Wlad vs Wach

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I am genuinely intrigued by this weekend's fight - not because I think Wach will win - I don't know enough about him to form an opinion, but I actually believe that Wlad has never fought someone who is larger than him (albeit marginally).

One of Wlad's favourite tactics is to "lean" on his (usually smaller) opponents. Take that away and he's lost a fairly significant part of his armoury. He has also recently lost the trainer who has made him the fighter he is today.

I think that Wlad will be out to prove a point and may be a touch more animated than usual. TKO by the end of 5 for me.

What do you guys reckon?

god how bad are maloney and witherspoon in the studio!! wlad cant throw combinations he is boring and to safe and is just glad he does nt have to pay manny 10 per cent , class stuff frank maloney! and tim saying[ i would have done this i would have done that wlad would have lasted with anyone from th 80s] wlad would have given tim a boxing lesson , im not a fan of the klitschkos but the lack of respect was shocking.

PPVxHOTTY wrote:

Small Time wrote:I don't understand how Wlad is allowed to hold anyone who gets in past his jab?

As long as he dosent push its perfectly legitimate isn't it

ive said that for ages now , i dont understand it myself , if you watch the haye fight he did nt have a chance , any time he got beyoned the left hand wlad would slam hes forearm round the back of hayes head , its a blatent foul but somehow gets away with it

The genius of PBF wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:He stood there taking punches trying to get his own off. He failed because he was too slow.

Haye ran away to try to get his punches off. Don't try to be so smug and arrogant you tw*t

He did not try to throw punches though did he just stood there taking punches...He failed because he is a shocking boxer.

Shouldn't you be stalking az or making Khan hate articles?...I will be smug all I want if it is putting a clueless poster like you in your place.

I think wach put up a better performance than haye because he was trying to be more aggressive. Haye seemed to be running away most of the fight. Wach seems to be moving forward more.

Wach was a walking chin, at least Haye made Wlad think.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Wach was a walking chin, at least Haye made Wlad think.

Wach did trouble wlad more than haye did with that punch.

But walking chin or not wach was more aggressive. Haye's performance was so timid.

How is Wlad fouling anyone?!

he is just very clever.

When someone like Haye/Wach/Mormeck etc etc throws a punch, he steps towards them so that there right/left hand does not connect hence why they are then together. If anything it seems people lunge at Wlad to get a punch off, but when his chin is mot there, he comes in close with a jab and hold.

Pefectly legal.

Wlad is a different class.

And I also agree that Wach gave a better performance than hate, although that was only due to his chin. He took power shots all night.....flush....and still took them. HAYE was never there to hit because he was blatantly scared and was there for a pay check.

Opinions I guess, but I feel that Hayes elusiveness and ability to slip punches and make Wlad think was better than Wach's attempt, which literally was just him lumbering around eating flush shots until he got close with a lottery punch.

The genius of PBF wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:He stood there taking punches trying to get his own off. He failed because he was too slow.

Haye ran away to try to get his punches off. Don't try to be so smug and arrogant you tw*t

He did not try to throw punches though did he just stood there taking punches...He failed because he is a shocking boxer.

Shouldn't you be stalking az or making Khan hate articles?...I will be smug all I want if it is putting a clueless poster like you in your place.

Haha priceless. There are people on here who I would take comebacks like that from who are knowledgable in boxing, Chris, Manos, Rowley, Captain......certainly not you haha. Everyone has just proved your arguement to be nonsense

Not a bad shift from Wladimir, all things considered. It should, at least, please the critics who point to him being almost invariably the bigger man, and taking on an undefeated contender shows that there was nothing old, washed up or 'damaged goods' about Wach, ala his last two opponents in Mormeck and Thompson.

Decent enough effort from Wach, who'll be in the contender ranks for a couple of years yet, I'd think. I reckon his showing tonight was better than just about any other Heavyweight in the world, outside of Vitali, Haye and maybe Povetkin, could muster against Wladimir right now.

