Lewis vs Klits 2 - 6 months later - who wins???

Would Klits be too one dimensional ?.....Would Lewis be even slower and the jab less penetrative ? ......Would Lewis be more motivated and ready this time??? (Vit was a sub!!).....Did Lewis smell the coffee and get off the pot realising how strong Klits was.. knowing that he couldn't keep Vitali off at his age for 12 rounds???

Real interesting fight....Vitali's outrage at the stoppage tended to suggest he felt he had a great chance to win....

However the Brit/Canadian had an admirable habit of never being fooled twice!!!! (smart fighter)

You know what.......I think Lewis nicks a decision!!!

Wouldn't bet the house on it though....

I think same as you truss that this would be right in the balance. Lewis would be the favourite but I wouldnt rule vitali out. I wonder if this thread will drag gordy out?

I'd go for Vitali. Younger, fresher and too skilled for Lewis who at that stage was on the downslide.

I think Lewis would have ground out a close points win in a rematch. He would have made sure he was in better shape 2nd time round thats for sure.

Problem here is that it really was two fighters at opposite ends of there careers.

Lewis was 37 approaching 38 heading into the fight & following his destruction of Tyson he had already been considering hanging up the gloves. He was expecting to fight Kirk Johnson yet stepped in with a vastly different opponent in Vitali.

His preparation had been for a 6ft 5 American who lets be honest was never going to trouble him...instead he ended up facing an as yet unbeaten fighter who was taller than him (something which Lewis wasn't used to).

Whilst Vitali certainly impressed enough to have a valid claim for a rematch I think people get a little caught up on the first 3 Rounds (more precisely the opening 2) of the fight.

Given Lennox was having to figure him out as he went along it should have been expected that the Klitschko would cause him problems...yet from Round 4 onwards you could see Lennox was getting to grips with him. I had Vitali 1 up at the time of the stoppage but once that cut was opened in the third it was a case of Lewis dissecting it with precision.

Had they fought again 6 months later it's difficult to say who wins...father time could have caught up with Lewis and left him there for the taking...however my opinion is that Lewis would have turned up in better shape and fully prepared and I would have expected him to do more or less the same. If anyone would/could knock out Vitali it was Lewis and I would hedge my bets on him stopping the Ukrainian late on.

azania wrote:I'd go for Vitali. Younger, fresher and too skilled for Lewis who at that stage was on the downslide.

Silly statement.

Lewis at that stage was clearly the better skilled fighter. Vitali was limited to jab jab straight right. Lewis threw every shot in the book at him.

Not a silly statement....Older fighters tend to gas at a decent pace....

Remember HBO had Vitali ahead......although Lewis was having a decent spell....

Good analysis Owen...

Certainly intriguing .................shame it didn't come off...

Certainly believe wlad gets splattered off Lewis at that time..

6 months later Vitali would have terrible scar tissue around his eyes and Lewis would bust him up again.

Depends how he healed Mate.....Not bled that much since has he??

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

azania wrote:I'd go for Vitali. Younger, fresher and too skilled for Lewis who at that stage was on the downslide.

Silly statement.

Lewis at that stage was clearly the better skilled fighter. Vitali was limited to jab jab straight right. Lewis threw every shot in the book at him.

No he wasn't. Vit had the better jab and fundermentals. Lewis was on the slide. 12 months previously and I wouldn't have given Vit much of a chance.

Lewis was the more polished...Mate.

But skillwise at that stage there wasn't much between them..

I would probably make Lewis a smallish favourite to win a close points win. Ive always considered Lewis to be a late bloomer in terms of when he peaked. I dont really think at the time he retired he was actually all that far off his peak. Mentally and motivationally he maybe was struggling but in terms of physically, experience and looking at his performances in his previous couple of fights I dont think he was shot or badly declining. The heavyweight division has changed alot insofar as size, power and strength are of greater importance than speed now. Earlier era heavyweights were smaller and when their speed declined were more vulnerable so they seemed to peak earlier. Nowadays 30 is quite young for a heavyweight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Lewis was the more polished...Mate.

But skillwise at that stage there wasn't much between them..

At that stage I have Vit ahead. Lewis seems slower and his jab lacked snap.

