If you were picking a Lions squad based on the first 3 games of the Ais.

First topic message reminder :

NO WALES players would make the squad based on their performance today..

2 places that would be closely contested is 10==15.

At the moment the 10 shirt is between Flood and Sexton.

At the moment the 15 shirt is between Goode, Zebo,Brown(Mike) that is.

Discuss.

Right now HERSHy youve out done yourself, your are exactly 50% right, North and Cuthbert will go. Congrats on your best attempt of comment.

IanBru I thought Scotland did ok today, it was only the silly missed tackles that cost you, I though NZ looked poor compared to all blacks teams of the past.

I think Scotland will have a strong contingent on the Lions tour next year.

The whole Welsh team is very overrated. Yes, they won a grand slam. But by extremelly narrow margins. Not much seperates Wales/England/Ireland at the moment but Wales are touted constantly as being a great team. Their recent record against the SH opposition suggests othewise.

Gordy wrote:The whole Welsh team is very overrated. Yes, they won a grand slam. But by extremelly narrow margins. Not much seperates Wales/England/Ireland at the moment but Wales are touted constantly as being a great team. Their recent record against the SH opposition suggests othewise.

That's what I've been saying for a while, A bounce of a ball and some favorable refereeing decisions then they wouldn't have got anywhere near a Grand Slam, but hey they did, but since then they have been awful.

The honeymoon period is over for this group of players, at the moment I think they're missing Shane Williams as he offered something different that the opposing team couldn't anticipate, North and Cuthbert are two similar players and are easy to defend against.

A bad performance and HERSH and co come screaming from the woodwork beating their chests, overrated they may be but 6N grand slam current champs they definately are!!!

Wales are clearly the most talented team in the NH by a mile missing their coach to the lions and from my POV most of the first team knowing their touring and have little to prove, I just hope Gatland doesnt do a woodward and make promises to players he'll regret afterwood!!!

Whats the good in being the most talented when they bottle it time and time again when they cross the whitewash.

Lets get this straight as a Brit I wanted Wales to beat the Argies but going on previous performances it wasn't too hard to predict a Argentinian win.

While I never thought we were streets ahead of our Lions team-mates from England and Ireland, the fans didn't half whinge that Wales were cheats, etc during the 6 Nations. An Irish fan calling us overrated? Wow. Guess we'll have to see how they go in the rest of their matches. England as it stands look likely to pick up 3 losses, but I do expect them to turn over Australia again. Ireland are playing Argentina and who else?

Surely Tim Visser has now justified a starting spot on the left wing for the Lions. Not many players score two tries on their first match against NZ and he's the only player to manage that feat in 4 years.

So one spot inked in.

I'd be sure to have Cian Healy in my starting line up too, and 1/2p at fullback.

Can't argue with those 3 selections awofp

I take it the other 12 positions are English?

correct me if im wrong but werent one of vissers try an interception and the other from a fantastic turnover from laidlaw?

Lets get one thing straight HERSH, I clearly stated that Wales record over argy, and the first game in the AI record meant that Wales weren't guarentee'd a win, and that players selected were yet to show any form this season and may struggle, my suggestions were Wales by 3-5 or Argy by 3-5, as it happens I was out by a bit, but unlike you who just states Wales will lose every game by 15 plus I firmly beleive your suggestions are pretty much worthless.

And when exactly do Wales 'bottle it' at Twickers? Against favourites Ireland in the dying minutes, or in the GS game against France. 3 crunch tournament games opposed to a freindy in November?

You like a lot of Welsh players at the minute, youve just stopped trying

HERSH wrote:Can't argue with those 3 selections awofp

I take it the other 12 positions are English?

Well they were the only Lions consistuent team to win, so surely a large number of players for consideration. I think Ashton on the other wing and Tuilagi at 12 with Roberts at 13 would look like an imposing midfield for the relatively light-weight Aussies. Obviously the 9's are English, just depends on which of them you want to start and which to come off the bench.

