Beating Fiji Makes us Awesome.....Right?

Of course it doesn't.

Jeez I am hating some of the crowing by a selection of my countrymen. Until we have played one of the 4Ns teams we should just shut up.

Pride, as they say, comes before a fall.

LondonTiger wrote:Of course it doesn't.

Jeez I am hating some of the crowing by a selection of my countrymen. Until we have played one of the 4Ns teams we should just shut up.

Pride, as they say, comes before a fall.

Yup - I cant imagine that we would have played as badly as the welsh but we would have been lucky to beat the argies 1st up.

LondonTiger wrote:Of course it doesn't.

Jeez I am hating some of the crowing by a selection of my countrymen. Until we have played one of the 4Ns teams we should just shut up.

Pride, as they say, comes before a fall.

Well said LT

Clever tour management, start with an easy win and get the dullard supporters hyped up and give the players a blow out to get the combinations working. Agreed that managing complacency becomes an issue.

Consistency is the sign of quality, until we see England handing out regular beatings we aren't awesome. Good start to the AIs though.

You can't read mate. What crowing. Nobody has crowed on here about England's win over Fiji. Stop being so self flagulating and lighten up a bit. At least we aren't Welsh supporters and crying at the moment.

Of course it doesn't Tiger.

But it makes a nice change to start the AI against a team we knew we could beat and beat well.

That hasn't always been the case over the last few years.

I have a good feeling that we might win 2 of are next 3, I also think we'll beat the All blacks this year.

It was quite stilted to start with. Even a bit worrying. However more positives than negatives - sharples, Goode, tom Youngs and Launchbury nice performances - no injuries - Cole, Manu and Robshaw uninjured - I'm a happy chap!

Well HERSH England beat NZ once every decade on average, and are overdue so maybe it's their year.

Beating Fiji was all about gettinhjg the players on song working some moves. Getting the combinations playing together.

Yes England won, but lets remember that England came into this game like FIJI. Cold, not playee together since the suume

You can only beat what's in front of you and England did that today. Not only that, the margin of victory was far greater than the predictions being given pre-match by pundits. 1/1.

Trying out the combinations well that worked sometimes,at least they improved
as the game went on.A win is win dreadful start,missed tackles,spilled balls,poor option taking improved as it went on.Most of the points came because Fiji did`nt have a scrum,there defence of the maul poor.They hardly play together at all whats Englands excuse.?
You can only beat whats in front of you true,Australia have just been destroyed by France.The Boks ground out a narrow win versus Ireland,tomorrow we will know the full SP after Scotland face the All Blacks.
Monday IRB ratings will read probably 1 NZ,2 SA,3,AUS,4 France.

emack2 wrote:Trying out the combinations well that worked sometimes,at least they improved
as the game went on.A win is win dreadful start,missed tackles,spilled balls,poor option taking improved as it went on.Most of the points came because Fiji did`nt have a scrum,there defence of the maul poor.They hardly play together at all whats Englands excuse.?
You can only beat whats in front of you true,Australia have just been destroyed by France.The Boks ground out a narrow win versus Ireland,tomorrow we will know the full SP after Scotland face the All Blacks.
Monday IRB ratings will read probably 1 NZ,2 SA,3,AUS,4 France.

What's England's excuse for what? Scoring seven tries? Winning by 42 points?

england can never win can they- jeas

England were patently rusty there combinations were poor early on and improved as it went on.Scored 7 tries?it should have been 14 or 15 they butchered so many chances.Next week they play Australia,who were poor today
don`t underate Australia`s pack it isn`t that bad.I`m hoping England win there next two matches too,then the All Blacks.Put seven tries on them and i`ll be really impressed

I am quite confident v Aus,

but I am not over confident

England showed promise and not a lot more.
There were butchered tries a-plenty.
However the squad is beginning to show some depth. As far as I can see it's only Cole who is irreplaceable with a like-for-like substitute. Maybe Robshaw.

That fills me with greater confidence than I've had for ten years.
But let's wait for two more weeks before jumping to any rash conclusions.

