Buildup: Scotland vs South Africa

by 123456789 Sun 11 Nov 2012, 7:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Based on Today.s performance who would you pick to play South Africa.
I'd go for:
15. Hogg
14. Evans
13. Dunbar
12. scott
11. Visser
10. Jackson
9. Blair
8. Denton
7. Rennie (Barclay if he's not fit)
6. Brown
5. Hamilton
4. Gray
3. Murray
2. Ford
1. Grant

by **Biltong** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 8:11 am

for the "purists" it is gonna be a cracker.

by Imperialbigdave Thu 15 Nov 2012, 10:16 am

nganboy wrote:
Imperialbigdave wrote:Acid tests always the 6N. I agree he shouldve gone after the most recent one, but he didnt, and the teams doing ok just now, so im happy to wait till the spring and see.

Does everyone agree with this?
Because I can't understand why competing against the teams ranked 4-7 is more of an acid test than playing teams 1 and 3. Surely you would want to judge yourself against the top teams.

Would many of you Scots fans take 6Ns grand slam over an AI clean sweep?

Much in the same way the Bledisloe means so much to New Zealand even when Aus are woefully short on form. The 6N teams are our rivals. a 6N match is far more meaningfull to us than a match against the southern hemisphere teams. Dont get me wrong, thats not to devalue you guys, but autumn matches just dont mean as much.

If I was given the choice of seeing Scotland win the grandslam and die the following day, or watch a clean sweep of the AI's and live for however longer, Id choose the grand slam. every time.

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 10:22 am

Imperialbigdave wrote:

If I was given the choice of seeing Scotland win the grandslam and die the following day, or watch a clean sweep of the AI's and live for however longer, Id choose the grand slam. every time.

Wow - you make my arm cutting off look very uncommitted to the cause now!

by **Biltong** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 10:25 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Imperialbigdave wrote:

If I was given the choice of seeing Scotland win the grandslam and die the following day, or watch a clean sweep of the AI's and live for however longer, Id choose the grand slam. every time.

Wow - you make my arm cutting off look very uncommitted to the cause now!

Yeah RDW, show some commitment man, I would be ashamed of myself if I were you. Where's your passion? Laugh

by tigertattie Thu 15 Nov 2012, 10:50 am

reminds me of the welsh dude who lopped off his left nut after wales won the grandslam

Legend or silly boy?

by **Biltong** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 10:52 am

tigertattie wrote:reminds me of the welsh dude who lopped off his left nut after wales won the grandslam

Legend or silly boy?

He was either, inebrehated (forgive the spelling), on glue, or simply not very bright.

You can't fault his passion for his team though.

I suppose they call him Halfsack now, I wonder whether he is the same guy who starred in Sons of anarchy?

by beshocked Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:04 am

I think the backrow selections of Scotland will bite them in the bottom.

Nonetheless good luck Scotland.

Please just don't injure Brits if he is brought on.

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:06 am

#Disclamer# If Scotland win a grand slam I am not going to cut my right arm off, it is merely a figure of speech!

by **Biltong** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:07 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:#Disclamer# If Scotland win a grand slam I am not going to cut my right arm off, it is merely a figure of speech!

Fence sitter. laughing

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:07 am

Thought I'd put that in after a reminder of the testicle incident - you know what peer pressure can do to a man!

by **Biltong** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:08 am

peer pressure or PURE pressure. Laugh

by **George Carlin** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:57 am

Cannot see the link between losing one of the Boys and your side winning a game of rugby, not even enough to make a good joke about it.

Why would you do that? I can't even commit to getting a tattoo.

I've never had a haircut that I've liked all that much, really.

by TJ1 Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:01 pm

An England fan George? Whistle

by tigertattie Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm

TJ wrote:An England fan George?

dude. that's a low blow!!!

by TJ1 Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm

tigertattie wrote:
TJ wrote:An England fan George?

dude. that's a low blow!!!

Sowwy "tugs forelock"

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm

This thread has descended into mindless gibberish already - it was 17 pages into the All Blacks one before we started talking baws! (Literally in this case!)

by OzT Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm

What's baws please?? Scotish???

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm

Balls, of the male anatomy kind!

by tigertattie Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:52 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:This thread has descended into mindless gibberish already - it was 17 pages into the All Blacks one before we started talking baws! (Literally in this case!)

technically you started it with the arm cutting off comment!

Seems to be that threads that fall into the gutter usually have you involved Mr Mod Run

by OzT Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm

Obvious, cheers!!

