Respect the kicker, start respecting the crowd.

Tom Court got all puffy chested after scoring his try for Ulster against Dragons, (clearly over the manshaming England handed him in the six nations)
and told the crowd to sshh!!
Now this makes my blood boil ,seen players like Gareth Edwards score individual trys of brilliance then get up shrug off the pats on his back and jog back to his own half looking at the floor not only shows great humility but it also shows real Rugby sportsmanship.

If i was a coach and a player of mine did anything to toward the crowd that showed disrespect i would tear a strip out of his ego and remind him of what we are all about.

What do you guys think?

In Edward's day the opposition fans would have been applauding his try. Nowadays they are giving the try scorer vile abuse.

It used to annoy me - and I was critical of Ben Youngs when he did it at the Parc y Scarlets. But I am not sure why we should expect the players to show no emotion when crowds are as abusive as they are. I am not suggestingthat players should be allowed to incite crowds - but when a section has been abusing you all match is cupping an ear or putting a finger over your mouth really that bad?

viewtothegym wrote:Tom Court got all puffy chested after scoring his try for Ulster against Dragons, (clearly over the manshaming England handed him in the six nations)
and told the crowd to sshh!!
Now this makes my blood boil ,seen players like Gareth Edwards score individual trys of brilliance then get up shrug off the pats on his back and jog back to his own half looking at the floor not only shows great humility but it also shows real Rugby sportsmanship.

If i was a coach and a player of mine did anything to toward the crowd that showed disrespect i would tear a strip out of his ego and remind him of what we are all about.

What do you guys think?

Lighten up.

The part in bold is not even remotely relevant, you're just embarrassing yourself.

This has been discussed and put to bed on the match thread. He shouldn't have done it, he's come out and apologised, he shushed the quietest part of the ground, it was football-esque and we don't like that, etc.

Lets move on.

I thought what a t*t at the time but it isn't uncommon to see these things. He did post an apology via Twitter (so I'm told), so fairplay to the guy.

LondonTiger wrote:In Edward's day the opposition fans would have been applauding his try. Nowadays they are giving the try scorer vile abuse.

It used to annoy me - and I was critical of Ben Youngs when he did it at the Parc y Scarlets. But I am not sure why we should expect the players to show no emotion when crowds are as abusive as they are. I am not suggestingthat players should be allowed to incite crowds - but when a section has been abusing you all match is cupping an ear or putting a finger over your mouth really that bad?

I haven't been to Welford road for a while but I certainly haven't noticed players getting "abuse" for scoring tries at the other grounds I have been too over the last few years.

That is not very rugby like behaviour at all.

I didn't have the benefit of seeing it until yesterday (on Scrum V), but saw a photo of it. I thought he was a bit of an idiot after just seeing the photo, but after reading his apology was less bothered. But seeing as he actually prolonged his shush and was actually moving his moronic fathead whilst doing it, I am back in the mindset again that the guy was an idiot.

That said, I'm sure the Ulster players wound him up about it and he feels a bit of a twp for doing it.

MM not specifically for scoring the try - but in general through the match I find that crowds everywhere are far more insulting than they used to be. Certainly they rarely applaud opposition tries.

LondonTiger wrote:MM not specifically for scoring the try - but in general through the match I find that crowds everywhere are far more insulting than they used to be. Certainly they rarely applaud opposition tries.

Sounds like you should come up to Wales a bit more. It's friendly banter there. Not soccer style jeering.

Most places...!

Sadly my last visit to a match in wales was MS - against Argentina pre RWC, different sort of crowd to club level I am sure, but not pleasant.

Many celebrations have come in to the game since professionalism.

The 'splash' is notable (not by any means the preserve of Ashton, but since pitching up at Sarries and England's Farrell influence, there's precious little evidence of it).

Many people would like to see a spectacular howler in the act of the splash.

Didn't lil Shane do a fine one against Samoa in a RWC game that nearly went t*ts-up?

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:MM not specifically for scoring the try - but in general through the match I find that crowds everywhere are far more insulting than they used to be. Certainly they rarely applaud opposition tries.

Sounds like you should come up to Wales a bit more. It's friendly banter there. Not soccer style jeering.

Most places...!

Apart from at Arms park who boo'd Toulon in HC R2, boo'd Armitage all game long even after the TMO showed an accidental, boo'd the kicker, and boo'd the visiting team going in at half time. Classy display there Maest, i'm sure you'll find some way to sugar coat it for yourself though.

LT's pretty much bang on the money.

AlastairW wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:MM not specifically for scoring the try - but in general through the match I find that crowds everywhere are far more insulting than they used to be. Certainly they rarely applaud opposition tries.

Sounds like you should come up to Wales a bit more. It's friendly banter there. Not soccer style jeering.

Most places...!