88Chris05 wrote:Not a bad shift from Wladimir, all things considered. It should, at least, please the critics who point to him being almost invariably the bigger man, and taking on an undefeated contender shows that there was nothing old, washed up or 'damaged goods' about Wach, ala his last two opponents in Mormeck and Thompson.

Decent enough effort from Wach, who'll be in the contender ranks for a couple of years yet, I'd think. I reckon his showing tonight was better than just about any other Heavyweight in the world, outside of Vitali, Haye and maybe Povetkin, could muster against Wladimir right now.

Jesus, have K2 hired you to write about them Chris, Wach looked like a really big, incredibly slow street fighter.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:He stood there taking punches trying to get his own off. He failed because he was too slow.

Haye ran away to try to get his punches off. Don't try to be so smug and arrogant you tw*t

He did not try to throw punches though did he just stood there taking punches...He failed because he is a shocking boxer.

Shouldn't you be stalking az or making Khan hate articles?...I will be smug all I want if it is putting a clueless poster like you in your place.

Haha priceless. There are people on here who I would take comebacks like that from who are knowledgable in boxing, Chris, Manos, Rowley, Captain......certainly not you haha. Everyone has just proved your arguement to be nonsense

You dont have a comeback because your a clueless poster who serves no purpose on here apart from stalking az...I forgotten more about boxing than they know.

Again, Alex, I'd like to know how many Heavyweights, aside from the bigger names, could have put up more resistance against Wladimir than Wach did?

I'm not impressed with Wach as a fighter, don't get me wrong. But nor am I particularly impressed with Wilder, Helenius, Chisora or Arreola. However, given the state of the Heavyweight division, those men are likely to remain contenders for a while yet, and so too will Wach on that basis.

Not one of Wladimir's best nights or performances, but a reasonable one all the same.

Not saying there are, what I'm saying is Wach was absolute crap and wouldn't have gotten a title shot in many other eras.

So Chris just because Wach can take a shot like a punchbag that makes him better than the other contenders?...Deontay Wilder is the next best thing he is taking his time in the pro ranks to learn because he had a few amateur fights.

Wladimir Klitschko in a press conference call called Wilder one of the greatest sparring partners ever had and said he was a future superstar in the heavyweight division.

"Absolute crap" he was not. Audley was absolute crap against Haye. Bruce Seldon was absolute crap against Tyson. Wach did at least show a fine chin, managed to temporarily buzz the best Heavyweight in the world and also saw the final bell without any hint of "running", if people insist on calling it that.

Decidedly average, yes he is. But when the likes of Jack Roper, Jean-Pierre Coopman and Lorenzo Zanon have all been given Heavyweight title shots in the past, Wach's name doesn't look all that out of place, does it?

The genius of PBF wrote:So Chris just because Wach can take a shot like a punchbag that makes him better than the other contenders?...Deontay Wilder is the next best thing he is taking his time in the pro ranks to learn because he had a few amateur fights.

Wladimir Klitschko in a press conference call called Wilder one of the greatest sparring partners ever had and said he was a future superstar in the heavyweight division.

Not better per se, you understand, Floyd. But as of right now, capable of giving a better showing against Wladimir than the likes of Wilder, who has been incredibly protected for a man who is twenty-odd fights in to his professional career. It's my opinion that Wilder couldn't go the full twelve with Wladimir right now, but that's not to say that he won't improve enough to do so in the future, is it?

Wladimir also said that Mormeck bore similarities to Mike Tyson....

They should have just put a punchbag in the ring instead of Wach it would have offered just as much tonight...Haye also buzzed Wlad once in their fight you dont see people going on about it.

OK, I just struggle to give Wladimir (The best HW on the planet right now) much credit when he beats a guy who has looked pretty pants, fought awful fighters previously, hasn't fought anyone above domestic level and the biggest name is on his ledger is a 38 year old Kevin McBride. Just because he was able to walk through punches doesn't mean I will give Wlad much credit, he showed a good chin and nearly won the lottery but he was a moving punchbag 90% of the time and sometimes you could taken the word moving out of it.

