Wales vs Argentina KO 14:30 Sat 10th Nov - TEAM ANNOUNCED

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WALES V ARGENTINA

Venue: Millennium Stadium Cardiff Date: Saturday, 10 November Kick-off: 14:30 GMT

Coverage: Live on BBC One Wales & online; live on S4C; live commentary on BBC Radio Wales & online; live commentary on Radio Cymru

Wales Team

L Halfpenny (Blues), A Cuthbert (Blues), S Williams (Scarlets), J Roberts (Blues), G North (Scarlets); R Priestland (Scarlets), T Knoyle (Scarlets); G Jenkins (RC Toulon), M Rees (Scarlets), A Jarvis (Ospreys), A W Jones (Ospreys), I Evans (Ospreys), J Turnbull (Scarlets), S Warburton (Blues & Captain), T Faletau (Dragons)

Replacements: R Hibbard (Ospreys), R Bevington (Ospreys), P James (Bath RFC), R McCusker (Scarlets), J Tipuric (Ospreys), M Phillips (RC Bayonne), J Hook (USA Perpignan), L Williams (Scarlets)


Argentina Team

JM Hernandez (Racing Metro), G Camacho (Exeter), G Tiesi (San Isidro), F Contepomi (Stade Francais), J Imhoff (Racing Metro), N Sanchez (Bordeaux-Begles), M Landajo (San Isidro), M Ayerza (Leicester), E Guinazu (Southern Kings), J Figallo (Montpellier); M Carizza (Racing Metro), JF Cabello (Tucuman); L Senatore (Gimnasia Rosario), JM Leguizamon (Lyon), JM Fernandez Lobbe (Toulon, captain)

Replacements: A Creevy (Montpellier), B Posiglioni (La Plata), J Gomez (Los Matreros), T Vallejos (Scarlets), T Leonardi (San Isidro), N Vergallo (Southern Kings), H Agulla (Bath), J Tuculet (Grenoble).

Bring back the Count.

Casartelli wrote:Hey Flyhalf, how's it going,

The stats on Hook are shocking - I was surprised too. The longest run he had starting at 10 was 6 games through the end of the 2007 season and the pre RWC games.

To date, Priestland has been given 15 starts at 10 (okay, one was a run on as a sub, but it was still at 10, so he can't use that as an excuse).

Ospreys form was irrelevant. Holley would have turned Dan Carter into Ceri Sweeney.

Anyway, this isn't about you and me any more. Hook has proven himself in France (as 'whocares' said a while back - if he was French he would be their starting 10).

And Priestland is clearly going to have to shoot someone on the pitch with a gun (like in The Last Boy Scout with Bruce Willis) to lose that 10 shirt.

Mr F me old bean

The stats prove in 2007 he had MORE GAMES than Jones/Robinson/Sweeney combined

Holley or not (in 2007/8!!!) under Hook they lost the first 3 out of 4, yet under Biggar they won the championship SAME COACH FOR BOTH

Hook hasnt proved himself in France where are you getting that from!!!
Perpignan this season have

Played 10 LOST 6............... Won 4 (of which 2 of those wins were in the dying minutes)

Ok he has proved himself I suppose

And I agree Biggar should start

Will all due respect, FHF, that statistic tells us nothing more than how many matches Perpignan have won and lost. You could use that kind of stat to say that no Dragons and Blues players should be anywhere near the Welsh team.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Will all due respect, FHF, that statistic tells us nothing more than how many matches Perpignan have won and lost. You could use that kind of stat to say that no Dragons and Blues players should be anywhere near the Welsh team.

Totally agree stats can deceive

But if you watch T14 and the media response then you would realise that Hook is nowhere close to been a "french 10" he has done ok but not setting the league on fire as Casterelli suggests. But the reality is Hook is having a run of games with Perpignan as so many fans wanted and apart from one MOM game he has been average at best

flyhalffactory wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Will all due respect, FHF, that statistic tells us nothing more than how many matches Perpignan have won and lost. You could use that kind of stat to say that no Dragons and Blues players should be anywhere near the Welsh team.

