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FC Ich spreche kein Deutsch - Russell Elmo

VivaPaulScholes wrote:I can understand and see great players from other sides such as Toure, Mata, Carzorla, Bale, etc. I am not biased to Man Utd, if I think a player is better then Scholes I'd say it but there is no better then him.

I realise that really, but you started throwing dirty accusations of Liverpool loving when I didn't share the same opinion of Scholes.

it shows a real intolerance of others opinions of players

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:https://www.606v2.com/f176-the-fan-gilhaus-whooooo-league

That's where the new page should be, CF.

Wilshere is miles ahead of Cleverly for me. Does everything better.

Yeah like winning trophies and staying injury free HAHAHAHAHAHA

Cleverley isn't exactly Mr Indestructable with injuries now, is he?

You might be interested to know that Tom Cleverley has won a grand total of 1 trophy with United - the Community Shield.

I don't love Wilshere. I think he is a bit of knob, who likes his own voice to be honest. I'm just not blind to his ability because he doesn't play for my team (or any other top 4 team for that matter)

All lies! You love him like a fat kid love cake (props to Fiddy). Also, I wouldnt say your blind to his ability but its like your look through Arsene Wenger/Arsenal Fans tinted glasses, you speak like hes the saviour of the England national team, he is the lord christ himself who has been gone for a long amount of time only to return to play football before he helps us all repent our sins!
WOW!!! I see now see what you see Afro! He is in fact like Jesus, who died & was reborn to save us all! (I think thats right, im not Christian so apologise to those of you who are if thats incorrect).

Viva, maybe Wilshire is the one. He is Jesus, Neo, He-Man, Luke Skywalker & Batman all in one. Afro is just the Oracle telling us what we cant see yet.

I'm going to leave this argument Viva.

The opinion that to be better than Paul Scholes at 19 you have to win the Balloon Door by the time your 23 is ridiculous. Paul Scholes was never close to winning the Balloon Door.

It's similar to saying to be a better goalscorer than Heskey at 21, you must go on to win the European Golden Boot by the time your 25

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:https://www.606v2.com/f176-the-fan-gilhaus-whooooo-league

That's where the new page should be, CF.

Wilshere is miles ahead of Cleverly for me. Does everything better.

Yeah like winning trophies and staying injury free HAHAHAHAHAHA

Cleverley isn't exactly Mr Indestructable with injuries now, is he?

You might be interested to know that Tom Cleverley has won a grand total of 1 trophy with United - the Community Shield.

I don't know about you but I would rather win the COmmunity Shield rather then nothing in my Footballing career. A cup is a cup. Yes but Cleverley is not the great English hope that WIlshere is made out to be. Even ROoney struggled with that tag and he was a far far far far far far more talented player then Wilshere.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

I don't love Wilshere. I think he is a bit of knob, who likes his own voice to be honest. I'm just not blind to his ability because he doesn't play for my team (or any other top 4 team for that matter)

All lies! You love him like a fat kid love cake (props to Fiddy). Also, I wouldnt say your blind to his ability but its like your look through Arsene Wenger/Arsenal Fans tinted glasses, you speak like hes the saviour of the England national team, he is the lord christ himself who has been gone for a long amount of time only to return to play football before he helps us all repent our sins!
WOW!!! I see now see what you see Afro! He is in fact like Jesus, who died & was reborn to save us all! (I think thats right, im not Christian so apologise to those of you who are if thats incorrect).

Viva, maybe Wilshire is the one. He is Jesus, Neo, He-Man, Luke Skywalker & Batman all in one. Afro is just the Oracle telling us what we cant see yet.

like the black lady from the Matrix films?

Right WUM's aside. Question for you?

Why is it just the Arsenal hating, Man U fans who claim Wilshere to be an average footballer, and everyone else recognise a player of ability and immense potential?

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:https://www.606v2.com/f176-the-fan-gilhaus-whooooo-league

That's where the new page should be, CF.

Wilshere is miles ahead of Cleverly for me. Does everything better.

Yeah like winning trophies and staying injury free HAHAHAHAHAHA

Cleverley isn't exactly Mr Indestructable with injuries now, is he?

You might be interested to know that Tom Cleverley has won a grand total of 1 trophy with United - the Community Shield.

I don't know about you but I would rather win the COmmunity Shield rather then nothing in my Footballing career. A cup is a cup. Y

By your winning trophies argument that would mean Mikael Silvestre/Kleberson > Robin Van Persie

BigFellasAfro wrote:I'm going to leave this argument Viva.