I think that was more down to his lack of conditioning. Think Lewis definately got slack on his training in his latter years,

As you say Truss, Lewis learned from his mistakes and he would be better prepared for the rematch and a win would be on the cards. I couldn't see Vitali being stopped though and I think Lewis retired at the right time.

Maybe you're right...consensus tends to agree with you..

Certainly depends on Vitali's cut...and how much more Lewis declines in 6 months..........

if lewis could get motivated and back in shape he had the capabilities to stop vitali fairly early. vitali fought with his heart and a great deal of naivety in the first fight and given his apparent stubborness i would expect the same from him second time round. only this time against a lewis who was better prepared and less tired.

however lewis didnt have the motivation and didnt seem able to get back into great shape, which would have left him vulnerable again, so he did the right thing and walked away. lewis was badly overweight at the time, and has been mostly ever since i think

Motivated Lewis = Early win
Unmotivated Lewis = Late stoppage win/Split decision

Motivation can only stall Father Time for a short while.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Wouldn't bet the house on it though....

Why not - surely your father-in-law can afford another one?

I'd make Lewis a small favourite. I always felt he was edging his way back into the first fight and even despite being visibly out of shape was a physical match for Vitali who was blowing hard by the 5th. As you say Lewis was a clever fighter who wasn't fooled twice, no doubt it would've been the hardest bout of his career as Vitali would've been primed to avenge what he saw as a poor stoppage (TV shows otherwise). But on balance I'd say that even at 38 Lewis would've had enough to outfox him over 12 rounds had he prepared with Vitali in mind. Close fight tho and a shame it couldn't have happened but you can't really blame Lewis for getting out when the going was good rather than falling into the same record/brain damaging trap that many of his peers did.

It's difficult to tell if Lewis' struggles against Vitali were primarily due to him being a bit long in the tooth by 2003 (as well as inactive, too) or to him simply overlooking his opponent. You'll have to forgive me for going for the boring / safe theory here, but I think it was probably a touch of both.

There have been a couple of suggestions that Lewis, if he trained properly and gave the fight the utmost focus, wins fairly easily, which I disagree with. Lewis' legs did seem to be on the wane by 2003; he certainly couldn't back up the way he once could, and at thirty-eight it's not ideal to be having to slug it out toe to toe with a heavy-handed, tall and durable Heavyweight like Vitali! The more I think about it, the more I find myself believing that Lewis made the smart move in retiring without seeking out the rematch. Peak for peak, it's Lewis for me but I do think he was advancing to the other side of the hill by 2003 / 2004.

Had they met for a second bout around that time, I think it would be an absolute war, ala Bowe-Golota. Lewis demonstrated that he could dig deep when the fight was a grueller or a shootout to get the win (Briggs, Mercer etc) and certainly isn't going to get pushed back as easily as the Arreolas, Adameks and Peters of this world. Up close, I'd fancy his better inside work to edge it out some way or another.

Lewis by a very close, and possibly even unpopular, decision.

If Lewis was entering a fight with Johnson under-prepared he must be pretty stupid seeing what happened to him against Rahman. That under-prepared excuse is wearing a little thin imo.

He was getting on a bit and Vitali was entering his prime. A true crossroads fight which reminded me of Sampras against Federer a few years back.

Well seeing as Lewis won the first fight fair and square, then if he had more time to train against Ks style and maybe be more prepared for his style, as well as his record of winning rematches I would say it would have either been a late stoppage win for LL or a UD for LL.

Perhaps if Vit had more time to prepare he would have put up a better fight.

Would have heavily backed Lewis. Lewis although troubled at first by Vitali had him in real trouble before it was stopped.

The fight would have scared Lewis and I think he would of trained super hard for his final fight to beat him more decisively.

Ps spellcheck stopped working on my PC, I am exposed!

VK came in that fight fired up and looked like he wanted to overwhelm Lewis and blast him out.. And to his credit in the first couple rounds he looked like he might do it.. But Lewis began landing some good shots and VK started to tire.. And due to some of those good shots VK had a huge cut which rightfully stopped the fight.

For me while there was a curiosity of how the fight would have gone if it had continued Lewis won he fight fair and square.

