The Lions Number 10.

First topic message reminder :

I know this may already have been covered. but who do you think will be the Lions number 10?

Listening to rugby club the other day, they mentioned Charlie Hodgson as a possible number 10.

But what about players like Andy Goode. the ex Leicester player..Or Stephen Jones the ex Welsh player.

Are all these too old to be in contention for a Lions call up. Should who ever the Lions 10 is be one of a younger player. Sexton, Flood, Biggar, Priestland etc etc.

Who in your mind is the most likely to be the Lions 10?

Wilko played 12 in the first test ahead of the orange one. BOD got speared and Greenwood came on and played 13. Jones was at 10.

Second test Wilko moved to 10 to accommodate Gav, who was paired with Alfie in the centre.

Didn't make a jot of difference to the result mind you.

What result? The Lions lost? Again?

I think The Wildebeests might be a better compromise name for them.

Wilkinson, Burns and Hodgson all get on the plane

Another Glos fan.
Burns definitely developing - on the right curve to be in time for the squad.
I'm a Wilko fan... see my BS on the Hersh thread... but is it just a little too late for Jonny ?

Sorry, why are we talking about Wilkinson? Seriously, Int retirement aside, he hasn't reinvented himself. So picking him against Oz would be worse than picking him against the AB's 7 years ago. SWC madness then and it would be absolutely farking bonkers now. he is past it. the game has moved on. Just like it would be ridiculous for me to suggest ROG go, it is equally insane re Wilko.

As for who will be the Test 10, injuries and a LOT of rugby between now & June notwithstanding, Sexton, then Flood and the Biggar with Priestland currently not at his best. But things can change quickly enough, the Autumn Ints, the next 4 rounds of HC and the 6N will provide MUCH more food for thought and thus this debate is pointless enough at the moment. But Sexton is in pole position right now as the most complete 10 as things stand.

rodders wrote:Wilko played 12 in the first test ahead of the orange one. BOD got speared and Greenwood came on and played 13. Jones was at 10.

Second test Wilko moved to 10 to accommodate Gav, who was paired with Alfie in the centre.

Didn't make a jot of difference to the result mind you.

Henson was on the pitch for about twenty minutes before leaving with concussion, awful game in Lions history, from a tour we'd all rather forget....

Sexton is in pole position, with Flood next - but frankly neither have been that convincing on international form. Priestland will be lucky to hold his Welsh place. Biggar could break through - he has the ability - but hasn't done it yet. Jones and O'Gara are done. Wilkinson is playing at a high standard in a tough league, which is why he is potentially in the mix.

In wales I would say both Biggar and Priestland have their faults but both can be excellent too. In consistency is the issue. We might well see another guy break through in Wales this season and take the 10 shirt...

Its all up for grabs...

I usually like to see the half backs from the same country in these situations as I'd like a headstart on familiarity. With that in mind, the options that spring to mind are;

a - Philips & Biggar
b - Care/Youngs & Flood/Farrell
c - Murray & Sexton
d - ? & Laidlaw

If Gatland wants a physical 9 with defensive abilties then it is 'a' or 'c' in my mind, with him probably nudging towards Philips.

If he wants more of a quick service/sniping 9 it will more likely be an English combination (though Reddan & Sexton could fit the bill, I don't reckon a lad like Reddan gets the nod here).

I also can't see how a bolter would occur at such a pivotal position. Madigan/Keatley/Jackson/Ford/Goode/Burns all fall off the list of possibilities for that reason (unless injuries bring them into starting internationals in AI or 6N).

I would say that Marshall of Ulster is a very very good candidate for scrum half. I would hope to see him push Murray very hard for Ireland over the next eight games prior to the Lions squad selection.

Marshall, Care and Phillips are my current favourites.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I usually like to see the half backs from the same country in these situations

The Lions won in Australia with Jones & Andrew and won again in South Africa with Dawson & Townsend. There's no reason to go with a pairing from one country for the sake of it.

Funny there was me thinking it was 15 a side. Familiarity helps but its not the be all end all

If Care can stay out of trouble I'd like to see him start with Phillps on the bench as an impact sub. Always thought it would work well with Wales but Gatts seems to prefer having a smaller, quicker scrum half come on for the last 15 mins.

Liam

Will phillips actualy be in/on the Lions tour? I do understand that at the Moment he(Phillips)is not in very good form.

I do agree that this could all change between now and when the Lions tour comes around. But if Gatland is going to pick on FORM, Then at this moment he should not be considered.

majesticimperialman wrote:Liam

Will phillips actualy be in/on the Lions tour? I do understand that at the Moment he(Phillips)is not in very good form.

I do agree that this could all change between now and when the Lions tour comes around. But if Gatland is going to pick on FORM, Then at this moment he should not be considered.

Really?

Do you watch the Top 14 much?

He looked great for Bayonne at Rodney Parade the other day. Id say he is very likely one of the fore runners.

Really?

Do you watch the Top 14 much?

He looked great for Bayonne at Rodney Parade the other day. Id say he is very likely one of the fore runners

maestegmafia

I will be honest with you, i have not seen mutch of Phillips this season.
I am just going on what other people have been saying about him.

It wasnt that long a go that he got banned from Bayonne for breaking the clubs rules. right.

majesticimperialman wrote:It wasnt that long a go that he got banned from Bayonne for breaking the clubs rules. right.

Its was only for about a day

majesticimperialman wrote:Really?

Do you watch the Top 14 much?

He looked great for Bayonne at Rodney Parade the other day. Id say he is very likely one of the fore runners

maestegmafia

I will be honest with you, i have not seen mutch of Phillips this season.
I am just going on what other people have been saying about him.

