Player Burnout

First topic message reminder :

Its monday morning, so what better than a cross sport thread?

I was listening to the radio on the way to work and was hearing about "player burnout" with specific reference to tennis players now that the Masters is about to take place in London.

They were saying that Ferrer has only two days between winning a tournament and appearing in the next due to the heavy schedule of todays top tennis players. They claimed that like golf, there is no off season anymore and its a continual merry go round that inevitably leads to burn out.

So my question is - what do you think is the toughest sport physically (and I suppose mentally) over a year?

Tennis that means that the top guys have to play once every few days competitively?
Golf where the tour never seems to end and that competitors are playing 4 days straight?
Football where players are playing 10 months of the year every few days?
Rugby that is the most physically aggressive during the season?
Boxing which is obviously very physical but where top competitors only battle a few times a year (at best)
Motor racing?

Lets hear your thoughts and the reasons for your answer......

Don't start TopHat. You know exactly what I am talking about!

darts

cherriesfan wrote:darts

Perfect illustration of both the 'shoe' and 'smoking' theory.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

cherriesfan wrote:darts

Perfect illustration of both the 'shoe' and 'smoking' theory.

F1 is debatable as a sport. Basically you need a strong neck and the ability to drive fast. I doubt it is physically difficult as something like a triathlon.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Think triathlon is the toughest event.
.

No way, cycling on the flat which is all they do isnt that tough, nor is the swimming. Id rather do a standard triathalon than run a marathon.

Diggers wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Think triathlon is the toughest event.
.

No way, cycling on the flat which is all they do isnt that tough, nor is the swimming. Id rather do a standard triathalon than run a marathon.

If the swimming "isn't that though" then why is it over such a shorter distance than cycling ever is? I'm yet to find anyone say cycling (or running for that matter) is tougher than swimming over the same distance.

Its the fact that they dont swim a really long distance that makes it not that tough, though clearly its outdoors so the conditions are a factor on how hard it is. Also the swimming part is clearly the slowest element and the least interesting for any spectators so a ten mile swim wouldnt make for a good watch.

Today´s tennis has to be the most brutal of all sports in my view.
The training regime, the practice, time in the gym. Time travelling around the world. Jet lag. A lone sport which does not allow (except exceptional cases) to build friendships and relationships outside the sport. Sustained injuries are numerous Often serious. Adjustment to different surfaces and stringent regulations Language difficulties Lack of family support. It must be one of the most mentally as well as physically exhausting sports. When on tour its a 24/7 job. Who works those sort of hours.

I dont really see how you can compare tennis in terms of "brutality" to say rugby union. Especially the modern professional game.
It seems to me relatively rare that a tennis player is out for a huge amount of time, whereas anyone who plays a contact sport is far more likely to pick up injuries. Even footballers pick up a lot of knocks but the career drop out rate in rugby these days is very high, which isnt suprising considering the intensity of the game at the top level.
Tennis is for sure a tough grind but I dont think it takes the same physical toll as a full impact contact sport.

I do because Rugby is a team sport... you can rely on your team mates even when you are having an off day. How often does a Rugby player play 5 hours at a stretch on HIS OWN. Take GS two weeks at a stretch playing every other day..may be five sets. The day off in between is training, practiicing. End of GS you fly half way round the world maybe a 8 hour flight to a different time Zone and start the whole process again. The Tennis season is a long one. Rugby players play on grass the whole of their professional life. Tennis players, this week clay, next week hard court, next week grass .. this week indoors hard court, next week outdoors clay. This week Australia God knows what degrees celcius. Next week hard court night matches maybe until 12 oclock at night. ..need I go on. You haven´t got a team mate to pat you on the head and say "had a good game today laddo". No comparison

Havent got a team mate ? How many of the top tennis players do you think travel alone these days ? Murray has about 10 people to pat him on the head, towell him down, give him a yoga session and cook his meal.
Of course its hard but rugby players play on soft and hard surfaces that are nowhere near as flat and even as a lovely tennis court, and of course the main point is you dont get utterly flattenedtime and time again by a 17 stone nutter on a tennis court.
I can guarantee you that a rugby player spends an awful lot more time out injured over their career than a tennis player.
In terms of a mental grin tennis is no doubt right up there, but in terms of physical stress and fatigue on the body it wont be anywhere near an impact sport. No comparion is spot on. Tennis brutal, I dont think so.

