Wales vs Argentina KO 14:30 Sat 10th Nov - TEAM ANNOUNCED

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WALES V ARGENTINA

Venue: Millennium Stadium Cardiff Date: Saturday, 10 November Kick-off: 14:30 GMT

Coverage: Live on BBC One Wales & online; live on S4C; live commentary on BBC Radio Wales & online; live commentary on Radio Cymru

Wales Team

L Halfpenny (Blues), A Cuthbert (Blues), S Williams (Scarlets), J Roberts (Blues), G North (Scarlets); R Priestland (Scarlets), T Knoyle (Scarlets); G Jenkins (RC Toulon), M Rees (Scarlets), A Jarvis (Ospreys), A W Jones (Ospreys), I Evans (Ospreys), J Turnbull (Scarlets), S Warburton (Blues & Captain), T Faletau (Dragons)

Replacements: R Hibbard (Ospreys), R Bevington (Ospreys), P James (Bath RFC), R McCusker (Scarlets), J Tipuric (Ospreys), M Phillips (RC Bayonne), J Hook (USA Perpignan), L Williams (Scarlets)


Argentina Team

JM Hernandez (Racing Metro), G Camacho (Exeter), G Tiesi (San Isidro), F Contepomi (Stade Francais), J Imhoff (Racing Metro), N Sanchez (Bordeaux-Begles), M Landajo (San Isidro), M Ayerza (Leicester), E Guinazu (Southern Kings), J Figallo (Montpellier); M Carizza (Racing Metro), JF Cabello (Tucuman); L Senatore (Gimnasia Rosario), JM Leguizamon (Lyon), JM Fernandez Lobbe (Toulon, captain)

Replacements: A Creevy (Montpellier), B Posiglioni (La Plata), J Gomez (Los Matreros), T Vallejos (Scarlets), T Leonardi (San Isidro), N Vergallo (Southern Kings), H Agulla (Bath), J Tuculet (Grenoble).

Forget the margin, as we know that will always divide. The fact is that 13 votes go for a Welsh win over 11 for an Pumas victory (with 1 draw) [at time of writing].

So majority is still for a Welsh win, even with WUMs like Hersh about

HERSH wrote:

It does seem a little disrespectful to expect to win well against a team ranked only 2 places lower than you mate.

Oh, please can we put this as a sticky somewhere, as we will just have to quote it when HERSH predicts England to thrash Wales come next 6 Nations (or anyone else to thrash Wales for that matter... )..

Why is it a wum to say Arg might win this game?

Sheer arrogance IMO.

I also don't think I've ever predicted England to thrash Wales, but remember this is a topic about Wale vs Arg, not England!

From The Telegraph, opinion on the Wales backrow debate, whether or where to play Warburton.

The dependable Jones has been forced out with a shoulder niggle while Wales’s outstanding first choice at blindside flanker, Dan Lydiate, is also unavailable as he recovers from a dislocated ankle that will sideline him until the new year.

Rob McCusker, the Scarlets’ captain, is a strong option but Wales might be tempted to switch Warburton, who has made a slow beginning to the season, to blindside, which would allow Tipuric a well-deserved start on the openside, where many believe he will challenge for a Lions Test spot in Australia next summer.

Warburton has been such an outstanding captain and galvanising force for Wales over the past 18 months that Howley will be reluctant to drop him and the Cardiff flanker has arguably earned the right to ease his way into the season.
But Tipuric, who has reeled off a series of fine performances for Ospreys, is such a talent that selection at openside is going to be an issue this season.

“When you have got two quality players at openside, as we have in the squad, you can’t discount it,” Robin McBryde, the forwards coach, said when asked about the possibility of selecting both players.

“Both Justin and Sam are hugely effective in their own different ways, and they could complement each other. It is definitely one we wouldn’t throw out straightaway.

“Hopefully, our hand isn’t forced, but should we have to go down that route I am confident that we could be as effective and mould our game around that combination.”

McCusker, meanwhile, is hopeful of making his first start for Wales after winning four caps as a replacement.
“I am very nervous, it seems to be falling into place but it is out of my hands at the moment,” he said.

