP18Fn2Qhv4

I then (just cos I felt like it looked at a tribute clip to Bowe and also to Luke Fitz) and the difference is stark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xpLQksPfOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3RQerbZDqI&NR=1&feature=endscreen

In this there was:

1) Some defending
2) Taking the ball at 1st or 2nd receiver
3) Coming infield to look for ball and short offloads

This clip didn't include any of the games where Luke was arguably at his best (last Christmas and just before/after) and doesn't include much of when Bowe was playing some amazing stuff for the Lions in 2009 (that try he set up for Monye was sick).

I don't think Earls is a centre to be honest but I do think Luke should give it a try and the reference to Bowe is that I think Earls should be looking for work to the same extent that Bowe is.

Excellent post Pete, take a bow sir!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Maybe next season it will be different but I feel the centre partnership of Downey and Laulala is important to the development of this side. If Keatley is to be stand off, having a solid option like Downey is a massive help while the offloading ability of Downey and Laulala really helps free up our outside backs whoever they may be.

This also gives time for the likes of Hanrahan and Earls to develop in their preferred positions at a less intense level. I would also hope that next year O'Dea will be ahead of Howlett.

I agree with this in part. From Keatly's perspective it is so good having guys there who can stand up for themselves regarding physicality, it's almost an 'out' if he finds himself running down an alley.

I think one of things about Earls though (as a 13 not a back 3 player) is that he tears weaker teams to shreds, his pace and agility mean that a poor team with any sort of defensive weakness gets eaten up by him, he loves it.

I think if Earls wants to develop as a 13 he needs to play against the best of the best (no point putting him in Munster A if you want him to develop). I think he finds it really tricky when good teams have good defensive systems and he can't make those breaks or half breaks. Similarly I think he finds it difficult defending at 13 against good teams.

Part of the hype around Earls is I think down to the fact that he is SOOOOO good against weaker teams be it internationally or provincially.
Yes he made the most linebreaks in the 6Nations tournament but how many led to tries? How often did he find support? How many were against England or France (he missed the Wales games I think)? How many linebreaks did we conceed? Of those linebreaks how many were due to him being the overlap man?

I was looking through a tribute video to earls there and noticed a few things:

1) He is so fast. I thought Kearney was close to him but there is one try there where Kearney is gased on the outside kind of.
2) Only 2 of all the tries (clip is over 6mins of tries) come from Earls receiving the ball at first receiver and I think they were both for the U20's.
3) The vast majority of tries in the clip (no matter what jersey he was wearing) came from earls getting the ball on the wing and running really fast.
4) The majority of the clips show very little of the skills used as a 13.
5) Not many tackles were broken other than diving over the line which obviously is important but if he wasn't in that position it would have been just a bog standard tackle perhaps. Hard to describe but doesn't look like he is beating lads here there and everywhere is what I am trying to say.

Here is the clip, I am sure there are many more like it too.

I then (just cos I felt like it looked at a tribute clip to Bowe and also to Luke Fitz) and the difference is stark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xpLQksPfOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3RQerbZDqI&NR=1&feature=endscreen

In this there was:

1) Some defending
2) Taking the ball at 1st or 2nd receiver
3) Coming infield to look for ball and short offloads

This clip didn't include any of the games where Luke was arguably at his best (last Christmas and just before/after) and doesn't include much of when Bowe was playing some amazing stuff for the Lions in 2009 (that try he set up for Monye was sick).

I don't think Earls is a centre to be honest but I do think Luke should give it a try and the reference to Bowe is that I think Earls should be looking for work to the same extent that Bowe is.

Wise up man and stop using reasoned balanced argument. It has no place here in a discussion about Earls. I preemptively agree with Sin whose post simply says 'Johnny Sexton'. Indeed, an excellent riposte.

I presume you have ignored the number of tries scored in the OC position for Ireland and the IC position in the A's when he played there.

Sorry but Juvenile assesment again Pete...nothing new there..

Also MB is off his rocker if he thinks that donkey Downey will develop into anything...or Laulala at that.

DOD wrote:I presume you have ignored the number of tries scored in the OC position for Ireland and the IC position in the A's when he played there.

Well actually DOD you seem to have ignored the fact that Pete hasn't ignored those......