The opinion that to be better than Paul Scholes at 19 you have to win the Balloon Door by the time your 23 is ridiculous. Paul Scholes was never close to winning the Balloon Door.

It's similar to saying to be a better goalscorer than Heskey at 21, you must go on to win the European Golden Boot by the time your 25

You can't leave I've shut the door you're trapped inside.

By the way it was 18 year old Wilshere not 19. An of course he has to win the Balloon Door, if he is already better then Scholes who is regarded as one of the greatest not by me but world class managers who know about Football then Wilshere has to win the Balloon Door easily. If he can already be better then Scholes at 18 then its only upwards for the lad.By the time he is 23 he should be 10 times the player Scholes is. An if Scholes who is better then Gerrard and Lampard who have finished in top 3 and been nominated for Balloon Door then Wilshere should obviously win it a million times in a row.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:https://www.606v2.com/f176-the-fan-gilhaus-whooooo-league

That's where the new page should be, CF.

Wilshere is miles ahead of Cleverly for me. Does everything better.

Yeah like winning trophies and staying injury free HAHAHAHAHAHA

Cleverley isn't exactly Mr Indestructable with injuries now, is he?

You might be interested to know that Tom Cleverley has won a grand total of 1 trophy with United - the Community Shield.

I don't know about you but I would rather win the COmmunity Shield rather then nothing in my Footballing career. A cup is a cup. Yes but Cleverley is not the great English hope that WIlshere is made out to be. Even ROoney struggled with that tag and he was a far far far far far far more talented player then Wilshere.

Well if a cup is a cup, Wilshere won a couple at youth level for Arsenal. Ultimately it doesn't matter, Cleverley is behind Wilshere in PL appearances, CL appearances, and will certainly be behind in the England pecking order.

This isn't me saying he's better than Scholes either - I don't subscribe to that view yet, but he is better than Cleverley.

.

Fernando wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:https://www.606v2.com/f176-the-fan-gilhaus-whooooo-league

That's where the new page should be, CF.

Wilshere is miles ahead of Cleverly for me. Does everything better.

Yeah like winning trophies and staying injury free HAHAHAHAHAHA

Cleverley isn't exactly Mr Indestructable with injuries now, is he?

You might be interested to know that Tom Cleverley has won a grand total of 1 trophy with United - the Community Shield.

I don't know about you but I would rather win the COmmunity Shield rather then nothing in my Footballing career. A cup is a cup. Y

By your winning trophies argument that would mean Mikael Silvestre/Kleberson > Robin Van Persie

And Ben Foster, Roger Johnson and Scott Dann > David de Gea, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones

like the black lady from the Matrix films?

Spot On.

Afro is the Oracle! He was seen Wilshire becore the best player in the world in exactly 1 month, 2 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 56 minutes & 7 seconds. After he beats Ronaldo & Messi to the Balloon Door without even being nominated he then goes on to disarm every nuclear warhead on this planet, cure cancer & finishes up by giving Stephen Hawking the ability to walk again.

You heard it hear first, our load saviour Jack Wilshere does ALL that & more!

I know, you said before, but don't spoil the magic Afro, if they know you're pulling their legs they won't be angry.

sodhat wrote:I know, you said before, but don't spoil the magic Afro, if they know you're pulling their legs they won't be angry.

Fair enough. I've deleted my post in order to encourage more comedy drivel

question...

whats happening with lawyers and foreigns? are they open at the moment?

Fernando wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:https://www.606v2.com/f176-the-fan-gilhaus-whooooo-league

That's where the new page should be, CF.

Wilshere is miles ahead of Cleverly for me. Does everything better.

Yeah like winning trophies and staying injury free HAHAHAHAHAHA

Cleverley isn't exactly Mr Indestructable with injuries now, is he?

You might be interested to know that Tom Cleverley has won a grand total of 1 trophy with United - the Community Shield.

I don't know about you but I would rather win the COmmunity Shield rather then nothing in my Footballing career. A cup is a cup. Y

By your winning trophies argument that would mean Mikael Silvestre/Kleberson > Robin Van Persie

It is possible afterall they played for world cup winning teams and league winning teams, while they accepted the challenege of playing at the highest level leaving their safe zone Van Persie prefered the safe easy option. Now that he has moved to United he has shown some bottle but he has to win things before he can be judged as a top class player. Big players win cups for you like CLeverly helped United win the charisty shield.

Ben Foster, Roger Johnson and Scott Dann > David de Gea, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones

Apostolos Vellios >>> Rooney & Chicharito
#BelieveThat

BigFellasAfro wrote:Right WUM's aside. Question for you?

