Which Clubs Produced the England Squad?

It is rather straight forward to see what clubs the current 32 man squad are at:

Leicseter 8
Harlequins 6
Saracens 6
Northampton 5
Gloucester 2
Wasps 2
Bath 1
Exeter 1
London Irish 1

More interesting though is where were these players developed. In the main I have assigned a club based on where they were when they broke into the first team. You will notice that I have identified some players in more than one place - this is where they moved as an adult but the club they moved to deserves a lot of credit as well (please note Quins may have a case that they deserve credit for Danny Care) :

Harlequins 5 (Marler, Robshaw, Brown, Monye, JTH)
Newcastle 5 (Dowson, Parling, Wilson, Flood, Dickson)
Leicester 4 (Cole, Youngs x2, Manu)
Saracens 3 (Goode, Farrell, Botha, Vunipola)
Wasps 1 (Haskell)
Worcester 2 (Hartley, Wood)
Gloucester 2 (Allen, Sharples)
Northampton 1 1/2 (Lawes, Ashton)
Leeds 2 (Care, Palmer)
London Irish 1 (Joseph)
Scarlets 1 (Morgan)
Exeter 1/2 (Johnson)



South Africa 1 (Barritt)
New Zealand 1 (Waldrom)
Lower Leagues 1 (Johnson, Botha)
Bristol 1/2 (Vunipola)
RL 1/2 (Ashton)

Ah, the Tigers Feeder, sorry, I meant Newcastle are doing well.

you can't help feeling that if they actually hung on to a few players they'd do rather well at Premiership level - perhaps this year in the Championship will help some of their academy boys see that you don't have to go to a big team, staying at home can be just as rewarding.

where is Portnoy.

This is right down his alley

Proves that Newcastle always have a good academy. Shame they didn't have the money to hold onto all their players.

gooo baaaath !

Morgannwg wrote:Proves that Newcastle always have a good academy. Shame they didn't have the money to hold onto all their players.

Those that remember the John Hall days might argue that what goes around comes around... still, I do get where you are coming from and for what it's worth I think that succesful academies should be rewarded as well as the clubs that recruit the players afterwards.

Dont you worry....the Deano revolution is in full stride....and we will be back next season...a different animal to the one that left.

And we are already blooding a raft of youngsters from the rejuvenated academy....young Zach Kibirige starts on the wing tomorrow night 17yo Yarm school boy whos a real prospect.

Pfft - the only time Yarm boys run is when they chase their sisters.

LondonTiger wrote:Pfft - the only time Yarm boys run is when they chase their sisters.

Yes but by god his sister was quick!

Palmer is actually another product of the leeds academy I think, he was picked up when playing for Leeds Uni.

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:Palmer is actually another product of the leeds academy I think, he was picked up when playing for Leeds Uni.

You are right he was - I had forgotten.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Dont you worry....the Deano revolution is in full stride....and we will be back next season...a different animal to the one that left.

And we are already blooding a raft of youngsters from the rejuvenated academy....young Zach Kibirige starts on the wing tomorrow night 17yo Yarm school boy whos a real prospect.

Newcastle Kestrels?

Harsh, LT, harsh - TJ was with us for 3 years while in the Championship - think we deserve at least 2/3 if not a whole!

Stolen from the Drunken Wasps website


England U18 and U17 squads 2012-13 by Clubs

BATH 6 + 3 = 9
Alfie Barron (Millfield) (Bath Rugby)
Tom Ellis (Millfield) (Bath Rugby)
Charlie Ewels (Bryanston) (Bath Rugby)
Tom Woolstencroft (Bryanston) (Bath Rugby)
David Buck (Sherbone School) (Bath Rugby)
David Buck (Sherbone School) (Bath Rugby)
Max Clark (Bryanston School) (Bath Rugby) U17
Will Homer (Sherborne) (Bath Rugby) U17
Rory Jennings (Bryanston School) (Bath Rugby) U17

NORTHAMPTON 4 + 5 = 9
Reece Marshall (Moulton College) (Northampton Saints)
Jordan Onojaife (Stowe) (Northampton Saints)
Sam Olver (Oundle School) (Northampton Saints)
Howard Packman (Moulton College) (Northampton Saints)
Josh Peters (Oundle School) (Northampton Saints) U17
Karl Wilkins (St Joseph’s College) (Northampton Saints) U17
Austin Beckett (St Joseph’s College) (Northampton Saints) U17
Rotimi Segun (Northampton Sf (Northampton Saints) U17
George Wacokecoke (St Joseph’s College) (Northampton Saints) U17