DOD wrote:I presume you have ignored the number of tries scored in the OC position for Ireland and the IC position in the A's when he played there.

Sorry but Juvenile assesment again Pete...nothing new there..

Also MB is off his rocker if he thinks that donkey Downey will develop into anything...or Laulala at that.

Your presumptions are obviously quite juvenile if you have not looked at the clips as they show examples of both the things you are discussing.
So instead of presuming I have ignored something, take the 5 minutes to read the post, look at the clips and then make an informed decision rather than one based on your assumptions.

Have a look at the clip(s).
There are numerous tries on display where he is wearing the 13 jersey but all of them demonstrate the skills of a winger and very few of the skills of a centre.

Ireland A was a while ago now at this stage and while he made some seriously nice tries there when was the last time he did something like that in the Pro12, HCup or in an International.

Casey was very good in the early pro12 games and has only looked poor (IMO) when coupled with ROG or when at 12.

Watch Keith Earls get the Munster backline moving this season at 13 against Ulster.

Pass and move. Architect and Finisher!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CkW4yZcwVwE

Great try and move by Earls I really like it but how often has that happened?

The most impressive part of that for me was when he drew in the two defenders and passed, poor defending by Cave but Earls did well.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
There are numerous tries on display where he is wearing the 13 jersey but all of them demonstrate the skills of a winger and very few of the skills of a centre.

You know i hear this alot but i have seen him get the Munster back line going on numerous occasions, it doesnt always have to end in a try for it to be seen as a great centre movement.
A lot of centres try's can also be said to be 'winger skills'. Earles has improved loads in his ability to get a backline moving and some of the lines he runs a pure centre quality.

Pete - it happens a fair bit just doesn't always lead to tries.

Or we get people who just look at him catching the pass from Howlett and shrug it off saying he just caught the ball and ran it in like a winger.

He does a lot of good work at 13. In our crushing of Northampton last year he made a great pass for one of Zebos tries that earned him no plaudits.

eirebilly wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
There are numerous tries on display where he is wearing the 13 jersey but all of them demonstrate the skills of a winger and very few of the skills of a centre.

You know i hear this alot but i have seen him get the Munster back line going on numerous occasions, it doesnt always have to end in a try for it to be seen as a great centre movement.
A lot of centres try's can also be said to be 'winger skills'. Earles has improved loads in his ability to get a backline moving and some of the lines he runs a pure centre quality.

I really disagree with this. You don't really see Earls cut that many attacking lines. He generally likes to take the ball in space and thus either stays deep or stays wide. He is also (as centres go) quite poor in contact so it doesn't make much sense for him to be really attacking the gain line that hard.

Totally agree that some tries scored by centres need to show 'wingers skills'. I'd just ask you to look at the clip of Bowe and the clip of Fitz and observe how much more 'involved' they get. They are right in the centre of the action, they are attacking the gain line, looking for offloads, coming in off inside shoulders of their team mates.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
There are numerous tries on display where he is wearing the 13 jersey but all of them demonstrate the skills of a winger and very few of the skills of a centre.

You know i hear this alot but i have seen him get the Munster back line going on numerous occasions, it doesnt always have to end in a try for it to be seen as a great centre movement.
A lot of centres try's can also be said to be 'winger skills'. Earles has improved loads in his ability to get a backline moving and some of the lines he runs a pure centre quality.

I really disagree with this. You don't really see Earls cut that many attacking lines. He generally likes to take the ball in space and thus either stays deep or stays wide. He is also (as centres go) quite poor in contact so it doesn't make much sense for him to be really attacking the gain line that hard.

Totally agree that some tries scored by centres need to show 'wingers skills'. I'd just ask you to look at the clip of Bowe and the clip of Fitz and observe how much more 'involved' they get. They are right in the centre of the action, they are attacking the gain line, looking for offloads, coming in off inside shoulders of their team mates.

You dont see him cut many attacking lines? I really cant agree with this, he has gotton so much better at running some great lines and getting the backline working... Not sure i can agree that he is poor in contact either to be honest.