Apart from at Arms park who boo'd Toulon in HC R2, boo'd Armitage all game long even after the TMO showed an accidental, boo'd the kicker, and boo'd the visiting team going in at half time. Classy display there Maest, i'm sure you'll find some way to sugar coat it for yourself though.

LT's pretty much bang on the money.

I haven't been to the Arms park since it was the Blues home last time round.

Been to the Liberty, Rec, PYS, Adams Park, and a few others over the last few years and have not heard anything disrespectfull from the stands.

Good banter yes, but usually aimed at home, away teams and ref by everyone.

I've been at the REC most this year. All good behaviour there.

What i love about rugby union is that this is a topic of conversation, we all realise he has been a bit of a numpty and so did the player so he apologisied about it afterwards..... as supposed to i dunno...players being racist to players...referees being racist to players....crowd being racist to players......members of the crowd storming onto the pitch and assalting players..players and coaches involved in post match brawls which result in criminal charges...members of the crowd throwing missles at players.....mass fan chants about stadium disasters and air crashes...(all happened in the last 3 weeks). Sorry if this is out of the blue but the headlines coming from the news recently are just beyond belief.

maestegmafia wrote:I've been at the REC most this year. All good behaviour there.

Fair do's. If you can catch a replay of the Blues vs. Toulon then give it a go; i was really looking forward to it as one of my matches of the weekend with a great array of NH international level players with scatterings of SH internationals lined up against each other. Not just that but it spanned the 'young' & 'older' internationals.

The 'host' crowd boo'd and jeered the whole time at Toulon, boo'd Armitage every touch of the ball after an accidental high tackle (which was TMO'd for all there to see), boo'd Wilko kicking after the home team ceeded penalties, even boo'd them as they went into the tunnel at half time. If i'd seen that at the Stoop i would have been sorely let down tbh.

sirtidychris wrote:What i love about rugby union is that this is a topic of conversation, we all realise he has been a bit of a numpty and so did the player so he apologisied about it afterwards..... as supposed to i dunno...players being racist to players...referees being racist to players....crowd being racist to players......members of the crowd storming onto the pitch and assalting players..players and coaches involved in post match brawls which result in criminal charges...members of the crowd throwing missles at players.....mass fan chants about stadium disasters and air crashes...(all happened in the last 3 weeks). Sorry if this is out of the blue but the headlines coming from the news recently are just beyond belief.

Yeah, but we're just jealous of Football's success, it's not them that have the issue it's everyone else. Apparently.

Always found the Dragons the best crowd, full of banter but always applaud the opposition tries and penalties,
but saying that for every hand full of good fans you get one idiot regardless of the country.

But Court should have know better, we don't do that in rugby he is in the limelight and should not encourage such behavior.

LondonTiger wrote:Sadly my last visit to a match in wales was MS - against Argentina pre RWC, different sort of crowd to club level I am sure, but not pleasant.

Not wanting tos sound disrespectful but you can't count a Welsh crowd at the MS as rugby fans, they tend to be suits and pink hat brigade just out for a handful too many drinks and the chance to say I was there if the team win, and most of them would be hard pressed to tell you who they welsh players were and where they play (regionally), and would most likely have no clue as to who the opposition players were.

I took a mate, who was an international only fan, to see the Blues V Cardiff a few years ago and he was exceptionally rude and abusive (repeatedly questioning Rush, well oi number 8, about his sexuality, and the ligitimacy of his birth etc), but since going to a handful of other games he has learnt the right way to concuct himself at matches, and does applaud the oppositions tries, pens etc.

Hmmmm.... I've seen a Welsh player or two indulge in the old firebrand post-score tally-ho-to-the-enemy celebration in my time.

Do the crowd want to be involved or not? If they want some of the action, sometimes they get it. And then they get all principled and don't like it? Methinks the mouthy might be protesting too much

Passion got the best of Court and he has allegedly apologised for the rush of blood. (I personally wish he'd show as much passion when wearing Green, but that's another story). Did any of the nice fans in the crowd get onto Twitter to apologise for what they were undoubtedly shouting during the game when their blood was up? - No?

Respect the kicker, respect the crowd, respect the players?

Ain't gonna happen!!

SecretFly wrote:Hmmmm.... I've seen a Welsh player or two indulge in the old firebrand post-score tally-ho-to-the-enemy celebration in my time.

Do the crowd want to be involved or not? If they want some of the action, sometimes they get it. And then they get all principled and don't like it? Methinks the mouthy might be protesting too much

Passion got the best of Court and he has allegedly apologised for the rush of blood. (I personally wish he'd show as much passion when wearing Green, but that's another story). Did any of the nice fans in the crowd get onto Twitter to apologise for what they were undoubtedly shouting during the game when their blood was up? - No?

Respect the kicker, respect the crowd, respect the players?

Ain't gonna happen!!

