Is Offside called "Good Line Speed" now?

First topic message reminder :

Take a look for example, at the first Scottish try today. If you have the game recorded, freeze the picture as Piri Weepu is clearing the ball from the ruck. There are 4 Scottish defenders who have never retired to on-side positions. Not even close. It's just blatant. Of course Dan Carter should never have thrown the intercept pass, but he could be forgiven for not seeing the Scottish interceptor "approaching"...he didn't so much approach as stand stationary in the All Black back line from the preceeding ruck. What was Chris Cuisiter's comment from the sideline? "Great Line Speed, leading to an intercept try."

On the subject of referees selective vision, I also have to comment that on 26 minutes Victor Vito throws an inside pass to a supporting All Black, and it is BLATANTLY slapped down and forward by a Scotts defender. Yellow Card? No, bizarrely it was a lineout. 36 minutes gone, and it happens again on the other wing...this time "advantage knock on". Now who recalls a yellow card for Ireland for a vastly less obvious attempt a few months ago? Where's the consistency? Both the linesman and referee were both staring straight at it. What's going on? I saw it from the opposite side of the ground half way up the stands...Now in a game where you expect one side to put 50 points on this is just an irrelevance but in a closer game these simple obvious but missed calls become important. Must do better!

Now on another note, Scotland's ruck defence consistent of 45 minutes of diving off their feet trying to grab at the ball on the ground. The match officials couldn't spot this either, but when NZ finally took it into their own hands and Thompson rucked a prone Scotsman out of the way, the linesman apparently had lazer vision and a yellow card was issued. It's simple guys, penalise the illegal play first and then this stuff doesn't need to happen.

This whole issue of cynical negative cheating in defense kills the game as a spectacle. I didn't want to mention it because they're hurting enough already, but Wales again in yesteday's game against Argentina spent 40 minutes half a meter off side as a starting point. Why? why? why can't the referees spot this and do something about it?

Stop moving the point bluesman, you've already said that doing so is an admission that you've lost. Now you've moved the point on four times, already...

All I said was that Visser was offside, and so blatantly that at least one of the three match officials should have spotted it.

That's all I said. You seem to have had a bizarre reaction to a simple uncontroversial point?

But Visser wasnt effecting play when offside and retreating as you said ( I havnt seen it in replay)

If it has been missed then it has, for a thousand reasons refs make mistakes like players do ( but far less of them)

Also NZ are the kings of the fake retreat then rejoin play, so why whinge about something your team does regularly!!!

But he was still offside when he participated in the try. So he should have been penalised as soon as he took the pass.

Making the excuse "the ref missed it" is missing the original point, that between THREE of them, there is no way they should have missed it.

You can't justify actions by transferrence. The law is the law and should be applied consistently.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Come now Heaf, it's the AIs and NZ are #1 and RWC champions, of course 99% of people think they are "cheats", not to mention that cheating cheat of a cheater, Richie McCheat, right? And then there's that cheating Haka cheat and the cheating way that NZ always seem to score more points than their opponents.

Ah but do people think they are cheats because they're No.1 or are they No.1 because they're the best cheats

But seriously I'm not saying they aren't the best team or that they are cheats - but that doesn't mean they don't get away with more for whatever reason ... be honest Richie is very accident prone with the amount of time he accidentally falls on the wrong side of the breakdown ...

The number of times he's dragged to the wrong side by cheating opposition cheats cheatingly trying to cheat a penalty out the ref did you mean Heaf ?

AWOP

Firstly if he was offside it was for the moment the ball is played from the ruck, after that moment it is open play and the offside line has gone. Also after the interception when Scotland are in posession he is automatically back onside as it's open play again. So no he shouldn't be pinged for receiving the ball, it should be at the moment the ball has left the ruck and if he is interfeering, otherwise he is back onside immediately.

Also there isn't 3 officials involved, the man on the opposing side of the pitch doesn't have any input beyond the ref (rule of thumb) so there is only 2 officials input in the offside decision.