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm

tigertattie - Fair comment! Very Happy

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm

RDW, teuchters for post match pint? I believe FES, Tattie Scones and myself will be there.....

by tigertattie Thu 15 Nov 2012, 1:55 pm

I'd come along too but I'd instigate an attempt to get RDW to agree to chop off a nut if Scotland won the game laughing

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 1:57 pm

Woah woah woah - I said arm, not baw!!

Radge - as usual I have no idea what my plans are cause as usual there will be a group of us and I don't know what's happening after. I will however head along if all other options are used up! Very Happy

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 15 Nov 2012, 2:12 pm

All are welcome Tiger, PM me your details if you fancy coming along.

by Scot Abroad Thu 15 Nov 2012, 3:40 pm

Come on you lot lets get back to the rugby chat please.

Ok, who do you think will have the best moustache in the Scotland team? mo1

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 3:45 pm

Don't think he's doing it this year but Kelly Brown always has a spectacular mo at Movember.

He's one hell of a hairy guy!

by TJ1 Thu 15 Nov 2012, 3:49 pm

All Kellock was sporting a rather fetching number last week

by tigertattie Thu 15 Nov 2012, 4:12 pm

Is it just me or is really only the Scots and the ozzies that take part?

maybe the other nations just can't grow em?

by GunsGerms Thu 15 Nov 2012, 4:22 pm

Important for Ireland that Scotland lose.

by IanBru Thu 15 Nov 2012, 4:23 pm

I think there were a few sporting 'taches for the All Blacks - the most conspicuous was Mr Thomson’s, although it might have been because he had some considerable face-time on camera…

I found it quite surprising, as I assumed the wind resistance and itching distraction would have interfered with their perfect display of rugby skill. Perhaps they just like playing with us - the rugby equivalent of running the 100m sprint backwards?

by GunsGerms Thu 15 Nov 2012, 4:23 pm

tigertattie wrote:Is it just me or is really only the Scots and the ozzies that take part?

maybe the other nations just can't grow em?

Jamie Heaslip and cian Healy are participating.

by **RDW** Thu 15 Nov 2012, 4:24 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Important for Ireland that Scotland lose.

Woah - who is this guy trying to turn the conversation back towards rugby?? Very Happy

by GunsGerms Thu 15 Nov 2012, 4:26 pm

Wouldnt be surprised if Scotland win this though.

by Scot Abroad Thu 15 Nov 2012, 6:25 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Important for Ireland that Scotland lose.

Woah - who is this guy trying to turn the conversation back towards rugby??

Doesn't he know that's a bannable offense on this thread

by Cryptoyourisan Thu 15 Nov 2012, 6:55 pm

Why on earth do we have Murchie on the bench? He is, at best, a solid club player. I understand that he (just about) covers centre, wing and fullback but he is definitely not going to be a long-term contender for the Scottish fullback or centre shirts. Why we haven't gone for Brown or Dunbar on the bench is beyond me.

Also, Lawson dropped in favour of Hall and Ross "I thought you were meant to throw the ball towards the posts, not straight down the middle of the line-out" Ford continuing to start is a questionable choice. As is starting Brown at open-side for the time in five years, especially with Louw and Alberts in the Springbok back-row. Then again, we saw a similar story with Kellock when he was captain.

If Scotland end up with an impossible RWC group, as is likely at this stage, I really wouldn't be averse to seeing Robinson sacked. Otherwise he'll continue to set records for failures in Scottish rugby and we'll probably still have a mince team come 2016.

by reallybored Thu 15 Nov 2012, 7:05 pm

Don't really care about who South Africa have picked or who's missing, we can only play the team that turn up on Saturday.

Robinson has picked exactly the team I wanted, injuries considered. It seems like the obvious team in a must win match, don't really get all the criticism;

Ford - still comfortably our best hooker, obviously his throwing has hurt us over the last 6 months but he is contributing plenty around the park which often goes unnoticed. Are people genuinely serious about selecting Scott "penalty midget" Lawson ahead of Ross "can't hit a barn door but is a Lion" Ford?

Hamilton - two penalties, one of which was daft and the other slightly harsh imo, and a good amount of graft gets overlooked. His form for Gloucester has been impressive and definitely merits selection, plus with Murray at 3 it gives us a very handy scrummaging 5.

