England wings for the AI's

First topic message reminder :

Ashton seems pretty much nailed on. But who else? Is it too soon for Wade? Do we bring Monye back?
Who do you think should be given the 11 jersey?

I had no idea. What a versatile player he is.

I'd like to see him given a few more runs at centre- I think he could be very good there.

No point leaving him at bath.get him training with the squad,being around our best players will only improve him.He will thrive on test rugby,so much natural talent.

But whatever happens...everyone involed needs to pick a spot for him and make him stick to that in general. Hes not going to learn moving here there and everywhere....

Agreed,long term probably 12,but a lot of talented players start on the wing to get a feel for test rugby then move..e.g...jonny,jo'c,jdv

sickofwendy wrote:Agreed,long term probably 12,but a lot of talented players start on the wing to get a feel for test rugby then move..e.g...jonny,jo'c,jdv

To be fair it is stretching it a little to suggest Wilkinson started on the wing. His first cap came as a replacement on the wing - but only because Phil De Glanville had already come on in the Centre. JW was on the bench primarily to cover FH.

Interestingly (or not) the England wings that day were Catt and Healey.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/23371.html

Wilkinson's first start came that summer at FH in the 76-0 thrashing from Australia . (Side note England debutantas that day were S Benton, SP Brown, DE Chapman, RJ Pool-Jones, S Potter, SCW Ravenscroft, B Sturnham - bonus points to anyone who knows all their first names and the clubs they played for without googling)

Too soon for Eastmond in my view. I'd let him settle at Bath, work on his allround game and then take a look for the 6 Nations and see whether he has managed to maintain form.

My choice of wings for the AIs would be Ashton and Tuilagi, with Goode at fullback, Barritt and Joseph in the centres and Care and Flood at half back.

Simpson, Burns and Brown on the bench.

timhen wrote:In my mind I was moving between a few of the options, but I'm definitely coming down on the side of Wade. There isn't a more exciting wing available to us, he plays left wing week in week out,

No he doesn't. He wears the 11 shirt but he always plays on the right wing.

sirtidychris wrote:
Dave M, england have a track record of losing games because we play people out of position e.g Stevens at loosehead, wilko 10 with flood 12, monye at fullback, wilko 10 gegarthy 12. In manu tuilagi we have one of our brightest stars for a long long time and he's really starting to play well at OC moving him to wing shouldn't even be considered. One of nick abendanons main strengths is his elusive broken running from deep, not his sheer speed, he is a fullback in every way, just like foden. It annoys me that people get changed around beacuse they can "do a job" stick with players that play in one position week in and week out.....in england we have a glut of young wingers i'd prefer to take a punt on eastmond, wade, thompsone, benjamin, may , sharples, biggs, monye etc etc than play foden, bendy or tuilagi .

I seriously doubt England lost those games because of one player, England had multiple problems back then and made some strange selections. It doesn't mean there aren't English backs who could play more than one position. When I watch Tuilagi I see a player who performs well in the wide channels where he can just focus on the man in front of him and the try line. Tuilagi could be a sensational foil to Ashton on the other wing (with both of them coming off their wings as they see fit), with JJ and Barritt an interesting combination in the middle. I think it's worth a look - if it doesn't work then fair enough.

I think we will have to agree to disagree Dave my good man, England being England i'm sure Tuilagi will be moved around so we shall see !

DaveM wrote:

timhen wrote:In my mind I was moving between a few of the options, but I'm definitely coming down on the side of Wade. There isn't a more exciting wing available to us, he plays left wing week in week out,

No he doesn't. He wears the 11 shirt but he always plays on the right wing.

He does play on the right for Wasps despite wearing 11 (not sure what the deal is there), but for the England U20s and the senior side against the Barbarians and midweek teams on tour he's played on the left.

We've seen Tuilagi play wing for England age grade and Tigers before. For my money he's a better centre, he lacks the instinct and anticipation of a natural wing.

It's a shame we have to decide between JJ & Tuilagi for OC, but of the two JJ makes the better wing, not that I'm a fan of playing him there either, if not starting at centre I'd have him on the bench as impact.

I would love to see Johnny May given a go on the left wing!

I think he could to great for England there. He has all the skills - good in defense, good positional play and under the high ball from full back days, good hands and he's got great pace!

Also gives a very good option from the bench for when we're at full strength due to his versatility. Personally I'd love to see an EPS of back three players made up of:

Wings: Ashton,Monye and May

Full Backs: Foden and Brown

With Sharples next in line for the wings and Goode next in line for the full-backs.

I know Wade is very well thought currently and his attacking play is impressive but I simply don't like the look of 11.Wade 14.Ashton when both are suspect defenders and decision makers.

From that I'd currently pick 11.May 14.Ashton 15.Brown but when Foden is fit I'd happily see Foden tried at 11 to see if he could adapt into the sort of player Cory Jane has for NZ! This is all of course unlikely and dependent on Brown proving himself in the AI's.

I'd love May in there but he's been injured and not played enough matches, which is a great shame. He was class for the one match he played in SA and was one of brightest sparks last season.

The AI opportunity has probably arrived too soon for the injured May, but he could really set the 6N alight if he gets back into good form.

niwatts wrote:We've seen Tuilagi play wing for England age grade and Tigers before. For my money he's a better centre, he lacks the instinct and anticipation of a natural wing.

It's a shame we have to decide between JJ & Tuilagi for OC, but of the two JJ makes the better wing, not that I'm a fan of playing him there either, if not starting at centre I'd have him on the bench as impact.

So do we disregard Lowe and Trinder? Im a big fan of Lowe in particular.