What were the crowd doing in this instance then?

Protesting at the fact the first try was forward/knocked on probably.

I was....

Blimey, it must be a slow news day.

Risca Rev wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Hmmmm.... I've seen a Welsh player or two indulge in the old firebrand post-score tally-ho-to-the-enemy celebration in my time.

Do the crowd want to be involved or not? If they want some of the action, sometimes they get it. And then they get all principled and don't like it? Methinks the mouthy might be protesting too much

Passion got the best of Court and he has allegedly apologised for the rush of blood. (I personally wish he'd show as much passion when wearing Green, but that's another story). Did any of the nice fans in the crowd get onto Twitter to apologise for what they were undoubtedly shouting during the game when their blood was up? - No?

Respect the kicker, respect the crowd, respect the players?

Ain't gonna happen!!

What were the crowd doing in this instance then?

? We all know what gets said in the midst of a passionate crowd. I'm saying Twitter rarely grinds to a halt under the pressure of all the guilty apologies for bad language and insults that might have been uttered the day before....

Have we heard from Tom Court himself, or from anyone else for that matter, that the home crowd were heckling him? From my position on the Hazell Terrace, it looked like the majority of the crowd on the North Stand were Ulster supporters.

(No, I'm not suggesting that it was Ulster fans he was shushing; but I don't like the assumption that the home crowd en masse were hurling abuse at him.)

Maybe it was a political statement. We all know how much symbolism there is regarding the Hand in ulster.

Maybe he was just kissing his hand to show his love of all things Ulster?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Have we heard from Tom Court himself, or from anyone else for that matter, that the home crowd were heckling him? From my position on the Hazell Terrace, it looked like the majority of the crowd on the North Stand were Ulster supporters.

(No, I'm not suggesting that it was Ulster fans he was shushing; but I don't like the assumption that the home crowd en masse were hurling abuse at him.)

I'm speaking in the general if those comments were directed at me, Luckless. Crowds are crowds - crowds get into games, crowds aren't usually populated with saints; they're human. Some good humans, some very good, some mouthy, some obnoxious. - but everyone likes to yell or protest or jeer and all the other stuff. Some keep it clean, some keep it funny and other go for it down the other avenue of jeering, shouting all sorts, using nice language etc. Don't tell me I'm wrong - I'm not.

So, in that sense of understanding the needs of a crowd, the diversity of a crowd and what can emanate from a crowd - yeah, it can be a little rich pointing out a player and saying he shamed himself.
I don't condone the football antics he got up to but I'll guarantee you he wasn't alone on the night. The crowd is always the innocents, it seems. One of my favourite moments was Eric Cantona 'saying' it ain't so - I agree with him

I'm old school - I don't like these antics. I don't like exuberant celebrations, splashdowns or anything else. Just get on with the game and don't get involved with the crowd.

Then again I'm just a grumpy old git with too many opinions............

SecretFly wrote:One of my favourite moments was Eric Cantona 'saying' it ain't so - I agree with him

I used to have a poster of that.

People don't look up to rugby crowds though, do they.

LondonTiger wrote:Sadly my last visit to a match in wales was MS - against Argentina pre RWC, different sort of crowd to club level I am sure, but not pleasant.

I was there that day. The match and atmosphere was good. The idiots were outside the stadium on this day. Some drunk guys climbing all over a tank for example. I had a good day though, had a lovely meal in Tiger Tiger to start the day off.

SecretFly wrote:One of my favourite moments was Eric Cantona 'saying' it ain't so - I agree with him

I guess that means you appreciated Trevor Brennan disagreeing with fans too?

To be honest Court did a bit of a football (or even WWE bad guy) style celebration, but I would be willing to bet he was not on the recieving end of any nasty comments from the crowd aimed at him personally. More just the moaning and grumbling that crowds make 'come on that was forward', 'he dropped it', 'it was held on at the last ruck' etc etc.

"Not wanting tos sound disrespectful but you can't count a Welsh crowd at the MS as rugby fans"

Haha soo true!!!!

Not a fan of showing off to opposition fans but Im a massive fan of players getting their own fans going..

I remember when the Dragons beat the O's a couple of years back n we scored really early n as it went to TMO Tovey was waving his hands to the crowd asking for more noise.. What an electric atmosphere it was that night..

crowds boo'ing the opposition?
hurling abuse at players?

what???

I'm not one of the old buggers on the wrong side of 40 (sorry lads) and I don't boo a team for scoring. I still applaud if it has been a well worked or hard fought out try. I'll even appluad the englanders if they score

I don't applaud silly tries like interceptions as I'm too busy screaming thorugh gritted teeth at the numpty who caused it

But I never disrespect an opposition player! Nor have I seen it at club level up here.

I applaud visitors' penalty kicks, never mind tries.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I applaud visitors' penalty kicks, never mind tries.