Strokosch, Brown, Denton - well obviously Brown has to play and Denton demonstrated what he can bring to the party against the All Blacks. Strokosch deserves to be in the team, not only because he's been in good form for Perpignan and played very well on tour, but because this is exactly the type of match where he'll be effective. Barclay is no where near his best, he hasn't dominated the breakdown like he used to for ages, plus there's been plenty of debate over his battle with Fusaro. Wouldn't have minded had Robinson gone for Barclay, he's rarely been poor for Scotland, but against the Saffas I'll take an in form tree chopper like Strokosch.

De Luca - didn't think he had a poor game against All Blacks, and his form for Edinburgh has been alright plus he did pretty well on the tour. Pretty sure he's the back-line defense leader as well, plus it gives you the continuity of the Edinburgh back-line (not sure if that's a good thing though).

And realistically who else would you pick right now? Dunbar is up-capped and hardly setting the heather alight at 13, Evan can barely hold on to the ball, Grove isn't in the squad and Ansbro has a broken neck.

Murchie - hmmm, not really sure about this one. Only explanation I can think of is the ability to cover 15 and move Hogg to 13.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Thu 15 Nov 2012, 7:06 pm

Cryptoyourisan wrote:Why on earth do we have Murchie on the bench? He is, at best, a solid club player. I understand that he (just about) covers centre, wing and fullback but he is definitely not going to be a long-term contender for the Scottish fullback or centre shirts. Why we haven't gone for Brown or Dunbar on the bench is beyond me.

Also, Lawson dropped in favour of Hall and Ross "I thought you were meant to throw the ball towards the posts, not straight down the middle of the line-out" Ford continuing to start is a questionable choice. As is starting Brown at open-side for the time in five years, especially with Louw and Alberts in the Springbok back-row. Then again, we saw a similar story with Kellock when he was captain.

If Scotland end up with an impossible RWC group, as is likely at this stage, I really wouldn't be averse to seeing Robinson sacked. Otherwise he'll continue to set records for failures in Scottish rugby and we'll probably still have a mince team come 2016.

+1

by Cryptoyourisan Thu 15 Nov 2012, 7:28 pm

reallybored wrote:Robinson has picked exactly the team I wanted, injuries considered. It seems like the obvious team in a must win match, don't really get all the criticism;

Ford - still comfortably our best hooker, obviously his throwing has hurt us over the last 6 months but he is contributing plenty around the park which often goes unnoticed. Are people genuinely serious about selecting Scott "penalty midget" Lawson ahead of Ross "can't hit a barn door but is a Lion" Ford?

And realistically who else would you pick right now? Dunbar is up-capped and hardly setting the heather alight at 13, Evan can barely hold on to the ball, Grove isn't in the squad and Ansbro has a broken neck.

Murchie - hmmm, not really sure about this one. Only explanation I can think of is the ability to cover 15 and move Hogg to 13.

I hate the term 'must-win' match. It implies that other matches are 'okay to lose'. I wouldn't be surprised if Scotland win ugly again but at some point Scotland will need somebody in a position of power to act on their belief that long-term change isn't going to come around by continuing with pragmatism, e.g. Hines at blindside, Lamont as a centre and bringing in foreigners of dubious quality.

It's difficult to say that Ford is our best hooker. Certainly, if MacArthur were fit you would be getting a lot more of us calling for Ford to be benched or dropped out of the match-day squad until he sorts his throwing, which was documented as a problem even before the 2009 Lions Tour. Using the 'Lion' tag is misleading too, seeing as he played in a test that was already won for about two seconds and was only there because Flannery was crocked. Had we started Hall or Lawson at international level more often, they may have ended up better players.

I would have Dunbar on the bench in front of Murchie, for sure. I would also have Alex Grove in the squad seeing as he's been playing pretty well in a Worcester team that are looking a lot more creative than they have in a good few years. I wouldn't even mind seeing Hogg at 13 and Brown at fullback. Anything to show that Robinson has at least one eye set on developing a team that will eventually play some good rugby on a regular basis. Not to kick off yet another de Luca rant but Robinson's reluctance to drop players who are prone to gaffs despite supposed stellar club form is really hurting the development of this team.

by reallybored Thu 15 Nov 2012, 9:33 pm

What did De Luca do wrong last week that's peed everyone off? I've never been his biggest fan but right now he is probably the best option we have and I didn't think he played particularly poorly against ABs.