“All the boys are training well and we have rotated around and everyone is playing everywhere at the moment so it is difficult to tell.
"It would be fantastic to start. My involvements so far have been off the bench.”
With Lydiate, Lions prop Adam Jones who has a knee problem, and now the ultra-reliable Ryan Jones already ruled out, Wales will probably be tempted to choose the conservative options up front against an Argentina pack who always need subduing, or at least holding, if you are to prevail.

In the front row neither Gethin Jenkins, short of first-team starts at star-studded Toulon this season, nor Bath’s Paul James was free to join Wales’s Polish boot camp in Spala last week because of club duties.

The likelihood is still that James will be asked to switch to tighthead, although a straight selection ahead of Jenkins cannot be ruled out.

“Gethin will be under pressure,” McBryde said. “Paul James has been playing well. He’s been first-choice down there, playing regularly with demands that mirror something akin to Argentina – playing against big packs week in, week out in the Premiership.

“I had the conversation with Paul and he was keen to find out whether he was number one or number three on his back. I said to wait and see how it goes.”
Both Wales and Argentina will announce their teams on Tuesday, with Argentina certain to be without veteran lock Patricio Albacete, who has undergone an operation on a broken eye socket after playing for Toulouse against Racing Métro last week.
Replacing Albacete is former Harlequins lock Tomás Vallejos, now playing for the Scarlets, who could go straight into the starting line-up.
The Pumas will also be without the Biarritz duo of prop Marcelo Kodela and centre Marcelo Bosch who will join the party after their T14 game against Montpellier on Saturday. Felipe Contepomi, 35 but still playing well for Stade Français, has been added to the squad and could feature.

HERSH wrote:Argue fan???? get it right Mae.

I'm with you Argie fan, Wales usually start slow in the AI's and there 1st game will be against a battle hardened Argie team, 'Hang on I don't have to justify why I believe Wales will lose this game!'

Strange then, that you should ask the people who voted for a Fiji win against England to justify themselves on the other thread, hey Hershy. Or is it just this thread where you can cast a vote and not tell anybody why you have made your choice ?

I voted for an Argentian win as I am concerned about our set piece. Our line out is likely to be a shambles. Our Scrum is likely to be second best. We have a coach who knows only defeat.

What reason for optimism is there?

Argie News

The Pumas will also be without the Biarritz duo of prop Marcelo Kodela and centre Marcelo Bosch who will join the party after their T14 game against Montpellier on Saturday.

LordDowlais wrote:

HERSH wrote:Argue fan???? get it right Mae.

I'm with you Argie fan, Wales usually start slow in the AI's and there 1st game will be against a battle hardened Argie team, 'Hang on I don't have to justify why I believe Wales will lose this game!'

Strange then, that you should ask the people who voted for a Fiji win against England to justify themselves on the other thread, hey Hershy. Or is it just this thread where you can cast a vote and not tell anybody why you have made your choice ?

Not strictly true, I simply said give a reason as to why you think Fiji could beat England at HQ, I didn't ask for justification as that sounds too firm and demanding IMO, but if you bother to read the previous posts on this thread you will see that I did give a reason why I believe Arg could beat Wales, in fact I'm one of only a few who have.

Argentina to target Wales' scrum

06th November 2012 08:34

Argentina lock Tomas Vallejos believes their side's powerful scrummaging will prove decisive against a weakened Wales front row on Saturday.

Wales will be without tighthead prop and scrum anchorman Adam Jones, sidelined because of a knee injury, when they face the powerful Pumas at the Millennium Stadium.

The loss of the 2009 British and Irish Lion is a major blow to Wales and caretaker coach Rob Howley must now decide whether to call up Jones's uncapped deputy Aaron Jarvis or switch loosehead prop Paul James to the other side of the scrum.

All this disruption is the last thing the Dragons need against an Argentina side who were competitive during their maiden Rugby Championship campaign.

The 27-year-old Vallejos, who has a foot in both the Argentina and Wales camps having recently joined Welsh regional side the Scarlets, made no attempt to disguise the Pumas' game-plan on Monday.

"We have a massive belief in our scrum, it is one of the foundations of the team," said the former Harlequins forward, called into the squad as a replacement for the injured Patricio Albacete.