France must be delirious at the moment. That looks like the benchmark NH team.

I thought England were great today. Typicaly solid without being spectacular. They got to hit out and try things. They got to a point where they couldnt maintain the accuracy required for the opportunities they had with many spilled balls- 60 would have been more reflective had things clicked better at times.

But as a first match you'd have to be happy with that as a start. Can't see them being complacent and they sure look in a better pos than Oz. Take the result, the experience of having a good workout, a chance to try combinations into the next week and go with it I reckon.

Good start, and behind France the next best (prior to the AB match of course).

Wow its been nothing but abuse for England we were a team without croft, lawes, Hartley, Ashton, corbs, foden...all the newbs played so well that a lot of those names are going to struggle to get back in....we weren't perfect but we won by flipping miles....however almost everyone wants to jump down there throats...jeesus you can't win being an England manager can you!!!!

sirchris england dont win even when they do..

its a special thing reseved only for english- didnt you know?

I watched the highlights this morning and i thought that England played poorly for the first 15-20mins but that was down to lack of time together.

When they started to gel, they looked a very good team. They showed that they were no longer a team in transition but a team playing good rugby and building strength in depth. This will suit England well over the next 5-6 years. Well done to them

England did well. Struggled early on in, caused in part by Joubert's myopia.

The reason for this article was the baiting that certain posters were giving out on Welsh and Irish match threads. Some of the comments were plain stupidity and reflected badly on the majority of English posters.

Big week next week. England will be favourites - but australia will be hurting so we should expect more fight from them than we did last night.

eirebilly wrote:I watched the highlights this morning and i thought that England played poorly for the first 15-20mins but that was down to lack of time together.

When they started to gel, they looked a very good team. They showed that they were no longer a team in transition but a team playing good rugby and building strength in depth. This will suit England well over the next 5-6 years. Well done to them

A bit early for that billy but appreciated. We do seem to have something of a settled team with a good few guys on the fringes that have some experience with the team. As long as new players don't keep getting injured like they usually do we should progress. Do you think we could boycott the Lions this year? It always seems to screw up sides when they're doing well, injuring key players and the like.

I think that England have come on in leaps and bounds under Lancastor to be honest Thurnor. He has certainly built up a good moral in the team and has been busy building strength in depth.

I see something very good in the making there, i wish Ireland had that...

emack2 wrote:England were patently rusty there combinations were poor early on and improved as it went on.Scored 7 tries?it should have been 14 or 15 they butchered so many chances.Next week they play Australia,who were poor today
don`t underate Australia`s pack it isn`t that bad.I`m hoping England win there next two matches too,then the All Blacks.Put seven tries on them and i`ll be really impressed

Put seven tries on New Zealand and you'll only be really impressed? If England managed to do that, the rest of us should just go to bed and wake up after RWC 2015.

The only thing Ive seen thats really interesting was the use of Alex Goode to solve Englands midfield problem in attack.
Prior to this Lancasters teams have really lacked a secondplaymaker, because ( with strong justification) hes been unwilling to weaken the defensive strength of midfield and wanted centers who can commit defenders.
This is the first time Ive seen some real invention in the backs play, an area England under Farrel/Lancatser have been very poor in.

This could be the missing element that brings england up from OK to decent.

These were makeshift teams for both sides, and the opposition was poor. Im not reading too much into the execution or scoreline, but what I saw was a new plan in attack from england based around the fullback using his football skills in midfield....and sloppy execution aside it worked, albeit against a disorganised rabble.
Going forwad this is something for England to work with to get guys like Ashton and Sharples the try scoring chances that have been missing in the previous 12 months.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The only thing Ive seen thats really interesting was the use of Alex Goode to solve Englands midfield problem in attack.
Prior to this Lancasters teams have really lacked a secondplaymaker, because ( with strong justification) hes been unwilling to weaken the defensive strength of midfield and wanted centers who can commit defenders.
This is the first time Ive seen some real invention in the backs play, an area England under Farrel/Lancatser have been very poor in.

