Wales vs Argentina KO 14:30 Sat 10th Nov - TEAM ANNOUNCED

First topic message reminder :

WALES V ARGENTINA

Venue: Millennium Stadium Cardiff Date: Saturday, 10 November Kick-off: 14:30 GMT

Coverage: Live on BBC One Wales & online; live on S4C; live commentary on BBC Radio Wales & online; live commentary on Radio Cymru

Wales Team

L Halfpenny (Blues), A Cuthbert (Blues), S Williams (Scarlets), J Roberts (Blues), G North (Scarlets); R Priestland (Scarlets), T Knoyle (Scarlets); G Jenkins (RC Toulon), M Rees (Scarlets), A Jarvis (Ospreys), A W Jones (Ospreys), I Evans (Ospreys), J Turnbull (Scarlets), S Warburton (Blues & Captain), T Faletau (Dragons)

Replacements: R Hibbard (Ospreys), R Bevington (Ospreys), P James (Bath RFC), R McCusker (Scarlets), J Tipuric (Ospreys), M Phillips (RC Bayonne), J Hook (USA Perpignan), L Williams (Scarlets)


Argentina Team

JM Hernandez (Racing Metro), G Camacho (Exeter), G Tiesi (San Isidro), F Contepomi (Stade Francais), J Imhoff (Racing Metro), N Sanchez (Bordeaux-Begles), M Landajo (San Isidro), M Ayerza (Leicester), E Guinazu (Southern Kings), J Figallo (Montpellier); M Carizza (Racing Metro), JF Cabello (Tucuman); L Senatore (Gimnasia Rosario), JM Leguizamon (Lyon), JM Fernandez Lobbe (Toulon, captain)

Replacements: A Creevy (Montpellier), B Posiglioni (La Plata), J Gomez (Los Matreros), T Vallejos (Scarlets), T Leonardi (San Isidro), N Vergallo (Southern Kings), H Agulla (Bath), J Tuculet (Grenoble).

I'm still laughing ,
scrum half- point, point, wave finger, point, crouch ,point, point again, crouch, pass!

Static pod of forwards- catch ,collapse, flop.

scrum half- point, point, wave finger, point, crouch ,point, point again, crouch, pass!

Static pod of forwards- catch ,collapse, flop.

Make zero yards.

scrum half- point, point, wave finger, point, crouch ,point, point again, crouch, pass!

Static pod of forwards- catch ,collapse, flop.

scrum half- point, point, wave finger, point, crouch ,point, point again, crouch, pass!

Static pod of forwards- catch ,collapse, flop.

Make zero yards.

Fly half kick away ball.

or give North and Cuthbert half a mater room on the touch line to do something.

It was awful , looked like a bunch of amateurs

I think you limit yourself when you have two big wingers, Shane and North worked well IMO.

Yes, the ref played better than 15 welsh men

I m of to the gym, so pisswd right now, reckon i would smash some personal bests

LordDowlais wrote:I see the bell ends are out in force here again, 60% of the votes going for an Argentina win, I tell you one thing, if Wales have any ambitions about sitting at the top table of international rugby then loosing to Argentina is a big NO-NO. Wales will not lose to the Argies this weekend, and let us not forget, we were only a few dodgy referee decisions away from winning down under.

Are you having your humble pie now or later Sir?

Duty281 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I see the bell ends are out in force here again, 60% of the votes going for an Argentina win, I tell you one thing, if Wales have any ambitions about sitting at the top table of international rugby then loosing to Argentina is a big NO-NO. Wales will not lose to the Argies this weekend, and let us not forget, we were only a few dodgy referee decisions away from winning down under.

Are you having your humble pie now or later Sir?

Jiffy Quote

"Wales didn't show anything in attack, but their defending was good in the first half. However, second half Argentina cut them apart. With the injuries they got to key players, it's going to be a very tough month for Wales."

Sound like his getting his excuses in early to me.


The Samoa game looks like being huge now, I'm tempted to go?

Just caught the last 10 minutes. Argentina looked good value. The support play was great and in general (too many poor DG attempts aside) the options they took were the right ones.