"If Jones plays or not it will not change our approach.

"We will still believe in our scrum and it will play a massive part in the game for us and we know Jones has been a massive player at the top level."

Among the Scarlets team-mates set to become opponents for Vallejos on Saturday is giant wing George North.

"George is a big player, the thing that surprised me is he is a massive guy and he is physical, but he also has skills and it makes him a very special player," Vallejos said.

"I will be telling some of our guys in the back-line we need to keep a close eye on him."

Meanwhile Vallejos has an additional motivation for wanting to win this weekend - bragging rights in the Scarlets' dressing room.

"It would be fantastic to win the game especially with me playing here, it would be funny for me to be able to do some jokes in the changing room and I am really looking forward to it."

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3885_8228307,00.html

I think a lot also depends on the Welsh mindset. One of Gatland's strengths has been keeping the Welsh team focused, as they do have a tendency to let success go to their heads. If Wales go into the game vs Argentina thinking all they have to do is turn up then they could easily mess up and get drawn into the kind of grinding arm wrestle at which Argentina excels - and lose.

I should vote but havn't. My gut feeling is that Wales will win but that it wont be by much.

Your gut must be real hurting then LIW

RubyGuby wrote:Your gut must be real hurting then LIW

Cheers bill. Will do as soon as I get home.

Tests matches statistic Wales vs Argentina

Played: 16
Wales won: 10
Argentina won: 5
Draw: 1

Date ------------- Result ---- City

14/09/1968 Argentina 09 – Gales 05 Buenos Aires
28/09/1968 Argentina 09 – Gales 09 Buenos Aires
16/10/1976 Gales 20 – Argentina 19 Cardiff
09/10/1991 Gales 16 – Argentina 07 (RWC) Cardiff
21/11/1998 Gales 43 – Argentina 30 Llanelli
05/06/1999 Argentina 26 – Gales 36 Buenos Aires
12/06/1999 Argentina 16 – Gales 23 Buenos Aires
01/10/1999 Gales 23 – Argentina 18 (RWC) Cardiff
10/11/2001 Gales 16 – Argentina 30 Cardiff
12/06/2004 Argentina 50 – Gales 44 Buenos Aires
19/06/2004 Argentina 20 – Gales 35 Buenos Aires
11/06/2006 Argentina 27 – 25 Gales Chubut
17/06/2006 Argentina 45 – 27 Gales Buenos Aires
18/10/2007 Gales 27 – Argentina 20 Cardiff
21/11/2009 Gales 33 – Los Pumas 16 Cardiff
20/08/2011 Gales 28 – Los Pumas 13 Cardiff

A curiosity:
In 2006 they played in Puerto Madryn city (Patagonia).
Why they play in that far city in the middle of Patagonia?
Because, in Puerto Madryn and around, there are the big Welsh community in Argentina.

I'd love to visit Patagonia.

Argie fan wrote:
In 2006 they played in Puerto Madryn city (Patagonia).
Why they play in that far city in the middle of Patagonia?
Because, in Puerto Madryn and around, there are the big Welsh community in Argentina.

Still the largest welsh speaking community outside of the Wales. I went there once, stunning scenery. Great people, and even better steaks....

Good to see your contribution to the thread, hope you will take some interest in the team analysis later when they are announced.

The team I would like to see is
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Phillips; James, Rees, Jarvis, Evans, AWJ, Shingler, Warburton, Faletau
Bench - Jenkins, Hibbard, Charteris, Tipuric, Knoyle, Priestland, Sc.Williams

I would expect instead to see Priestland in at 10, Jenkins at LH with James at TH and Tipuric at 6 (playing left and right with Warbs)

maestegmafia wrote:

Still the largest welsh speaking community outside of the Wales. I went there once, stunning scenery. Great people, and even better steaks....

Good to see your contribution to the thread, hope you will take some interest in the team analysis later when they are announced.

Thank you.
As the only Argentine in this forum (at least I think) try to provide data from the Argentine perspective in every game Los Pumas play.
This is well known to fans of TRC, I've made a lot of data before each Los pumas game in TRC.