To guess how the fight may have gone do we take away the punch that busted his eye and go from there? ..would that be fair? Or do we just not pull VK out and let him continue? If the former then to me it looked like VK was gassing and was loosing power and Lewis although also tired was looking more composed and i think would have gone on to win.. If it was the latter then VK would have probably ended up fighting with one eye allowing Lewis to land more and i think would have KOed him in the mid late rounds.. Thats if VK had any face left by then..

Who'd have thought this fight would go on to bear so much significance - I'm certain it gets discussed on this forum more than any other fight. Wonder why that is?

I may have to go and watch it again (for the umpteenth time). My opinion won't change though, Vitali was fired up but did his best work in the first few rounds, his punches were having less of an effect by the 5th whereas LL's were starting to hurt Vitali more - the monstrous uppercut alone would've taken a good percentage out of VK's legs, and that's before we get to the horrific cut that Lennox was pounding at. I think it's unfair to think about how the fight would've gone without the cut as it was caused by a legitimate punch and worsened by legit punches. If it were an accidental headbutt then fair enough. I believe Lewis had started to figure Vit out after a slow start and wouldve won anyway, the cut just hastened the result.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Who'd have thought this fight would go on to bear so much significance - I'm certain it gets discussed on this forum more than any other fight. Wonder why that is?

I may have to go and watch it again (for the umpteenth time). My opinion won't change though, Vitali was fired up but did his best work in the first few rounds, his punches were having less of an effect by the 5th whereas LL's were starting to hurt Vitali more - the monstrous uppercut alone would've taken a good percentage out of VK's legs, and that's before we get to the horrific cut that Lennox was pounding at. I think it's unfair to think about how the fight would've gone without the cut as it was caused by a legitimate punch and worsened by legit punches. If it were an accidental headbutt then fair enough. I believe Lewis had started to figure Vit out after a slow start and wouldve won anyway, the cut just hastened the result.

So believing as you do Sugar Boy, could a case be made for that cut hurting Lewis' legacy more than Vitali's by giving cause for what ifs where there otherwise wouldn't have been?

Il Gialloblu wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Who'd have thought this fight would go on to bear so much significance - I'm certain it gets discussed on this forum more than any other fight. Wonder why that is?

I may have to go and watch it again (for the umpteenth time). My opinion won't change though, Vitali was fired up but did his best work in the first few rounds, his punches were having less of an effect by the 5th whereas LL's were starting to hurt Vitali more - the monstrous uppercut alone would've taken a good percentage out of VK's legs, and that's before we get to the horrific cut that Lennox was pounding at. I think it's unfair to think about how the fight would've gone without the cut as it was caused by a legitimate punch and worsened by legit punches. If it were an accidental headbutt then fair enough. I believe Lewis had started to figure Vit out after a slow start and wouldve won anyway, the cut just hastened the result.

So believing as you do Sugar Boy, could a case be made for that cut hurting Lewis' legacy more than Vitali's by giving cause for what ifs where there otherwise wouldn't have been?

Yes that's one way of perceiving it. If like me you think Lewis would've gone on to win the fight then in terms of his legacy it would've been better if that outcome had played itself out, rather than the less satisfying outcome that has led to infinite 'what if' articles such as this.

Silly question! Only Ali was capable of beating a fully fit and motivated Lennox Lewis. When Lewis conquered Tyson there was nothing left for him to accomplish. He was right to retire rather than waste his time with boxers who werent fit to share the ring with him!

Gordy wrote:Silly question! Only Ali was capable of beating a fully fit and motivated Lennox Lewis. When Lewis conquered Tyson there was nothing left for him to accomplish. He was right to retire rather than waste his time with boxers who werent fit to share the ring with him!

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeres Gordy!

It's a bit like beetlejuice! :-)

Gordy wrote:Silly question! Only Ali was capable of beating a fully fit and motivated Lennox Lewis. When Lewis conquered Tyson there was nothing left for him to accomplish. He was right to retire rather than waste his time with boxers who werent fit to share the ring with him!

