Have the Provinces taken over Ireland?

With only two accredited Internationals in the Autumn series, the Provinces can give their stars even more rest than ever for their star players.

Do the Provinces tails wag the IRFU dog?

Hmmm, South Africa, Fiji and Argentina. 3 games against international sides, 2 from the 4Ns and 1 from the next tier. Sounds like the standard number of games to me.

Heh- I think it's more the IRFU want to avoid any potential embarrassment/loss of rankings points against the minnows Fiji! Of course we should beat Fiji (saw a reporter for Planet Rugby tweet they have included 16 uncapped players for their tour) but I think they also (stupidly) committed themselves to playing every home test match in Dublin.

Trying to weasel out of that, I expect. The test window is three weeks long, other nations are playing fixtures outside it which I am very glad we are not.

red_stag wrote:

Care to share a bumper popcorn bucket with me Staggy?
I've washed my hands and have a spare pair of 3-D glasses.

Those sneaky Irish. I can see their plan. More rest for their star players means they will be in good shape to make an assault on the HC. Then the English and French will cry again and say "see we told you so".

Cunning Stunt.

Much as some people would like that, no. It is very much the other way round

greytiger wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Care to share a bumper popcorn bucket with me Staggy?
I've washed my hands and have a spare pair of 3-D glasses.

Greytiger,

Buy your own. Its only €1 but as part of the IRFU package you can only get your popcorn if you buy a ticket to both international tests matches at Aviva Stadium and 6 months of car insurance with Aviva.

In all seriousness I do think that in many ways the provinces have eclipsed the national team.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Hmmm, South Africa, Fiji and Argentina. 3 games against international sides, 2 from the 4Ns and 1 from the next tier. Sounds like the standard number of games to me.

Correct. Any additional games outside the window are strictly for financial reasons (Wales and England).

Ireland have a few injuries and retirements (or more players to retire), the IRFU needs to manage what they have effectively. Can't see why anyone would slate them for it.

To be honest, I'm just waiting for the PRL to sell off the rights to all NH autumn international matches to BT Vision.

It has to be on their list, just after the Eiffel Tower and London Bridge. They'll sell anything in confidence man!

doctornickolas wrote:Those sneaky Irish. I can see their plan. More rest for their star players means they will be in good shape to make an assault on the HC. Then the English and French will cry again and say "see we told you so".

Cunning Stunt.

You've seen our squad haven't you?

It could only be called "cunning" in the same sense as Baldrick's plans in Blackadder!

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Hmmm, South Africa, Fiji and Argentina. 3 games against international sides, 2 from the 4Ns and 1 from the next tier. Sounds like the standard number of games to me.

Ireland XV v Fiji at Thomond http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php

red_stag wrote:

greytiger wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Care to share a bumper popcorn bucket with me Staggy?
I've washed my hands and have a spare pair of 3-D glasses.

Greytiger,

Buy your own. Its only €1 but as part of the IRFU package you can only get your popcorn if you buy a ticket to both international tests matches at Aviva Stadium and 6 months of car insurance with Aviva.

In all seriousness I do think that in many ways the provinces have eclipsed the national team.

greytiger wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Hmmm, South Africa, Fiji and Argentina. 3 games against international sides, 2 from the 4Ns and 1 from the next tier. Sounds like the standard number of games to me.

Ireland XV v Fiji at Thomond http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php

This is for commercial reasons. They will not fill Aviva Stadium for this game. However we need to play all test matches at Aviva Stadium.

So this is an uncapped game similar to when we play Barbarians.

greytiger wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Hmmm, South Africa, Fiji and Argentina. 3 games against international sides, 2 from the 4Ns and 1 from the next tier. Sounds like the standard number of games to me.

Ireland XV v Fiji at Thomond http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php

Is there a point?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

greytiger wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Hmmm, South Africa, Fiji and Argentina. 3 games against international sides, 2 from the 4Ns and 1 from the next tier. Sounds like the standard number of games to me.