Argie fan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Still the largest welsh speaking community outside of the Wales. I went there once, stunning scenery. Great people, and even better steaks....

Good to see your contribution to the thread, hope you will take some interest in the team analysis later when they are announced.

Thank you.
As the only Argentine in this forum (at least I think) try to provide data from the Argentine perspective in every game Los Pumas play.
This is well known to fans of TRC, I've made a lot of data before each Los pumas game in TRC.

I saw that...!

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Two teams...

Argie Fan - I was at the 1976 game game (20-19) and saw for the first time in front of my eyes the power and skill of the Argentinian team - They sliced our midfield to pieces that day and deserved to win that match against Wales by at least 10 points. Only a lucky penalty by Phil Bennett in injury time rescued us - last kick of the game. I ran on to the field after the final whistle and picked up the turf where Bennett had kicked the winning score from. I put it in my parka and went back home to the valleys ready to plant that sacred stuff out the back to practice my kicking. Imagine my surprise when on Sunday morning my mother gave me a row for coming home with all mud in my parka! She'd had to soak it overnight to get it clean. My sacred turf was now down the plug hole just as that game should have been for Wales.

Ha ha ha..! RG good tale mate.

I was also at the 1973 Baa Baas v New Zealand game Maesteg - 10 year old at the time and will never forget - what a day, what a score

Also at the NZ game when they jumped out of the line but trying to forget about that one

RubyGuby wrote:I was also at the 1973 Baa Baas v New Zealand game Maesteg - 10 year old at the time and will never forget - what a day, what a score

Also at the NZ game when they jumped out of the line but trying to forget about that one

I was abroad in New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong and America for much of the seventies. I saw a few games, but missed most of a good decade. We moved back to Wales and England in the 80s. Not such a great time.

Its all your fecking fault then -

I knew it!

I grew up in the fifties and sixties in Wales and we were pretty blwdi good then...!

Must admit though, I have been on holiday to the caribbean all three of the last Grandslams, missing at least three of the games.

Something about me laying on a beach drinking rum and listening to loud reggae music does something special to our chances....

Life can be such a strain...

BY THE WAY LADS

anyone not near a radio, here is a text feed for the team announcement courtessy of the Wales online site

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/11/05/wales-team-announcement-v-argentina-live-12-50pm-91466-32171930/

other option is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiowales

Maesteg - I've just booked some tickets for you and the Missus for the Carribean for a few months in 2013.

Tell me, where the feck were you when Rollain sent off Warburton - Llynfi Valley somewhere by any chance - Maybe it wasn't Allains fault after all

RubyGuby wrote:Maesteg - I've just booked some tickets for you and the Missus for the Carribean for a few months in 2013.

Tell me, where the feck were you when Rollain sent off Warburton - Llynfi Valley somewhere by any chance - Maybe it wasn't Allains fault after all

Ha ha ha...Cheers mate.. we are already booked so get your money back quick mate.

Great show on Radio Wales pre team announcement.


I was at home at the farm in Glyncorrwg , meant to be off to the MS but couldn't make it.

Glyncorrwg - too close to Glynneath for my liking

Do you know any webpage to see live match?
Not transmitted in Spanish TV.

Argie Ill ask an Argentinian mate of mine in a sec...

Argie fan wrote:Do you know any webpage to see live match?
Not transmitted in Spanish TV.

My mate says try

http://www.rojadirecta.me/

L Halfpenny; A Cuthbert, S Williams, J Roberts, G North; R Priestland, T Knoyle; G Jenkins, M Rees, A Jarvis, A W Jones, I Evans, J Turnbull, S Warburton (Captain), T Faletau

Replacements: R Hibbard, R Bevington, P James, R McCusker, J Tipuric, M Phillips, J Hook, L Williams

Davies was unavailable for selection this week after failing to fully recover from the groin injury he sustained whilst on Scarlets duty against Clermont in the Heineken Cup - the Wales medical team say he is working "incredibly hard" on his rehabilitation by Paul Rowland of Walesonline

Jonathan Davies is injured, as is Ashley Beck

Priestland, Knoyle & Turnbull are the choices that stand out as ......well weird.

Apparently performances during training in Poland have caused the selection decisions that may surprise fans.