Why is it just the Arsenal hating, Man U fans who claim Wilshere to be an average footballer, and everyone else recognise a player of ability and immense potential?

I'm a Utd fan that doesn't wear blinkers btw and I certainly rate Wilshere > Cleverley.

Lawyers are up in the league pages

You get 2 foreigns each week; they must be based on transfermarkt.co.uk values. They are first come first served, so if a player is available, just copy the link on the TP Bid Page and confirm the transfer.

Yes. You have two lawyers offers which you can accept at any point until the next ones go up (next Tuesday).

you also have two foreigns per week (Tuesday to Monday), still have both left, and can buy players worth upto £13m on the TM value website.

There is a list of players in the league which is correct up to the end of Monday

sodhat, afro, Pizacek and barzaghli are NFS..

schelmezer would be avaliable if i could get a replacment LB

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

Ben Foster, Roger Johnson and Scott Dann > David de Gea, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones

Apostolos Vellios >>> Rooney & Chicharito
#BelieveThat

What has Vellios won

Why is it just the Arsenal hating, Man U fans who claim Wilshere to be an average footballer, and everyone else recognise a player of ability and immense potential?

OK, seriously, I would say that. My Arsenal fan, season ticket holding cousin doesnt rate Wilshere as highly as you lot. I actually have a total of 4 arsenal fan mates who dont. They dont judge him on 15 + month ago like you lot tho. Thats where your problem lies.
Ask any football fan to judge him on last season & they cant.
Nobody has denied he has talent, but that talent has not been seen for too long now to start saying he better than x player y player.

Cleverly has a proven progress record in the 15 + month Wilshere has sat out.

Does anyone here interview potencial staff where they work? Marky, Maccie D's dont count I mean real salary jobs. #JustKidding

Who would you deem better:
1) Kid whos walked out of Uni with a distinction in their degree who than spent 16 months in Thialand contracting every disease possible
OR
2) Kid thos walked out of Uni with a 2:1 in their degree, gone straigh into a job and worked hard for 16 months go build on his skills.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

Why is it just the Arsenal hating, Man U fans who claim Wilshere to be an average footballer, and everyone else recognise a player of ability and immense potential?

OK, seriously, I would say that. My Arsenal fan, season ticket holding cousin doesnt rate Wilshere as highly as you lot. I actually have a total of 4 arsenal fan mates who dont. They dont judge him on 15 + month ago like you lot tho. Thats where your problem lies.
Ask any football fan to judge him on last season & they cant.
Nobody has denied he has talent, but that talent has not been seen for too long now to start saying he better than x player y player.

Cleverly has a proven progress record in the 15 + month Wilshere has sat out.

Does anyone here interview potencial staff where they work? Marky, Maccie D's dont count I mean real salary jobs. #JustKidding

Who would you deem better:
1) Kid whos walked out of Uni distinction with a degree than spent 16 months in Thialand contracting every disease possible
OR
2) Kid thos walked out of Uni with a 2:1 gone straigh into a job and worked hard for 16 months go build on his skills.

Could you refer to him as Paul Scholes+ please

I don't get how you can not rate someone because they have been injured. It's like that erases how well they played before they were injured, and magically removed all memory of them ever being alright at kicking a ball.

He made 35 PL appearances in 2010-11, made the PFA team of the year. That's where the rating comes from.

Could you refer to him as Paul Scholes+ please

NO!
If you answer the above question then I shall call him The Great Holy Lord Saviour

I don't get how you can not rate someone because they have been injured. It's like that erases how well they played before they were injured, and magically removed all memory of them ever being alright at kicking a ball.

Soddy, because you can. There are loads and loads of young players who have talent, get injured and are not the same again. Arron Ramsey is the prefect example.

The real question is:
How can you rate a player in 2012/13 season based on his preformances from the 2010/11 season?

Along with:
Who would you deem better:
1) Kid whos walked out of Uni distinction with a degree than spent 16 months in Thialand contracting every disease possible
OR
2) Kid thos walked out of Uni with a 2:1 gone straigh into a job and worked hard for 16 months go build on his skills.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

I don't get how you can not rate someone because they have been injured. It's like that erases how well they played before they were injured, and magically removed all memory of them ever being alright at kicking a ball.

Soddy, because you can. There are loads and loads of young players who have talent, get injured and are not the same again. Arron Ramsey is the prefect example.

The real question is:
How can you rate a player in 2012/13 season based on his preformances from the 2010/11 season?