Pete, Earls has such a good try scoring record, there is no need to resort to showing him making tackles when selecting highlights. You might see a bit more of him if you looked up other team mates tries such as this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thjigUCMWwY&feature=related

Top example Sin é . Pete watch the lines he runs, the constant looking for support and the wonderful piece of delaying his final pass to commit the defender

DOD wrote:I presume you have ignored the number of tries scored in the OC position for Ireland and the IC position in the A's when he played there.

Sorry but Juvenile assesment again Pete...nothing new there..

Also MB is off his rocker if he thinks that donkey Downey will develop into anything...or Laulala at that.

Ah but you see I was talking about Hanrahan and Earls developing while Downey and Laulala plug the gap for the moment.

Ah I've seen that gem a good few times.

The game is manic, cross field kicks inside the own 22, how many turnovers? Great rugby.

I think this shows Earls as a winger so much! He doesn't cut a line to make the break however. He receives then steps (what a step). Not running a line.
This is running a line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-yOjOcctXs
as is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2mtYbactLE

He does look for support though and that is really is a positive.

It is broken field play basically the game is so loose.

Ps:

1) I have obviously seen a lot more of Earls than two clips. Cut out the silliness.

2) Making tackles are KINDA important and shouldn't be made out to be a lesser part of a players game.

Off to play tag now on Halloween, dodging defenders and bangers tonight........

Earls has been playing in poorly coached teams, is fairly injury prone and has been moved around too much. I think thats why we've yet to see the best of him. He just needs a run of games in one position. There are few people who can run like Earls.

The trouble with some posters is the position taken so therefore they have to back up that position regardess of the facts and evidence and then make things up - for example stating he is poor in contact (he rarely loses ball in contact), when playing OC despite playing against larger opposition he also 9 times out of 10 actually breaks the gain line, 3 in terms of tackling am sure we could all find missed tackles but it is not a weakness of his game. In addition the old arguement was his distribution (now very good) so in effect the arguements made are a load of tosh (as usual)

The fact is for Munster Earls is wasted on the wing. He is too good a player to be left there and with Zebo and Howlett is not required there.

Secondly on the occassions he has played in the OC position for Ireland he has scored regularly (and yes while running fast which is also a useful attribute). I believe nearly half his tries for ireland are when he has played centre or deputised there.

It looks as if he is going to get a run there for Ireland unless Kidney does the unthinkable. Its about time and will be his position for many years as he is still by far the best player for that position in Ireland.

Regardless of Ireland this is the Munster thread he will be the OC for Munster I hope with JJ.

MB - at this stage I would only use Laulala and Downey as replacements. Even Ivan Dineen is a better option than Downey.

Oh FFS...I actually decided to look at the videos from Pete regarding Earls, Bowe and Luke Fitz....these are great examples as to why Earls should be a centre and the other two wingers....thanks Pete great evidence to back your claim....

red_stag wrote:Watch Keith Earls get the Munster backline moving this season at 13 against Ulster.

Pass and move. Architect and Finisher!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CkW4yZcwVwE

I beg to differ. Watch it again. Laulua, Howlett and Hurley are the architects, they're the ones that draw the defenders and create the gap to come through. That is actually a classic fullbacks inside line Earls cuts to finish off the move. No one is questioning Earls ability to track the ball carrier and get on the end of chances but there is nothing there to suggest he has the skills to be a center.

Sure he still needs time to develop. He's only been at the game 7 years now. In another seven he might be good enough to play 13 regularly. Give him time Rodders for Gods sake.

Sin é wrote:Pete, Earls has such a good try scoring record, there is no need to resort to showing him making tackles when selecting highlights. You might see a bit more of him if you looked up other team mates tries such as this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thjigUCMWwY&feature=related

Well the only thing that clip shows is the referee should have went back for the scrum advantage for Ulster. No Try.

DOD wrote:The trouble with some posters is the position taken so therefore they have to back up that position regardess of the facts and evidence and then make things up - for example stating he is poor in contact (he rarely loses ball in contact), when playing OC despite playing against larger opposition he also 9 times out of 10 actually breaks the gain line, 3 in terms of tackling am sure we could all find missed tackles but it is not a weakness of his game. In addition the old arguement was his distribution (now very good) so in effect the arguements made are a load of tosh (as usual)

The fact is for Munster Earls is wasted on the wing. He is too good a player to be left there and with Zebo and Howlett is not required there.