Yeah but Knoyle is a Glynneath boy

A few questions come from this:

Is Knoyle on form?
Did they think Turnbull was a better option at blindside than playing either Tipuric or Warburton there?
Should Warburton be starting?
No Biggar?

Bench looks a bit weak, no second row replacement, bringing on Mike Phillips and James Hook late in the game could cause problems for our structure.

Feck! I just saw Turnbull - I assumed it was McCusker - What is Turnbull doing there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IronMike wrote:A few questions come from this:

Is Knoyle on form?
Did they think Turnbull was a better option at blindside than playing either Tipuric or Warburton there?
Should Warburton be starting?
No Biggar?

Bench looks a bit weak, no second row replacement, bringing on Mike Phillips and James Hook late in the game could cause problems for our structure.

I think Knoyle's inclusion is going to upset some posters on here who can't see why he is even playing at regional level they despise him so much. In my opinion I think he and Phillips have been the two best Welsh scrum halves of the last two months in the matches I have seen.

Turnbull is a surprise call up, biggest surprise to me, I would have thought he was less likely to get the 6 shirt than McCusker and Shingler. Surprised again that McCusker is ahead of Shingler, who i thought had been great so far this year.

I can see why the picked Warburton, in form he is one of the best in the game, so he's worth the risk.

Biggar has been good this season, but to be fair to Priestland he has played well, but has kicked badly.

I can see the Argies causing some real problems to that Welsh side who are shorn of some of there best players. If Wales loose this game they will take a hammering from a world ranking point of view which will almost certainly end there hopes of grabbing that 4th place ranking by 3rd December. Argies by 5 points.

Biggar?

From BBC


Wales interim coach Robert Howley has dropped Mike Phillips and brought in Scarlet Tavis Knoyle at scrum-half to face Argentina in Cardiff on Saturday.

Uncapped Ospreys tight-head Aaron Jarvis, 26, plugs the gap created by Adam Jones's knee injury.

In the back row Josh Turnbull comes in as Ryan Jones (shoulder) and Dan Lydiate (ankle) are also out.

Scott Williams takes over from fellow Scarlet Jonathan Davies (groin) at outside centre.

Bayonne's Phillips, 30, and with 68 caps and a British and Irish Lions tour to South Africa on his CV, is on the bench as Knoyle, 22, looks forward to his eighth Wales appearance.

Howley said: "One or two injuries have forced our hands in certain areas in terms of selection, but the fact that we are still able to field a side packed with Grand Slam experience shows that we have been able to develop some depth in recent years.

"There are obvious opportunities for the likes of Aaron, Tavis at scrum-half and Josh in the back row, to pull on the jersey against Argentina and try to make it their own.

"We all know how important a good start against the Pumas will be to our November series; they arrive battle-hardened after a tough Rugby Championship campaign.

"They will be looking to silence the Millennium Stadium crowd from the outset and we know we can't afford to let that happen, with a successful campaign this autumn vital to our ambitions for the future."

Jarvis, who qualifies for Wales via his Merthyr Tydfil-born grandmother, has his chance after joining the Ospreys from Bath ahead of the 2011-12 season.

Turnbull, 24, wins his fifth cap, having been given the nod ahead of Scarlets team-mates Rob McCusker and Aaron Shingler in the absence of Lydiate and Ryan Jones.

There are obvious opportunities for the likes of Aaron, Tavis at scrum-half and Josh in the back-row

Blues lock Bradley Davies is also ruled out along with Ospreys centre Ashley Beck, who has an on-going hip problem.

Overall, there are four changes to the Wales team that won the 2012 Grand Slam and seven changes to the starting line-up that lost to Australia in June.
Jarvis, Turnbull, Knoyle and Scott Williams are the incoming players since the 16-9 win over France that sealed the Six Nations crown. That quatet also missed the tour to Australia.

Wales were whitewashed 3-0 on tour down under and lock Alun Wyn Jones hopes that can motivate Wales as they begin an autumn series that includes Tests against Samoa, New Zealand and the Wallabies.