Totally agree stats can deceive

But if you watch T14 and the media response then you would realise that Hook is nowhere close to been a "french 10" he has done ok but not setting the league on fire as Casterelli suggests. But the reality is Hook is having a run of games with Perpignan as so many fans wanted and apart from one MOM game he has been average at best

I've watched quite a bit of Top 14 this season and I would disagree. Hook looks in very good form at the moment. Controlling games much better than before.

I know that Gatland and Howley have been to see him play a few times. His selection in the squad is warranted, and his usefulness as a back up, ahead of Dan Biggar, justified in my opinion.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Will all due respect, FHF, that statistic tells us nothing more than how many matches Perpignan have won and lost. You could use that kind of stat to say that no Dragons and Blues players should be anywhere near the Welsh team.

Totally agree stats can deceive

But if you watch T14 and the media response then you would realise that Hook is nowhere close to been a "french 10" he has done ok but not setting the league on fire as Casterelli suggests. But the reality is Hook is having a run of games with Perpignan as so many fans wanted and apart from one MOM game he has been average at best

Never suggested he was setting the league on fire, I pointed out that the French media, coaches (Perpignan and opposition teams) and the token Frenchman on 606v2 have praised him for his consistency and quality. And he's doing this in an incredibly tough league in an average team. Don't see where you're going with the win/loss stats to back up your point. Perpignan lost a couple of games when they had Dan Carter at 10 - he must have been rubbish without his All Black mates around him?

On the plus side - you've brought me and MaestegMafia together for a virtual man hug.

maestegmafia wrote:

IronMike wrote:A few questions come from this:

Is Knoyle on form?
Did they think Turnbull was a better option at blindside than playing either Tipuric or Warburton there?
Should Warburton be starting?
No Biggar?

Bench looks a bit weak, no second row replacement, bringing on Mike Phillips and James Hook late in the game could cause problems for our structure.

I think Knoyle's inclusion is going to upset some posters on here who can't see why he is even playing at regional level they despise him so much. In my opinion I think he and Phillips have been the two best Welsh scrum halves of the last two months in the matches I have seen.

.

If you are gonna make a comment, try and back it up with an answer.
In which games have you watched Phillips and Knoyle, to convice you they are the best two 9s for Wales ?????????

JAMIE ROBERTS admits the damage playing in France could do to his Wales career will play a part in the “huge decision” he faces over his future.

The Lions centre is in the final year of his contract with the Blues and is being heavily targeted by French clubs, with Racing Metro leading the chase.

But the perils of playing across the Channel have been reinforced by the omission of Bayonne scrum-half Mike Phillips from the Welsh team to face Argentina on Saturday.

Caretaker coach Rob Howley has confirmed that the limited time Phillips has spent in camp because of his club commitments had a big bearing on him losing his place to Tavis Knoyle.



Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/11/07/jamie-roberts-admits-fate-of-french-based-mike-phillips-could-affect-decision-on-future-91466-32179234/#ixzz2BYi73jsp

Casartelli wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Will all due respect, FHF, that statistic tells us nothing more than how many matches Perpignan have won and lost. You could use that kind of stat to say that no Dragons and Blues players should be anywhere near the Welsh team.

Totally agree stats can deceive

But if you watch T14 and the media response then you would realise that Hook is nowhere close to been a "french 10" he has done ok but not setting the league on fire as Casterelli suggests. But the reality is Hook is having a run of games with Perpignan as so many fans wanted and apart from one MOM game he has been average at best

Never suggested he was setting the league on fire, I pointed out that the French media, coaches (Perpignan and opposition teams) and the token Frenchman on 606v2 have praised him for his consistency and quality. And he's doing this in an incredibly tough league in an average team. Don't see where you're going with the win/loss stats to back up your point. Perpignan lost a couple of games when they had Dan Carter at 10 - he must have been rubbish without his All Black mates around him?

On the plus side - you've brought me and MaestegMafia together for a virtual man hug.