Secondly on the occassions he has played in the OC position for Ireland he has scored regularly (and yes while running fast which is also a useful attribute). I believe nearly half his tries for ireland are when he has played centre or deputised there.

It looks as if he is going to get a run there for Ireland unless Kidney does the unthinkable. Its about time and will be his position for many years as he is still by far the best player for that position in Ireland.

Regardless of Ireland this is the Munster thread he will be the OC for Munster I hope with JJ.

MB - at this stage I would only use Laulala and Downey as replacements. Even Ivan Dineen is a better option than Downey.

Fair enough, I'd have to disagree but sure, I hope you're well.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Sure he still needs time to develop. He's only been at the game 7 years now. In another seven he might be good enough to play 13 regularly. Give him time Rodders for Gods sake.

Well his try scoring record speaks for itself so no worries there. Will get a run now so at least we have decent cover for BOD.

In terms of giving people time, how long before a certain OH time is up. He had to wait until one incumbent got injured and another got his bus pass, and yet his time is coming to an end already with the young guns coming through

thankyou for asking MB I am fine. I hope life in heathenland is suiting you.

You hit the nail on the head DOD. With all these injuries and retirements some Munster players might actually get a game for Ireland.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:You hit the nail on the head DOD. With all these injuries and retirements some Munster players might actually get a game for Ireland.

Ah sure , we might see some improvements then.

DOD-

Ball retention and being good in contact are not the same thing, to say so is naive.

Earls' ball retention is very good however you rarely see him making yards on a switch or a hard line (he rarely cuts these lines because he will more often than not, not win the contact situation to get him over the gainline) and you want your centres capable of coming back inside and straightening the line not just gasing people on the outside. 9/10 times he breaks the gainline? Well that is just not true

Becomes very predictable and easy to defend.

His distribution has got better but it is still poor compared to centres in International teams.

I never thought his tackling was weak. I think it is very good and I know he has worked on it w Ryan a lot. It's his defensive positioning (see the Tuilagi try in last years world cup warm ups and the try Darcy scored in the 2009 semi final) both examples of Earls not knowing where to be or who to tackle.

He probably will get the 13 jersey although he is the leading candidate for the 15 one at the moment. He is not the long term holder of that jersey unless he drastically improves.

For a guy who has been given so many opportunities (caps, Lions tours, regular time with Munster) for many seasons he still seems so raw and "instinctive".

He doesn't seem to be a very good learner in the way Zebo is (Zebo noticed weaknesses in his game and has all but eliminated them and turned in to a player who could be a regular in our starting XV)

The clips should be analysed good and hard DOD then read what I was saying. Maybe even track what the player in question does in each "scene".

Have a look at these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmHH8p9VLbw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T09LByqJMzw

Pete - glad you are at last acknowledging Denis Leamy's ability with the boot - great vision and skill for a backrower. You'd never catch Heaslip doing that

You seem to be very prescriptive of how you think an outside centre should play - i.e., he shouldn't play like a winger.

Well then, how do you rate Brian O'Driscoll who plays like a flanker and certainly in his youth when he had the pace, played a different game? Then you have Darren Cave who rarely gets involved in rucks and seems to be more a distribution type centre who needs a more creative partner like Paddy Wallace beside him for creativity.

The problems that Earls has is that he is so talented he has the ability to make a go of any position in the outside backs so he is constantly being moved around. For instance, going to NZ tour - off the back of playing outside centre all season, he started at fullback for the Ba-Baas, then wing in NZ - thats a lot of stuff to have to deal with against opposition like the ABs. You complain that he doesn't come in enough (he does actually), but with teams like the allblacks who are very dangerous outside, its best to stay out there (and that would be normal for most international teams - especially on the left wing- Ashton, Clerc, North. Its not as if Kearney is a great last ditch defender either!

As for his poor distribution - the proof is in the pudding - Simon Zebo is scoring trys for fun on his side of the pitch, so obviously someone is making space for Zebo to do so. Even Andrew Trimble scored a couple of tries this 6Ns - something he has not done for ages. 3 of his 11 tries in 36 starts (48 appearances) were with Earls in the centre.