The genius of PBF wrote:They should have just put a punchbag in the ring instead of Wach it would have offered just as much tonight...Haye also buzzed Wlad once in their fight you dont see people going on about it.

Who is "going on about it", Floyd? I mentioned it once in relation to Alex getting his knickers in a twist due to my having the sheer temerity to call Wach's performance tonight...Wait for it..."decent." Yes, that was it, just "decent."

I'm sorry but for me Wach gets a 10 out of 10 for taking punches tonight and thats about it.

The genius of PBF wrote:They should have just put a punchbag in the ring instead of Wach it would have offered just as much tonight...Haye also buzzed Wlad once in their fight you dont see people going on about it.

Should have just put a mouse in the ring instead of haye.

Wach was 27 fights unbeaten with 15 knockouts. he is 5 years younger than wlad, taller and heavier. He was a very live challenger. The fact he lost every round is a credit to Wlad being so good rather than Wach being that bad. (I think if Valuev fought Wlad it would be the same outcome).

Wach put up a good performance. He was moving forwards and throwing punches. He landed a very good right punch that rockjed wladamir and was unlucky that it was right at the end of the round.

Yes he did take flush punches all night but there was only 1 round out of 12 where he looked hurt all the other rounds it looked like he was losing badly but it never looked like he would get knocked out. He has an iron chin.

88Chris05 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:So Chris just because Wach can take a shot like a punchbag that makes him better than the other contenders?...Deontay Wilder is the next best thing he is taking his time in the pro ranks to learn because he had a few amateur fights.

Wladimir Klitschko in a press conference call called Wilder one of the greatest sparring partners ever had and said he was a future superstar in the heavyweight division.

Not better per se, you understand, Floyd. But as of right now, capable of giving a better showing against Wladimir than the likes of Wilder, who has been incredibly protected for a man who is twenty-odd fights in to his professional career. It's my opinion that Wilder couldn't go the full twelve with Wladimir right now, but that's not to say that he won't improve enough to do so in the future, is it?

Wladimir also said that Mormeck bore similarities to Mike Tyson....

Wilder and Price have both been pro about the same time and I dont see the difference in the opponents...I dont see anyone criticising Price like they do with Wilder even though he is older with more amateur fights.

Wlad said Mormeck had a similar style to Tyson not that he was anywhere on his level...The 2nd best heavyweight in my opinion in David Haye and Adam Booth also think Wilder is the next American World heavyweight champion.

Wilder and Klitschko have both done full on sparring for this training camp and has held his own.

I dont see how being a punchbag makes you a contender or is a good showing.

AlexHuckerby wrote:OK, I just struggle to give Wladimir (The best HW on the planet right now) much credit when he beats a guy who has looked pretty pants, fought awful fighters previously, hasn't fought anyone above domestic level and the biggest name is on his ledger is a 38 year old Kevin McBride. Just because he was able to walk through punches doesn't mean I will give Wlad much credit, he showed a good chin and nearly won the lottery but he was a moving punchbag 90% of the time and sometimes you could taken the word moving out of it.

Yes, and I understand that, mate. However, it's not as if credit is raining down upon Wladimir here, is it? I said it was a reasonable night's work for him, and that Wach's performance was decent on the basis of him at least standing up to what Wladimir had to offer and looking as if he could be one of the few men in the past eight years to have him in a spot of bother, albeit only temporarily.

If I'd been talking up Wlad's win, then fair enough. But a cursory glance at the adjectives used shows that isn't the case. A contender was put in front of him, and he did what was required. No need to pour credit over it, of course, but no need to go over the top with how awful both men were, either.

88Chris05 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:They should have just put a punchbag in the ring instead of Wach it would have offered just as much tonight...Haye also buzzed Wlad once in their fight you dont see people going on about it.