Mr F
I love bringing two hunky men together childish titter

I think you said that that the French media and public would have him as their 10 if was a les blue, and sorry they are far from been an average squad, the Perpignan side is peppered with expensive purchases the likes of Charteris Stroko, Hook and Mafi to name but a few

Maes you cheeky chappy
Like you I have watched the T14 this term (albeit probably not as much!) and sorry cannae see where you are coming from with Hook and "consistency" in fact its most deffo the opposite wavering from the sublime to the ridiculous, leading many USAP supporters have clamoured for the young Bosch to be given more game time (only one start this term but I think he scored 2 tries)

Anyway its quite academical as like you two I would have thought that Biggar should have started x

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Will all due respect, FHF, that statistic tells us nothing more than how many matches Perpignan have won and lost. You could use that kind of stat to say that no Dragons and Blues players should be anywhere near the Welsh team.

Totally agree stats can deceive

But if you watch T14 and the media response then you would realise that Hook is nowhere close to been a "french 10" he has done ok but not setting the league on fire as Casterelli suggests. But the reality is Hook is having a run of games with Perpignan as so many fans wanted and apart from one MOM game he has been average at best

Never suggested he was setting the league on fire, I pointed out that the French media, coaches (Perpignan and opposition teams) and the token Frenchman on 606v2 have praised him for his consistency and quality. And he's doing this in an incredibly tough league in an average team. Don't see where you're going with the win/loss stats to back up your point. Perpignan lost a couple of games when they had Dan Carter at 10 - he must have been rubbish without his All Black mates around him?

On the plus side - you've brought me and MaestegMafia together for a virtual man hug.

Mr F
I love bringing two hunky men together childish titter

I think you said that that the French media and public would have him as their 10 if was a les blue, and sorry they are far from been an average squad, the Perpignan side is peppered with expensive purchases the likes of Charteris Stroko, Hook and Mafi to name but a few

Maes you cheeky chappy
Like you I have watched the T14 this term (albeit probably not as much!) and sorry cannae see where you are coming from with Hook and "consistency" in fact its most deffo the opposite wavering from the sublime to the ridiculous, leading many USAP supporters have clamoured for the young Bosch to be given more game time (only one start this term but I think he scored 2 tries)

Anyway its quite academical as like you two I would have thought that Biggar should have started x

I don't think I would have Biggar at 10. He cant get the backline moving and our strength and advantage is our back three...

If Priestland is having a mare then the option of the bench is not filling me with confidence

Beds mate,

Trust me hooky is doing well this year. He won't let us down.

Maes,

We have heard it all before over Hook, trust me if I am wrong then I will be happiest man about its just not filling me with confidence.

Casartelli wrote:For SS,

Priestland has started 15 games at OH. Wales won 9, lost 6.

Hook has started 19 games at OH. Wales won 12, lost 7.

5 mins of my life I will never get back!

Doing the legwork again hey cas.

maes you are wrong about biggars first instinct is to kick, it USED to be I would agree, but not anymore.

also, how do you know he wont get the welsh back line going? as cass pointed out biggars only lost once against nz, other times hes been on the winning side.

why are the media and fans and tv pundits saying he is the in form 10 if he cant make the grade?

hooksters have never liked biggar since he replaced hook when hook was at his worst. lets move on, pick whats best for wales, this is not a personality contest.

we wont get true positional cover on the bench if they keep picking a guy who is not good enough in the positons he is supposed to be covering.

I dont rate Bigger at all! but in all fairness to him he is the in-form 10 in Wales atm. Seems to have learned to keep his mouth shut and just play should have had the nod over RP. Voted Wales0-5 gonna be very close all the way but Wales gonne sneek it in the last 5 mins you heard it here first

I thought her deserved a bench slot at least

James hook does not have the temparament to be an international class outside half.

As demonstrated in 2010, his running and distribution skills are best utilised in the outside center position.

A center partnership of jamie roberts and james hook covers all basis except perhaps speed which is why I suspect that howley and gatland prefer scott williams and jon davies.

Nevertheless it seems crazy that the two most gifted players of their generation, hook and henson seem surplus to requirements by Wales.

ah henson, now there we are talking, class , dream of a player.

Looks like there's a load of Priestland haters in this thread. How quickly some forget who was at 10 when we got to the world cup semi final, who was at 10 for our grandslam this year and who plays 10 for Wales top region so far this year.

Bigger is improving but doesn't get the best out of what's outside him. He's a better goalkicker but Halfpenny will be doing that anyway.
Hook has always been a great talent but lacks consistency. I guess Priestland does too but it's his shirt to lose.