When your team have the ball your winger isn't supposed to camp out on the wing. That is very elementary.

Ashton and North frequently come in off their wing with great effect so no idea why you'd pick those two of all the wingers in the world.

It's not that a centre shouldn't play as a winger it's just Earls has the traits of a winger in abundance and has very few of the traits of a centre. He brings his attributes to the position and against weaker or less organised teams it works just the ticket. Against stronger and more organised teams he needs to be able to do certain things that most centres can do that he can not, like run offensive direct lines and not just trust he is quick and able to get outside the defence.

BOD has the traits of a flanker, Wallace has the traits of a flyhalf but both have traits of a centre as well. Cave I believe is doing very well with Ulster at the moment and his defence is top drawer, seems to be scoring a few too and has the traditional centre skill set. Earls in my mind does not have the skills of a centre.

Wasn't too convinced by your Andrew Trimble talk to be honest so checked and Andy did score 3 tries none of which Earls contributed in. Hats off to Murray for 1 of them. Earls didn't score a try for us in the 6n and only set up one really for Bowe against France and by set up I mean "made the final pass" in a chain of 4 other passes and a great turnover by Best on the far wing. Bowe then chipped Poitrenaud and dummied the openside winger.

Also worth noting that for one of Bowe's two versus Italy a certain player wearing green 13 can be seen standing on the wing not doing much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mz6zlQDzFc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukb2HwDOydk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bWlRWHE14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvWZYzftNOA

Didn't cover himself in too much glory during the AB tour either but hey not many of the backs did I guess.

The RBS did some stats for the 6Ns and Earls (missing one game against Wales) had the second most clean breaks. Someone like Earls draws defenders - they are always watching him because of his pace - thus creating space for others.

I really wouldn't be bigging up Cave's defence after Earls' recent try, his turnstile performance in NZ and missing 7 tackles against Cardiff recently. Good job Ulster have Payne to clean up after him.

Sin é wrote:
I really wouldn't be bigging up Cave's defence after Earls' recent try, his turnstile performance in NZ and missing 7 tackles against Cardiff recently. Good job Ulster have Payne to clean up after him.

Sin I have to pull you up on that one sir, that's just wrong there.... they're actually called the Blues, not Cardiff.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I really wouldn't be bigging up Cave's defence after Earls' recent try, his turnstile performance in NZ and missing 7 tackles against Cardiff recently. Good job Ulster have Payne to clean up after him.

Sin I have to pull you up on that one sir, that's just wrong there.... they're actually called the Blues, not Cardiff.

I know rods, but Leinster like to refer to themselves as the 'Blues" and I didn't want the little hearts of the Leinster fans who post here to sore and then be disappointed that I wasn't referring to them.

Ealrs doesn't really have the brain for centre in my opinion, he is improving in that department but often makes the wrong decisions there, the fact that we are talking and not agreeing shows a massive problem that nobody in Ireland knows where to use him best.


I think he would make a good full back to be honest, has impressed me any time he has played there.

I thought it was the Leinster Lions?....and if Earls is the scare crow and Cave is the tin man then Deccie must be the Wizard of Oz......

Thomond wrote:Ealrs doesn't really have the brain for centre in my opinion, he is improving in that department but often makes the wrong decisions there, the fact that we are talking and not agreeing shows a massive problem that nobody in Ireland knows where to use him best.

I think he would make a good full back to be honest, has impressed me any time he has played there.

May I suggest that there is something wrong with your own brain power. The problem that Earls has is that some people can't stomack that he is an exceptionally talented rugby player who can play anywhere in the outside back. As most people are used to players who are just about adequate in one position, they are unable to comprehend a multi-position player as its so out of the norm.

What you see as not 'having the brain' is in fact the odd error because he is always being moved around the place.
As for playing fullback - he is excellent there - but he played once there in the last year.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Ealrs doesn't really have the brain for centre in my opinion, he is improving in that department but often makes the wrong decisions there, the fact that we are talking and not agreeing shows a massive problem that nobody in Ireland knows where to use him best.

I think he would make a good full back to be honest, has impressed me any time he has played there.

