Austin Healey was he the best?

by HERSH Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:24 pm

Was Austin Healey the most naturally gifted player to grace the NH game?

IMO he could have been.

Discuss.

by Submachine Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:31 pm

Buckaroo?

by lostinwales Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:32 pm

Difficult to define naturally gifted. I couldnt vote for that.

Most irritating/ mouthy git. That is a possibility he certainly has a reputation.

Definitely in with a shout if you wanted to vote on most versatile however. How many players come along who at a pinch you could pick in any position in the backs?

by LordDowlais Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:45 pm

Good player, but he just could not keep his gob shut. I remember him moaning after a powergen cup game against the Dragons, he was saying that the ref was biased, and basically did what he could to wind the Welsh up, I actually found him quite funny on times, but boy is he arrogant. furious

by BlueNote Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:46 pm

No. He may have thought he was at the time. How often was he even a first choice pick for England, though? If you're looking for wasted natural talent, it's at London Welsh.

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:50 pm

As soon as you get a reputation for being a utility player, immediately you get the label jack of all trades, master of none. It's not always justified but it depends on what you describe as natural gifts. Passing, stepping, tackling, running - Healey's name does not spring to mind when considering these.

Besides the word grace and Healey do not sit well with each other.

by **rodders** Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:51 pm

No but he was the most talented player to grace Orrell for a while in the mid 90s.

by maestegmafia Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:06 pm

Was he even the in the top ten of English players over the period he played in?

Richard Hill
Martin Johnson
Trevor Woodman
Mike Catt
Jonny Wilkinson
Jason Robinson
Will Greenwood
Kieran Bracken
Matt Dawson
Jerry Guscott

by **LondonTiger** Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:11 pm

Best Scrum half I have seen play at Welford Road (including opposition). Shame that he wanted to be 10 and that SCW/Henry put him on the wing so often.

by SecretFly Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:12 pm

HERSH wrote:Was Austin Healey the most naturally gifted player to grace the NH game?

IMO he could have been.

Discuss.

...assuming therefore that he wasn't.

by maestegmafia Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:14 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Best Scrum half I have seen play at Welford Road (including opposition). Shame that he wanted to be 10 and that SCW/Henry put him on the wing so often.

I guess that you weren't at any Tigers vs Wasps games in the Early 00's lucky enough to see Rob Howley play...?

by IanBru Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:22 pm

For me, it's between Healey, Colin Charvis, Kelvin McKenzie and Saddam Hussein.

God, I just can't make up my mind.

by **LondonTiger** Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:36 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Best Scrum half I have seen play at Welford Road (including opposition). Shame that he wanted to be 10 and that SCW/Henry put him on the wing so often.

I guess that you weren't at any Tigers vs Wasps games in the Early 00's lucky enough to see Rob Howley play...?

Howley was past his best when he played for Wasps (tell Poitrenaud that Smile

). He only played once at WR in a match Tigers won easily. Healey was at Full Back that day.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:42 pm

I feel sorry for Healey, to a point, when people bang on about him being arrogent. I remember, I think it was around the RWC, he was on tv (Jonathan on s4c i think) and was getting stick about how he always talks up the English and he said 'hell I am English, and I talk my side up, the same as you lot talk up your side'. I disliked him as a player, but think he would be assuming enough if he were to someone you knew down your local.

by tatterd Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:54 pm

No, but he had the best hair transplant ever to grace a professional rugby player's head

by nathan Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:55 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Good player, but he just could not keep his gob shut. I remember him moaning after a powergen cup game against the Dragons, he was saying that the ref was biased, and basically did what he could to wind the Welsh up, I actually found him quite funny on times, but boy is he arrogant.

doesnt that describe about every 9 though?

by ScarletSpiderman Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:59 pm

just noticed the thread title is missing '...player to have even been named after a car' at the end.

by yappysnap Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:02 pm

He was an atrociously good player, brilliant vision and game awareness coupled with decision making and the confidence to try anything and it'd usually work.

He did fall foul of coaches, the media and other players at times running his mouth of but then he was a maverick. It's not like we're here to play tiddlywinks is it?

And to top all that he nailed the crossbar challenge.