This could be the missing element that brings england up from OK to decent.

These were makeshift teams for both sides, and the opposition was poor. Im not reading too much into the execution or scoreline, but what I saw was a new plan in attack from england based around the fullback using his football skills in midfield....and sloppy execution aside it worked, albeit against a disorganised rabble.
Going forwad this is something for England to work with to get guys like Ashton and Sharples the try scoring chances that have been missing in the previous 12 months.

It was good use of the players. Goode did show up at 12 in attack a lot so it has to be deliberate. Problem is it relies on one player too much again. Would it work with Brown or Foden at 15? It does show that maybe getting a 12 that distributes is a good thing. Is Noon still playing?

Billy Twelvetrees here we come

Does noone think that Fiji actually came out and played well for the first 15-20 mins....then England took control.

Ashton should not automatically come back in and Launchbury must start...

I think Fiji came out strong and the yellow knocked us a fair bit. Following that the complete cluster **** at the scrum with Goode at scrum half probably didn't help.

Fiji were knackered very quickly and were pretty shocking outside of the first quarter.

The IRB points difference between ENG and FIJI is the biggest difference in the AI series. Aside from that ENG is the richest and FIJI the poorest. On rankings alone ENG should statistically have won by the scoreline they did, in fact they were a little shy of it given they were at home. We all know Fiji have been struggling recently and frankly anything positive written about ENG's performance other than "adequate" and any discussion of the result other than "irrelevant" is giving it too much lip service.

The real talking point is the wealth of rugby playing quality produced in Fiji and the rank unfairness in their ability to turn out and represent their country. The IRB should get off their pampered arses and do something about it.

How do you work out a projected score line based on the rankings? Statistically?

HammerofThunor wrote:How do you work out a projected score line based on the rankings? Statistically?

Simple equation, Hammer.

IRB ranking - 2.35/no. of tries x kicks at goal
--------------------------------------------------------
No of AWOP words X no of NH teams losing at any point


QED. Thought everyone knew that.

Pot Hale wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:How do you work out a projected score line based on the rankings? Statistically?

Simple equation, Hammer.

IRB ranking - 2.35/no. of tries x kicks at goal
--------------------------------------------------------
No of AWOP words X no of NH teams losing at any point


QED. Thought everyone knew that.

Cheers. Can't believe I didn't know that.

Pot Hale wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:How do you work out a projected score line based on the rankings? Statistically?

Simple equation, Hammer.

IRB ranking - 2.35/no. of tries x kicks at goal
--------------------------------------------------------
No of AWOP words X no of NH teams losing at any point


QED. Thought everyone knew that.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The only thing Ive seen thats really interesting was the use of Alex Goode to solve Englands midfield problem in attack.
Prior to this Lancasters teams have really lacked a secondplaymaker, because ( with strong justification) hes been unwilling to weaken the defensive strength of midfield and wanted centers who can commit defenders.
This is the first time Ive seen some real invention in the backs play, an area England under Farrel/Lancatser have been very poor in.

This could be the missing element that brings england up from OK to decent.

These were makeshift teams for both sides, and the opposition was poor. Im not reading too much into the execution or scoreline, but what I saw was a new plan in attack from england based around the fullback using his football skills in midfield....and sloppy execution aside it worked, albeit against a disorganised rabble.
Going forwad this is something for England to work with to get guys like Ashton and Sharples the try scoring chances that have been missing in the previous 12 months.

It was good use of the players. Goode did show up at 12 in attack a lot so it has to be deliberate. Problem is it relies on one player too much again. Would it work with Brown or Foden at 15? It does show that maybe getting a 12 that distributes is a good thing. Is Noon still playing?

Billy Twelvetrees here we come

Good question about the use of the fullback as distributor. I can see Foden fitting into that role easily because of his background as a scrum-half. Brown still makes me nervous, despite his having a good year. It was certainly good to see a different game plan from England.

But I have to agree with the majority, this was the first match of the AIs for England and Fiji is obviously not at the level of the next three opponents. I didn't see the France-Aus match, but the scoreline was huge. I hope no one get overconfident about facing the Wallabies as they can pull victories out of the air sometimes. On the other hand, they have seemed on the borderline all season.