Who is "going on about it", Floyd? I mentioned it once in relation to Alex getting his knickers in a twist due to my having the sheer temerity to call Wach's performance tonight...Wait for it..."decent." Yes, that was it, just "decent."

Ha, don't take it personal Chris, I love you really

88Chris05 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:They should have just put a punchbag in the ring instead of Wach it would have offered just as much tonight...Haye also buzzed Wlad once in their fight you dont see people going on about it.

Who is "going on about it", Floyd? I mentioned it once in relation to Alex getting his knickers in a twist due to my having the sheer temerity to call Wach's performance tonight...Wait for it..."decent." Yes, that was it, just "decent."

Wach performance tonight was disgraceful.

The genius of PBF wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:So Chris just because Wach can take a shot like a punchbag that makes him better than the other contenders?...Deontay Wilder is the next best thing he is taking his time in the pro ranks to learn because he had a few amateur fights.

Wladimir Klitschko in a press conference call called Wilder one of the greatest sparring partners ever had and said he was a future superstar in the heavyweight division.

Not better per se, you understand, Floyd. But as of right now, capable of giving a better showing against Wladimir than the likes of Wilder, who has been incredibly protected for a man who is twenty-odd fights in to his professional career. It's my opinion that Wilder couldn't go the full twelve with Wladimir right now, but that's not to say that he won't improve enough to do so in the future, is it?

Wladimir also said that Mormeck bore similarities to Mike Tyson....

Wilder and Price have both been pro about the same time and I dont see the difference in the opponents...I dont see anyone criticising Price like they do with Wilder even though he is older with more amateur fights.

Wlad said Mormeck had a similar style to Tyson not that he was anywhere on his level...The 2nd best heavyweight in my opinion in David Haye and Adam Booth also think Wilder is the next American World heavyweight champion.

Wilder and Klitschko have both done full on sparring for this training camp and has held his own.

I dont see how being a punchbag makes you a contender or is a good showing.

The unfortunate truth is that Wach is a contender. A sad indictment for the division, of course, but an inescapable one all the same.

Who said it was a "good" performance by Wach, exactly? Certainly not me.

The genius of PBF wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:They should have just put a punchbag in the ring instead of Wach it would have offered just as much tonight...Haye also buzzed Wlad once in their fight you dont see people going on about it.

Who is "going on about it", Floyd? I mentioned it once in relation to Alex getting his knickers in a twist due to my having the sheer temerity to call Wach's performance tonight...Wait for it..."decent." Yes, that was it, just "decent."

Wach performance tonight was disgraceful.

So is your eyesight

AlexHuckerby wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:They should have just put a punchbag in the ring instead of Wach it would have offered just as much tonight...Haye also buzzed Wlad once in their fight you dont see people going on about it.

Who is "going on about it", Floyd? I mentioned it once in relation to Alex getting his knickers in a twist due to my having the sheer temerity to call Wach's performance tonight...Wait for it..."decent." Yes, that was it, just "decent."

Ha, don't take it personal Chris, I love you really

Reciprocated, fella. Don't take the light ribbing seriously.

Victor just so you know I dont debate with Klitschko fanboys.

The genius of PBF wrote:Victor just so you know I dont debate with Klitschko fanboys.

whatever floats your boat

if people are saying that haye put on a better performance than wach because he was hit less well does that mean that haye's performance was worse than thompsons and chris bairds? because they were hit less than haye.

Will be interesting to see the boxrec punch stats for the wlad v wach fight. be nice to see if wach thre more punches than haye or even landed more punches than haye.

Wladimir Klitschko UD12 David Haye

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 134/509 for 26 percent; Haye 72/290 for 25 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko KO10 Samuel Peter 2:

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 142/499 for 28 percent; Peter 35/199 for 18 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko KO11 Tony Thompson

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 121/411 for 29 percent; Thompson 150/408 for 37 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko UD12 Sultan Ibragimov

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 148/348 for 43 percent; Ibragimov 97/316 for 31 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko TKO7 Chris Byrd 2

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 117/265 for 44 percent; Byrd 51/117 for 44 percent.