Ireland XV v Fiji at Thomond http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php

Is there a point?

More rest and recuperation for the Provinces as Ireland field a shadow side?

Greytiger,

You are correct that provinces have become as big as national team.

However you are on a wild goose chase on this one.

I dont expect a shadow side to go out against Fiji - this is our 3rd test rebranded to allow us to take a game outside Dublin.

red_stag wrote:Greytiger,

You are correct that provinces have become as big as national team.

However you are on a wild goose chase on this one.

I dont expect a shadow side to go out against Fiji - this is our 3rd test rebranded to allow us to take a game outside Dublin.

So Ireland feel that caps are worthy of full stadia?

That would mean that there would be about twenty International (globally) games a year.

greytiger wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

greytiger wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Hmmm, South Africa, Fiji and Argentina. 3 games against international sides, 2 from the 4Ns and 1 from the next tier. Sounds like the standard number of games to me.

Ireland XV v Fiji at Thomond http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php

Is there a point?

More rest and recuperation for the Provinces as Ireland field a shadow side?

Stag has hit the nail on the head. The terms of selling the naming rights to Lansdowne Road is that the IRFU and FAI committed that all international matches at home would be hosted in that stadium, it guarantees a certain level of guaranteed usage of the sponsors name etc. To move a game away from Lansdowne Road, it has to be rebadged outside of the scope of this term.

The main international squad will be drawn on for selecting the matchday squad and it will be very similar in composition to Ireland v Samoa a few seasons back which was played in the RDS.

And is have the national side playing fixtures around the country a bad thing? Instead of just keeping all the fixtures in the capital.
Is playing a pacific nation being sneered as not being a competitive game? In reality there will be just as much intensity (and maybe better broken field running and flowing rugby) in the Fiji game as there will with the Boks or Argentina.

Grey,

You've been told pretty clearly - this is not a provinces master plan to rest people. It is a business decision.

The national team is struggling for support - it needs to leave Dublin from time to time and market itself to those further away.

It is bound by terms of contract so it has arranged the Fiji game as an exhibition match rather than as a Test match to do so.

But to grant International status to games is an honour and whist every nation outside the Celtic ones shift outside their grand stadia on an on-going basis, I'm sure that Ireland at Thomond is unique in not granting International status to a comparative side.

greytiger wrote:But to grant International status to games is an honour and whist every nation outside the Celtic ones shift outside their grand stadia on an on-going basis, I'm sure that Ireland at Thomond is unique in not granting International status to a comparative side.

Maybe it is but you've been told the resoning behind twice now.

It seems to be a purely economic motive.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
The main international squad will be drawn on for selecting the matchday squad and it will be very similar in composition to Ireland v Samoa a few seasons back which was played in the RDS.

Samoa was in Lansdowne rd in 2010. It was Fiji in the RDS in 09 while LR was still closed. Too small a game for Croker.

greytiger wrote:

red_stag wrote:Greytiger,

You are correct that provinces have become as big as national team.

However you are on a wild goose chase on this one.

I dont expect a shadow side to go out against Fiji - this is our 3rd test rebranded to allow us to take a game outside Dublin.

So Ireland feel that caps are worthy of full stadia?

That would mean that there would be about twenty International (globally) games a year.

I think you're underestimating the sheer stupidity and short-sightedness of the IRFU here Tiger. I've been led to believe they signed a contract that said they would host all full ireland matches at the new stadium in Dublin. They were so confident they could sell it out for every match the opening international at the ground had tickets for 100 euros. What happened next was embarrassing- they suffered a massive public backlash and the team ran out to a half-empty stadium.

Right now, even with drastically reduced prices than from two years ago, our two full international games in the autumn aren't sold out. We have 40000+ for the Boks and 30000+ for the Pumas. They probably felt a fixture against Fiji would have been a commercial and PR disaster if they held it there with an almost empty stadium hence the move to Limerick.