Wales looked horribly disorganised. No leadership and nobody standing up to be counted and change things. (It did look like Phillips was trying but it looked like he was alone) I dont actually get the 'just get the ball to the wingers' argument either. The point is that with a head of steam and a little space both welsh wingers are wonderful, but if they dont have the space they cant do anything. Right near the end North got the ball and got hammered straight away. It was a little high which meant a penalty and the chance that McCusker faffed up but the point is without momentum he is human.

Ho, ho, ho. Christmas has come early. The cocky welsh have just had a schooling. Clean sweep there was according to Warburton.

HERSH wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I see the bell ends are out in force here again, 60% of the votes going for an Argentina win, I tell you one thing, if Wales have any ambitions about sitting at the top table of international rugby then loosing to Argentina is a big NO-NO. Wales will not lose to the Argies this weekend, and let us not forget, we were only a few dodgy referee decisions away from winning down under.

Are you having your humble pie now or later Sir?

Jiffy Quote

"Wales didn't show anything in attack, but their defending was good in the first half. However, second half Argentina cut them apart. With the injuries they got to key players, it's going to be a very tough month for Wales."

Sound like his getting his excuses in early to me.


The Samoa game looks like being huge now, I'm tempted to go?

Doesnt sound like excuses, besides apart from AWJ I dont think there are any serious injuries?

Not looking forward to what state the team will be in after Samoa though...followed by a likely demolition by NZ

It could always be a cunning plan to lull NZ in to a false sense of security and make them overconfident.

englandglory4ever wrote:Ho, ho, ho. Christmas has come early. The cocky welsh have just had a schooling. Clean sweep there was according to Warburton.

Must admit when I saw the 'clean sweep' quote the first thing that came to mind is that its never too early to start planning for a career after rugby...

So what you're saying is, in the words of Corp Jones

"Don't Panic don't Panic"

hard luck welshy dudes.. you will come back

Did Wales lose because Argentina was a better side. or Did Wales lose because they played the Welsh way?

majesticimperialman wrote:Did Wales lose because Argentina was a better side. or Did Wales lose because they played the Welsh way?

Wales lost because they arrogantly overlooked Argentina. They were looking past Argentina and Samoa and anticipating the games against Australia and New Zealand. They won't make that mistake again.

Go easy on them they'll bounce back.

Where have they all gone?

Just goes to show - even a bell-end gets it right now and again - 9/2 damn shame it was only a fiver...

Chip anyone?

I also have a large slice of pie

Some really terrible performances today. Aaron Jarvis the only positive

Some REAL questions about the coaches decision.

Why on earth was Tipuric only introduced on 70 minutes because Warbs had blood? (he they immediately won a turnover penalty which Warburton didn't do for the whole game)

Turnball and McCusker are not international class, Shingler is and can actually cover the second row - him not making the bench was ludicrous.

Warburton is not good enough to get into the first choice 22 when Lydiate is available

Gethin Jenkins hasn't played much recently, and it showed.

NEW 1st TEAM

1. Paul James
2. Matthew Rees
3. Aaron Jarvis
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris
6. Ryan Jones (c)
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. James Hook (not been a fan in the past, but this must happen)
11. George North
12. Scott Williams (Ashley Beck if fit)
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Gethin
17. Lee
18. Hibbard
19. Evans
20. Warburton
21. Knoyle
22. Biggar
23. Williams

Warburton has dropped of the Lions captaincy radar IMO.

Thought halfpenny did well - can't knock the back line - just no continuity from the forwards.

I said all along even before the summer tour that I had concerns over Howley stepping in.

His selections have been shocking at worst and baffling at best,

Jenkins isn't 1st choice with Toulon
Hibbard (though not his biggest fan) is in better form than Rees
Shingler is the next best option after Lydiate and Jones
Tipuric has been form 7 since end of last season
Priestland over Bigger, even Max Boyces blind Irish referee could see thats just wrong.

Its ok him coming out and slating the players but have the balls to come out and admit you got it wrong yourself Rob.

With Howley in charge for the 6 Nations you might as well give us the Wooden Spoon now.