Hersh so Wales hoping they beat the All Blacks is hilarious to you, as all you have done is laugh at Wales yesterday,
but England beating them is realistic?
I see England and Wales as very similar at the mo.

Anyways to the OP i agree Tiger, seen some of the dullards big it up and the dumb media "the SUN inparticular " who usual follow football are exploding in there pants over the win.

HERSH wrote:Of course it doesn't Tiger.

But it makes a nice change to start the AI against a team we knew we could beat and beat well.

That hasn't always been the case over the last few years.

I have a good feeling that we might win 2 of are next 3, I also think we'll beat the All blacks this year.

dream on

To my mind, Goode isn't go anywhere from the fullback position until injury (either in his position or somewhere else in the backs) forces a selection change. Brown can be used anywhere in the back three from the bench without loss of structure to the team during play. I'd imagine Lancaster will be seeing his back three as Foden - Goode - Ashton for the future. However, it seems that Goode only started because of the loss of Jonathan Joseph to injury, which intially denied England a second playmaker in the backs alongside Flood! I suspect when JJ is back, he'll start at outside centre again with Manu coming back to inside centre. I also think Ashton will start, with Sharples on the other wing. Barritt & Monye will drop to the bench.

i can only assume lancaster will start with a very similar team against OZ.
the realistic change I can see would be ashton for sharples or monye.

anotherworldofpain wrote:
The real talking point is the wealth of rugby playing quality produced in Fiji and the rank unfairness in their ability to turn out and represent their country. The IRB should get off their pampered arses and do something about it.

I thought they poached all their players from NZ anyway, or is that just Samoa Tonga and err England?

There are more NZers playing for Samoa than Fiji, correct.

TJ wrote:

HERSH wrote:Of course it doesn't Tiger.

But it makes a nice change to start the AI against a team we knew we could beat and beat well.

That hasn't always been the case over the last few years.

I have a good feeling that we might win 2 of are next 3, I also think we'll beat the All blacks this year.

dream on

Its not like its never happened before, true England would have to be at the top of their game and NZ to be average like they were today, but it could happen

anotherworldofpain wrote:There are more NZers playing for Samoa than Fiji, correct.

Sorry I forgot Aus too

Maybe if Wales had played Samoa first up, instead of Argentina. they might be in a better position, for next week. Not so many injuries.

Did'nt Alun wyn jones say one day last week that he wants Wales to use the pain of losing to Australia as motivation for the Ais.

No offence to Alun Wyn Jones, but he did feel some pain yesterday. And now looks like he will play no further part in the tournament.

Oz are actually looking worse than I thought, however i understand they will have some returnies against us.......my prediction was for an oz win, infact i doubt we'll win any of the next 3 though if we are to then it will have to come against oz this weekend.
Our pack just dosn't look nasty enough for me.

Guys, I think we can beat Aus, though it will be very close, and if we do, then SA but never mock another country on a loss (except maybe if it was against us). It is poor form, setting ourselves up for a fall and let the Welsh fans worry about their team. Ours is not perfect so let's worry about ours, eh?

majesticimperialman wrote:Maybe if Wales had played Samoa first up, instead of Argentina. they might be in a better position, for next week. Not so many injuries.

Did'nt Alun wyn jones say one day last week that he wants Wales to use the pain of losing to Australia as motivation for the Ais.

No offence to Alun Wyn Jones, but he did feel some pain yesterday. And now looks like he will play no further part in the tournament.

I doubt it madge. I think Samoa would've won too. The biggest advantage that Wales have against Samoa is the turf at the MS. Wales' set piece is too good for Samoa, but the Samoan backs would smoke them on a hard pitch, based on the performance yesterday.

Well said CJ.

I personally won't bank on any more wins, Oz will be out to make amends and SA just seem to have the hoodoo over us.

As to the "fans" crowing over the win, every countries village has it's idiots. You just have to learn to ignore them.