Austin Healey- legend

by lostinwales Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:03 pm

Joking apart there is an issue that with the verbals (justin harrison /plank comes to mind) the hair and the fact that he was mr.utility its easy to forget that he was more than a decent rugby player.

by killer938 Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:11 pm

The whole point about being "naturally gifted" is that it is natural, therefore it is not something that you can learn.

In terms of pure natural talent, he is definitely up there in my opinion.

Passing - he played scrum half so his passing must have been a pretty decent standard
Stepping - this is what he was mainly known for, he created things out of nothing (see Heineken Cup final 2001)
Tackling - he wasn't a big hitter but he was one of the best covering tacklers England has had (this actually seems to be a theme with Tigers scrum halves as Ellis and now Youngs are the same)
Running - he played on the wing for England so he can't have been too bad at this as well

When you consider he played every position in the backline for England at some point and never looked out of place and did things that no other player on the England team could do, I think you have to consider that in terms of natural ability he was one of the best.

Oh and yappy, can't believe I forgot the crossbar challenge, anyone who can put one in there for the "egg chasers" has to be a legend.

To be honest, I am amazed no-one has tried to get him to be a backs coach

by HERSH Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:12 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Best Scrum half I have seen play at Welford Road (including opposition). Shame that he wanted to be 10 and that SCW/Henry put him on the wing so often.

I guess that you weren't at any Tigers vs Wasps games in the Early 00's lucky enough to see Rob Howley play...?

Howley? Hmmm very good scrum half but Healey could play anywhere in the backs for Club or Country so from that point of view I rate Austin more.

Even Matt Dawson admits that Healey could pass the ball better than him!

by lostinwales Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:21 pm

Well Dawson was a bit like Mike Phillips now - you dont pick them for the skills so much as what they can do.

by **LondonTiger** Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:21 pm

lostinwales wrote:Joking apart there is an issue that with the verbals (justin harrison /plank comes to mind) the hair and the fact that he was mr.utility its easy to forget that he was more than a decent rugby player.

What always seems to be forgotten when this is mentioned is the foul play committed by Harrison to cause the comment. Healey had scored a try, Harrison came in late and dropped the knee into Healey thus ruling him out of the 3rd test - a match Henry had intimated he would feature in.

Harrison's act was cowardly, sneaky and pathetic. He deserved worse names than plank.

by HERSH Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:25 pm

Harrison "Class A is OK"

So Austin was right he is a Plank.

by Geordie Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:51 pm

Well done Hersh thumbsup

by RogerLewis Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:42 pm

Austin Healey is the most exotic spelling of Shane Williams I've ever seen.

by HERSH Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:55 pm

RogerLewis wrote:Austin Healey is the most exotic spelling of Shane Williams I've ever seen.

Yet again someone else has fallen into the trap!

SW great player once again but he couldn't play 10, 12 or 13, Healey could.

by ME-109 Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:09 pm

Most naturally gifted???? Not sure what that means. If it means bucket loads of talent etc then the majority of the Welsh backs in the 70's, Mike Gibson etc would come to mind. Blanco, Sella and about a 100 more players would come before him.

He was a decent utility player though.

by HERSH Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:14 pm

I can't help but think you're allowing Austin’s mouth to cloud your judgment!

by mckay1402 Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:15 pm

Personally I think James Simpson Daniel is a better player.

by maestegmafia Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:20 pm

DOD wrote:Most naturally gifted???? Not sure what that means. If it means bucket loads of talent etc then the majority of the Welsh backs in the 70's, Mike Gibson etc would come to mind. Blanco, Sella and about a 100 more players would come before him.

He was a decent utility player though.

+1

I don't think it is right to compare him to anyone other than his peers to be fair.

He wasn't even a major player for England was he? I thought of him as a utility Wing/Scrum Half who was mainly on the bench. His profile says he played 9, 10 and wing.

If the debate was about the variety of positions covered, then Healey's three positions is not comparable to many players who have been capped at 10, 12, 13, 15 and wing, like 75 cap Mike Catt.

by ospreysboyo Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:21 pm

Actually, Shane would pop up in pretty much every position in the backs in any given game, and he used to kick at goal (with mixed success) for Neath back in the day!!! I think he could have played centre or 10 at a push!! In response to the actual question, 'no' is the correct response, however I will always have fond memories of his exchanges with Justin Harrison for the Lions!!

by RogerLewis Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:22 pm

HERSH wrote:
RogerLewis wrote:Austin Healey is the most exotic spelling of Shane Williams I've ever seen.