Oliver McCall did it.

i think alot is made about lewis's condition for the fight, but to me lewis was hitting a stride and vitali was feeling it. i dont think he has ever been made to work at that pace before or after.

in a immediate rematch, much like the 1st fight i cant see it been a full 12 rounds, both fighters took some huge shots and good chin or not nobody can take that for 12 without been ko'd or stopped.

vitali may have the edge in a rematch been fitter and hungrier, but no doubt lewis would have turned up with his a game and much better shape too, so it really is 50 50. that said, lewis was bigger and slower than he'd ever been, right at the end of his career, facing a replacement ergo lewis will always be better than vitali in reality. and prime lewis takes apart vitali.

alma wrote:Lewis Couldn't even knock out a mental Oliver mccall, as Az says.

Who was Lewis originally supposed to fight? I didn't realise until recently vitali was a late sub.

Six months later I think a narrow Lewis points win would have been the outcome.

nobody has ever knocked mccall out so i dont think lewis should be any different, infact lewis is the only guy to beat him inside the distance. why that should count against him ill never no. lewis was also on him from round 1 and didnt take anything back. best he could have done in that situation.

I think the comments were more for gordys benefit eddy. No biting yet though

:-) as long as we don't get the 'Lewis should be given the first McCall fight as a win because he was so dominant I the second' again!!

Sorry but this is getting silly. I said when Lewis was FULLY fit and motivated. Look at what he did to those guys in the rematches when he was properly focused. Only Ali had the kind of skills, determination and mentality to beat Lewis at his best. I dont count the first fight he lost as Don King was involved and the ref was very suspect. Lewis was not allowed to continue when he would have easily won if the ref allowed him to.

It would be Lewis for me if they rematched within 6 months.

Clearly a major assumption here is that Lewis comes in fitter and more focused. His previous success in revenge missions convince me this would be no different.

I don't argue with the score cards at the time of the stoppage in the first fight but let us not forget that Vitali was also doing well to hang in there too. He was a mess and taking big shots.

He was easy to hit for a Lewis that was gassing, let alone a fit and focused version.

Gordy just to reiterate noone is saying Lewis isn't a great but he lost the first McCall fight fair and square. No shame in that. But it is what holds him back when comparing him with other top fighters. Small margins and everything

alma wrote:

Gordy wrote:Sorry but this is getting silly. I said when Lewis was FULLY fit and motivated. Look at what he did to those guys in the rematches when he was properl
y focused. Only Ali had the kind of skills, determination and mentality to beat Lewis at his best. I dont count the first fight he lost as Don King was involved and the ref was very suspect. Lewis was not allowed to continue when he would have easily won if the ref allowed him to.

Lewis was all over the place in that first fight. If he'd carried on he'd have been flattened seconds later. Just accept that sometimes fighters lose. These things happen. Wlad has been knocked out three times, but he'll still be in a top 30 of all time heavyweights I think. Hopkins lost his debut, pacquiao lost early doors. These things happen.

I think its a case of how a fighter looses, do they lose because another fighter has their number?, uses a style that is too much for them?... or because they just came in unfocused, over confident.. or made a silly mistake?

How can you make sure?, have a rematch and see how it goes.

Yep. I'm a huge Lewis fan, he's one of my all time favourite fighters but he lost to McCall and that's that. He was a much better fighter than McCall but he got caught with a good shot and at heavyweight sometimes that's all it takes. No shame in it, he won the rematch albeit in very peculiar circumstances and retired having beaten every man he fought - few fighters can say that so why try to big him up even further and go down the road of the ridiculous.

Gordy wrote:Sorry but this is getting silly. I said when Lewis was FULLY fit and motivated. Look at what he did to those guys in the rematches when he was properly focused. Only Ali had the kind of skills, determination and mentality to beat Lewis at his best. I dont count the first fight he lost as Don King was involved and the ref was very suspect. Lewis was not allowed to continue when he would have easily won if the ref allowed him to.

He was fully fit and motivated against McCall. Look what happened. McCall called the punch between rouds and landed it in the next round.

In the rematch, McCall was not fully fit or motivated Had he been, the result would have been the same as their first fight.

Lewis to anybody fairminded...Improved wholesale after the first Mccall fight....

Think you're being harsh there..