1. Paul James
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Aaron Jarvis
4. Ian Evans
5. Luke Charteris
6. Ryan Jones (c)
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau

9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar

11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Gethin Jenkins
17.Samson Lee
18. Matthew Rees
19. Aaron Shingler (AWJ likely to be out)
20. Sam Warburton
21. Tavis Knoyle
22. James Hook
23. Ashley Beck

HERSH wrote:Warburton has dropped of the Lions captaincy radar IMO.

Hersh,

He currently shouldn't be on the Welsh captaincy radar let alone Lions.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I said all along even before the summer tour that I had concerns over Howley stepping in.

His selections have been shocking at worst and baffling at best,

Jenkins isn't 1st choice with Toulon
Hibbard (though not his biggest fan) is in better form than Rees
Shingler is the next best option after Lydiate and Jones
Tipuric has been form 7 since end of last season
Priestland over Bigger, even Max Boyces blind Irish referee could see thats just wrong.

Its ok him coming out and slating the players but have the balls to come out and admit you got it wrong yourself Rob.

With Howley in charge for the 6 Nations you might as well give us the Wooden Spoon now.

1. Paul James
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Aaron Jarvis
4. Ian Evans
5. Luke Charteris
6. Ryan Jones (c)
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau

9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar

11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Gethin Jenkins
17.Samson Lee
18. Matthew Rees
19. Aaron Shingler (AWJ likely to be out)
20. Sam Warburton
21. Tavis Knoyle
22. James Hook
23. Ashley Beck

Is it a Welsh thing not having a lock on the bench?

Trev,

Not normally we have 4 named in the squad, Charteris, Evans, AWJ and Davies.

Charteris wasn't available today through club committments whilst Davies is injured.

AWJ looks likely to be out and if Davies is still injured then we have Shingler and Ryan Jones who can cover hence my selction

Treat it like a kick up the arse- I felt the regions were getting complacent and they can use this as further motivation in the really big games

I think to say Wales overlooked Argentina is disingenuous.

In the last decade the record was basically 50/50 between them, surely Howley saw what Argentina was capable of in the Rugby Championship, and if he paid close attention would have seen their backline skills evolve as the tournament went on.

Wales had the lead, but they never managed to control the game, their attack was predictable and showed nothing new, Shane Williams would have been more effective yeasterday as he was the one player in the Welsh team who looked for the gap rather than trying to run over people.

I am sorry to say but both Cuthbert and North were more interested in running over Camacho and gis mates than trying to create an overlap or hitting a gap.

Wales must look at being more creative on attack.

Halfpenny should be on the wing. That is where he is most effective and scores tries.

Byrne needs to be our 15.

North should play 13 as he ends up there quite often anyway.

argentina have had great conditioning coming of the 4nations- wales were clearly rusty- its just the way it is..

Biltong wrote:I think to say Wales overlooked Argentina is disingenuous.

In the last decade the record was basically 50/50 between them, surely Howley saw what Argentina was capable of in the Rugby Championship, and if he paid close attention would have seen their backline skills evolve as the tournament went on.

Wales had the lead, but they never managed to control the game, their attack was predictable and showed nothing new, Shane Williams would have been more effective yeasterday as he was the one player in the Welsh team who looked for the gap rather than trying to run over people.

I am sorry to say but both Cuthbert and North were more interested in running over Camacho and gis mates than trying to create an overlap or hitting a gap.

Wales must look at being more creative on attack.

Probably expected a lot less from their backs, who were more slick, creative and looked to go through the gaps everytime a bigger guy created one for them. How can you say that about Cuthbert and North? When Hook came on, every time he got the ball he ran diagonal. He was trying to look fancy with ball in hand (coz he's a showboater) instead of passing it straight away. This allowed the Arg cover defence to quickly close down any space we had out wide. Can't blame the wingers for that. Them two were the only form picks! I hope they don't start with Hook next week, awful player.

On reflection, this game reminded me a lot of when we were destroyed by France in 2011's 6nations.

Forwards were massively beaten up front and with no go forward ball we had no penetration.

Morgannwg wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think to say Wales overlooked Argentina is disingenuous.