Call me a traditionalist, but I'd still look at Wilkinson at 10. I just don't see a class 10 holding up his hand amongst the starters at the moment. Maybe Farrell on the bench to get some experience under the master?

Ye Gav, oh and don't forget 2 missed tackles and being caught out of position for a try.

Visser is very usefull, but a complete player he is not, and his weaknesses are plain for all to see at present. Similar to Brown, Hartley, Phillips and Hook.

im not saying visser shouldnt tour. Just that I dont thin because he scored two run in tries againt NZ he should tour.

TBH if any potential lions showed up today it was in the pack, the scottish props got through a hell of alot of work and held up the scrum well. TBH i was impressed by the entire scottish pack today, they had the measure of their counterparts

But Twickers and Dublin was last season as was the Grand Slam it's time to move on, Wales targeted a series win in Aus and failed miserably.

So far they have lost at home to a team ranked two places lower than them in the IRB rankings and their coach has deserted them, and the biggest worry of all is that a number of players are playing very poorly for their Regions too.

I expect Wales to bounce back against Samoa on Friday but at what cost?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ye Gav, oh and don't forget 2 missed tackles and being caught out of position for a try.

Visser is very usefull, but a complete player he is not, and his weaknesses are plain for all to see at present. Similar to Brown, Hartley, Phillips and Hook.

Mike Brown or Kelly Brown? or Tom Brown?

HERSH wrote:...and the biggest worry of all is that a number of players are playing very poorly for their Regions too.

Yes, one of whom is supposed to be the captain (when he's on the field)

HERSH wrote:I expect Wales to bounce back against Samoa on Friday but at what cost?

well you have more belief than me HERSH, if we play like that we will be beaten and beaten well again

At the moment Warburton doesn't deserve to go on tour at all let alone as Captain.

HERSH wrote:But Twickers and Dublin was last season as was the Grand Slam it's time to move on, Wales targeted a series win in Aus and failed miserably.

So far they have lost at home to a team ranked two places lower than them in the IRB rankings and their coach has deserted them, and the biggest worry of all is that a number of players are playing very poorly for their Regions too.

I expect Wales to bounce back against Samoa on Friday but at what cost?

Your right HERSH we do need to move on. 'Failed miserably' i wouldnt say that, we lost a close match which we had chances to win and didnt take.

We lost to a team who ran all of the big 3 close in competition weeks ago and who played a tactically sound game against us and we were well beaten.

Our coach is with the lions however I do think that for some reason unless a coach has an antipodean accent we dont seem to listen to them.

I dont see the exodus as a poor thing. IMO it gives other welsh players a chance to play regular rugby. However others will disagree with me here.

I think we will need to bounce back and if we have any ambition will need to win well. However it will be a tough game and we should not underestimate Samoa who will be looking for payback after narrowly losing to us after being shafted by the RWC schedule.

Out of curiosity who have Eng got next week hershy?

Gavin,

What chances did we have, other than the overlap that McCusker butchered I cant remeber us creating any clear cut chances.

bedford i was referring to the aussie series

Jonathan Davies is showing his value when he is not present.

England next play SA, then Aus, then NZ, I think. Not the best fixture list.

DOH,

Apologies but I have blanked most of yesterday out so was doubting myself

RogerLewis wrote:Jonathan Davies is showing his value when he is not present.

Likewise Lydiate

tramp

Mike Brown.

HERSH

Spin it all you like we ARE current 6N champs, were the home nations one shining light at the world cup and are the most talented NH team.

And yes wales lost a freindly in a fixture their renowned for losing, against a team they have a poor record against and to a team who are 2 places below them in the world ranking. But then come 6N time I am sure the champs will be favouritee once again for a 4th GS in 8 years.