Moving the game to Limerick is the right thing to do; they are taking it to a rugby heartland, where people maybe can't afford the trip to Dublin and they'll get to see a test match. And the right thing to do for all players involved would be to award caps, especially for the touring Fijians. But that contract has come back to bite them... like I said, they are short-sighted.

The point about whether the provinces are taking over is a valid one though; you're just barking up the wrong tree. There has been a drastic crash in demand for Ireland international tickets, they used to be genuinely hard to get. The IRFU have had to slash prices, market aggressively and we still haven't sold either game out.

But interest in rugby in Ireland is by no means falling. Attendances across the provinces remain strong and each of them are followed by a strong travelling contingent of fans. No-one who say the 40000 or so Ulster fans who descended on Dublin in the semi-final of the Heineken Cup last year or the hordes upon hordes or Leinster and Ulster fans at the Final in London could say theres no interest in rugby.

Its quite simple- people feel provincial rugby is better value and have lost interest in following the national side.

I was at that Samoa game Jen. It was awful, they were practically giving tickets away and the ground still couldn't have been half full. No way those games should be at Lansdowne Road. Nothing more depressing than being sat miles away from the action surrounded by empty seats.

I was also at the Fiji game in the RDS, good atmosphere and good banter on the terrace. DEFINITELY the way to go for lower profile test matches.

IRFU have massively shot themselves in the foot here.

I think the only Irish internations I have attended is in V Scotland, just beacuse owver the years it has been so hard to get a ticket while Scotland had/have problems selling theres it was easier and cheaper to travel to Edinburgh and watch Ireland in 6 nations.

Currently I couldn't justify shelling out, what is it now £50/60 for a ticket, I can see Ulster play 3 times for that and no travel expenses. However I think I'll look into Scotland away again this year. Would love to go back to Cardiff as well.

Kingshu wrote:I think the only Irish internations I have attended is in V Scotland, just beacuse owver the years it has been so hard to get a ticket while Scotland had/have problems selling theres it was easier and cheaper to travel to Edinburgh and watch Ireland in 6 nations.

Currently I couldn't justify shelling out, what is it now £50/60 for a ticket, I can see Ulster play 3 times for that and no travel expenses. However I think I'll look into Scotland away again this year. Would love to go back to Cardiff as well.

I have tickets on halfway for the Argentina game that cost 25 sterling (30 juros) you should get out more.

Just checked. There are still a few available. section 526. 2nd row behind the press. On halfway. I have sat in them before for the all blacks. Good seats AND you can see the replays that are not shown in the ground over the shoulders of the press boys.

The fact that the IRFU have priced those tickets so low and are still struggling to sell speaks volumes about where our relationship with the national team is. I mean, those are the best seats in the ground at a very fair price. Still available! Used to be like going after gold dust getting tickets to watch Ireland play.

I find this very sad.

Notch wrote:The fact that the IRFU have priced those tickets so low and are still struggling to sell speaks volumes about where our relationship with the national team is.

I find this very sad.

True. Get rid of the coaching team and there might be a feelgood factor. though.

Will it last? It seems like we demand nothing less than excellence. I think people will give a new regime a chance, but expectations are high. We are going through a real transition phase and the fans aren't very patient.

Maybe because Kidney sees transition as something to be done painfully slowly.

Just checking, a wee day out may be had now, cheers Jen.

was looking at Scotland V ireland 6 nations, £50 is cheapest i can find there

See a ticket for £20 for Argentina game as well.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Notch wrote:The fact that the IRFU have priced those tickets so low and are still struggling to sell speaks volumes about where our relationship with the national team is.

I find this very sad.

True. Get rid of the coaching team and there might be a feelgood factor. though.

As suppose to moving the best coach we have from his specialist role to one he has no credentials for and replacing him with a guy who's unproven at provincial level let alone International......

Have the provinces taken over Ireland. Yes to a degree. The IRFU wanted to make changes to the non Irish qualified players and the provinces kicked up a fuss over it.