Haddie you make some good points there.

I suppose in the end they're quite different to each other but I would imagine that the combined physical and emotional burden on tennis is greater given that it is an individual sport, where your results determine your pay. There are no contracts except sponsorship for the lucky few (which are also subject to performance).

The Goodall story seems to exemplify this struggle.

Well just as well we all have our own opinion isn´t it..

So we agree to disagree...

Ty emncipator.

emancipator wrote:Haddie you make some good points there.

I suppose in the end they're quite different to each other but I would imagine that the combined physical and emotional burden on tennis is greater given that it is an individual sport, where your results determine your pay. There are no contracts except sponsorship for the lucky few (which are also subject to performance).

The Goodall story seems to exemplify this struggle.

Compare that to the vast numbers of guys playing union these days whose careers are cut short by injury,or their talents diminished because of a serious injury.
And if you arent performing in a team there is also added pressure. Play badly and someone and you get replaced and then lose your contract if you cant get back in the side, and at at least in tennis you only have to rely on yourself rather than perhaps having a poor team...so as far as I can see it works both ways.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Well just as well we all have our own opinion isn´t it..

So we agree to disagree...

Of course, the fact I can consider you to be incorrect doesnt mean I cant respect your opinion. I guess we all have our own definitions of what constitutes brutal as well.

Ill ask you one more question... after a Rugby match... and you have had your jolly little bath with your team mates ... where do you go... down the pub, then home to the loving wife and family ???: (even Zara Phillips if your lucky )

Ask yourself how many tennis players are married... ??? how many can you name.??? why do you think that is ?? Most land up retiring when they want to be with their families. Warwrinka actually walked away from his child and girlfriend to continue his career.. I challenge you to read J.McEnroe´s Autobiography,. Andre Agassi´s and even Rafa´s. Brutal has many definitions one being an enormous strain on one´s character- It isn´t just physical its mental. Tennis can and is often a very lonely life. Having a paid coach to say well done boy is not the same as having someone who cares about you as a person. Team means exactly that you play as a team and think like a team and support each other as a team.

Diggers wrote:

emancipator wrote:Haddie you make some good points there.

I suppose in the end they're quite different to each other but I would imagine that the combined physical and emotional burden on tennis is greater given that it is an individual sport, where your results determine your pay. There are no contracts except sponsorship for the lucky few (which are also subject to performance).

The Goodall story seems to exemplify this struggle.

Compare that to the vast numbers of guys playing union these days whose careers are cut short by injury,or their talents diminished because of a serious injury.
And if you arent performing in a team there is also added pressure. Play badly and someone and you get replaced and then lose your contract if you cant get back in the side, and at at least in tennis you only have to rely on yourself rather than perhaps having a poor team...so as far as I can see it works both ways.

I agree it does work both ways to an extent except contracts are not terminated overnight for a poor performance.

I also agree that from a 'brutal' physical pov in so much as injury and physical hurt are concerned rugby would have more impact but whether it is tougher from a cardio respiratory pov I'm not so sure. In fact I think tennis is more brutal in that sense.



Emancipator

i dont agree with you a lot of the time HN, but you make some really good points here. It really does depend on the way you look at it, very valid points from both sides here.