But you are roight regarding Warbs, he shouldn't be making the Blues squad ahead of navidi, let alone the wales sqyad ahead of tips or the lions squad ahead of rennie!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Spin it all you like we ARE current 6N champs, were the home nations one shining light at the world cup and are the most talented NH team.

Erm, you missed France thrashing Australia yesterday and making the world cup final?

AWOP

You mean in the freindly at home? Or in a head to head in a 6N decider to put right the Rolland show at the WC?

PS why are you now avoiding the offside thread, don't give up so easily

France are too inconsistent and seem hellbent on employing coaches and management designed to make a usually strong and deep squad of players play confused and below themselves. Ive wondered if Lievremont was appointed just to keep the 6N competitive for a few years.

"Spin it all you like we ARE current 6N champs, were the home nations one shining light at the world cup and are the most talented NH team."


By shining light do you mean finishing 2nd in your group?

Fair enough you beat Ireland in the 1/4 finals then lost to France in the Semi's.

Oh and you lost to Aus in the 3rd place play off.

You're right as an Englishman I was sooooo proud of Wales for Playing 7 games winning 4 and losing 3.

HERSH wrote:"Spin it all you like we ARE current 6N champs, were the home nations one shining light at the world cup and are the most talented NH team."


By shining light do you mean finishing 2nd in your group?

Fair enough you beat Ireland in the 1/4 finals then lost to France in the Semi's.

Oh and you lost to Aus in the 3rd place play off.

Your right as an Englishman I was sooooo proud of Wales for Playing 7 games winning 4 and losing 3.

"You're, not your".

Thank you buddy

Doe they give out medals and awards for being the most talented team these days?

Wales a shining light at the world cup? You must be kidding me. They lost to the three best teams they faced.....

Yes Wales are six nations champions.
Yes Wales beat England in their last two meetings.
Yes Wales are better than England.
Good achievement for such a small place.

However on the global stage we suck. HERSH is right. Grandslam was last season, we need to move forward and not dwell in the past (2003 etc etc).

Reading through this thread it's a shame that this board is becoming more like the bad old days on 606.

Pathetic, moronic posts by small minds who put partisan prejudice before rugby discussion. We all know that Wales were awful, that Ireland and Scotland were good in patches and that England are yet to face a test. So how can player X be inked into the Lions tour 8 months from now? What has happened to the quality posters ?

Sorry hersh, I apologise, where were the English at the semi final stage or the third place play off? oh yes, HOME

I have freinds who live in NZ and after the first week I received a text simply put 'thank god for England, takes the pressure off the hosts' It's nice you have someone to be proud of, it certainly wasn't your players!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:AWOP

You mean in the freindly at home? Or in a head to head in a 6N decider to put right the Rolland show at the WC?

PS why are you now avoiding the offside thread, don't give up so easily

No I mean, BEAT Australia; y'know the thing Wales have been trying to do at home, away, in the RWC, on a three match tour, ... and just can't seem to manage?

I'm not sure how you think Wales are better than France because you made the 1/2 final and lost the playoff, when France WON the semi against you and then beat Australia handsomely.

Personally I always think the merits should be based on a teams performance against the top 3 sides.

France had a dire SixNations, but destroyed Australia last night and nearly won the world cup.

I would take France's situation over a grandslam any day.

Simple AWOP, head to head. Wales beat France last time out, until next time out we are better. Same as England, Ireland... well you get my drift.

Why do these threads turn into how great Wales are compared to the rest of the NH?

When England were the worlds number 1 team and world champions did we boast like this?

If we did then I'm truly sorry, but in a way at least it was justified as we were in the No1 spot not 6th in the IRB rankings.

As for England poor performance in NZ, it was a big ask to make three finals in a row but at least the boys had a good time.

England were unlucky in that semi final loss in 2011.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Simple AWOP, head to head. Wales beat France last time out, until next time out we are better. Same as England, Ireland... well you get my drift.

Ah! Head to head. You must mean, as scientifically presented by the IRB rankings...