In the last decade the record was basically 50/50 between them, surely Howley saw what Argentina was capable of in the Rugby Championship, and if he paid close attention would have seen their backline skills evolve as the tournament went on.

Wales had the lead, but they never managed to control the game, their attack was predictable and showed nothing new, Shane Williams would have been more effective yeasterday as he was the one player in the Welsh team who looked for the gap rather than trying to run over people.

I am sorry to say but both Cuthbert and North were more interested in running over Camacho and gis mates than trying to create an overlap or hitting a gap.

Wales must look at being more creative on attack.

Probably expected a lot less from their backs, who were more slick, creative and looked to go through the gaps everytime a bigger guy created one for them. How can you say that about Cuthbert and North? When Hook came on, every time he got the ball he ran diagonal. He was trying to look fancy with ball in hand (coz he's a showboater) instead of passing it straight away. This allowed the Arg cover defence to quickly close down any space we had out wide. Can't blame the wingers for that. Them two were the only form picks! I hope they don't start with Hook next week, awful player.

Gotta disagree with you there , MG. If anything, Hook shifted the ball out to the wings too quickly, on one occasion through a big miss-pass. Unfortunately the Argies had sussed out the way to handle the big men , which is to snaffle them before they get their momentum going. So Cuthbert got tamely bundled into touch several times, and North got caught in heavy traffic. The two wingers are immense players, but they didn't show anything yesterday. Apart from the goalkicking, I didn't think 1/2p had a good game either. He got skinned for the first try, and his Garryowens were no better than Priestland's.

Having said that, major problem was clearly the pack, more specifically the back row, which were given a lesson by Lobbe and co.

Ye no blame can be put on the wingers, they received ball too early, too far back and with numbers all around them, they went for contact because they were numbered up and they needed to get over the gameline (which was actually 10m or so ahead of them.

Hook is a very talented player but everything about him yesterday was the worst of what he is, and that is a 10 covering positions he cannot play. He threw numerous miss passes way too early, then when he needed to throw them decided to drift across feild.

I just want to mention a point regarding 1/2p, there was a guy in the pub who mustve hated him and constantly criticised him, yet he was predicting everything 1/2p would do and how badly he'd do it...

When 1/2p kicked it went too long and had no chasers, partly due to him being too shallow or too deep at times, both wingers couldnt reset in time to support or chase him.

When 1/2p had room to run he slipped (again and again) as he does on so many occasions. Someone mentioned footwear but no way will his footwork make him slip so ofter on so many differing pitches. His footwork technique is clearly biased toward flat footed hard ground running, the blues training pitch is a 3G and they train in trainers so often. (but this is a common them surrounding lots of back 3 players and a bugbear I have)

My point is this guy would call 1/2p's mistakes before he'd touched the ball, and sadly was bang on time after time!!

Guys I am not putting blame on the wingers, I am
Ointing out that their are being incorrectly utilised.

World class wingers make their mark in a one on one situation, how many times did North Nad Cuthbert get that opportunity?

Is this the same thing what happened with Roberts? Had an excellent period smashing through the centers. Teams started compensating for this by putting one of their best tacklers on him (or just gang tackling him). This seemed to stall Wales and they took a season or two to get back where they were. This year they got the grand slam and the two big wings were a big part of this. When the wings were taken out of the game, Wales seemed to stall.

Are the Welsh management just doing the same thing over and over and only after a year of it not working trying something new?

The Welsh management haven't got a cluewhat they are doing thats the problem.

Argie fan wrote:
I told you so.
Great victory Argentina.
The last of TRC won over the 6N winner, this is good to think about the level differences between TRC and 6N.

Enjoy it. argentina deserve to win some games. they deserve a decent place in the rankings. Well done

Well now we can finally agree that Argie fan and AWOP are one and the same.

I knew you'd Jynx them Morgan

Can't say that I did that. However HERSH, did anyone ever tell you how spot on your prediction was? And to think the masses labelled you a bell end. Never again will you be doubted. What do you think of Bath's best player Paul James; do you think he should be starting for us at LH?

Morgannwg wrote:Well now we can finally agree that Argie fan and AWOP are one and the same.

Sometimes we agree, but believe me, I'm not AWOP.