Yet again someone else has fallen into the trap!

SW great player once again but he couldn't play 10, 12 or 13, Healey could.

Well if you have watched many Wales internationals over the past 12 years (being Wales' biggest fan I'm sure you have), you would see Shane Williams regularly appearing at 9 and 10 throughout the match. He could have played anywhere. During his first few seasons at Neath he was the primary kicker.

Your article is regarding naturally gifted, not how many positions they can play.

Most naturally gifted would be:

BOD
Shane Williams
Jason Robinson
Gavin Henson
Thomas Castegneide
Danny Cipriani

Johnny Wilkinson gets my vote for professionalism, hard work, attitude and dedication, but not natural ability

by ME-109 Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:23 pm

Hersh he was a very good player. Not in the brilliant league though and its nothing to do with his mouth.

by RogerLewis Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:23 pm

HOW DID I FORGET JAMES HOOK!

Technically an attacking genius.

by ME-109 Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:27 pm

RogerLewis wrote:
HERSH wrote:
RogerLewis wrote:Austin Healey is the most exotic spelling of Shane Williams I've ever seen.

Yet again someone else has fallen into the trap!

SW great player once again but he couldn't play 10, 12 or 13, Healey could.

Well if you have watched many Wales internationals over the past 12 years (being Wales' biggest fan I'm sure you have), you would see Shane Williams regularly appearing at 9 and 10 throughout the match. He could have played anywhere. During his first few seasons at Neath he was the primary kicker.

Your article is regarding naturally gifted, not how many positions they can play.

Most naturally gifted would be:

BOD
Shane Williams
Jason Robinson
Gavin Henson
Thomas Castegneide
Danny Cipriani

Johnny Wilkinson gets my vote for professionalism, hard work, attitude and dedication, but not natural ability

I even think you are wrong with a lot of these players (including BOD and SW). They had to work hard at what they did to improve. Including Henson and Cipriani show where it went wrong in the hard work stakes at least.

Blanco to my mind was the most gifted and visionary player, Gibson, Gerald Davies, Gareth Edwards. Robinson I would include.

by **LondonTiger** Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:29 pm

maestegmafia wrote:If the debate was about the variety of positions covered, then Healey's three positions is not comparable to many players who have been capped at 10, 12, 13, 15 and wing, like 75 cap Mike Catt.

Healey started tests at SH, FH, Wing and FB while playing Centre from the bench on a handful of occasions. In his last year of Test rugby he actually appeared in every position. True Catt had 20 more caps.

by RogerLewis Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:29 pm

Sorry I was just talking about more recent players.

Pre 90's....

Gareth Edwards
Blanco
Sella
Gavin Hastings
Campo
Jiffy

by sirtidychris Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Very good utility player could have had a better career if he stuck to one position....right thats enough about james hook, austin healey was a mouthy little fella who wore stupid shoes on occassion but had a an amazing set of skills.

by Bathman_in_London Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:11 pm

RogerLewis wrote:
HERSH wrote:
RogerLewis wrote:Austin Healey is the most exotic spelling of Shane Williams I've ever seen.

Yet again someone else has fallen into the trap!

SW great player once again but he couldn't play 10, 12 or 13, Healey could.

Well if you have watched many Wales internationals over the past 12 years (being Wales' biggest fan I'm sure you have), you would see Shane Williams regularly appearing at 9 and 10 throughout the match. He could have played anywhere. During his first few seasons at Neath he was the primary kicker.

Your article is regarding naturally gifted, not how many positions they can play.

How about Matt Giteau as a recent most talented player? In fact thinking about it quite a few Aussie players in recent times could play in a lot of positions for the 2nd best side in the world. Take o'connor for example. L

Most naturally gifted would be:

BOD
Shane Williams
Jason Robinson
Gavin Henson
Thomas Castegneide
Danny Cipriani

Johnny Wilkinson gets my vote for professionalism, hard work, attitude and dedication, but not natural ability

by RogerLewis Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:50 pm

Bathman_in_London wrote:
RogerLewis wrote:
HERSH wrote:
RogerLewis wrote:Austin Healey is the most exotic spelling of Shane Williams I've ever seen.