May I suggest that there is something wrong with your own brain power. The problem that Earls has is that some people can't stomack that he is an exceptionally talented rugby player who can play anywhere in the outside back. As most people are used to players who are just about adequate in one position, they are unable to comprehend a multi-position player as its so out of the norm.

What you see as not 'having the brain' is in fact the odd error because he is always being moved around the place.
As for playing fullback - he is excellent there - but he played once there in the last year.

Totally agree Sin...i really don't understand the blind spot people have with Earls. Probably one of the most talented rugby players of his generation. A bit of snobbery or just jealousy, or in the case of Pete utterly clueless.

Anyone remember BOD when he couldn't pass for sh1t, even now a pass over 6 feet is liable to go awry. Or even his kicking game ?

Anyhow we will know soon enough how off the rails kidneys thinking will be soon enough. For Munster the sooner Earls is first choice centre the better

Earls seems to be the most controversial player in Irish rugby! POM and Murray are a close second. Paddy Wallace and ROG have dropped down that particular league

Keith bloody Earls .

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:When your team have the ball your winger isn't supposed to camp out on the wing. That is very elementary.

Ashton and North frequently come in off their wing with great effect so no idea why you'd pick those two of all the wingers in the world.

It's not that a centre shouldn't play as a winger it's just Earls has the traits of a winger in abundance and has very few of the traits of a centre. He brings his attributes to the position and against weaker or less organised teams it works just the ticket. Against stronger and more organised teams he needs to be able to do certain things that most centres can do that he can not, like run offensive direct lines and not just trust he is quick and able to get outside the defence.

BOD has the traits of a flanker, Wallace has the traits of a flyhalf but both have traits of a centre as well. Cave I believe is doing very well with Ulster at the moment and his defence is top drawer, seems to be scoring a few too and has the traditional centre skill set. Earls in my mind does not have the skills of a centre.

Wasn't too convinced by your Andrew Trimble talk to be honest so checked and Andy did score 3 tries none of which Earls contributed in. Hats off to Murray for 1 of them. Earls didn't score a try for us in the 6n and only set up one really for Bowe against France and by set up I mean "made the final pass" in a chain of 4 other passes and a great turnover by Best on the far wing. Bowe then chipped Poitrenaud and dummied the openside winger.

Also worth noting that for one of Bowe's two versus Italy a certain player wearing green 13 can be seen standing on the wing not doing much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mz6zlQDzFc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukb2HwDOydk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bWlRWHE14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvWZYzftNOA

Didn't cover himself in too much glory during the AB tour either but hey not many of the backs did I guess.

Sorry Pete but the highlighted piece is absolute pish and i suspect you realise that yourself. Earls has all the ability and the traits to be a great centre and probably would already be that, if he wasnt so good on the wing and at fullback. His strengths in all these positions lead him to being utilised as a utility back. Get him into 13 and leave him be. Munster and Ireland will be the better for it.

profitius wrote:Earls seems to be the most controversial player in Irish rugby! POM and Murray are a close second. Paddy Wallace and ROG have dropped down that particular league

The only people they are controversial with just seem to be from the blue rinse brigade or the jaffas, don't know of many Munster supporters who think that way (red stag and thomond don't count as they have been clearly brainwashed by association)

But I like Earls at 13

red_stag wrote:But I like Earls at 13

You are far to reasonable at times RS...

DOD wrote:

profitius wrote:Earls seems to be the most controversial player in Irish rugby! POM and Murray are a close second. Paddy Wallace and ROG have dropped down that particular league

The only people they are controversial with just seem to be from the blue rinse brigade or the jaffas, don't know of many Munster supporters who think that way (red stag and thomond don't count as they have been clearly brainwashed by association)

DOD wrote:

red_stag wrote:But I like Earls at 13

You are far to reasonable at times RS...

F*#k you Pete. Earls is a centre. You frock wearing west brit ladyboys don't know what makes a good 13. BOD? Don't get me started. If it wasnt for morketing the fat lump would have #7 on his back roysh. The dudes a flanker with a swagger.

Give it 12 months and we'll see the Munster born and bred centres Hanrahan and Earls setting up chances for Zebo and Felix Jones. It'll be just like watching Munster but they'll be wearing green.

Spoiler:

100% improvement RS..nearly fell off the couch