The team's been picked, let's get behind them.

yes, we did get to the world cup semi final and our 10's were not on form, priestland missed sitters, hook....well!!

dont class the rest of the world cup team with those two please.

take off the wales 10 blinkers everyone, we have to move on, and dan, at the moment , should be the man. you dont like him as a person....so what? pick for wales not yourself.

Its not a case of hating a player, Rhys is a very good player, has been in the past will be again. Its more a case of coaches not picking the in form players.

Lets be honest if any of us was in Priestlands' place and you knew you weren't playing well but the coach still picked you would you be man enough to turn around and say don't pick pick player X because he is better.

I know I wouldn't be

I'm really looking forward to the match now. I'm wary of Argentina, but I'm always wary of Argentina. Apart from how the scrums will go, my main concern is Knoyle at scrum half. I hope we won't see him just shipping on bad ball if we're going backwards. Priestland doesn't need that even when he's on song.

I'm hoping to see a lot more from us in attack, but I expect to see more of the same. It may well end up being successful, but it's very predictable. Our wings are both excellent players and I'd love us to use Roberts as a decoy and actually get the ball wide from first phase. Bullocks to 'earning the right'.

I think apart from goal kicking that Priestland has played better than Biggar all season.

Biggar struggles together the ospreys backline moving, he doesn't have the same feel of when or when not to pass that Priestland has, he doesn't know when a miss pass or through the hands is right. He rarely gets the ball going the right way when there are overlaps to be exploited.

In the same way that most tries for scarlets start with Priestland at the ospreys they generally start with players other than Biggar.

With two good wingers and a flyer at fullback, Wales have to be able to get the backs involved.

Having openly criticised the selection of Howley from the off I just hope that if ANY player isn't performing he has the minerals to drag them off, even if its early in the game.

Yes, instead of waiting until the magical 60-minute mark. Also, I hope he doesn't take off a player who's having a stormer just because the plan was to take him off after an hour.

I guess one of the benefits of Gatland's Gameplan (pick & drive & kick & chase) is that the roles of 9 & 10 are less critical.

9 is there to box kick and support the back row.

10 pops up passes to inside centre and winger 'on the crash'.

'Controlling the game' is done via recycling at rucks and we haven't tried to 'get the backline moving' since 2008.

So, after initially throwing my tickets in the Taff when Knoyle and Priestland were selected, Casartelli has reflected and is slightly more optimistic now.

Come on Wales, etc.

Generally we make subsitutions too late. Management doesn't want to believe that the starting line-up wasn't the best and, especially if the match is tight, perseveres with the starters until the final 10 mins. By then it's too late to change the dynamics of the game, and the new guys get just a few touches before the final whistle.

And if that plan isn't working, Casartelli, we just bash away at it in the hope that it will eventually.

We really could be much more of an attacking threat if we varied our game more. I've said it time and time again, but if the opposition know what's coming, they're better prepared to deal with it. We should keep them guessing.

Biggar has been the 10 for the Ospreys whilst winning two league titles.
Saying he 'can't get the backline moving' is such a throwaway - and meaningless- expression. Which of the Ospreys backline - Shane, Dirkson, Fussell, Beck, Tommy Bowe , Lee Byrne etc were short of tries during those seasons?
His personal development this season has been exactly the opposite of Priestland's, whereby his instincts to make a break have improved, whereas his tactic kicking/goal kicking remain very good. Priestland has not been executing his skills with any sort of consistency. But I hope for bi things come Saturday. There will be no Ryan jones to help him out.

Argentine fans expectations on the game

The match of Wales vs. Pumas, is a game that has raised many expectations in Argentina.
Why?
Because it's the first game that Argentina plays after participating for the very first time in TRC. The particular interest is to check how much Los Pumas has grown after playing the tournament. The ultimate goal of TRC is that the Argentine rugby grow, and this game is the first test to see if this has happened, or not yet.
Argentina's supporters are hoping a victory after being punished in TRC with so many defeats.
There is a belief that TRC has a higher level of play than 6N and therefore it is believed that with the tight defeats suffered by Argentina (and a draw) is enough to get a win against any 6N team.
Anyway, it is important to remember, that this isn’t a dream, Argentina has won and lost on many occasions against all 6N teams.