Along with:
Who would you deem better:
1) Kid whos walked out of Uni distinction with a degree than spent 16 months in Thialand contracting every disease possible
OR
2) Kid thos walked out of Uni with a 2:1 gone straigh into a job and worked hard for 16 months go build on his skills.

Define "better".

Who would look better in a "oh look how hard he's worked sense", the second chap.

Who would have the better pedigree, and be able to slot right in, it's the first.

Like I say with injuries - just because he went travelling after getting a distinction didn't reduce his brains to mush.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:The real question is:
How can you rate a player in 2012/13 season based on his preformances from the 2010/11 season?

Along with:
Who would you deem better:
1) Kid whos walked out of Uni distinction with a degree than spent 16 months in Thialand contracting every disease possible
OR
2) Kid thos walked out of Uni with a 2:1 gone straigh into a job and worked hard for 16 months go build on his skills.

Answer 1: Because that's all we CAN rate him on. It's not his fault he was injured for 17months, so in order to assess his ability, we have to use the only sample available - 2010-'11 season. And his few performances since returning, naturally.

I would deem Kid 1, the one who is clearly a cut above everyone else. Only kids who get distinctions are allowed to shake the Chancellor's hand, the rest have to walk past like an evrage Joe.

He made 35 PL appearances in 2010-11, made the PFA team of the year. That's where the rating comes from.

What a load of BS.
James Milner made the PFA Team of the Year in 09/10.
Ashley Young made the Championship TOTY in 05/06 then the Premiership in 07/08 & 08/09.
Whats you point? Because he made the TOTY it mean hes great?
Even Kieron Dyer made a TOTY. I could name many more that have who are all poop and went on to be poop. Just because you make a team of the year is doesnt mean your great. Especially if you have played football since you made that team.

I would go with 1) also. He has shown himself to be better than 2).

There are plenty of hard workers in my office, but it is the ones who have the better qualifications (and gonnorrhea), who are seen as the future leaders

are my injuries Xhaka and Jaasklainen?

injury page says it is, but afro said its Pizcek and Joaquin..

It's cup week no.2

So your injuries are in the cup section

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

He made 35 PL appearances in 2010-11, made the PFA team of the year. That's where the rating comes from.

What a load of BS.
James Milner made the PFA Team of the Year in 09/10.
Ashley Young made the Championship TOTY in 05/06 then the Premiership in 07/08 & 08/09.
Whats you point? Because he made the TOTY it mean hes great?
Even Kieron Dyer made a TOTY. I could name many more that have who are all poop and went on to be poop. Just because you make a team of the year is doesnt mean your great. Especially if you have played football since you made that team.

No, it means that's the only thing we can judge him on that is grounded in fact. He didn't erase his season because he spent time on the treatment table.

He was also the PFA Young Player of the Year. Does it make him world class, and sure to succeed? No. But look at the list of players that have won the award, and it's clear the majority of them turn in to stars.

How are you supposed to lead or be the best when you are too ill to make it into the office let alone being the bestest?

I rather have someone who offers me 70% commitment then someone who has the potential to offer me 80% commitment but is always ill.

I think the point is that we was ill, but isn't any longer.

Who would you rather have - the clever kid who was off sick from work for a year with a bad illness but is no back to work fit as a fiddle, or the plodder who has never had a day off work, but can't do anything outside his set routine

I would deem Kid 1, the one who is clearly a cut above everyone else. Only kids who get distinctions are allowed to shake the Chancellor's hand, the rest have to walk past like an evrage Joe.

You clearly dont do hiring for the company you work for.

You guys carry on playing the flute solo over Wilshere. Until he shows some promise like previous I wont rate him.
Good call from all you three to ignore the Aaron Ramsey point I made. It certanly doesnt help your point so we best just pretend nothing of the sort was mentioned.

sodhat wrote:

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

He made 35 PL appearances in 2010-11, made the PFA team of the year. That's where the rating comes from.

What a load of BS.
James Milner made the PFA Team of the Year in 09/10.
Ashley Young made the Championship TOTY in 05/06 then the Premiership in 07/08 & 08/09.
Whats you point? Because he made the TOTY it mean hes great?
Even Kieron Dyer made a TOTY. I could name many more that have who are all poop and went on to be poop. Just because you make a team of the year is doesnt mean your great. Especially if you have played football since you made that team.

No, it means that's the only thing we can judge him on that is grounded in fact. He didn't erase his season because he spent time on the treatment table.

He was also the PFA Young Player of the Year. Does it make him world class, and sure to succeed? No. But look at the list of players that have won the award, and it's clear the majority of them turn in to stars.

You're wrong mate out of the last 20 years Ronaldo is the only one that you could really class as world class.