Yet again someone else has fallen into the trap!

SW great player once again but he couldn't play 10, 12 or 13, Healey could.

Well if you have watched many Wales internationals over the past 12 years (being Wales' biggest fan I'm sure you have), you would see Shane Williams regularly appearing at 9 and 10 throughout the match. He could have played anywhere. During his first few seasons at Neath he was the primary kicker.

Your article is regarding naturally gifted, not how many positions they can play.

How about Matt Giteau as a recent most talented player? In fact thinking about it quite a few Aussie players in recent times could play in a lot of positions for the 2nd best side in the world. Take o'connor for example. L

Most naturally gifted would be:

BOD
Shane Williams
Jason Robinson
Gavin Henson
Thomas Castegneide
Danny Cipriani

Johnny Wilkinson gets my vote for professionalism, hard work, attitude and dedication, but not natural ability

by RogerLewis Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:50 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
DOD wrote:Most naturally gifted???? Not sure what that means. If it means bucket loads of talent etc then the majority of the Welsh backs in the 70's, Mike Gibson etc would come to mind. Blanco, Sella and about a 100 more players would come before him.

He was a decent utility player though.

+1

I don't think it is right to compare him to anyone other than his peers to be fair.

He wasn't even a major player for England was he? I thought of him as a utility Wing/Scrum Half who was mainly on the bench. His profile says he played 9, 10 and wing.

If the debate was about the variety of positions covered, then Healey's three positions is not comparable to many players who have been capped at 10, 12, 13, 15 and wing, like 75 cap Mike Catt.

by mckay1402 Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:56 am

I think Jiffy was up there as one of the most naturally gifted players. simply unplayable at times.

by maestegmafia Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:03 am

LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:If the debate was about the variety of positions covered, then Healey's three positions is not comparable to many players who have been capped at 10, 12, 13, 15 and wing, like 75 cap Mike Catt.

Healey started tests at SH, FH, Wing and FB while playing Centre from the bench on a handful of occasions. In his last year of Test rugby he actually appeared in every position. True Catt had 20 more caps.

Never seen him start at fullback, certainly he never played centre, you would have to prove that to anyone tobelieve that. He was a second choice England winger, mainly bench cover, who was picked at nine occasionally and once or twice at ten due to better players being injured.

I saw the comparisons above to Shane Williams, maybe he was similar in stature and had a sidestep but didn't have anywhere near the talent of Williams. Healey must of scored a third of the tries Shane did in his international career.

As I said before, Healey wasn't even the most skill full player in England at the time he played. In a backline where Catt and Robinson could do the same job as him but better and where always starting players.

by **rodders** Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:07 am

He definitely started at least one game at fullback... it was when Jason Robinson was injured if I remember right....can't remember the exact game but it was towards the end of his England run I think.

by **rodders** Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:09 am

mckay1402 wrote:I think Jiffy was up there as one of the most naturally gifted players. simply unplayable at times.

+ 1....shame about his pundit skills .... Whistle

by maestegmafia Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:29 am

rodders wrote:
mckay1402 wrote:I think Jiffy was up there as one of the most naturally gifted players. simply unplayable at times.

+ 1....shame about his pundit skills ....

I think jiffy beats Healey on that front too...!

by HERSH Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:37 am

Really Mae!

I think Austin really knows his stuff, I always enjoyed Healeys unbiased comments on the game, but I have to say listening to Jiffy is like having a testicles squeezed into a wine bottle RedWine

by ChequeredJersey Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:45 am

Jiffy beats Barnes and Inverdale on the commentary team front. That's about it. Healey, as an analysis, actually gives some quite useful technical insight. Jiffy adds nothing of the sort

by fa0019 Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:36 am

Cipriani relies a lot on his pace, he's probably the fastest 10 in world rugby.. without that however, he's an average player.

In his 2 years in SR his only contribution to the Rebels was the rare breakaway try due to his pace. Gameplay was poor and I don't think the Rebels were sorry to see him go.

Mike Catt had great pace too but his game was never based around that, neither is Henson's... 2 noted genuine natural talents to grace the European game in the last 20 years.

As for Healey.. when he did play 10 for Leicester or England is was always as a stop-gap intergame and he always looked limited. Without his gas, I don't think he would have been such a dangerous player.

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