It wasnt that long a go that he got banned from Bayonne for breaking the clubs rules. right.

Not many have seen Phillips because he has been banned & apart from that Bayonne are struggling. His first games back were against Moglianno & the Dragons in the Amlin.

Report before thebDragons game,

"Phillips will be desperate to play following criticism of his supposed poor form in France – Bayonne supporters booed him off when he was substituted recently....."

He is a forerunner because 'on his day' hes a guy who is capable of turning matches single handed and of course hes been working with Gatland for a long time now. I dont know how often the big occasions come now- more and more of the reports about him are not good.

It just seems to be a question of convincing the management that hes still got it in him to play at his best when the stakes are highest.

lostinwales wrote:He is a forerunner because 'on his day' hes a guy who is capable of turning matches single handed and of course hes been working with Gatland for a long time now. I dont know how often the big occasions come now- more and more of the reports about him are not good.

It just seems to be a question of convincing the management that hes still got it in him to play at his best when the stakes are highest.

Yes I agree. But these are the real tough calls the Lions Management have to make.

Do you choose on reputation & loyalty or do you reward consistency & form. Tough decisions but for me if players haven't shown consistent enough form then reward those that have.
It's not as if we are struggling for choice & at SH like most positions we have a number of more than adequate alternatives.

AIs & 6Ns will assist in these decisions no doubt.

Tough decisions will be a lot easier when we have had the international season, rather than anticipating it.

maestegmafia wrote:Tough decisions will be a lot easier when we have had the international season, rather than anticipating it.

Precisely why some like myself have held back on selecting Lions sides.

Most people realise who is playing well now. Can they reproduce it in the internationals?

Its all a bit of fun at the moment. I imagine their will be hundreds of these threads developing over the next six months. It will be interesting to watch the developments.

A lot of players have a great opportunity and just as many have a lot to prove.

I don't think anyone is nailed on in any starting position yet. There are so many good players around.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

lostinwales wrote:He is a forerunner because 'on his day' hes a guy who is capable of turning matches single handed and of course hes been working with Gatland for a long time now. I dont know how often the big occasions come now- more and more of the reports about him are not good.

It just seems to be a question of convincing the management that hes still got it in him to play at his best when the stakes are highest.

Yes I agree. But these are the real tough calls the Lions Management have to make.

Do you choose on reputation & loyalty or do you reward consistency & form. Tough decisions but for me if players haven't shown consistent enough form then reward those that have.
It's not as if we are struggling for choice & at SH like most positions we have a number of more than adequate alternatives.

AIs & 6Ns will assist in these decisions no doubt.

This is what i have been trying to say all along.

No body, No body, should get chosen for ther Lions on reputation, or out of loyalty.

It should be the best players and the players that are chosen should be on "FORM" no matter what country they are from. He ( Warren Gatland) should not choose Phillips simply because Phillips is Welsh and Gatland is Wales head coach.

If Phillips is the best player at the time the Lions team is selected. Then i have no problem with that.

majesticimperialman wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

lostinwales wrote:He is a forerunner because 'on his day' hes a guy who is capable of turning matches single handed and of course hes been working with Gatland for a long time now. I dont know how often the big occasions come now- more and more of the reports about him are not good.

It just seems to be a question of convincing the management that hes still got it in him to play at his best when the stakes are highest.

Yes I agree. But these are the real tough calls the Lions Management have to make.

Do you choose on reputation & loyalty or do you reward consistency & form. Tough decisions but for me if players haven't shown consistent enough form then reward those that have.
It's not as if we are struggling for choice & at SH like most positions we have a number of more than adequate alternatives.

AIs & 6Ns will assist in these decisions no doubt.

This is what i have been trying to say all along.

No body, No body, should get chosen for ther Lions on reputation, or out of loyalty.

It should be the best players and the players that are chosen should be on "FORM" no matter what country they are from. He ( Warren Gatland) should not choose Phillips simply because Phillips is Welsh and Gatland is Wales head coach.

If Phillips is the best player at the time the Lions team is selected. Then i have no problem with that.

I think peoples opinions are the other way. That they expect Phillips and similar players like Roberts, who are not in their bet form, to hit their best form in time. As they have done so so many times before when it counts.

Phillips has been poor at club level for years . He was dropped by the O's in his last season there, and as mentioned has been poor at Bayonne. Off-field antics have not helped. At the same time, though, he has stepped it up at international level and made some great contributions, such as his crucial try versus Ireland in the WC.

Having said that, I think the flaws in his game - slowness and indecision in distribution, useless box-kicks - are getting worse. He is in the Lions frame for the same reasons as Wilkinson - because there are few other strong candidates.

For Australia, in contrast, half-backs are an area of huge strength. They have the best scrum-half in the world, who completely outplayed MP on Wales' recent tour. At 10 they have a choice between Quade Cooper - who on form is an astonishing player - Beale, Barnes and O'Connor. Meanhwile Matt Giteau is still only 30. Frankly every one of those 10s is a class above the NH guys at the moment.

Good shout.

Hense why I am saying that looking at younger in tested players is a must.

Paul Marshall Ulster 9

Paddy Jackson Ulster 10

Ian Madigan Leinster 10

Gareth Davies Scarlets 9

Rhys Patchell Blues 10

Steffan Jones Dragons 10

All good options that show potential.

Would have to add Freddie Burns to that list

bambamwillis wrote:Would have to add Freddie Burns to that list

Yes exactly.

There are a large number of lads who should be added.

To be honest I really think they are all under introspection and evaluation.