The votes on poll of the official website of the UAR are:
Wales win: 15%
Argentina win: 82%
Draw: 3%

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And if that plan isn't working, Casartelli, we just bash away at it in the hope that it will eventually.

We really could be much more of an attacking threat if we varied our game more. I've said it time and time again, but if the opposition know what's coming, they're better prepared to deal with it. We should keep them guessing.

Good arguement for the inclusion of Hook and Brynmor Jnr, both can be very good, but can have very inconsistant days too where you have no idea what howler they are going to make next.

Higher_Ground wrote:I hope for bi things come Saturday.

I'd keep that to yourself if I were you.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And if that plan isn't working, Casartelli, we just bash away at it in the hope that it will eventually.

We really could be much more of an attacking threat if we varied our game more. I've said it time and time again, but if the opposition know what's coming, they're better prepared to deal with it. We should keep them guessing.

I agree 110% (maybe even 111).

Just isn't in the Gatland gameplan. Genuine world class backline but chases kicks and goes on the crashball 49% of the time. 50% of the time they stand there watching AW-J, Adam, Lydiate, Rees etc pick & drive it down the pitch an inch at a time.

Still, can't argue with the results, even if many of the wins have been much narrower than they could have been.

Maybe Howley will 'go rogue' and we'll play some champagne rugger?

Stan won't do anything unless Ollie says it's okay.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Stan won't do anything unless Ollie says it's okay.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Higher_Ground wrote:I hope for bi things come Saturday.

I'd keep that to yourself if I were you.

Suppose I shouldn't knock it till I've tried it though.

maes, your comments on biggars game do not reflect the way he plays. higherg sees a different player to you, so do i , and as cass has said...back line moving? is that in the welsh plan.? lets see if priest gets them moving shall we.

may as well have chosen a goal kicking 10 IF that is his main strength, then we could have a genuine fullback on the bench who doesnt have to be a kicker.

gavstar wrote:maes, your comments on biggars game do not reflect the way he plays. higherg sees a different player to you, so do i , and as cass has said...back line moving? is that in the welsh plan.? lets see if priest gets them moving shall we.

may as well have chosen a goal kicking 10 IF that is his main strength, then we could have a genuine fullback on the bench who doesnt have to be a kicker.

We have Liam Williams on the bench. He plays fifteen for the Scarlets. Hook is cover for Center and Flyhalf.

RE Biggar, my opinion is based on having watched him for the last five season at the Ospreys. He is a better flyhalf this season than last. He has had a good start to the year. He deserves to be in the squad his kicking from hand and at goal has been great, but Rhys Priestland is the better at moving the ball through the hands.

I wish Biggar could learn from Priestland how to do so better, then we would have a hell of a weapon at ten.

YH I hope to god that Hook isn't there as XV cover if so wahts point of Williams being there

bedfordwelsh wrote:YH I hope to god that Hook isn't there as XV cover if so wahts point of Williams being there

Wing cover

SS,

Fair one I reckon(or would hope) Williams is there for wing and XV Hook for centre and 10

Bedford - I would hope and probably assume that too, but say 1/2 takes a knock early doors, I would not be suprised to see Hook come on, and then about 60mins Priest be replaced by Sanjay and Hook go to flyhalf.

Well lets all hope n pray that not happen

Surely if we lost a wing and a fullback we are adequately catered for, probably more so than the opposition?

The poll now running at 30 votes to 24 in favour of a Welsh win. That a lot closer an opinion than I anticipated, though maybe not reflective of the amount of negative opinion towards the current welsh team, squad and coaches.

For me my negativity is directed at the coaches and their selection policy

Maes, haven't you considered that the vote split might actually indicate 'positive opinion' towards the Pumas, rather than 'negative opinion' towards Wales?

It is possible to tip Wales's opponents without having anything against Wales.

To be honest I have been defending the selection of a lot of players, however I am not overly confident that we are going to win the match, and I think there is going to be a score in it, and probably a nail biting "please no repeats of the summer" ending. So I would expect the votes to be pretty close.

Lads how about giving it a break and seeing what happens here - A 1 point win against this Argentinian team given our injuries and selection would be a very good outcome and I think we can achieve that