Wach has one of the best chins i've ever seen, since ive ever started watching Wlad i only ever though Foreman punched harder and to land many vicious punches to the jaw i can't believe Wach lasted 12. Though i was peed in the 8th when cotton didn't stop it, vicious pounding....congrats to Wach, he is a warrrior.

BoxingFan88 wrote:Wach had one hell of a chin, but that's about it. I was also impressed with Wlad's defence after he got slightly buzzed. Wlad hit him clean so many times flush, Wach didn't roll with the punches, so does Wlad hit as hard as we thought?

Boring as usual mind you...

Wlad is a vicious puncher, nonbody could have stopped Wach, the guy would give McCall a run for his money in iron chin stakes. I had a feeeling he could take a punch well but that was incredible ...Best heavyweight chin i've seen, never seen a hw been hit by so many brutal punches by a genuine puncher and just about survive.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Jab, straight right......Jab, straight right......Jab, straight right......Jab, straight right......Jab, straight right......Jab, straight right......

It's maybe predictable but i could barely name a HW in history who could take those shots. Great chin!

I was blootered when i wrote the above, apologies for it making no sense

The heavyweights around nowadays are hopeless thats about all there is to it. Haye was just a Sky Sports marketed fighter he was never a real champion. Can you imagine if the likes of Ali, Foreman or Lewis were around now?? They would embarass the heavyweights around now. Looking over this thread shows how bad the division is when people are discussing whether its better to be a punching bad or a mouse! The whole division is not worth watching unless you are fooled by hype and marketing. People woul be better off watching old fights like Ali against Frazier and Foreman or Lewis aganst Tyson to see what proper heavyweight champions are like!

Lewis against Tyson, are you really trying to use that fight as an example of a great heavyweight fight?

Lewis against Tyson shows perfectly what being a great heavyweight champion is all about. Tyson was one of the most intimidating fighters in history with brutal power who would bully fighters mentally before his fights so that the were nervous wrecks by the time they had to face him. Look at poor Frank Bruno when he fought Tyson! People thought Lewis be intimidated and knocked out by Tyson but he wasnt fazed by Tyson at all and stood up to the bully before completely dominating him and knocking him. This is also what Ali did to Foreman in the Rumble in the Jungle and shows what real heavyweight champions are like. Not the rubbish ones around now. Haye would not last a round with guys fighters like Ali, Lewis, Frazier and Foreman. They are a completely different level.

I don' think anyone other than the most ardent of Tyson fans believed he would KO Lewis early. Tyson was completely shot and was given a masterclass.

Gordy

Lewis against Tyson was the very definition of a hyped fight, the result was a foregone conclusion with Tyson being 15 years removed from his very best, he'd lost much of his intimidation factor after Douglas beat him.

To say Tyson was a proper champion in 2002 is a joke and shows your boxing knowledge. He was completely washed up and past his prime by a good 15 years or so!!

Then you state the likes of Lewis would embarass Klitschko if they he was still around?!

I'm pretty sure it was a certain Vitall Klitschko giving Lennox a beating a few years back when he actually was still around!

victorgarco wrote:if people are saying that haye put on a better performance than wach because he was hit less well does that mean that haye's performance was worse than thompsons and chris bairds? because they were hit less than haye.

Will be interesting to see the boxrec punch stats for the wlad v wach fight. be nice to see if wach thre more punches than haye or even landed more punches than haye.