Majestic, what you're saying about Ford's line-out throwing is nonsense as well, we'd only lost two line-outs in the first 4 games in the 6 Nations last season but then he had a mare against Italy and everyone suddenly thinks he's always been crap. Line-out success percentages compared to winner:

2009: Sco = 84% (Ire = 88%)
2010: Sco = 89% (Fra = 80%)
2011: Sco = 84% (Eng = 90%)
2012: Sco = 86% (Wal = 82%)

Obviously he has to shoulder a fair share of the responsibility for line-out errors but it's isn't solely his fault, and we always seem to over complicate the line-out when in promising positions. He may not be the most dynamic ball-carrier but he does his fair share of grunt work, has carried more in last 12 months and definitely improves our scrum. But sadly it's the Kenny Logan effect.

I would love to see MacArthur putting genuine pressure on him later in the season but Ford is a better player than Hall and Lawson, even with a couple mis-throws.

by Imperialbigdave Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:32 pm

reallybored wrote:

2009: Sco = 84% (Ire = 88%)
2010: Sco = 89% (Fra = 80%)
2011: Sco = 84% (Eng = 90%)
2012: Sco = 86% (Wal = 82%)

you forget that this is 606v2, where facts and figures arent welcome if they get in the way of player bashing.

by sensisball Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:03 am

For me the big selection error has to be the back row.

We managed one good turn over and Visser scored his second try from it, but generally the AB's won the collisions ridiculously easily and therefore generated easy, quick ball.
Carter is one of the best ten's ( if not the best) but even he usually only makes 2 to 3 line breaks a game against a good defence. However without the power of Nonu or Sonny Bill outside him he took it upon himself to try to break more often himself, and he did so almost at will.

This was down to three things: the quick ball his pack gave him, the often weak defence of Greg Laidlaw and the lack of a genuine openside to put pressure on him and cover for back line mistakes.

South Africa wont spin it as wide as often as the AB's but they will still like quick ball: Albetz and Vermulen will quite fancy running full tilt at wee Greg, and Jacko if he comes on, and Lambie isnt too shabby in the side step stakes.

They wont overpower us on the score board as easily as the AB's but if we give them an easy time in the contact they have the pack to grind out a 12 point lead, force us to play catch up, and with the errors that will produce we will be finished off fairly easily.

I suspect that Denton will have such a point to prove against his former country men that we will end up running away from support and giving away a few penalties. I would have started Stroks, Brown and Barclay and kept Denton for later when the defences have started to tire a bit and he might make more of an impact.

Also really worried that Traynor is still on the bench. We dodged a bullet not needing him last week but i fear we are really taunting the rugby gods by picking him again.
Can you imagine the horror that would occur at a scrum if he was called upon to play?

It even makes me wish for the return of Al Dickinson, at least for this match!

by cp10 Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm

Scotland team twitter
wrote:Injury change to team v SA. Strokosch out. Barclay in at 7, Brown switches to 6. Uncapped McInally on bench. Full story on website soon.

by IanBru Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm

Hooray, I guess...

Cue the "he only did that because injury forced his hand!!" brigade.

by **RDW** Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm

Obviously unfortunate for Strokosh but it does give the backrow a bit more balance.

Worried about McInally on the bench - he's lacking in physicallity at HK level never mind against the Boks!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm

IanBru wrote:Hooray, I guess...

Cue the "he only did that because injury forced his hand!!" brigade.

Well, he did, didn't he?

by **RDW** Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm

It's strange how these things work out in the end.

Might be making it up but did Hodge not only play the 2000 Calcutta cup game because Toonie was injured that week?

by Pat_Mustard Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:40 pm

Probably, but from what I can remember I think Toonie only played at 10 in the 1999 5 Nations because Chalmers was injured, he was originally meant to be starting at 13 or something and Tait wouldn't have been in the side!

Shame for Strokosch but it's now the back row I wanted

by bsando Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm

MacInally on Bench. I like his attacking prowess but in defence i think he can be a bit weak. I still think Johnnie Beattie is our best 8 after Denton, but he seems to have been banished from International rugby nope

I'm not bothered by Barclay at 7 but I would have liked Strockosh in the starting XV, he's been on good form. All in all, not too much of a problem really, hopefully won't effect the game tomorrow.

by Pat_Mustard Fri 16 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm

Actually I'm wrong, it was Hodge who started in the first game vs Wales, as shown in this lovely clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=bAmze8GWyDE

but went off injured, replaced by Tait with Townsend moving to 10.

Not that it has anything to do with this week's game but any excuse to put that clip up!

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