PS Aside from Ashton I do think we need to be looking (focusing) at Wade and May as the serious prospects...but i do like a big power winger in there...so keep Monye and say Thompstone on the radar...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

niwatts wrote:We've seen Tuilagi play wing for England age grade and Tigers before. For my money he's a better centre, he lacks the instinct and anticipation of a natural wing.

It's a shame we have to decide between JJ & Tuilagi for OC, but of the two JJ makes the better wing, not that I'm a fan of playing him there either, if not starting at centre I'd have him on the bench as impact.

So do we disregard Lowe and Trinder? Im a big fan of Lowe in particular.

PS Aside from Ashton I do think we need to be looking (focusing) at Wade and May as the serious prospects...but i do like a big power winger in there...so keep Monye and say Thompstone on the radar...

Agree with that, I think Wade should start in the Autumn. He's fit, scoring tries and a future star.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

niwatts wrote:We've seen Tuilagi play wing for England age grade and Tigers before. For my money he's a better centre, he lacks the instinct and anticipation of a natural wing.

It's a shame we have to decide between JJ & Tuilagi for OC, but of the two JJ makes the better wing, not that I'm a fan of playing him there either, if not starting at centre I'd have him on the bench as impact.

So do we disregard Lowe and Trinder? Im a big fan of Lowe in particular.

PS Aside from Ashton I do think we need to be looking (focusing) at Wade and May as the serious prospects...but i do like a big power winger in there...so keep Monye and say Thompstone on the radar...

Disregard, no. I similarily like them both (though Trinder's form hasn't been great this season and Lowe has obviously been injured), but I do think Tuilagi & JJ are better and clearly the favoured options with the England setup.

Wade & May are the players I think we should be focusing on as well, but yes I also agree a more powerful option in the mix is useful. To that end I think it's a great shame that injury has meant we haven't been able to see what Benjamin can do at Tigers this season, if both fit I suspect that he would get the nod over Thompstone (who even taking into account his injuries had form that wavered a bit between good and average at Irish). Yarde is another player I continue to be impressed with, very rapid and powerful, a similar size to Monye at present (88kg vs 92kg according to the AP website) and still only 20yo.


Yarde

6 Matches
1 Tries
5 Points
2 Try assist
11 Kicks From Hand
17 Passes
0 Yellow cards
0 Red cards
52 Carries
299 Metres carried
7 Clean breaks
7 Offloads
11 Defenders beaten
39 Tackles
1 Missed tackles

EnglishReign wrote:I'd love May in there but he's been injured and not played enough matches, which is a great shame. He was class for the one match he played in SA and was one of brightest sparks last season.

The AI opportunity has probably arrived too soon for the injured May, but he could really set the 6N alight if he gets back into good form.

Yep it's a real shame the timing of his injury but personally I think if he's fit for the games (even the latter ones) I'd get him in the squad as I think he's exactly the sort of player we need!

As said before for me it's Wade or Ashton at the moment as I wouldn't want both in the same team when they can both be pretty poor in defense and their ground work is often lacking. From the two I'd favour Ashton at the moment as he's more experienced and a bit stronger in contact.

NiWatts,

Yes i would happily see Yarde brought in. He's another youngster who has been playing well and would be a nice compliment to Wade, May or Ashton etc.

I think its a big shame about Benjamin...i think had he been fit and on form he would probably have been selected.

Wade vs Monye IMO but I went for Wade in the end as he has the most potential.

Looks like Monye
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2222885/England-rugby-squad-James-Haskell-Ugo-Monye-recalled-Autumn-Tests.html

Monye is the safe option. Not a bad option actually.

Probably best to unleash Wade against weaker opposition in the 6 nations. More opportunity then too. Also he'll have had a sustained run of games.

beshocked wrote:Monye is the safe option. Not a bad option actually.

Probably best to unleash Wade against weaker opposition in the 6 nations. More opportunity then too. Also he'll have had a sustained run of games.

Fair point well made. I'd love to see Wade out there, but Monye has been in form, and the 6 Nations would be a great place to start Wade. If he doesn't get a go in the 6N though I'm reserving the right to whinge like a bitch.

Brass tacks. I like Ugo Moyne he has always given 100% for England. However as far as current selection goes bringing him back into the eps is an appalling decision by a selection panel headed by Lancaster.
Once upon a time Ugo was the proverbial off the shovel, as quick as any one who has played international rugby, however even given his totally professional approach it has always been obvious that his game has limitations.e.g ball in wrong hand preventing him scoring for the Lions.
The point is, the reason this is such an appalling decision, is not any limitation of his game, but that his best days are well and truely in the past - I tell you he is a long way down the list for selection today and he will be out of sight come the WC in 2015.
Take another approach. Imagine you're the All Blacks coach - the best coach of the best team on the planet (and the only team England should be benchmarking against), would you be selecting on past performance, the best of the talent available to you now or taking a punt on introducing the opportunity to realise the world class players of the future. Probably the second, but I am certain not the first option.
Lancaster et al do not have time to waste selection opportunities - England must be mad to suffer for second time an unproven head coach learning on the job and Steve Hansen must be wetting himself.
Finally I repeat I like Ugo Moyne, he is a credit to the game - but not the future of English rugby.

Well he isn't a long way down the list- he is te in form or one of the in form wingers in tge AP. He has 5 tries this season. He has a good all round game. He has England experience and pedigree and played well at wing fir England before someone decided he'd make a good FB (which he did not!) and played well there for Lions, try excepted. He is still young enough to be playing Internationally in 2015. He is playing for the Champions and one of the best teams in the AP at the moment. He may not be the long term future like Wade but he still has an International future and SL hasade it clear he wants an experienced foundation before blooding yet more players, given that this team is pretty new anyway. I for one don't disagree with him in this case