WASPS 4 + 4 = 8
Alex Lundberg (Hampton School) (London Wasps)
Louis Clayton-Molloy (Harrow School) (London Wasps)
Tom Howe (Shiplake College) (London Wasps)
Richard Mathieson (St Pauls Barnes) (London Wasps)
Matt Blandford (Tonbridge) (London Wasps) U17
George Edgson (Hartpury College) (London Wasps) U17
Joel Harvey (Harrow School) (London Wasps) U17
Owain James (Harrow School) (London Wasps) U17

LEEDS 3 + 4 = 7
Paul Hill (Prince Henry's Grammar) (Leeds Carnegie)
Sam Allan (Crossley Heath School) (Leeds Carnegie)
Jack Walker (Prince Henry's) (Leeds Carnegie)
Guy Borrowdale (Prince Henry's) (Leeds Carnegie) U17
Lewis Boyce (Prince Henry's) (Leeds Carnegie) U17
Dan Preston-Routledge (Prince Henry's) (Leeds Carnegie) U17
Nick Rawsthorne (Prince Henry's) (Leeds Carnegie) U17

EXETER 4 +1 = 5
Matt Bolwell (Truro College) (Exeter Chiefs)
Luke Chapman (Truro College) (Exeter Chiefs)
Charlie Hewitt (Ivybridge College) (Exeter Chiefs)
Stuart Townsend (Ivybridge Community College) (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Turner (Ivybridge Community College) (Exeter Chiefs) U17

LONDON IRISH 1 + 4 = 5
Tom Fowlie (St Paul’s Catholic College) (London Irish)
Ollie Adams (St Paul’s Catholic College) (London Irish) U17
Theo Brophy-Clews (Abingdon School) (London Irish) U17
Brett Herron (Wellington College) (London Irish) U17
Harry Lightfoot-Brown (St Pauls College) (London Irish) U17

SARACENS 5 + 0 = 5
Maro Itoje (Harrow) (Saracens)
Sam James (Bishop's Stortford) (Saracens)
Nathan Earle (Oaklands College) (Saracens)
Josh Sharp (Oaklands College) (Saracens)
Nick Tompkins (Oaklands College) (Saracens)

SALE 3 + 1 = 4
Jonny Kenny (Macclesfield) (Sale Sharks)
Cameron Neild (Manchester Grammar) (Sale Sharks)
James Mitchell (Lymm School) (Sale Sharks)
Ciaran Parker (St Ambrose) (Sale Sharks) U17

HARLEQUINS 1 + 3 = 4
James Chisholm (Brighton College) (Harlequins)
Seb Adeniran-Olule (Wellington College) (Harlequins) U17
Henry Cheeseman (Whitgift) (Harlequins) U17
Josh Ibuanokpe (Dulwich College) (Harlequins) U17

WORCESTER 1 + 2 = 3
Andrew Boyce (Kings Worcester) (Worcester Warriors)
Sam Smith (Old Swinford Hospital) (Worcester Warriors) U17
Huw Taylor (Old Swinford Hospital) (Worcester Warriors) U17

LEICESTER 2 + 1 = 3
Will Owen (QE Leicester) (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Hudson (QE Leicester) (Leicester Tigers)
Charlie Beckett (QE Leicester) (Leicester Tigers) U17

NEWCASTLE 1 + 1 = 2
Zach Kibirige [Yarm School] [Newcastle Falcons]
Luke Wilson (Brinkburn College) (Newcastle Falcons) U17

GLOUCESTER 0 + 2 = 2
Sam Underhill (Sir Thomas Rich’s School) (Gloucester Rugby) U17
Ollie Thorley (Cheltenham College) (Gloucester Rugby) U17

BRISTOL 1 + 0 = 1
Nick Carpenter (Filton College) (Bristol Rugby)

Jack Maplesden (Woodhouse Grove) (Unattached) U17

I always wonder how much credit clubs should take for U17/U18 - especially when they are at public schools.

Good to see Bath ands Saints with such good representation, as their academies haven't been hugely productive in recent years.

On the full England squad interesting to see how players are mainly being drawn from the top clubs in the AP - this hasn't always been the case.

LondonTiger wrote:I always wonder how much credit clubs should take for U17/U18 - especially when they are at public schools.

But wouldn't quite a few be at public schools on scholarships organised in part by the clubs, like Billy Vunipola when he transferred from the Bristol academy and ended up at Harrow?