You seem to be forgetting how many players go to hospital after a rugby match, that doesnt happen very often after a tennis knockabout does it ?
The fact that tennis players are not married doesnt necessarilly make life harder for them, having a family brings an awful lot of stress as well.
Remember the top rugby players...who as you say are often married...also have to tour in the summer when they can be away from their families for months.
Anyway Im constantly seeing various players girlfriends in the crowds at tournaments, again they really dont seem to be lacking for an arm round the shoulder as far as I can see.
Ive never seen a definition of brutal that says its a strain on ones charachter, thats more likely your own interpretation Id imagine. Which is fair enough but its not the word Id use. Stressful yes, wearisome yes....brutal not in the slightest. Getting trampled and gouged by a south african prop forward, now thats brutal.
By the way I have read McEnroes autobiography which I thought was a good advert for why sportsmen should use ghost writers by the way. I didnt come away from it thinking oh my lord, that poor guy. McEnroe and Agassi are complex charachters, I suspect whatever sport they played their books would read much the same. Do you think if you read an autobiography by say Martin Johnson its going to tell you how easy the sport is and what a cushty life he had ?

LoS awwwww you dont agree with me a LOT of the time... ouch !!!!

My belief regarding the committment that a tennis player has to make to his sport has never changed.. but more than ever in today´s tennis. Yes they earn good money who would deny it. But the sacrifice they have to make in their poersonal life is one I believe beyond comparison to any other sport. Roger I believe is already realising what he is having to give up .. not spending as much time with his little ladies as he would wish I believe. Years he will not get back.
Johnny Mc deliberately used to get himself disqualified from playing in order to go home to spend time with his kids. Andre Agassi´s first marriage broke up because of his tennis committments.

Im not a Rugby fan and so maybe I haven´t the same empathy with the sport .. so for that I apologise. But my opinion remains the same

I think on the emotional side it depends on the person, how they can cope, whether they are a loner. Some people are happy to be away from home, some hate it. You cant make a general statement that covers everybody on tour on an emotional level. Also Tim Henman managed to combine family life and a career on tour and Ive never heard him complain about it, in fact Id imagine he was gutted when he had to stop playing. It may be a tough life but its also a very privileged one.
By the way Im a far bigger tennis fan than I am a rugby fan, this is just an objective opinion as far as Im concerned.

Diggers wrote:You seem to be forgetting how many players go to hospital after a rugby match, that doesnt happen very often after a tennis knockabout does it ?
The fact that tennis players are not married doesnt necessarilly make life harder for them, having a family brings an awful lot of stress as well.
Remember the top rugby players...who as you say are often married...also have to tour in the summer when they can be away from their families for months.
Anyway Im constantly seeing various players girlfriends in the crowds at tournaments, again they really dont seem to be lacking for an arm round the shoulder as far as I can see.
Ive never seen a definition of brutal that says its a strain on ones charachter, thats more likely your own interpretation Id imagine. Which is fair enough but its not the word Id use. Stressful yes, wearisome yes....brutal not in the slightest. Getting trampled and gouged by a south african prop forward, now thats brutal.
By the way I have read McEnroes autobiography which I thought was a good advert for why sportsmen should use ghost writers by the way. I didnt come away from it thinking oh my lord, that poor guy. McEnroe and Agassi are complex charachters, I suspect whatever sport they played their books would read much the same. you think if you read an autobiography by say Martin Johnson its going to tell you how easy the sport is and what a cushty life he had ?

I sense your irritation/ annoyance in this response Digger so I suggest we end this conversation whilst we are being reasonably civilised to each other ALBEIT we are on opposite sides of the Net

We will not agree so I suggest we put an end to it

Im not remotely irritated or annoyed, its just a debate about two sports, both of which I have a lot of time for and enjoy watching.
But equally happy for you to opt out and equally happy to debate it with anyone who thinks its an interesting subject.

Just as an aside, I believe that the overall divorce rate of sportsmen/women is significantly higher than in most careers so it would seem they all feel added pressure on that front.
That and the fact that they probably have temptation thrust at them a lot more often than us mere mortals.

Good !!! as Becker said .." its only a game of tennis nobody died " and as far as temptation goes he should know LOL