Like I said I havn't seen a replay but either way he should be pinged straight away or not at all, and there is the argument that being 'offside' is contentious anyway. Being late to retreat (within reason) and being in an obstructive position (again within reason) aren't necesarily offences.

anotherworldofpain wrote:The number of times he's dragged to the wrong side by cheating opposition cheats cheatingly trying to cheat a penalty out the ref did you mean Heaf ?

well that could be it I suppose

thebluesmancometh wrote:AWOP

Firstly if he was offside it was for the moment the ball is played from the ruck, after that moment it is open play and the offside line has gone. Also after the interception when Scotland are in posession he is automatically back onside as it's open play again. So no he shouldn't be pinged for receiving the ball, it should be at the moment the ball has left the ruck and if he is interfeering, otherwise he is back onside immediately.

Also there isn't 3 officials involved, the man on the opposing side of the pitch doesn't have any input beyond the ref (rule of thumb) so there is only 2 officials input in the offside decision.

Like I said I havn't seen a replay but either way he should be pinged straight away or not at all, and there is the argument that being 'offside' is contentious anyway. Being late to retreat (within reason) and being in an obstructive position (again within reason) aren't necesarily offences.

Yes, as I said; he was offside at that point (as were three others). I could let it go if they had no bearing on play and then recovered for the next ruck. But in this case the guy took a pass and scored a try. All three officials are capable of calling the offside line, and none of them did. I can understand the ref looking at other stuff, but just what are the other two doing? surely they should be aligning themselves on the offside line so it should be pretty easy to spot. My opinion is they were ball watching and dazzled starstruck by the ABs and their minds weren't on the job...

Or the players offside weren't offside at all, or they werenbt interfering with play while retreating, or there was 50 yards and 20 players between one linesmans view and the offside player, or they actually got it wrong.

Either way there are too many reasons for an incorrect call, from objective instructions, imaginary lines and the way the kiwis cheat/play at the same game also, faking the retreat until something happens then bang everyones onside, poor refereeing maybe but definately not inconsistent and thats all we can ask!!

STop trying to justify incorrect calls. We need to strive for perfection, not strive for excuses for mediocrity.

If NZ said "Oh, we'll drop passes, lack penetration, turn over the ball and loose, it's just too hard to get it right" would they be where they are now? No. They are a benchmark because they don't accept failure, ever.

Even a 50 point drubbing will be greeted with a list of "could do better" points from the media and fans. And that's what drives you on! not making excuses.

Who's making excuses? And to say the kiwis are perfect is poopy, the reffing team on their worst day makes less mistakes than the all blacks or any other team does on their best!!

I didn't say they were perfect, I said they strive for perfection.

You are making excuses. You. You. You. See this "there are too many reasons for an incorrect call," <--- that's an excuse for poor refereeing. Stop it.

It's not poor refereeing though, it's too much non quantitative judgement calls, the IRB regulations are far from clear on any let alone all areas of the game, thats why we have so much inconsistency, you want perfection it has to start at the IRB!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:It's not poor refereeing though, it's too much non quantitative judgement calls, the IRB regulations are far from clear on any let alone all areas of the game, thats why we have so much inconsistency, you want perfection it has to start at the IRB!!!

it's not regulations, it's the out and out laws. It's not a matter of interpretation. They were off-side and the ref didn't call it.

Now you are just deflecting. It's not the IRBs fault when a debutant referee messes up, it's the ref who is at fault. People need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions, however untrendy that is these days in the blame-culture world.

No chance does a ref give an offside for the all blacks for play they are renowned for exploiting!!

All blacks are 'lazy runners' kings, just take this one on the chin, like the other 2 tries Scotland muscled over you for!!

PS Wales are still going to beat you!

Alright Bluesman, I'm off for the evening. But we'll agree to disagree.

I think referees should be charged with applying the laws consistently, and you seem to think that the ABs are such cheating cheaters that they deserve the referees to allow the opposition to be offside constantly.

One of us is being resonable, the other of us, a little bit one eyed. G'night!