Wladimir Klitschko UD12 David Haye

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 134/509 for 26 percent; Haye 72/290 for 25 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko KO10 Samuel Peter 2:

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 142/499 for 28 percent; Peter 35/199 for 18 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko KO11 Tony Thompson

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 121/411 for 29 percent; Thompson 150/408 for 37 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko UD12 Sultan Ibragimov

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 148/348 for 43 percent; Ibragimov 97/316 for 31 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko TKO7 Chris Byrd 2

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 117/265 for 44 percent; Byrd 51/117 for 44 percent.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare Byrd and Haye's "puch avoiding" skills on pure number of times hit, since Byrd only lasted 7 rounds, whereas Haye went the full distance. Per round, Haye was hit far less than Byrd (and a similar ratio as Thompson)...

Haha the must be some Americans on this board with jealous comments like that! They never gave Lewis the credit he deserved for beating a legend like Mike Tyson. The way Lewis handled Tyson mentally and then completely outclassed him in the fight makes it one of the best performances I have seen. Mike Tyson is not everyones cup of tea but he was a great fighter and Lewis outclassed him, no excuses.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

victorgarco wrote:if people are saying that haye put on a better performance than wach because he was hit less well does that mean that haye's performance was worse than thompsons and chris bairds? because they were hit less than haye.

Will be interesting to see the boxrec punch stats for the wlad v wach fight. be nice to see if wach thre more punches than haye or even landed more punches than haye.

Wladimir Klitschko UD12 David Haye

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 134/509 for 26 percent; Haye 72/290 for 25 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko KO10 Samuel Peter 2:

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 142/499 for 28 percent; Peter 35/199 for 18 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko KO11 Tony Thompson

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 121/411 for 29 percent; Thompson 150/408 for 37 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko UD12 Sultan Ibragimov

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 148/348 for 43 percent; Ibragimov 97/316 for 31 percent.

Wladimir Klitschko TKO7 Chris Byrd 2

Total Punch Stats: Klitschko 117/265 for 44 percent; Byrd 51/117 for 44 percent.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare Byrd and Haye's "puch avoiding" skills on pure number of times hit, since Byrd only lasted 7 rounds, whereas Haye went the full distance. Per round, Haye was hit far less than Byrd (and a similar ratio as Thompson)...

Fair point but then you can also say that thompson hit klitschko with double the punches haye did in a round less too.

Anyway will be good to see the punch stats for this fight and see how wach did do.

The way Lewis handled Tyson mentally and then completely outclassed him in the fight makes it one of the best performances I have seen

Can assume you haven't watched much boxing and should be ignored.

Everyone's entitled to a freedom of speech, but those who get listened to have a structured reasoning behind their statements. Whereas you fall in to the "TVs dumbest" feature category.

Gordy wrote:Haha the must be some Americans on this board with jealous comments like that! They never gave Lewis the credit he deserved for beating a legend like Mike Tyson. The way Lewis handled Tyson mentally and then completely outclassed him in the fight makes it one of the best performances I have seen. Mike Tyson is not everyones cup of tea but he was a great fighter and Lewis outclassed him, no excuses.

You haven't seen the way Trevor Berbick completed negated Ali's speed and handed him a beating then have you? Lets ignore the fact that Ali, like Tyson, was completely finished as a fighter.

I think the Wach/Wlad fight showed qite well the differance between a big fighter who is just big a durable and a big fighter who is athletic and fast.

I though Wlad looked pretty sharp. Cant really complain about the jab,right hand tactic as he basically couldnt miss with it and was winning the rounds. I thought he went for it in round 8 and the ref should have stepped in there, or Wachs corner shown some mercy. But after that he seemed to feel Wach wasnt going to be shifted and didnt want to burn himself out a la the Purrity fight.

Wachs size and durabiliy might pose problems for a few other heavyweights but he is very slow all around. Gave it his best and never gave up but just didnt have the speed, balance or technique to really compete with Wlad.

Lewis was 2-5 to win so not sure who all these people were that thought Tyson were going to win

spencerclarke wrote:Lewis was 2-5 to win so not sure who all these people were that thought Tyson were going to win

Just Gordy and his supposed friends thought Tyson had a chance.