Blues centre Jamie Roberts missed the tour to Australia and returns alongside number eight Toby Faletau and Ian Evans while Jarvis is the newcomer.
Beck and Ryan Jones are expected to be fit ahead of Wales' clash against Samoa on Friday, 16 November.

weird selection. Howley has Antipodean previous..........help!!

Well of all the possible permutations I envisaged this is not even close.

Knoyle, Priestland, Roberts Scott as our midfield? Anyone else in worse form they could select? I don't think so.

Also our best loosehead and hooker this season have been Paul James and Hibbard and yet neither start!

The best 7 this year by a mile is Tipuric, again a non starter. We have then selected a player who is playing a lot at 7 at blindside despite having several players in the squad who have played there this season.

The best 10 in Wales this year? Biggar, no where to be seen.

I am very confused. Maybe they are keeping some players back for later games but these selections have just made me a lot less confident.

The Wales team to play Argentina in the Dove Men Series opener at the Millennium Stadium on Saturday (2.30pm) shows just four changes to the starting line-up from the 2012 RBS Six Nations Grand Slam winning side - including one debutant.

Up front Ospreys prop Aaron Jarvis comes in for his injured team-mate Adam Jones (knee) on the tight-head to win his first cap, whilst Scarlets flanker Josh Turnbull makes his second start in national colours, winning his fifth cap, in place of Dan Lydiate (also injured - ankle).

In the backs, Scarlet Tavis Knoyle replaces Mike Phillips at scrum-half who provides cover from the bench and another Scarlet, Scott Williams replaces his regional team mate Jonathan Davies in the centre.

Davies was unavailable for selection this week after failing to fully recover from the groin injury he sustained whilst on Scarlets duty against Clermont in the Heineken Cup. The Wales medical team say he is working incredibly hard on his rehabilitation and his situation will be continually monitored.

Also ruled out of contention for the Argentina game, alongside Davies and Osprey Ryan Jones (shoulder), was Ospreys centre Ashley Beck who will be allowed more time to recover from an ongoing hip injury sustained prior to entry into this campaign. Beck will undergo a week of rehabilitation and conditioning which should enable him to be available for selection for next week's clash with Samoa (Friday 16th November).

Williams partners Jamie Roberts in the centre, with Roberts returning to international duty for the first time since the Grand Slam climax against France at the Millennium Stadium last March.

Roberts missed Wales' recent tour of Australia after undergoing knee surgery and he is one of seven players to come into the starting line-up since that final Test in Sydney.

None of Jarvis, Turnbull, Knoyle, Roberts or Williams faced the Wallabies last time out and they are joined by Dragons No. 8 Toby Faletau (who replaces the injured Ryan Jones) and Ospreys second row Ian Evans, in for Blues lock Bradley Davies, from that final game of the summer tour.

On the bench Perpignan pivot James Hook joins Phillips and Scarlets full-back Liam Williams - who could win his second cap - as cover for the backs.

Front row cover is provided by Ospreys pair Richard Hibbard (hooker) and Ryan Bevington and Bath prop Paul James.

Ospreys flanker Justin Tipuric is joined by Scarlets back row Rob McCusker as forward cover to complete the line-up.

"One or two injuries have forced our hands in certain areas in terms of selection, but the fact that we are still able to field a side packed with Grand Slam experience shows that we have been able to develop some depth in recent years," said Wales interim head coach Rob Howley.

"There are obvious opportunities for the likes of Aaron (at prop), Tavis at scrum-half and Josh in the back row, to pull on the jersey against Argentina and try to make it their own.

"We all know how important a good start against the Pumas will be to our November series, they arrive battle-hardened after a tough Rugby Championship campaign. They will be looking to silence the Millennium Stadium crowd from the outset and we know we can't afford to let that happen, with a successful campaign this Autumn vital to our ambitions for the future."

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Scott Williams, Jamie Roberts, George North; Rhys Priestland, Tavis Knoyle; Gethin Jenkins, Matthew Rees, Aaron Jarvis, Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Josh Turnbull, Sam Warburton (Captain), Toby Faletau

REPLACEMENTS: Richard Hibbard, Ryan Bevington, Paul James, Rob McCusker, Justin Tipuric, Mike Phillips, James Hook, Liam Williams