Kingshu wrote:Just checking, a wee day out may be had now, cheers Jen.

was looking at Scotland V ireland 6 nations, £50 is cheapest i can find there

See a ticket for £20 for Argentina game as well.

Yep. Not that far behind the 30 juro ones either. Right up the back but on half way.

Because the upper tiers in LR are much steeper than Croker you are actually much nearer the pitch when you are up the back of the stand.

20 Juros must be only about a 5er in your money by now?

Its seems to be more the supporters in the provinces rather than the provinces themselves. A little bit of success at a level way below international and suddenly the expectation is that Ireland should be kicking above its weight in international terms. The one thing we have become is more consistent but over the last 10+ years there has still been only one
Keith Wood, BOD or POC that would have made it into a NZ team (possibly).

No one ever talks about club rugby in Ireland?

Why not?

I thought the price was now, if you bought it in £1 Sterling thats the number of yoyo's they gave you back.

I think Ferris now SOB and Bowe could have been good enough to get All Back call ups, (not as many caps as Ireland ones mind) Kearney would have been close too.

HERSH wrote:No one ever talks about club rugby in Ireland?

Why not?

They do but not on 606.

On 606 nobody would know what we are talking about.

Nobody ever talks about the English 3rd tier of rugby - why is that?

I have done in the past

HERSH wrote:No one ever talks about club rugby in Ireland?

Why not?

Actually a lot of the Ulster fans on here frequently talk about their club sides - Dungannon, Malone, Ballymena, Belfast Harlequins etc.

Ive seen them mentioned quite a few times, obviously nowhere near as much as provincial rugby though.

HERSH wrote:No one ever talks about club rugby in Ireland?

Why not?

I thought you'd never ask...so whats your thoughts on how Londonderry YMCA RFC will go this season?

Ireland are going to throw the 2 Internationals and rest HC standard players - correct. International is now our version of club rugby, it's a proving ground for future HC contenders.

SecretFly wrote:Ireland are going to throw the 2 Internationals and rest HC standard players - correct. International is now our version of club rugby, it's a proving ground for future HC contenders.

Just think... if Luke Marshall shines against the Boks he could get the call-up ahead of P. Wallace Ulsters away game to Treviso!

rodders wrote:

HERSH wrote:No one ever talks about club rugby in Ireland?

Why not?

I thought you'd never ask...so whats your thoughts on how Londonderry YMCA RFC will go this season?

Thats why I'm asking?

No one ever talks about it, Rugby is rugby at the end of the day be it grassroots or International, I often watch my local club play in NL2 South its part of being what a rugby fan is about.

I just think some of you have become so obsessed with the HC that nothing else matters.

e.g

"International is now our version of club rugby, it's a proving ground for future HC contenders."

Thats a little sad.

I want Paddy Jackson as flyhalf for the Boks game as Pienaar will have told his mates to go easy on him.....

HERSH wrote:
I just think some of you have become so obsessed with the HC that nothing else matters.
(

Not true I care about the Rabo too

I did care about the national side, but as the current head coach doesn't give a bollix about results and perfromances then there's not much point me losing sleep about them either.

HERSH wrote:
I just think some of you have become so obsessed with the HC that nothing else matters.

e.g

"International is now our version of club rugby, it's a proving ground for future HC contenders."

Thats a little sad.

.... it's also very much a joke, Hersh....

International's only obstacle right now is the coaching squad running it. So where does a guy go for some respite from the bad times? They go to something that's working....at least by the end of this season we hope it's still working!

SecretFly wrote:

HERSH wrote:
I just think some of you have become so obsessed with the HC that nothing else matters.

e.g

"International is now our version of club rugby, it's a proving ground for future HC contenders."

Thats a little sad.

.... it's also very much a joke, Hersh....

International's only obstacle right now is the coaching squad running it. So where does a guy go for some respite from the bad times? They go to something that's working....at least by the end of this season we hope it's still working!

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