By the look of some of the people in the squad I would say Taranaki, Waikat or the Blue Bulls would be more accurate

LondonTiger wrote:I always wonder how much credit clubs should take for U17/U18 - especially when they are at public schools.

This is a recognised through out all sports at the moment LT - Auntie did quite a good peice after the Olympics that showed not just a disproportionate amount of athletes came from public shool background, but a MASSIVE disproportion. IIRC about 80/20 split, or there abouts.

Both Quins and Sarries i know work a lot with state school kids in their extra-curricular and out reach programs, but there needs to be a a big shift in attitude, which will be a long time coming before this trend changes.

It worries me a little bit that Saracens have 0 players in the U17 squad.

At least we have the legendary Maro Itoje who is praised from the rooftops by Lancaster.

AlastairW it's difficult changing perceptions. I think accessibility is the main problem.

Competing with football is very difficult, you can literally play football anywhere.

Rugby is also a much more physical sport, the threat of injury is much higher.

To attract a wider audience rugby needs to become more popular.

This starts with the clubs.

'At least we have the legendary Maro Itoje who is praised from the rooftops by Lancaster.'

Blimey a legend at 17! He's doing well.

Big wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Proves that Newcastle always have a good academy. Shame they didn't have the money to hold onto all their players.

I think that succesful academies should be rewarded as well as the clubs that recruit the players afterwards.

Great idea, especially considering the amount of young welsh players the regions are providing for other England and France.

Part of the reason Private schoools provide so much sport talent is because they have sports usually 3/4 times a week plus after school clubs & for rugby often play at local clubs on a Sunday.So exposed to alot more sport from a young age.Is'nt their a quote about something like do 10000 hrs of practice & you would have atop athlete

maestegmafia wrote:

Big wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Proves that Newcastle always have a good academy. Shame they didn't have the money to hold onto all their players.

I think that succesful academies should be rewarded as well as the clubs that recruit the players afterwards.

Great idea, especially considering the amount of young welsh players the regions are providing for other England and France.

Who are the young Welsh players in France?

broadlandboy wrote:Part of the reason Private schoools provide so much sport talent is because they have sports usually 3/4 times a week plus after school clubs & for rugby often play at local clubs on a Sunday.So exposed to alot more sport from a young age.Is'nt their a quote about something like do 10000 hrs of practice & you would have atop athlete

Good grief... don't even get me started on that, not just for success in sport but for success in all walks of life. In my opinion the enormous glaringly obvious difference between state and private schools is the extra curricular work that means they don't just come out with qualifications, but also with wider interests, the confidence and initiative to get involved and make things happen and, for lack of a better phrase, the life skills and networks needed to be successful. I cannot for the life of me understand why the public sector is so reluctant to emulate the one thing that clearly seperates private and state schooling, and clearly gives those from private schools an advantage in life.

Big wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:Part of the reason Private schoools provide so much sport talent is because they have sports usually 3/4 times a week plus after school clubs & for rugby often play at local clubs on a Sunday.So exposed to alot more sport from a young age.Is'nt their a quote about something like do 10000 hrs of practice & you would have atop athlete

Good grief... don't even get me started on that, not just for success in sport but for success in all walks of life. In my opinion the enormous glaringly obvious difference between state and private schools is the extra curricular work that means they don't just come out with qualifications, but also with wider interests, the confidence and initiative to get involved and make things happen and, for lack of a better phrase, the life skills and networks needed to be successful. I cannot for the life of me understand why the public sector is so reluctant to emulate the one thing that clearly seperates private and state schooling, and clearly gives those from private schools an advantage in life.

Its probably got a lot to do with money, but it would be interesting to see if the public sector 'could' make a private sector schooling model work.

Big
+1
Jimpy
Look up Whymondham College
I think that it is more to do with an adult taking an interest,whether parent, grandparent,teacher or coach

As someone who attended a public school that has produced a lot of internationals in the last 30 years or so (army scholorship) I have my views on the advantages and disadvantages of the system. They probably diverge from Big's, as my experiences turned me into a socialist


I know public schools producs a lot of sportsmen - but at times it means when you look at U17 level it is the school not the club producing the player. Take Jordan Crane - attended colston's (where Andy Robinson used to teach) so was officially linked with Bath. However in holidays and after leaving school he was with Leeds.

That All Blacks test is going to have a nasty effect on your HEC chances in the third round...!

Leicseter 8
Harlequins 6
Saracens 6
Northampton 5

That is a sizeable amount of names from each club returning late for HEC duty. Same problem in Wales.