1(1) NZL NEW ZEALAND 92.91
2(2) AUS AUSTRALIA 86.37
3(3) RSA SOUTH AFRICA 84.69
4(4) ENG ENGLAND 83.09
5(5) FRA FRANCE 83.03
6(6) WAL WALES 82.26

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lets get one thing straight HERSH, I clearly stated that Wales record over argy, and the first game in the AI record meant that Wales weren't guarentee'd a win, and that players selected were yet to show any form this season and may struggle, my suggestions were Wales by 3-5 or Argy by 3-5, as it happens I was out by a bit, but unlike you who just states Wales will lose every game by 15 plus I firmly beleive your suggestions are pretty much worthless.

And when exactly do Wales 'bottle it' at Twickers? Against favourites Ireland in the dying minutes, or in the GS game against France. 3 crunch tournament games opposed to a freindy in November?

You like a lot of Welsh players at the minute, youve just stopped trying

Kind of leaving your options open there no? What you're saying is if Wales had won by same amount that Argentina won then you would still have only been out by a bit. Covering all bases I see!

thebluesmancometh wrote:tramp

Mike Brown.

HERSH

Spin it all you like we ARE current 6N champs, were the home nations one shining light at the world cup and are the most talented NH team.

And yes wales lost a freindly in a fixture their renowned for losing, against a team they have a poor record against and to a team who are 2 places below them in the world ranking. But then come 6N time I am sure the champs will be favouritee once again for a 4th GS in 8 years.

But you are roight regarding Warbs, he shouldn't be making the Blues squad ahead of navidi, let alone the wales sqyad ahead of tips or the lions squad ahead of rennie!!!

Look don't get me worng, I think Wales are a good team and I have not changed my opinion after your defeat to Argentina. Part of my reasoning for this is because I know Argentina are a good side too. I know this from many years of experience of Ireland being drawn in the same group as them in the WC and I know not to ever take them lightly. But saying Wales were the only home nations shining light at the WC? Let's be absolutely fair, and I am not suggesting for one minute that Wales didn't deserve to be in the Semi's or that they didn't play well, but the only team of note that Wales beat in the WC was Ireland.

Wales don't do SH teams

What relevance do England have in this? Plenty of English would be happy to admit Wales are better and have been recently. The differance is in the margins. When Wales won the GS it was by very narrow margins over AVERAGE teams like Ireland and England. Hardly walloping them off the park. Yet in the aftermath it was all about how this new generation were now pushing the SH teams as if the they had reached some sort of differnt heights. Nonsense! They arent much better than Ireland and England, probably worse than France at the moment and could play the SH teams week in week out and not beat them.

RogerLewis wrote:England were unlucky in that semi final loss in 2011.

I see the English lads weren't the only ones having a good time

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Call me a traditionalist, but I'd still look at Wilkinson at 10. I just don't see a class 10 holding up his hand amongst the starters at the moment. Maybe Farrell on the bench to get some experience under the master?

And Johnston as a lock? How about Will carling?

Wilkinson is the day before yesterdays man. I agree there are no outstanding candidates but there are half a dozen better than him at least.

[quote="HERSH"]Why do these threads turn into how great Wales are compared to the rest of the NH?

Because you are obsessed with us and bring us into every thread.

scientifically presented OMG

Irish

My point was I saw Wales or Argentina winning by within a score, when predicting I always tend to play out 2 scenarios, best and worst case kind thing. I admitted I was wrong but unlike many other poster didn't say what would definately happen, especially as they claim it will definately happen every game!!

but the only team of note that Wales beat in the WC was Ireland. But when you get to the latter stages you have to play the best, sometimes it happens for you, sometimes you get Rolland. Getting there is pretty tough though, ask an Irishman!!

RogerLewis wrote:Personally I always think the merits should be based on a teams performance against the top 3 sides.

.

so pack the team with Scots tehn? after all who else has returned from a SH tour unbeaten?