Me too Lucky.

Since you have told us that it was mostly Ulster fans at the end where Court did his Shhhing I think it reinforces the thought that he was merely entreating the Ulster supporters to keep the volume of their cheering down.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:One of my favourite moments was Eric Cantona 'saying' it ain't so - I agree with him

I guess that means you appreciated Trevor Brennan disagreeing with fans too?

I guess I mean some guys, and actions, and reasons for actions, I like; and some guys, and actions, and reasons for actions, I don't like - bedads! I'm human too! But don't stretch it to suggest I like 'all thugs'. Eric is all I was talking about.

There was a group of them with a Northern Ireland flag and a South African flag. Maybe he was miffed that there wasn't an Australian one.

He was probably fed up of them singing that song they pinched off us.

Risca Rev wrote:He was probably fed up of them singing that song they pinched off us.

LondonTiger wrote:Sadly my last visit to a match in wales was MS - against Argentina pre RWC, different sort of crowd to club level I am sure, but not pleasant.

Why?

I was at the game it was fantastic, good Argie performance and Wales were in great spirits. It was a great match and the crowd seemed fine from what I remember.

I can't see how anyone can claim their crowd is innocent. If you took a back seat in any stadium you would notice some idiot. Examples being the leinster fans throwing bottles of water at ospreys players as they left the field in the rabo final (HT), or the little old lady telling ashton where to shove his swan dive in the LV cup at the Brewery. It is my opinion that the players should rise above it. But I don't think there are fans that can claim the moral high ground for their club or nation.

I take the OP and his deputies feel the same way every time Mike Phillips does his footballesque try celebrations? Shane Williams must be loathed in Wales for his dramatic swallow dives and front rolls, good job they both got outta town!!

Alfie invented the mo-bot in the act of scoring so I assume he's a wanted man too? Scott Gibbs for the fist in the air before scoring at Wembley?

To be fair to Alfie and Scott there was no twitter to apologise back then I suppose...

Fair play lads for not letting it go!I say round em up and hang 'em high!

Rodders: those try celebrations have no comparison to what court did.

sheephead wrote:Rodders: those try celebrations have no comparison to what court did.

To be fair Court didn't do a Castinged (sorry I can't spell at all) when he scored against the English, which the trotting along (high knees) with giving the fans (and players) a one finger salute (with both hands) and sticking his tounge out. That was pretty disrespectful, and pretty funny at the same time.

Players deserve to be allowed to interact with the crowd, to a point, and deserve to abe able to celebrate scoring their tries. One of the best intereactions I have seen was Doncha Ryan for Munster at PYS last season, a member of the crowd was getting frustrated with the breakdowns and shouted something alongthe lines of 'Ref they are sealing off every ruck, look for it they're pretty damn good at it' and with that Ryan, who was standing near the touchline turned to the crowd, roughly where the shout game from, and with a huge grin stuck his thumb up and nodded. That got a little chuckle from most us one-eyed turks in the stand.

sheephead wrote:Rodders: those try celebrations have no comparison to what court did.

In your eyes sheephead. From other eyes they can and often are construed as middle-fingers of one sort or other. Celebration and the innocence of them is in the eye of the beholder.

I've always liked the cool hand Luke celebration myself... ground it and walk or jog back to position ready to concentrate on the restart. (I detest players who lose concentration after a try is scored) The ball going over the line does the celebration for you and you stay cool and noble - my preference.

But everyone to their own... if a player feels like a swan who am I to say he should feel different - it's him scoring.

Gesturing to the crowd is ok for Phillips but not Court? Please do elaborate sheephead.

Personally I don't like to see any of that stuff at all and am glad Court has publically acknowledged the err of his ways.

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander though and it seems the actions of some a bit players closer to home have slipped under the OPs radar a bit.... those in glass houses and all that....

Rodders what are you talking about? Alfie - mo-bot??? It was the ayatollah FFS - get your post try celebration trivia right

rodders wrote:I take the OP and his deputies feel the same way every time Mike Phillips does his footballesque try celebrations? Shane Williams must be loathed in Wales for his dramatic swallow dives and front rolls, good job they both got outta town!!

Alfie invented the mo-bot in the act of scoring so I assume he's a wanted man too? Scott Gibbs for the fist in the air before scoring at Wembley?

To be fair to Alfie and Scott there was no twitter to apologise back then I suppose...

Fair play lads for not letting it go!I say round em up and hang 'em high!

Bit of a difference between a back doing it and a supposedly gnarly prop forward acting "footballesque" though, but there you go.

SecretFly wrote:The ball going over the line does the celebration for you

Well said - although if it's a late match- or cup-winning try, then you can forgive a bit of exuberance.

I'm surprised we haven't heard Hanno Dirksen's name mentioned yet on this thread.