You didn't rate Ramsey before his injury. I remember the discussion on him.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

He made 35 PL appearances in 2010-11, made the PFA team of the year. That's where the rating comes from.

What a load of BS.
James Milner made the PFA Team of the Year in 09/10.
Ashley Young made the Championship TOTY in 05/06 then the Premiership in 07/08 & 08/09.
Whats you point? Because he made the TOTY it mean hes great?
Even Kieron Dyer made a TOTY. I could name many more that have who are all poop and went on to be poop. Just because you make a team of the year is doesnt mean your great. Especially if you have played football since you made that team.

No, it means that's the only thing we can judge him on that is grounded in fact. He didn't erase his season because he spent time on the treatment table.

He was also the PFA Young Player of the Year. Does it make him world class, and sure to succeed? No. But look at the list of players that have won the award, and it's clear the majority of them turn in to stars.

You're wrong mate out of the last 20 years Ronaldo is the only one that you could really class as world class.

I didn't mention world class, that was you implying it.

No, it means that's the only thing we can judge him on that is grounded in fact. He didn't erase his season because he spent time on the treatment table.

He was also the PFA Young Player of the Year. Does it make him world class, and sure to succeed? No. But look at the list of players that have won the award, and it's clear the majority of them turn in to stars.

OK, let not ignore Ashley Young. After all hes been in a PFA TOTY three, yes thats right THREE times. You cant ignore that fact hes quality Soddy, i mean its grounded in fact.

Ashley Young is quality isn't he

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

He made 35 PL appearances in 2010-11, made the PFA team of the year. That's where the rating comes from.

What a load of BS.
James Milner made the PFA Team of the Year in 09/10.
Ashley Young made the Championship TOTY in 05/06 then the Premiership in 07/08 & 08/09.
Whats you point? Because he made the TOTY it mean hes great?
Even Kieron Dyer made a TOTY. I could name many more that have who are all poop and went on to be poop. Just because you make a team of the year is doesnt mean your great. Especially if you have played football since you made that team.

No, it means that's the only thing we can judge him on that is grounded in fact. He didn't erase his season because he spent time on the treatment table.

He was also the PFA Young Player of the Year. Does it make him world class, and sure to succeed? No. But look at the list of players that have won the award, and it's clear the majority of them turn in to stars.

You're wrong mate out of the last 20 years Ronaldo is the only one that you could really class as world class.

I didn't mention world class, that was you implying it.

Ok you said they turn into stars, Parker, Milner, Young, Walker, Kewell, Jenas, Bellamy, Sharpe, are hardly players that you can call stars. Ronaldo, Rooney, Fabregas are stars. Beckham, Owen, Fowler are good players. So its really a mix bag, a player winning YPOTY don't mean he'll turn into a star his most likely to turn into a good player.

BigFellasAfro wrote:Ashley Young is quality isn't he

Ahsley Young > Juan Mata

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

No, it means that's the only thing we can judge him on that is grounded in fact. He didn't erase his season because he spent time on the treatment table.

He was also the PFA Young Player of the Year. Does it make him world class, and sure to succeed? No. But look at the list of players that have won the award, and it's clear the majority of them turn in to stars.

OK, let not ignore Ashley Young. After all hes been in a PFA TOTY three, yes thats right THREE times. You cant ignore that fact hes quality Soddy, i mean its grounded in fact.

He is a quality player - and I fail to see your point.

He has England caps, plays for the team 1st in the league, and I'm pretty sure he won a bronze medal for diving at London 2012.

Those are the facts.

Wilshere was great in his YPotY season. he thoroughly deserved to win it, despite great seasons from Bale and Chicharito.

The question seems to be whether you can retain your rating of him based on that, if he has been out for a long period (some like Ramsey aren't as good, some like Jovetic come back and are even better).

Personally, I will base my rating on their last games I have seen them and drop it down to say 75% until I see any sign of their old form

If Tom Cleverley is better than Jack Wilshere, Grant Holt is better than Wayne Rooney. Cleverley is so good he cant even displace a 37/38 year old

All it simply means is during that year they were thought of as having the best season amongst their peers of similarly aged players, no-one has a crystal ball into how they will then pan out, Fergie doesn't and we certainly don't.
We can certainly speculate upon it based on how they've performed so far and especially how they perform against similar aged players but it's not set in stone.
Adu and Messi were both hailed as the future best player in the world from a young young age. We all know how their careers went.
Look at some of the kids I've got like Jese, Deulofeu and Suarez, all three of those had supposed huge futures ahead of them, only time will tell if they do.